Atheism is a religion

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Everyone, I am sorry my post was such that it needed to be peeled off the original topic and moved to a different forum.

That was not my intention and I apologize for it.

As previously noted by PM, it wasn't you. It's where everyone else is taking it. Nothing personal, no problems, it's just the mods tidying up.

Bah, no one is going to read this long of a post....

Why not, I did. ;-]



I get the feeling not everyone looks at the world the same way I do (well, duh.) so...

I see Agnostic as meaning someone who doesn't know if God exists.
I see Atheistic as meaning someone who believes God doesn't exist.

There is a range of beliefs, obviously, because people are not binary, and you get people all the way across that spectrum. Zealots are a whole other bag of nuts.


Would someone care to dispute my meanings, or provide their own, differing values? It seems to me as if Agnostic and Atheistic have been confused, somehow - not purposefully on the part of the posters, but possibly deliberately by the Media, or other interested parties - vilification of people you want to destroy is always a first step...

[Paul]

it's always interesting to know what others think.

I think this thread is a fucking trainwreck.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

it's always interesting to know what others think.

I think this thread is a fucking trainwreck.

And we thank you for your scintillating, thought provoking input.

[Jairus]

Would someone care to dispute my meanings, or provide their own, differing values? It seems to me as if Agnostic and Atheistic have been confused, somehow - not purposefully on the part of the posters, but possibly deliberately by the Media, or other interested parties - vilification of people you want to destroy is always a first step...

For me, I consider myself an atheist because ultimately I find the idea of a supreme being to be a little silly. It's hard to explain, but ultimately I just feel like I don't need the a god who has been handed to me from a book written over thousands of years to tell me how to live. I also know that my beliefs - or lack thereof - don't fit everyone, and so am quite willing and happy to let other people believe what they want, so long as they don't go around forcing their beliefs on other people and persecuting people who believe something different. I'm still friends with the minister couple I've known since I was born, and I still talk to people at my church, so it's not like I want everyone to become an atheist. The reasons for someone being atheistic are as varied as the reasons for someone being religious, and in my case I basically abandoned religion when I was about fourteen or so.

I would like to point out that if any of the various gods or supernatural entities were real, I would acknowledge their existence but I still wouldn't "believe" in them, if that makes sense. Considering that in Genesis, the Abrahamic God says something about how "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil," I think we can figure out what is right and wrong on our own.

I'm not trying to offend (and for once I'm not being PC), this is just what I personally feel.

[thegayhare]

And now for something completely different



Man: I wish those bloody bells would stop.

Wife: Oh, it's quite nice dear, it's Sunday, it's the church.

M: What about us atheists? Why should we 'ave to listen to that sectarian turmoil?

W: You're a lapsed atheist, dear.

M: The principle's the same. The Mohmedans don't come 'round here wavin' bells at us! We don't get Buddhists playing bagpipes in our bathroom! Or Hindus harmonizing in the hall! The Shintus don't come here shattering sheet glass in the shithouse, shouting slogans-

W: All right, don't practice your alliteration on me.

M: Anyway, when I membership card and blazer badge back from the League of Agnostics, I shall urge the executive to lodge a protest against that religious racket! Pass the butter knife!

W: WHAT??

M: PASS THE BUTTER KNIFE!! (pause) THANK YOU! IF ONLY WE HAD SOME KIND OF MISSILE!

W: 'OLD ON, I'LL CLOSE THE WINDOW.

M: WHAT?!

W: I SAID, I'LL CLOSE THE WINDOW!

(Sound: Window closing, bells get faint, but are still there)

M: If only we had some kind of missile, we could take the steam out of those bells.

W: Well, you could always use the number 14-St. Joseph-the-somewhat- divine-on-the-hill ballistic missile. It's in the attic.

M: What ballistic missile would this be, then?

(Sound: Bells begin to get increasingly louder)

W: I made it for you, it's your birthday present!

M: Just what I wanted, 'ow nice of you to remember, my pet. 'ERE!

W: WHAT?

M: THOSE BELLS ARE GETTING LOUDER!

