31/01/10 [DMFA #1084] - Asexual Abel

[Ry]

Which ones of you who are advocates of that doubt that Abel potentially isn't asexual actually want him to be of x orientation? We can't blame you for being fans, that is your choice, anyway. And we can't use it against your well presented arguments.

I've always thought that Abel was more asexual than anything else.  If I want him to be any orientation, I want him to be asexual- however, that doesn't mean I think he can't be sexual.  As has been pointed out, he has LOADS of issues.  If he was shown as capable of having healthy relationships (friendship counts and I mean at present not when he was 5) then I'd be more willing to believe there's no underlying problems.
And I've said this several times in this thread already.  Are you even reading the reasonings or are you so attached to him being asexual that you refuse to listen to well-presented arguments?

I have no attachment to Abel being sexual or romantic.  I don't really ship anyone in this comic, and I don't even consider him having a relationship with anyone to deny his (potential) asexuality any more than a lesbian falling in love with one man denies her homosexuality.  There is such a thing as demisexual- www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Demisexual -and most demisexuals I know consider themselves more asexual than not.

[Drayco84]

I still don't understand why the debate is still going on about this... (No, I'm being serious here. I truly and honestly don't get it...)

Abel is an introvert who's locked down his feelings and has spent the last near-400 years running from his problems. I mean, Come on? Grass growing? The only reason one would take that is if they're trying not to think about someone else. And for someone who's been there, take enough college classes and you won't have TIME to think about the things you need to face, regardless of wether  or not you need to sleep. (My evidence? The bad reaction to the paint spill.) Plus, the only reason he's ventured out of SAIA is because Fa'lina virtually forced him out. In essence, he's a 400-year old kid who feels like he needs to sort himself out before dragging someone else into his problems. (Also, that someone else would be an all-too-easy target for anyone and anything that wants to hurt HIM.)  So, to me, his response isn't surprising at all and Amber's just moving the plot forward. (Or stalling. My money's on stalling.)

I'm more interested in the following...

Regina's history with Dan
Edward's history with Abel
When Wildy will discover Jyrras's stockpile of weapons of massive destruction. (At that point, EVERYBODY RUN FOR THEIR LIVES!)
Abel hitting on Dan.
Dan returning the favor and hitting on Abel.
Alexsi getting fed up and hitting on BOTH of them. (Wait, you mean you thought I referring to the other kind of hitting?)
Dan attempting to use magic, round 2! (First rule: ALWAYS direct stuff AWAY from you.)
Dark Pegasus Round... Darn, I lost count...
WHAT THE FRIGGIN' HELL MAB IS REALLY UP TO!

[Ellian]

Not that I want to keep the debate going, in fact I would rather see it reach a conclusion that is acceptable for all involved parties, but still I can't help commenting on one thing:
Some of the recent posts here apparently suggested that Abel is pretty much just a messed up kid - an interpretation that I can't second. Because honestly, who can really live for almost 400 years doing nothing else than running from one's problems? I think no matter what, it is pretty unlikely that anybody, no matter how messed up their childhood might have been, did not have plenty of time to think and sort things out in more than one human lifetime.
Seriously, I doubt that anybody can run from their problems for so long. Either you end up facing them sooner or later - and 400 years is a very long time - or you adjust, so that they are not problems anymore, by definition.
Feel free to disagree if you really need to, though. But don't forget that we're talking about Abel from the regular DMFA storyline here, who is most likely a lot more mature than his younger self depicted in Abel's story, that you might still have in mind when questioning his sanity.

[Arcblade]

Seriously, I doubt that anybody can run from their problems for so long. Either you end up facing them sooner or later - and 400 years is a very long time - or you adjust, so that they are not problems anymore, by definition.
Feel free to disagree if you really need to, though. But don't forget that we're talking about Abel from the regular DMFA storyline here, who is most likely a lot more mature than his younger self depicted in Abel's story, that you might still have in mind when questioning his sanity.

There's a thing people tend to do when confronted with issues that need solving.  They make a little progress, admire it, stop, and call it good enough.  They don't actually fix everything that needs to be fixed.  For a race of people that can just sit in the dark for years if they feel like it, I'd think avoiding issues would actually be a skill learned early. 

All speculation, of course.  Cubi's personalities and styles of dealing with things may not precisely match human personalities and human styles of dealing with things. 

[Magic]

I'm rather curious as to what you consider "an actual opinion" if well-presented arguments alone don't cut it.   If they're only well-presented arguments from people who aren't interested in Abel, then your chances of getting one are fairly slim.

That said, I myself only debate Abel's orientation out of academic interest.  I like people and I like trying to predict why they do the things they do.  If Abel eventually figures out he's truly asexual, or gay, I will not be heartbroken. 

