Worst clichés ever?

[Janus Whitefurr]

Largest cliche of all: Good always wins, even if evil dominates for 90% of the time! Only exception of this rule is J.R.R.Martins' books, where good is dragged in the mud, raped and then killed mercilessly! Good book 

I don't care if George is subverting all our expectations by being gritty and realistic, but killing off all the likable protagonists is bad writing. And it happens so often you eventually can't care about anyone because you know if they've a smidgen of goodness, they're going to die brutally and horribly. I think this was argued in the regretful books thread somewhere, too... c'est la vie.

In regards to cliches, sometimes it's possible to shut your brain off and enjoy a movie or book with them. Other times they're just too in your face and blatantly obvious to make whatever you're looking at enjoyable. I can't think of any particular cliches at the moment that annoy me more than others... oh, wait. It usually goes in hand with book/game to movie conversions - the awfully inserted romance subplot, where there never was one.

[GabrielsThoughts]

The lack of seatbelts in star trek can be explained away easily. If you crash while traveling at the speed of light do you honestly think a strap of cloth/leather/mylar is going to save you from being atomized?

In the future no one is overweight, despite the fact that all anyone does anymore is stand around  pushing buttons, sit around pushing buttons, hang around their quarters listening to music, playing poker friends, etc. 

and the one I find most bizarely ethnocentric... An advanced race of aliens wants Earth, it's resources, or whatever for themselves. Yet, somehow,  they aren't advanced enough to match wits with humans or even the planet's single celled  microorganisms

[King Of Hearts]

-It was Earth all along
-They were actually humans
-AI becomes self aware... and chooses to become eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.

[superluser]

The lack of seatbelts in star trek can be explained away easily. If you crash while traveling at the speed of light do you honestly think a strap of cloth/leather/mylar is going to save you from being atomized?

They have (physically impossible) inertial dampers for that.  And perhaps belts would keep them from falling out of their chairs.

[Kipiru]

The lack of seatbelts in star trek can be explained away easily. If you crash while traveling at the speed of light do you honestly think a strap of cloth/leather/mylar is going to save you from being atomized?

They have (physically impossible) inertial dampers for that.  And perhaps belts would keep them from falling out of their chairs.

Belts will most likely behead them, rather then keep them in their seats!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

   Belts will most likely behead them, rather then keep them in their seats!

... win-win?

[Kipiru]

Fire all phasers at the Box/Boss! Star Trek forever!

[Gareeku]

Any cliché can irritate me if I hear it too many times over.
The whole, dystopian future can get on my nerves as well. As do a lot of stories where a small band revolts against a big totalitarian government/occuping force. What gets me is that in real life, a revolution like this is full the complexity, moral ambiguity, diverse opinion etc. Wheras with this cliché in most stories, it becomes a pithy tale of a group overcoming the odds and having escapist adventures in defeating cardboard and utterly undeveloped villian(s) in a universe that has as much depth as a stage backdrop.

...*scraps a potential story idea as a result* Thanks

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

...*scraps a potential story idea as a result* Thanks

What, because your story has cardboard villains, or because it's dystopian future? The latter _can_ be done well - take Damnation Alley, by Roger Zelazny, for example. Not the movie, but the book.

... if it's the former, then it probably should be scrapped. Unless you're doing it for the sake of parody, in which case you can get away with murder... ;-]

[thegayhare]

I'm writing a story with cardboard villians... Llearch is one of them

[Auragonian]

I'm writing a story with cardboard villians... Llearch is one of them

Heh,That's funny,
Okay, what about :
A hero's sibling being a bad guy
All males with lightning powers look like they out their finger in an electrical socket one too many times have incredible bad luck and are complete morons 99% of the time.
A fire elemental who's totally Bad ass And have at least 3 girls fight over him.
A water elemental Whose a wiseguy.
An Earth elemental whose a treehugger when male and a total tank when female and pissed off
The hero gets the girl and ends up losing a body part in the process
Something totally cute said to be the key to saving the world be useless until a life threatening emergency.
A wind elemental whose free spirited
The heroes get enchanted and ancient weaponry
The mechanic for the heroes is usually a girl with glasses or goggles and has robots at her disposal
the hero has a unique ability that seems useless, like standing on the ceiling or something, until the final battle
And that's all I can think of at the moment.

[thegayhare]

I wonder if one of the agents from the recent hellboy animated movie would count for that last one.