W: WHAT?

M: THOSE BELLS ARE GETTING LOUDER!!

W: THE BELLS ARE GETTING LOUDER! OOOH, LOOK!

M: WHAT?

W: THE CHURCH, IT.. ITS COMING CLOSER! ITS COMING DOWN THE 'ILL!

M: WHAT A LIBERTY!

W: ITS TURNING INTO OUR LANE! WELL, YOU BETTER GO PUT IT OUT OF IT'S MISERY.

M: WHERE'S THIS MISSILE, THEN?

W: IT'S IN THE ATTIC. PRESS THE BUTTON MARKED CHURCH!

M: 'OW DO I AIM IT?

W: IT AUTOMATICALLY HOMES IN ON THE NEAREST PLACE OF WORSHIP!

M: BUT THAT'S ST. MARKS!

W: IT ISN'T NOW, LOOK!! OH, ITS OP'NING THE GATE.

M: WHAT? USE THE MEGAPHONE!

W: IT'S OP'NING THE GATE!! 'HURRY UP, ITS TRAMPLING OVER THE AZALIAS!

(Sound: Missle launch, explosion, bells diminish)

M: Did I 'it it?

W: Yes, right up the aisle.

M: Well I've always said, There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he really doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not.

[Alondro]

Personally, I think Atheists are just smart enough to figure out how to live without requiring anyone else providing them with direction.

I suppose that's why such a huge percentage of neo-Nazi's and Communits are aetheists?  Plus, one of the founders of the modern aetheist movement was murdered by her own son for money.  And I personally knew a number of aetheists who couldn't even write a comprehenisble sentence.

They're no smarter than any other of the absurd hairless monkeys.  And too many use the lack of any afterlife or consequences as an excuse to do horrible things, just as the religious authorities use the perversion of the divine to justify horrible things.

Humans will always trend toward evil things.  Aetheism makes it much easier, as you don't really need to care about anything because no matter what you do you'll die and there's nothing else beyond.  Life is utterly pointless and futile.  That is the only ultimate truth of aetheism in it's absolute end to everything.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I disagree, Alondro, but that's ok - I'll also stand up for your right to disagree with me.

Sure, life is depressing and pointless and futile. I just don't feel the need for some fuzzy religion to help me face up to that.

Your decision may well vary. *shrug* Heck, you might well be right in believing that there really is a god. I could well be wrong, and you right. Who am I to tell you what to believe?

[Paul]

And we thank you for your scintillating, thought provoking input.

Oh, I was being sincere. If people want to explain their beliefs, as some do here, that's all fine and dandy. However, when they insist on "explaining" what other people - with whom they don't agree - believe and why, as others do here, it's just prejudiced and obnoxious. You have no way of knowing - not assuming, but knowing - the inner workings of a whole bunch of individuals that just happen to fit some group definition. John's a Baptist, Jack's a Baptist, but their belief is not the exact same nor did they arrive at it in the same way or for the same reason. Same goes for everyone else, no matter their belief or lack thereof.

(edited for typo)

[Jack McSlay]

By the way, Atheism is a religion as well, a religion where there is nothing bigger than man individually and ultimately an individual is only answerable to themselves. Everyone is a god to themselves and there is nothing beyond the here and now, really it is quiet a depressing religion.

No I begin to wonder why I am not depressed.

I believe that I have any power I'll ever need and there isn't someone with completely unknown purposes who is the one ACTUALLY controlling things.

Besides, I don't see how having to beg pray to god every night so he doesn't run me over with a dump truck tomorrow would make me any happier

[Yugo]

It really bothers me, PencilinHand, that the entire beginning of this debate is about defining a word, as opposed to trying to agree on what the heck reality is. This isn't a debate about definitions, it's about personal beliefs and faith. And by defining atheism as an all encompassing group, all you're doing is telling atheists that what they think of their faith is wrong, whatever it might be, and your definition is correct. Regardless of their own personal faith. And I really don't think that YOU would like it if I made generalizations about your faith that were incorrect.