Definition: Opinion: your belief on the matter, not your logical argument.

I've always thought that Abel was more asexual than anything else.  If I want him to be any orientation, I want him to be asexual- however, that doesn't mean I think he can't be sexual.  As has been pointed out, he has LOADS of issues.  If he was shown as capable of having healthy relationships (friendship counts and I mean at present not when he was 5) then I'd be more willing to believe there's no underlying problems.

And I've said this several times in this thread already. Are you even reading the reasonings or are you so attached to him being asexual that you refuse to listen to well-presented arguments?

Of course I read. I was looking for beliefs, not arguments.

I'm sorry if this hit a nerve, but you had no reason to take it personally. You were given the chance to not reply to the question. I asked politely with no strings attached and presented an honorable promise that I will not judge you, and I'm serious about it.

[Arcblade]

I'm rather curious as to what you consider "an actual opinion" if well-presented arguments alone don't cut it.   If they're only well-presented arguments from people who aren't interested in Abel, then your chances of getting one are fairly slim.

That said, I myself only debate Abel's orientation out of academic interest.  I like people and I like trying to predict why they do the things they do.  If Abel eventually figures out he's truly asexual, or gay, I will not be heartbroken.  

Definition: Opinion: your belief on the matter, not your logical argument.

That tends to come down to simple statements, though, doesn't it?  Like, "I think Abel is actually asexual, and that's all there is to it."  Or am I misunderstanding?  If not, I'd think that'd get old rather fast.  It's all very well to have an opinion, but unless you explain it (usually via logical argument), it just becomes a poll instead of a discussion.  I could be wrong, of course. 

[Arapaima]

Sexuality in general is a horrifyingly complex topic as it stands. I doubt there are very many here who could really discuss the concepts at hand with much authority (by authority I mean academic or professional experience with the subject). Most readers here have probably had anywhere from a year or so to decades to explore and come to terms with their own sexuality; Abel has had a few centuries. The effect this amount of time would have in this case is unknown and unknowable to anyone. In any case I see it as a situation much like my own experiences, I assume it's similar for others, but not necessarily. I don't consciously decide what features are attractive, and which ones are repulsive; it's built in through the years. I myself find it strange and some circles find it insulting if you suggest that their sexuality is a choice they made. Ask someone when they decided that they were going to be be hetero/homo/a/etc.sexual and see the response you get. I don't see the situation so much as Abel deciding to be asexual as discovering he's asexual.

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

Some people seem rather insistent that he -can't- be asexual. Some do concede he could be, but most seem to want to throw doubt on it because... why?

Same reason people seem to think there's no such thing as being bi....

Which I find those people who do, slightly insulting; because I'm Bi and proud of it!! 

I'm bi too but I'm not proud of it--I didn't work at it.  I'm not ashamed of it, but I save pride for something I put effort into.

I'm proud of it because its just one of the many things that make me who I am, not that I work at it either. It's just who I am.  I CAN say I'm very proud to be in school heading toward my dream career!!

[Baal Hadad]

Some people seem rather insistent that he -can't- be asexual. Some do concede he could be, but most seem to want to throw doubt on it because... why?

Same reason people seem to think there's no such thing as being bi....

Which I find those people who do, slightly insulting; because I'm Bi and proud of it!! 

I'm bi too but I'm not proud of it--I didn't work at it.  I'm not ashamed of it, but I save pride for something I put effort into.

I'm proud of it because its just one of the many things that make me who I am, not that I work at it either. It's just who I am.  I CAN say I'm very proud to be in school heading toward my dream career!!

Now, that's something I can't boast about, though I wish I could....

Back on-topic: I don't "want" Abel to be anything.  He answered the question, and what else was anyone really expecting?  He's not interested in a relationship, and it's pretty clear why.  I'm not shipping him with anyone, but neither am I going to hate Amber if he ever does get involved with someone, female or male.

[Magic]

That tends to come down to simple statements, though, doesn't it?  Like, "I think Abel is actually asexual, and that's all there is to it."  Or am I misunderstanding?  If not, I'd think that'd get old rather fast.  It's all very well to have an opinion, but unless you explain it (usually via logical argument), it just becomes a poll instead of a discussion.  I could be wrong, of course. 

It is a question, one that people can choose to decline answering.

I am not concerned about the popularity of my question. I honestly wish to know.

If I cannot ask a simple question with a simple and concise reply, met instead with straw man replies about my neutral and as far as I can see, polite, position in this thread then you need only request of me to rescind my question in private message without inciting negative response in the forum as a reply. I can then edit the post and erase it, if it so incites such a reaction.

You need but ask and I will deliver immediately without incident. I again apologize wholeheartedly if it has angered anyone. Thank you in advance for understanding, and good day.