The BPRD agent could detect metal.  It never realy saved the day but it was a aperently useless power that came in handy at odd moments. (finding a secret door, telling everyone to get out of the room cause alot of metal was headed right for them)

[Sofox]

Any cliché can irritate me if I hear it too many times over.
The whole, dystopian future can get on my nerves as well. As do a lot of stories where a small band revolts against a big totalitarian government/occuping force. What gets me is that in real life, a revolution like this is full the complexity, moral ambiguity, diverse opinion etc. Wheras with this cliché in most stories, it becomes a pithy tale of a group overcoming the odds and having escapist adventures in defeating cardboard and utterly undeveloped villian(s) in a universe that has as much depth as a stage backdrop.

...*scraps a potential story idea as a result* Thanks

Awww, c'mon, don't be that way. Just cause I made a spastic comment doesn't mean you have to to take it defensivly.
If you want my advice, read up on real oppressive governments and regimes, especially what it's like to live in one of them. If you think about it, one of the greatest dystopian future stories of all time is 1984, and George Orwell based a lot of it on first hand seeing the actions of the British Government right after the Second World War. (for instance, the way rationing continued after the war because it was believed to be good for the country).

[Janus Whitefurr]

A fire elemental who's totally Bad ass And have at least 3 girls fight over him.
A water elemental Whose a wiseguy.
An Earth elemental whose a treehugger when male and a total tank when female and pissed off
A wind elemental whose free spirited

So gleefully subverted.

[Jairus]

A fire elemental who's totally Bad ass And have at least 3 girls fight over him.
A water elemental Whose a wiseguy.
An Earth elemental whose a treehugger when male and a total tank when female and pissed off
A wind elemental whose free spirited

So gleefully subverted.

Agreed. For me, half the fun of writing is either justifying or subverting the common tropes of the universe. As for least liked cliche... I guess the idea that there is good magic and bad magic kind of bugs me. In my settings, magic is a truly neutral force, and even spells are neutral. What matters is how magic is wielded. That, and you guys have listed a bunch already.

Incidentally, part of the reason I liked Signum from Nanoha A's is because she was a fire elemental who had a cool and calm head under basically every situation, and never once to my memories got hot-headed like most fire elementals.

Oh, and "technology/science = bad" and "old ways = good." Eurgh. I hate that trope, especially when the good guys are using the EXACT SAME TECHNOLOGY to fight the bad guys. So, "technology is bad, unless the good guys are using it?" That's like saying that "war is bad, unless we're doing it."

[Janus Whitefurr]

Incidentally, part of the reason I liked Signum from Nanoha A's is because she was a fire elemental who had a cool and calm head under basically every situation, and never once to my memories got hot-headed like most fire elementals.

Unlike, say, Etna Agito.

[Alondro]

Whenever anyone says, "I've got a bad feeling about this."

MOST... OVERUSED... LINE.... EVAR!!!!

Unless it's being spoken by Han Solo.

He was allowed as one of the first.

But now it's in every crappy sci-fi and horror flick made.  And it pops up frequently in cartoons of all types.

Get some new writers!  At least TRY to make it sound different!

How about:  My sensation of the situation presents itself with a definite air of dismal predication.   

[Janus Whitefurr]

Obfuscating Stupidity done badly (I'm looking at you, Vash the Stampede).

Yes, I understand that a character needs to conceal their true skills or perhaps be aloof and/or undercover, therefore necessitating they not show just how much of a complete badass they are. However, there is a line between obfuscating it neatly, and coming off like one lacks a brain, is a complete twit, and the most annoying, idiotic douche on the entire planet.

The Trigun anime has perhaps tainted me in this regard as Vash's idiot routine makes him..AAAaAAAAaargh.

[Myxini]

Oh, and "technology/science = bad" and "old ways = good." Eurgh. I hate that trope, especially when the good guys are using the EXACT SAME TECHNOLOGY to fight the bad guys. So, "technology is bad, unless the good guys are using it?" That's like saying that "war is bad, unless we're doing it."

Have you ever seen Bakshi's Wizards?  the ending is a wonderful bit of subversion, in a movie that seems to follow the magic = good, technology = bad cliché. ( also: BEST WIZARD DUEL EVER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cZqRzHnI8s) 

though the site-of-the-last-battle falling apart due to the death of the final bad guy cliché is still there.  I guess it was held together by the power of eeevil?

[Alondro]

But... technology is bad... 

I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that?   

[Jairus]

Oh, and "technology/science = bad" and "old ways = good." Eurgh. I hate that trope, especially when the good guys are using the EXACT SAME TECHNOLOGY to fight the bad guys. So, "technology is bad, unless the good guys are using it?" That's like saying that "war is bad, unless we're doing it."