[Omega]

I would like to point out that if any of the various gods or supernatural entities were real, I would acknowledge their existence but I still wouldn't "believe" in them, if that makes sense. Considering that in Genesis, the Abrahamic God says something about how "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil," I think we can figure out what is right and wrong on our own.

How can one know that something exists and not to believe in it? I think you mean worship instead of believe. I also think that this is a common mistake that many atheist make. I mean you probably believe in mathematics and physics, but you aren't likely to worship the, (unless you're really nerdy or a scientist). Perhaps the religion wouldn't be so far fetched idea if the idea of god would a bit more modern. After all, people have not changed enough not to repeat the same mistakes that we made in the dark ages. Did I say mistakes? I meant choices. There are no right or wrong choices in religion, only how you worship your chosen deity.

Oh, I was being sincere.

When giving out criticism, try to make it constructive rather than destructive. Rather than pointing out how stupid people are, one should tell them to educate
themselves more and to give more thought on matters before speaking out.

Besides, I don't see how having to beg pray to god every night so he doesn't run me over with a dump truck tomorrow would make me any happier

Perhaps you wouldn't be any happier, but some people might. Most people look for security from the prayers because they don't want to be afraid. It brings them comfort, I guess and if they are happy, who are you to question their power?
To be honest, I've been (trying to) speak with god. Well, that's a matter of definition, really. To religious person it would be praying, to atheist a honest self monologue, a Budhist would call it some sort of meditation and a voodoo shaman an afternoon chat with 'da spirits'. It is a moment when I calm down and ask myself the questions that have been bugging me. If I wait few minutes, the answers will come. Ask stupid questions, get stupid answers. Ask genuine questions, get genuine answers. Of course I am the one giving out the answers but that doesn't diminish the meaning of the answers one bit. They might as well be from the god, or from Allah or Buddha or my ancestors. Who cares? They are good answers and better than any other alternative that I've met so far.
There's an intresting story regarding this, but it's way too long for this post.

the entire beginning of this debate is about defining a word, as opposed to trying to agree on what the heck reality is.

Actually, almost every philosophical question one can make with words is just a matter of definition. The words are too flawed for us to completely tell other people what we think.

[Jairus]

I would like to point out that if any of the various gods or supernatural entities were real, I would acknowledge their existence but I still wouldn't "believe" in them, if that makes sense. Considering that in Genesis, the Abrahamic God says something about how "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil," I think we can figure out what is right and wrong on our own.

How can one know that something exists and not to believe in it? I think you mean worship instead of believe. I also think that this is a common mistake that many atheist make. I mean you probably believe in mathematics and physics, but you aren't likely to worship the, (unless you're really nerdy or a scientist). Perhaps the religion wouldn't be so far fetched idea if the idea of god would a bit more modern. After all, people have not changed enough not to repeat the same mistakes that we made in the dark ages. Did I say mistakes? I meant choices. There are no right or wrong choices in religion, only how you worship your chosen deity.

Okay, I'll give you that one. I did basically mean worship. I guess you could say that I might believe in them, but I wouldn't have any faith in them, if that helps. Urgh, headache coming on now.
      And you're right, Omega, that's the problem with any language: we define ourselves and our experiences and ideas through language, but if the word or term doesn't exist to describe something we can't do it. Matters of faith are just the kind of things where the terms overlap and get really really complicated.

[Omega]

I'm glad we agree with this.

[thegayhare]

The way I see things.  and I'm just wieghing in on the term belief here.

If something exists you don't need to believe in it.  

I certainly don't believe in my computer desk,  I know it's there. I can touch it and feel it and set things on it.   It doesn't require any belief, it's a table it's proven to exist.  If you know it's real you can't realy belive in it.

The only thing we can really believe in are intangibles.  Like when your a child you bel;ive in the tooth fairy, or the easter bunny.  those are intangible, they don't exist as we percive things so believing in them or not makes them real to that person anyway anyway.  As we grow up those intangibles are replaced with new ones that we believe in like Justice, Mercy and Honor,  these are the big ones.  Like with the smaller intangibles you can see evidence of these things Presents on christmass morning is seen as proof of santa,  The family of a murder victim asking a court not to seek the death penalty is seen as proof of mercy.  but on it's own these things don't exist unless you believe in them.

real things don't need belief a chair doesn't care if you believe in it or not it's just there,  but I'm sure most of use want to believe in justice and honor.  and that belief reflects in our actions and helps to bring about the instances of proof.

