[2 Comics] Nonchalant Paran0ia and Puppies in Purgatory pages 11-12

[WhiteFox]

Guys... I'm trying to have a conversation here. Do you mind?

You're not helping.

[Mao]

WhiteFox, rather than trying to tell others to butt out of a conversation in a public place, why don't you take it to PM's if you don't want others to join in, hmm?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

GL: OMG!!! You think I'm a talented artist and writer. Page views would indicate that there are at least 17 readers 3 of which I'm guessing are Mods. In all seriousness I have never claimed to be a talented artist or writer so  I thank you for the backhanded compliment or whatever you were trying to imply.

3? There's 7 mods, last time I counted. Which four of them are you accusing of not doing their job, just out of interest?

[Keleth]

My money is totally on Darkmoon.

He's probably out boozing it up on Clockwork Mansion company hours too.

[VAE]

Wait, are the mods required to read all the new posts? Because in other places i know, they generally come in if summoned and otherwise behave as  normal members (AKA the Superman method)

[Turnsky]

Wait, are the mods required to read all the new posts? Because in other places i know, they generally come in if summoned and otherwise behave as  normal members (AKA the Superman method)

naw, they just wear the tights for fun.

[Mao]

Last I checked, they weren't required to do anything.   This is their play house.  We're all just visitors.  However they all seem to be pretty gracious hosts and have taken care to make sure that all threads get the attention that they deserve.  I know for a fact that at llearch reads all but three threads.  He's quite epic like that.

[Keleth]

All. . . threads but . . 3?

Dear god, the man is a machine.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

No, the man is a box.

[WhiteFox]

No, the man is a box.

A world heavy-weight boxing champion, no less.

[GabrielsThoughts]

Nonchalant Paran0ia


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/filler.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott1.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott2-1.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott3-1.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott4-1.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott5-1.jpg


Puppies in purgatory: the directors cut (2003) colored... note the dialog on page five was altered, page four has the edited dialog that appeared in NIO, sniffing glue was the unedited version, I also have the scans for the pencil versions of all present pages. I also added "meanwhiles" and "elsewheres" among other little cues to let the reader know time had passed.


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip1.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip2.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip3.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip4.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip5.jpg

[WhiteFox]

Is Nonchalant Paran0ia new material, or also a "Directors Cut?"

[GabrielsThoughts]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott6-1.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott7-1.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott8-1.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott9-1.jpg





http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip6.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip7.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip8.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip9.jpg


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip10.jpg

Pages 9 and 10 of puppies in purgatory have been edited writing wise.

I have been drawing long form comics independently since 2001.

@ whitefox  Writing wise .... yes, and the art is fairly current as well. Although, being a previously on... it's more or less traced over  2003 art for the first 8 pages. I can share the old 2003 cover art if your interested in comparison. like all my comics it's a mish-mash of different years and stories. for instance the first seven pages of fools night out is more current than the rest of it.

[WhiteFox]

Well, there's not much point to making constructive comments unless the material is recent. So, I'll refrain from comment.

Also, the mish-mash thing makes it very hard to follow these comics.

[GabrielsThoughts]

writing, line art, and panel arrangement, of nonchalant paranoia is as recent as October of 2009... but I really like the organic look of the frames and I was going back to a more primitive look to the artwork.

My main interest is improving my coloring skills... light shadow rim lights, reflections, and mood setting. for nonchalant paranoia I'm also going to be working on my pencil and inking skills... but that also causes problems for coloring so I'm trying to figure out a way to balance them so that it looks good as a sketch, ink, or colored. I do know how to flat color in illustrator photoshop and soap. what I'm trying to figure out is how to make it look good like water color or oils. 

I have noticed that blue ink is annoying and gritty when converted and I noticed a lot of holes in my earlier artwork that I have had to compensate for. 

[GabrielsThoughts]

Nonchalant Paran0ia



http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott11.jpg



http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/tsjott12.jpg


Puppies in Purgatory



http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip11.jpg




http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/GabrielsThoughts/pip12.jpg

[WhiteFox]

My main interest is improving my coloring skills... light shadow rim lights, reflections, and mood setting. for nonchalant paranoia I'm also going to be working on my pencil and inking skills... but that also causes problems for coloring so I'm trying to figure out a way to balance them so that it looks good as a sketch, ink, or colored. I do know how to flat color in illustrator photoshop and soap. what I'm trying to figure out is how to make it look good like water color or oils. 

My personal philosophy is to grab a brush and start putting shadows where ever it looks like there should be shadows.

PSG7 has a really good tutorial on all kinds of stuff. On top of all the light/shadow topics, check out the Flatten and Simplify.