Have you ever seen Bakshi's Wizards?  the ending is a wonderful bit of subversion, in a movie that seems to follow the magic = good, technology = bad cliché. ( also: BEST WIZARD DUEL EVER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cZqRzHnI8s) 

though the site-of-the-last-battle falling apart due to the death of the final bad guy cliché is still there.  I guess it was held together by the power of eeevil?

Seen the duel, never seen the movie. It's a beautiful subversion... too bad it wouldn't work in my universe: all Modern Mages under combat conditions use magical barriers that block low-powered attacks. A revolver shot at point-black range to the face would leave a bruise, but not much else. You need heavier firepower (or magic) to fight a Modern Mage. In addition to all that, Modern Magic is extremely friendly with both technology and science. And I'm rambling here and talking about stuff that doesn't matter, so let's see if I can dredge uo another cliche I don't like and keep this on topic.

Um... hm... Empires = Evil, Kingdoms = Good. I mean, I guess that it's a minor thing, but can't we at least get some shades of gray in there?

But... technology is bad... 

I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that?  

Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.

[Janus Whitefurr]

But... technology is bad... 

I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that?  

Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.

[Jairus]

But... technology is bad... 

I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that?  

Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.

o:

Um... I don't think that's a good smiley.

Um, how about another one? Um... ancient and mystical weapons... no, I'm okay with that so long as it's done right. How about the Absolute Morality License that some Chosen Ones seem to pick up? This sort of "I'm the Chosen One and what I say is law" thing. Maybe it's just me, but that seems to show up a fair bit.

[superluser]

But... technology is bad... 

I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that?  

Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.

I agree.  You need to go out and rent The Terminator right now.

You can skip T2.  It was crap, and I have many good reasons for saying so.

[Janus Whitefurr]

But... technology is bad... 

I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that?  

Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.

I agree.  You need to go out and rent The Terminator right now.

You can skip T2.  It was crap, and I have many good reasons for saying so.

No Fate But What We Make > Judgement Day Is Inevitable.

[superluser]

No Fate But What We Make > Judgement Day Is Inevitable.

No fate but what we make is boring.

Plus, it was wrong.

[Janus Whitefurr]

No Fate But What We Make > Judgement Day Is Inevitable.

No fate but what we make is boring.

Plus, it was wrong.

...so following that argument, predestination > free will?

You're strange.

[superluser]

...so following that argument, predestination > free will?

No.  I'm saying that, in time travel stories, predestination makes for more interesting plots.

[Turnsky]

There is no such thing as true free will, as that free will may impact on the free will of others, who may use their free will to impact on yours..

The Future isn't what you make it, truth be told, if that were the case, there'd be happy endings all round. Sadly not so, your future is what choices you make on what you have, to that end, there is a certain amount of predestination on the outcomes of those choices, good, bad, deadly. If you will.

[Valynth]

...so following that argument, predestination > free will?

No.  I'm saying that, in time travel stories, predestination makes for more interesting plots.

Mostly because of the I.Q. time traveling discrepancy.  The less you know about the time you're going to, the more you can change it without causing a temporal paradox and destroying everything in existence (A.K.A. the more useful you are.)

Essentially, if a person goes back in time, he's still tethered to his knowledge  of the past (if he stops something he knows to happen, how will he know to stop it?) and anything that encounters him ALSO becomes tethered to his past by the manipulations of the fine details said character DIDN'T know.

Anyway, I dislike most films that display "absolutes" of good and evil, mostly because of their tendency to get very political depending on the view of the writer/director and the characters wind up very flat.  For example:  "I must let him go since he's unarmed despite the fact he's a raving fanatic and will probably show up to try and kill me again because I'm arbitrarily listed as the 'good guy.'"  or "I must destroy everything because I'm evil and need no other reason bwha-ha-ha-ha."  Sometimes that last bit can be changed to "feeding my evil military war machine," but it's still the same formulae.

Sadly many films start devolving as they go into this.  The exception being action films that fall under "Plot?  What Plot?  Hey Look big explosions!" and pretty much started off that way.

There is no such thing as true free will, as that free will may impact on the free will of others, who may use their free will to impact on yours..

The Future isn't what you make it, truth be told, if that were the case, there'd be happy endings all round. Sadly not so, your future is what choices you make on what you have, to that end, there is a certain amount of predestination on the outcomes of those choices, good, bad, deadly. If you will.

And if that were true, there would be NO happy endings.

Fact is, there's something you left out of your logic there and that is:  Only those who you LET impact your free will CAN impact your free will (a choice in and of itself).  Just because a government punishes you for it, doesn't mean you comply with the government as the story goes.