Course thats just one bunny's opinion

The funniest thing I ever remember on the topic of belief was an interview with Michel jackson's father... he was asked "Would you be happy if your son settled down with one person no matter if they were male or female"

The man's answer was
"My family don't believe in gays"

*chuckles*

[Omega]

So, what you're saying is that one can only believe in things that don't exists?

[Darkmoon]

Thread... so... long...

bored...

zzzzzzz...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

*slips a pillow under Darkmoon's head*

Ok, now everyone keep going. He hasn't had a decent night's sleep in months.... ;-]

[Mao]

I think Omega, that what TGH is saying is that it's things that can't be proven to exist that require belief.  Things that can be proven to exist don't require it.  Similar to what you said, but not exactly.

[Omega]

Oh? Then what can be proved then? I'm a sceptic (at least I think I am). In fact I'm so sceptic that I doubt everything and I mean everything (even that I doubt everything). There fore I live in constant hope that world around me isn't proved false at the next moment. This means that I don't separate things that I know and things that I believe in. Ergo, your argument is invalid to me, because those two things are one and same to me (or so I believe).

[Mao]

And a valid point, my skeptical friend, and one often expressed by many existentialists.  Is this all real?  How can we know?  Am I real?  Impossible questions to answer really.  I'll stick with the "Je pense donc je suis" or "Cogito, ergo sum" line of thought for now.  However the fun thing about the aforementioned argument is that it opens up all sorts of doors for interesting views on what *is* real then.  If none of this is real, does it matter what I do or say?  It's not real, so it doesn't matter if I walk up and kill that guy now right?  Dangerous line of thought there, but if it's really not real who cares right?  The fun thing about the path of eventually coming to believe that none of this is necessarily real is that it opens up whole new alley-ways into our own behavior.  Take for example the internet.  To many, being anonymous (and therefore not a real manifestation) on the internet opens them up to even their most base behaviors.  I jokingly refer you to this, but it proves an interesting point.  Put someone in a situation where nothing is real and therefore there are no actual consequences to their actions and watch the mayhem ensue.  It's really interesting don't you think?  I think that if you want to find out if this is real or not, go and find out if there are any real consequences to your actions.

[Reese Tora]

Just want to jump in here real quick, one doesn't need to have faith in something that is concrete, like a table or chair, but one does need to have faith in things for which evidence exists.

I have faith that my senses are reporting reality.
I have faith that the night sky isn't an illusion sitting like a spherical curtain surrounding the solar system.
I have faith that the airplane I am about to board has been serviced by a team of competent, though possibly overworked, mechanics.

I have faith in a lot of things for which I have evidence but no concrete proof.

It isn't required that something not exist or that no proof for something exist for you to have faith in it, just that you believe they exist despite not having 100% concrete evidence that they do.

for instance, I have no proof of extraterrestrial life, but the probability that it exists somewhere is high enough that I have faith that such exists. (It's just rather ludicrous to think that they are actually visiting earth, analy probing people, and mutilating our cattle, for the last 60 years, and no one but crackpots and some government agency capable of keeping a secret(which I also don't believe exists) have noticed.)

And a valid point, my skeptical friend, and one often expressed by many existentialists.  Is this all real?  How can we know?  Am I real?  Impossible questions to answer really.  I'll stick with the "Je pense donc je suis" or "Cogito, ergo sum" line of thought for now.  However the fun thing about the aforementioned argument is that it opens up all sorts of doors for interesting views on what *is* real then.  If none of this is real, does it matter what I do or say?  It's not real, so it doesn't matter if I walk up and kill that guy now right?  Dangerous line of thought there, but if it's really not real who cares right?  The fun thing about the path of eventually coming to believe that none of this is necessarily real is that it opens up whole new alley-ways into our own behavior.  Take for example the internet.  To many, being anonymous (and therefore not a real manifestation) on the internet opens them up to even their most base behaviors.  I jokingly refer you to this, but it proves an interesting point.  Put someone in a situation where nothing is real and therefore there are no actual consequences to their actions and watch the mayhem ensue.  It's really interesting don't you think?  I think that if you want to find out if this is real or not, go and find out if there are any real consequences to your actions.