Actually, the whole thing is full of good stuff.

I have noticed that blue ink is annoying and gritty when converted and I noticed a lot of holes in my earlier artwork that I have had to compensate for. 

I use a 2H pencil, drawing lightly, and india ink. The 2H erases pretty cleanly.

[Turnsky]

My main interest is improving my coloring skills... light shadow rim lights, reflections, and mood setting. for nonchalant paranoia I'm also going to be working on my pencil and inking skills... but that also causes problems for coloring so I'm trying to figure out a way to balance them so that it looks good as a sketch, ink, or colored. I do know how to flat color in illustrator photoshop and soap. what I'm trying to figure out is how to make it look good like water color or oils. 

My personal philosophy is to grab a brush and start putting shadows where ever it looks like there should be shadows.

PSG7 has a really good tutorial on all kinds of stuff. On top of all the light/shadow topics, check out the Flatten and Simplify.

Actually, the whole thing is full of good stuff.

I have noticed that blue ink is annoying and gritty when converted and I noticed a lot of holes in my earlier artwork that I have had to compensate for. 

I use a 2H pencil, drawing lightly, and india ink. The 2H erases pretty cleanly.

General advice?
First: You can get photo blue and red pencils, don't show up in scanners, pain in the butt to erase if you make a mistake, but overall saves you a lot of elbow grease on finished work.

Second: I won't go into the nitty-gritty of inks and such, but tools an artist does not make. Sure you could have your technical pens, your vast pots of india ink and such... and yet still be beaten by the professional artist wielding nothing more than a 2 dollar gel-ink pen.
My advice? grab some archival pigment ink pens like Pigma microns, and use them to further refine one's ability to draw smoothly and consistently before you bother yourself with getting the more in-depth stuff.

But stay the hell away from brush pens, they're evil incarnate.

[GabrielsThoughts]

yes, how fortunate for you you can claim superiority of a black line. Like I said before, I've been drawing long form comics since 2001. I even know what pens I used. I've used everything from Intyo technical pens, to sharpies, to liquid expressions, and my personal favorite uniball. Puppies in purgatory was colored in liquid expressions  red ink, and Nonchalant Paranoia was colored with a blue uniball. It goes without saying that I used adobe illustrator to convert the ink into digital format and then pasted it over the colored image, however when I originally posted the image to the internet I  converted the earlier line art to monochrome. I initially figured out about the holes in my line art in 2007, I had corrected for it in later works, but as I mentioned before the opening of nonchalant paranoia is a trace over of an earlier work made in 2003. I updated facial features and style to match my most current line  art the writing is completely different from the original. For example the cyborg alien girl was ran over by a car, the cat girl at the party was actually the ghost of Bade's sister  ... my sense of humor has since changed. I don't find horror movie blood and gore as humorous as I once did. Plus the art really sucked, look at the scale of the parking meters and the mendicant  backgrounds to see what I mean.


I'm actually surprised that Turnskey is such an elitist @$$4073, especially considering I discovered the Foxfire Chronicles back when it was pure suck. In fact, I would have never heard of him or Exterminatus Now if it weren't for the promotional comicgeneisis/keenspace print comic a few years back trying to get people to sign up. It goes without saying that a line produced with a technical pen looks stronger than one produced with a ball point pen. What I don't like about sharpies is that one has to be precision oriented and quick or the  ink bleeds, I think sharpies really look their best when they're almost dry, but it seems like such a waste not to use them until they're completely destroyed. Then again, the quality of a comic, or a book, or a tv series, Movie, newspaper, blog, or website has never been judged on artwork or storytelling alone. Luck and marketing has something to do with it also. even the bible says time and chance happening to them all. 


and @ white fox thank you for the link(s)!

[Sunblink]

yes, how fortunate for you you can claim superiority of a black line.

I'm actually surprised that Turnskey is such an elitist @$$4073, especially considering I discovered the Foxfire Chronicles back when it was pure suck. In fact, I would have never heard of him or Exterminatus Now if it weren't for the promotional comicgeneisis/keenspace print comic a few years back trying to get people to sign up.

I don't know why people bother giving you advice.

[WhiteFox]

I don't know why people bother giving you advice.

Because he's asking for it, and he needs it.

Anytime I've given him a piece of advice, he's taken it remarkably well.

[Turnsky]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/gelink.jpg

now, the one on the left is just the straight up scan, the other is scanned in using the scanner's bitmap channels to remove the blue lines and make the black stand out.

no editing whatsoever.

Tools maketh not the man, but rather the man maketh the tools.

as for the pen? $2.50 australian.