[Turnsky]

all this talk about the sexual orientation/preference of a fictional character.... i shouldn't be surprised, after all.. i mean this IS the Internet...

but...



Ye Gods..

[Mao]

Ok, I'm seeing some tension here that isn't really necessary.

All Magic has asked, is for people to post, without reasoning, what they believe  (or desire) Abel's sexuality to be.  Yes, this is a poll of sorts.  If you hadn't noticed though, Magic did not start this thread so he can't attach a poll to it.  Etiquette stops him from creating another thread for this as it would simply clutter up the forum.  The discussion on the matter is here, best to keep it here.  Rather then complain about his lack of desire to know your reasoning, either choose to answer the question or just ignore his request.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I honestly don't know, myself. I'd like for Abel to end up happy, in the same way I'd like everyone to end up happy. On the other hand, people need to grow...

As for his sexuality? Meh. Irrelevant, other than insofar as it affects the comic strip. And that, I'll leave to Amber.


... Sorry for being more verbose than requested.

[Scarydragon]

I totally prefer that Abel be asexual (or demisexual as Ry suggested), but that may be out of sheer spite for everyone who wants him to be otherwise. (I enjoy being spiteful, I think I might have a problem. )

Also, I think it's about time the pretty-boy didn't turn out to be gay, straight or otherwise. (Once again, if only to erk the fans. The fans with their 'shipping', and their torrid, filthy fan-fics. )

... Sorry for being more verbose than requested.

I have this feeling that you could never be not verbose. Which is totally awesome. I know I enjoy a good verbosity now and then.

[Grey Wolf]

To answer Magic's question: I'm not sure Abel is asexual (though if he is, more power to him), and I sorta want him to be bisexual.

To elaborate: I agree with the fact Abel is a recluse. In fact, I would have been surprised if he had 'experimented' at SAIA, which some seem to had thought he had. Even he seems a tad unsure of his asexuality in the latest comic.
Also, I'm asexual, as far as I know... some people think I'm in denial of being straight (yes, you read that right). Anyway, I feel a little sad, because it will be that much harder to find a mate, seeing as mates generally wish to... mate. So maybe I just want Abel to find a life partner so he can be happy.
And he struck me as bisexual, though I'm not sure why. It's possible I just want him to be with Jyrras and i want future Abel-spawn. I will have my cake, and I will eat it too!

[Sunblink]

I'd like for Abel to end up happy, in the same way I'd like everyone to end up happy. On the other hand, people need to grow...

As for his sexuality? Meh. Irrelevant, other than insofar as it affects the comic strip. And that, I'll leave to Amber.

Agreed with this, although I would honestly prefer he be bisexual. Keep in mind that's a fangirl speaking. But the way everyone's making such a big deal over this makes me feel embarrassed to feel that way. Ugh.

I'm defecting to Team Asexual just out of spite.

[Scarydragon]

I'm defecting to Team Asexual just out of spite.

Hooray for spite!

[Arcblade]

It is a question, one that people can choose to decline answering.

All Magic has asked, is for people to post, without reasoning, what they believe  (or desire) Abel's sexuality to be.  Yes, this is a poll of sorts.  If you hadn't noticed though, Magic did not start this thread so he can't attach a poll to it.  Etiquette stops him from creating another thread for this as it would simply clutter up the forum.  The discussion on the matter is here, best to keep it here.  Rather then complain about his lack of desire to know your reasoning, either choose to answer the question or just ignore his request.

Ah, I see.  I wasn't complaining, actually.  I just didn't understand what he was asking, and what the reasoning behind it was.  Sorry about that.  I don't mean to irritate you or Magic. 

Answering the question at hand:  Had I my choice, I suppose I'd have Abel be asexual for now, eventually turning bi when his problems are resolved. 

[joshofspam]

I'd like for Abel to end up happy, in the same way I'd like everyone to end up happy. On the other hand, people need to grow...

As for his sexuality? Meh. Irrelevant, other than insofar as it affects the comic strip. And that, I'll leave to Amber.

Agreed with this, although I would honestly prefer he be bisexual. Keep in mind that's a fangirl speaking. But the way everyone's making such a big deal over this makes me feel embarrassed to feel that way. Ugh.

I'm defecting to Team Asexual just out of spite.

Maybe that's for the best. Abel sexuality doesn't play as much of a factor now because of this.

In a way I actually respect Abel's character because of this.

After all he has his awkward friends, gets to make smart sly comments now and again, and he gets in more trouble with Dan then he would probably see as reasonable. Even though Fa'lina had to out reason him to get him to get out of the Academy in the first place

Why should he have to complicate things by doing something he just isn't interested in and requires more commitment then he is ready for?