And down hat road one may find nihilism.  I hear it's an interesting place to visit, but not somewhere one would want to live.

[thegayhare]

I think Omega, that what TGH is saying is that it's things that can't be proven to exist that require belief.  Things that can be proven to exist don't require it.  Similar to what you said, but not exactly.

That's it exactly sir.
I don't need to believe in my floor for it to suport my weight, I don't need to believe in my umbrella for it to keep the rain off. 

I believe that people are for the most part good, I believe the police are generally honest,

these are things I can't prove but are items I take on faith.

My own beliefs in god and the universe are rather odd.  I don't follow any set religion though I have read up on a number of them for fun.  Personally I believe that any being capable of creating the whole universe would be essentially beyond our comprehension.  thus any attempt by us to pigeon hole the creator into our veiw of what the divine should be is inherently flawed because it's filtered through our own limited perceptions.

For me this boils down to basically live your life as best you can

[Teroniss]

And I personally knew a number of aetheists who couldn't even write a comprehenisble sentence.

The irony in the sentence amuses me Alondro. As for me, I've been an athiest for as long as I can remember; personaly choice more then anything else. I just find myself capable of believing in any supreme being or beings. Does that make me a bad person; no I prefer to think not. I have a good set of ethics and morals, not racist or sexist in the slightest, and I would be very hard pressed to commit any crime that would physically or emotionally hurt someone else. As far as Pencilinhand's opinion of athiesm being a religion, I consider really more of a philosophy then a religion. I feel a religion needs the present of some kind of spiritual aspect.

[Alondro]

And I personally knew a number of aetheists who couldn't even write a comprehenisble sentence.

The irony in the sentence amuses me Alondro. As for me, I've been an athiest for as long as I can remember; personaly choice more then anything else. I just find myself capable of believing in any supreme being or beings. Does that make me a bad person; no I prefer to think not. I have a good set of ethics and morals, not racist or sexist in the slightest, and I would be very hard pressed to commit any crime that would physically or emotionally hurt someone else. As far as Pencilinhand's opinion of athiesm being a religion, I consider really more of a philosophy then a religion. I feel a religion needs the present of some kind of spiritual aspect.

As ironis as the misspelling is, it doesn't change the fact that it's true.  I wasn't talking about you.  Of course there are going to be aetheists who can control themselves, just as there are a whole lot of religious people who don't go around burning heretics at the stake.  My point was, aetheism isn't going to solve anything about war or hatred.  People will always find a reason because some will always be filled with hate for other people and some will always desire power at any cost.  That is an unbendable truth of human nature.

[Gabi]

I think the point of that argument is that, if everyone shared the same beliefs (be them atheism or any religion or philosophy you can name) there would be one less thing to fight about. So people would have to make do with fighting only about everything else.

On the other hand, if people could accept the differences and not make such a big deal out of them, the existence of different beliefs wouldn't cause any wars or similar conflicts.

[Jairus]

I think the point of that argument is that, if everyone shared the same beliefs (be them atheism or any religion or philosophy you can name) there would be one less thing to fight about. So people would have to make do with fighting only about everything else.

On the other hand, if people could accept the differences and not make such a big deal out of them, the existence of different beliefs wouldn't cause any wars or similar conflicts.

I'd prefer the second one. To be honest, to me the thought of everyone in the world having the exact same beliefs is frightening. Even if then we would have to make up some new excuse to kill each other.

[Alondro]

Personally I believe that any being capable of creating the whole universe would be essentially beyond our comprehension.  thus any attempt by us to pigeon hole the creator into our veiw of what the divine should be is inherently flawed because it's filtered through our own limited perceptions.