[WhiteFox]

Tools maketh not the man, but rather the man maketh the tools.

Yes. We know. We get it already. It's not the tools, it's how you use them.

Thank you for stating the blindingly obvious as condescendingly as possible. May we get back to more productive topics of discussion now?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

WhiteFox, ease down.

I think both you and GabrielsThoughts are reading far more into Turnsky's comments than is there. He's been polite. He's been straightforward. And the response from both of you is to jump down his throat.

He stated:

Second: I won't go into the nitty-gritty of inks and such, but tools an artist does not make. Sure you could have your technical pens, your vast pots of india ink and such... and yet still be beaten by the professional artist wielding nothing more than a 2 dollar gel-ink pen.
My advice? grab some archival pigment ink pens like Pigma microns, and use them to further refine one's ability to draw smoothly and consistently before you bother yourself with getting the more in-depth stuff.

To which GabrielsThoughts responded entirely out of the blue, abusively, and, quite frankly, not what I consider to be acceptable.

Turnsky has attempted to clarify his point, politely and without abuse, and you're now jumping down his throat for that.


How would you have preferred him to respond? With more abuse, thereby dragging the whole thread into the Abandoned Mine? I don't think any of you want that. I know I don't.



Chill, please. Both of you.

[Damaris]

This thread annoys me.

I'm talking it over with the mods, while we decide what to do with you.

In the meantime

[Darkmoon]

I was summoned. Egos were bruised, people complained, and I was summoned. For some of you, this was a very bad thing, because I was thus forced to read this goddamned thread, and having just suffered through the grating stupidity of it, I am now fully versed and ready to beat the shit out of some of the people involved.

GabrielsThoughts:

This forum for is for criticism. As people all over this thread have commented, you need help with your pathetic little comics. I read them. They blow. The comments people gave you were an attempt (a final one, as plainly they've tried before and you ignored them) to get through to you some useful ideas on what you could do to improve.

Your response? "It's my style." I read that over and over again, both from you and the people commenting towards you.

You know what, great. If that's what you're trying for, and you're happy with it, and you don't want to change it, then be my guest. Keep making shitty little comics that no one except WhiteFox (and me, since I was forced to act in this thread) will ever read, and even WhiteFox, the only guy that seems even remotely on your side at all through this, says he hates the comic.

Here's the deal, though. Make it all you want, but stop posting it here. Remember where I said this forum was for criticism? Yeah, that's the part you aren't getting. It's not your personal posting board to act as an archive of your comic. If you wanted a forum for your comics, you could have asked the moderators, as others have done, as we could have set you up a subsection in the Halfmoon Theather. That's what that section was designed for.

Of course, even then, it would just be for discussion about your comic. You'd still have to use a site, and not post the actual comics here.

Also, at this point, I doubt you have any fans among the admins and I seriously doubt they would be willing to give you help in the matter.

Expanding this out further, what I see, from people directed at you, is that you are a self-centered little prick. Normally I'd be okay with this. I'm a prick. Mao is a prick. Bill and Zina too (and Zina doesn't even have one). The key is that you don't know when not to be a prick. It's all the time. I've noticed it in the past, but since no one else (among the mods) said anything, I simply ignored it. It's my defense on this place when I see someone that irritates me.

Plainly, though, it's not just me, so I feel justified in telling you to calm the fuck down and to learn to post like a mature adult (as opposed to the entitled little seven year old I expect you likely are).

Whitefox:

From what I've seen you're honestly trying to have a real conversation here, and I would normally applaud that. Cutting through the muck and the flame wars is commendable, but only when it's done in such a way so as to actually refocus the conversation and add new material. What's happening here is that you're either simply saying "I'm trying to have a conversation" or "you're not helping".

We know both of these things, and, in response: it's because trying to talk to GT is like trying to talk to a brick wall. A retarded, retarded brick wall.

What I would suggest is to try and find a new thread to participate in, one where honest critique is happening and where the artist is actually listening. In the future, if you see a thread that pisses you off, where you think the artist is being unfairly treated, report it to the mods. If we don't do something (the rules state we should), then we must not have felt the matter warranted action. In that case, ignore the thread. Don't make matters worse.

Turnsky:

I haven't paid much attention to you in the past. This isn't a bad thing. I never really noticed you much before, so obviously you were doing something right.

Having now read this thread, I have to say: I like your style. Good work.

Also, in response to something you said, which became a major point of contenting, having good tools does not make you a good artist. I know, first hand, that just because you can have great tools (which I do), you can still be a shitty artist (which I am). All the fantastic tools in the world will not save GT's artwork.

Now everyone shut the fuck up and let me go back to being an uncaring douchebag.