In a way I kind of see Abel as the older brother trying to keep his younger brother "Dan" out of harm way and every once and a while they have a toss and tumble because of an argument.

[Keleth]

As for his sexuality? Meh. Irrelevant, other than insofar as it affects the comic strip. And that, I'll leave to Amber.

Woo, Glad to see there is people out there who want to leave Amber's characters, belonging to Amber.

So many fans with giant giant shipping companies. Shipping such terrible things.

I'm defecting to Team Asexual just out of spite.

Wooo! Spite!

[Shachza]

Wooo! Spite!

I wonder if there are cubi that can feed off of that.  I shudder to think of the amount of evil that would come out of a clan who pride themselves on being spiteful.

[A. Lurker]

Wooo! Spite!

I wonder if there are cubi that can feed off of that.  I shudder to think of the amount of evil that would come out of a clan who pride themselves on being spiteful.

You know, I'm still a bit fuzzy on just how that whole 'feeding on emotions' thing is really supposed to work. (I don't think we've ever seen it actually happen 'on stage' in the comic.) The most obvious interpretation would actually seem to be the literal one -- as a cubi feeds, the 'victim' feels the emotion in question less and less until it's gone (in the extreme case, anyway). If true, that should actually make the clans with affinities for 'negative' emotions more popular than those who feed on 'positive' ones...as long as there's enough 'food' for them to go around naturally that they don't have to stir things up on purpose, anyway.

[Tapewolf]

You know, I'm still a bit fuzzy on just how that whole 'feeding on emotions' thing is really supposed to work. (I don't think we've ever seen it actually happen 'on stage' in the comic.)

It's passive.  Dan has been feeding on emotions from the inn patrons for quite a while, which is why he doesn't get hungry very much.

As for the mechanics of feeding on it, AFAIK it's more like they're mopping up surplus energy that would otherwise be wasted.  Unless things have changed recently design-wise, it is possible for a 'Cubi to feed off their own emotions.
There was an example of a walled-up 'Cubi who survives for hundreds of years off their own rage and hatred, I'm not sure that is strictly compatible with a model where they actively reduce the emotion in the subject.

Also, it would kind of ruin the whole clown-cubi Abel mentioned, if they sucked the joy out of the children instead of provoking it 

[Valynth]

all this talk about the sexual orientation/preference of a fictional character.... i shouldn't be surprised, after all.. i mean this IS the Internet...

but...



Ye Gods..

I think that'll only provoke the response of "He's well drawn!"


Still, I agree this is getting creepy on all fronts.

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

I'm more interested in the following...

Regina's history with Dan
Edward's history with Abel
When Wildy will discover Jyrras's stockpile of weapons of massive destruction. (At that point, EVERYBODY RUN FOR THEIR LIVES!)
Abel hitting on Dan.
Dan returning the favor and hitting on Abel.
Alexsi getting fed up and hitting on BOTH of them. (Wait, you mean you thought I referring to the other kind of hitting?)
Dan attempting to use magic, round 2! (First rule: ALWAYS direct stuff AWAY from you.)
Dark Pegasus Round... Darn, I lost count...
WHAT THE FRIGGIN' HELL MAB IS REALLY UP TO!

I quite agree with all of the above!  I too am very curious about all this. Of course I'd make sure my rear was saved in advance if Wildy ever did get a hold of Jyrras' weapons, like pledge my allegiance to her or something.......*shrugs*

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Also, it would kind of ruin the whole clown-cubi Abel mentioned, if they sucked the joy out of the children instead of provoking it 

... the clown in Spawn leaps into mind...

[Ry]

Also, it would kind of ruin the whole clown-cubi Abel mentioned, if they sucked the joy out of the children instead of provoking it 

... the clown in Spawn leaps into mind...

Since when do clowns inspire joy in children, anyways?  I thought they inspired fear. 

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

Also, it would kind of ruin the whole clown-cubi Abel mentioned, if they sucked the joy out of the children instead of provoking it 

... the clown in Spawn leaps into mind...

Since when do clowns inspire joy in children, anyways?  I thought they inspired fear. 

I agree, haven't any of you seen IT?!

[Janus Whitefurr]

Since when do clowns inspire joy in children, anyways?  I thought they inspired fear. 

I agree, haven't any of you seen IT?!

We all float down here!

You'll float too!

[Tapewolf]

I agree, haven't any of you seen IT?!

Yes.  Never heard of 'spawn' though.

For that (Pennywise) and various other reasons, clowns aren't an example I'd normally choose.  I only invoked it because that's what Abel was citing in strip 524.

At the end of the day the point is that subtractive emotion-feeding would be counterproductive for the examples he's giving.
If you prefer, the succubus example - if she feeds on passion or lust subtractively it's going to be a big turn-off for her victim and the whole seduction bit fails miserably...