Indeed!  That's exactly my way of looking at it.  Mortals would never be able to understand how the mind of a being untold eons old works.  Just think of how your own life and way of thinking would change if you could potentially live 1000 years instead of 100.

That's why I always roll my eyes when fiction goes on about how immortality would be boring and a god would want to die and so forth.  Every case of that involves the writer putting their own dissatisfaction into the equation, which you cannot do if you're trying to actually understand what an immortal might be like.  It's very difficult to do, since he only things we are familiar with are transient.

I think Tolkien was close to it with Tom Bombadil.  He kept to his own space and was simply engaged in the act of being.  The mind changes dramatically when there is truly nothing to fear and no limits on time.

[shadowterm]

Atheism is the religion of not having a religion. While oximoronic, this is the basic definition. Oxymoronic ideas like this turn up all the time, and it's really because the definition of it's category is rather narrow minded. Debate over whether a prion is alive is still on-going because we can't even settle on a definition of what LIFE is. Given that it is easy to understand why people can see not having a religion, as a religion in itself.

[Mao]

Atheism is the religion of not having a religion. While oximoronic, this is the basic definition. Oxymoronic ideas like this turn up all the time, and it's really because the definition of it's category is rather narrow minded. Debate over whether a prion is alive is still on-going because we can't even settle on a definition of what LIFE is. Given that it is easy to understand why people can see not having a religion, as a religion in itself.

Eh, I will stick with the Atheism simply meaning : "Atheism, as an explicit position, can be either the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods, or the rejection of theism."

Theism.. being religion.

[Vidar]

Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color. Atheists do not believe in a god. They don't have 'faith'. Most even see blind faith, as proposed by all religions, not as a virtue, but as something that has caused far too much suffering already. Just open up any history book on the dark ages.

All religions propose the existence and veneration of the supernatural, be it a god, or an afterlife where some essence, a spirit or a soul, will live on after we die. Atheists reject these claims for lack of evidence. Indeed, no known religion sufficiently explains the grandeur and subtlety of the universe. Carl Sagan makes this point abundantly clear in "the pale blue dot".

To say that in the atheistic world view there is nothing greater than man is to be misinformed at best.
You only have to look up at the night sky to realise that there is a whole universe out there far greater than any man, or even all of mankind put together.

As for atheists not being answerable to anyone but themselves: horsehockey! Atheists live under the law like anyone else, and atheists must answer to the social contract as much as everyone. Atheists can do this without the promise of heaven or the threat of hell.
Some atheists would even go so far as to say that every good deed an atheist does is marginally better that the good deeds of a religious person. The atheist does good, because it is the right thing to do, while the religious motives are tainted with the selfish desire to get into heaven, and stay out of hell.

Atheists don't believe in a god, because there is not enough evidence for one. All the arguments for the existence of a deity can be explained otherwise without the need for a supernatural entity. We call these explanations 'science'.

As for atheism being depressing, I find the doctrines of Christianity far more depressing. The idea that every moment of your life you are being scrutinised by the omnipotent creator of the universe, and if you don't end up with blind faith in his existence, and love him above all else, and fear him at the same time, he will throw you into hell, where you will burn and suffer for all eternity! And if you happen to have sufficient faith (and, according to some denominations, if you go to the right church), he will let you into heaven.
It doesn't matter how much good you have done, or how much evil you have wrought, as long as you have enough of the right faith, you will end up in heaven. The Christian god apparently calls this 'justice'.
Some Christians would argue that everyone is 'saved' because of Jesus. I can't speak for other people, but the idea that a human sacrifice was needed before god could forgive us the flaws he made us with in the first place, is not something I can morally subscribe to.

And I personally knew a number of aetheists who couldn't even write a comprehensible sentence.

The irony in the sentence amuses me Alondro. As for me, I've been an athiest for as long as I can remember; personaly choice more then anything else. I just find myself capable of believing in any supreme being or beings. Does that make me a bad person; no I prefer to think not. I have a good set of ethics and morals, not racist or sexist in the slightest, and I would be very hard pressed to commit any crime that would physically or emotionally hurt someone else. As far as Pencilinhand's opinion of athiesm being a religion, I consider really more of a philosophy then a religion. I feel a religion needs the present of some kind of spiritual aspect.

As ironis as the misspelling is, it doesn't change the fact that it's true.  I wasn't talking about you.  Of course there are going to be aetheists who can control themselves, just as there are a whole lot of religious people who don't go around burning heretics at the stake.  My point was, aetheism isn't going to solve anything about war or hatred.  People will always find a reason because some will always be filled with hate for other people and some will always desire power at any cost.  That is an unbendable truth of human nature.

There are stupid people everywhere, no matter what their beliefs (or lack thereof), so it is quite possible that you have met atheists who couldn't spell their way out of kindergarden. I have even seen some quotes of fundamentalist atheists on fstdt.com, but those are very rare.

I think the point of that argument is that, if everyone shared the same beliefs (be them atheism or any religion or philosophy you can name) there would be one less thing to fight about. So people would have to make do with fighting only about everything else.

Not likely. Even if you start with only one religion, people interpret that religion differently. Some would be more forgiving in the following of the rules a religion proposes, and others more strict. People would attach different meaning to the various religious texts. This leads to arguments and schisms, and you would end up with multiple denominations within the same religion, which can violently conflict with each other. You only have to look at the rise of the protestant church from the catholic one in the history books to see how bloody religious infighting can get.

As for atheism being a doctrine that binds people in unison: you might as well herd cats. The only thing all atheists have in common is the lack of religious beliefs. in everything else, they are their own person with their own beliefs and convictions. Two atheists can get into a fight about something they disagree upon.
It is, however, much more difficult to tell a group a atheists that their non-god wants them to eradicate <insert religious group of people of choice>, that it is to tell people of devout religious convictions to do terrible things in the name of a god. Cases in point: the crusades, witch hunts, Muslim suicide bombers, and the World Trade Center. There are some atheists that have dome terrible things, but they didn't do these things because they were atheists, they did these things because they were evil men.
The saying "Good men do good, and evil men do evil, but to make a good man do evil, you need religion" has more truth to it than many of us would like to believe.

Personally, I think Atheists are just smart enough to figure out how to live without requiring anyone else providing them with direction.

I suppose that's why such a huge percentage of neo-Nazi's and Communits are aetheists?  Plus, one of the founders of the modern aetheist movement was murdered by her own son for money.  And I personally knew a number of aetheists who couldn't even write a comprehenisble sentence.

There are stupid evil bigots in all groups, but these are hardly representative of atheists as whole, just as suicide bombers are not representative of the Muslim faith, and the Westboro Baptist Church also does not represent all of Christianity.

Also, what is this "modern atheistic movement", what was the name of this founder, and when was she murdered? I haven't been able to find anything about this on google.

They're no smarter than any other of the absurd hairless monkeys.  And too many use the lack of any afterlife or consequences as an excuse to do horrible things, just as the religious authorities use the perversion of the divine to justify horrible things.

People who need the threat of hell to be good are beneath my contempt. They are evil people who are to cowardly to do what they want. Let them stay in their religion, and let them keep their delusions.
I, for one, will do good because it is the right thing to do, and I will not harm my fellow human beings because that would not be the right thing to do.

Humans will always trend toward evil things.  Aetheism makes it much easier, as you don't really need to care about anything because no matter what you do you'll die and there's nothing else beyond.  Life is utterly pointless and futile.  That is the only ultimate truth of aetheism in it's absolute end to everything.

Humans don't always trend towards evil, and they don't need religion to bully them into complacency. If they did, than countries like Sweden, the Netherlands, and Japan would have a very big anarchy problem. Yet these countries are doing very well for themselves, without rampant hordes of people raping, pillaging and murdering their way through the streets. In many ways they are ahead of the US, and other religious nations in terms of health, happiness, and standards of living.
Atheism is not as corrosive to morals and ethics as you might think, Alondro.