12/16/06 - Abel's Story - 30 seconds....

[Jack McSlay]

Wrong.

It's Piccolo!

makankousappo!!!
hmm could also be a railgun spell

[Tapewolf]

Abel at his young age is like your everyday average teenager.  It's not until he becomes a SAIA student and seen horrific horrors that he becomes hardend enough to defend himself in a life or death situation.

Actually he's around 23.  In a medieval human society you're considered a full adult at a considerably younger age than 16 or 18 - most people don't reach 40, after all.  In that case he should have been battle-trained from 10 as Dan seems to have been, and public executions would have been considered a high form of entertainment so he would have been no stranger to death.
Growing up in Zinvth seems to have given him more of a present-day outlook and softened him - contrast with Devin.

[Janus Whitefurr]

Abel at his young age is like your everyday average teenager.  It's not until he becomes a SAIA student and seen horrific horrors that he becomes hardend enough to defend himself in a life or death situation.

Actually he's around 23.  In a medieval human society you're considered a full adult at a considerably younger age than 16 or 18 - most people don't reach 40, after all.  In that case he should have been battle-trained from 10 as Dan seems to have been, and public executions would have been considered a high form of entertainment so he would have been no stranger to death.
Growing up in Zinvth seems to have given him more of a present-day outlook and softened him - contrast with Devin.

Furrae (past or present) ≠ Human medieval society. What happened in our history has no bearing on Amber's completely fictional (and governed by her own creativity) world. Move along.

[Tapewolf]

Furrae (past or present) ≠ Human medieval society. What happened in our history has no bearing on Amber's completely fictional (and governed by her own creativity) world. Move along.

If you have a better model to extrapolate from, I'd like to hear it.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

TGH said that Abel was ``just a librarian,'' and ``not used to the imediate therat of death.''  We were coming up with librarians that did deal with death on a regular basis.  (Ooh!  Conan the Librarian?)

Fine for overdue books:
1 day - shave.
2 days - close shave.
3 days - decapitation.

*grin*

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Furrae (past or present) ≠ Human medieval society. What happened in our history has no bearing on Amber's completely fictional (and governed by her own creativity) world. Move along.

The problem, Janus, is that, at present, we don't have a better model.

I'm sure Tapewolf is aware of the lack of corroborating evidence. I know -I- am. However, until we find something that breaks the link, the best guess we have is simply the already known history.

Of course, we -do- need to keep in mind that it's just a guess. And revisit it after each new speck of knowledge that appears. :-)

[Tapewolf]

The problem, Janus, is that, at present, we don't have a better model.

I'm sure Tapewolf is aware of the lack of corroborating evidence. I know -I- am. However, until we find something that breaks the link, the best guess we have is simply the already known history.

Lessee:
Dan quit being an adventurer at 24.   Most adventurers die long before then, even in present-day Furrae - that's from his bio.  Unless the normal career plan for an adventurer is to start training at 16 and die on their first outing, they must have started training around 10 or 12.  David Gemmell's pseudo-medieval universe does this.  The UK does this now with some kind of young cadet scheme for the airforce although I can't remember it's name so finding the joining age is tricky.

In the DvP arc, Dan said that he last visited the realm of Hollyann "long ago" or "a few years ago".  6? 8? 10?  If he was a hotshot adventurer as seems likely, the idea of a 16-year old Dan taking on Dark Pegasus makes a certain amount of sense - if adventurers have a shorter childhood.

I don't know if Furrae in some backwater 400 years ago practised public execution, but the UK only stopped it some 140 years ago and France had it until 1940.  Given that most Furrae we've seen are of predator descent I would be most greatly surprised if the ethical standards in Abel's village then match ours now while they're running around with swords, longbows and wooden carts.

That was the other part of my point - Zinvth is more like a modern city and probably doesn't go in for that sort of stuff.  That's where Abel's been living since he was about 6, and while Devin appears to have lived in something akin to a medieval village, Abel had an experience far closer to ours so it's only to be expected that he's going to have problems when suddenly thrust 'back into the past' as it were.

[superluser]

Actually he's around 23.  In a medieval human society you're considered a full adult at a considerably younger age than 16 or 18 - most people don't reach 40, after all.

He's 24, unless he had a birthday between when he learned about Cindy's death and the funeral.

Life expectancy is a good question.  If Abel's arc is based on 16th century Europe, then that would be about right.

The adventurer idiom, however, is itself based on medieval romantic literature like the Percival stories or El Cid or Amadis of Gaul.  We know from Don Quixote that by the actual, real-life 17th century, knight-errantry had been defunct for so long that it was the subject of ridicule.

so ``present day'' at Lost Lake should be set in at least the analogue of 16th century Europe, which pushes Abel's arc back to the 12th century.

That means that most people, in ``present day,'' would probably have a life expectancy of around 40.  Which would mean that you should probably start your adventurer training at around 10, yada yada...

public executions would have been considered a high form of entertainment so he would have been no stranger to death.

Death as a spectacle often serves to further estrange the observer from death.  When you've got hooded pickpockets lined up on the gallows, it can sometimes be hard to recognize that these are actual people dying.

On the other hand, he would have probably seen many of his friends die of the flu, food poisoning, parasites, and often the `cures' for such ailments.

[Elader Arkon]

I wonder how the others are doing...

I don't think Glory and crew are just sitting around either.

[Alondro]

*Charline hee hee!*  Oooo!  I wish I could be watching the whole battle!  It looks like so much fun!  And as long as we're doing silly speculations, I think it must be a Castor shell.  It's probably the Outlaw Star guy who thinks all the furry critters are part of the Tao Pirates and so he's gonna blast all of them, which is why humans will be a terrifying legend in the present day DMFA!  

*Charles erms*  She got into the catnip schnapz again.  

[Jack McSlay]

dunno how many similarities DMFA has with the real world, but I don't think the medieval age expectancy applies. that happened because of poor medicine knowledge, while DMFA have had healing magig going on  for years, so it's likely the people on DMFA haven't had shorter average lifespans in its past.

[Amber Williams]

The average lifespan of beings in Abel's Story is a lot higher than the average lifespan of the human midde-ages.  Just because there is a gap between societies doesn't mean one side is going to shirk thousands of years of medicinal practices and hygiene.

I should forwarn that your speculations are coming dangerously close to nit-picky.  In the same way that I'm not an expert of glass-technology and the historic significance of stainglass vs sheet glass (and also the difficulty in drawing the difference), I'm also not a full-expert on the various upbringing methods enforced in Middle-age times.  While I have a general idea of what is going down...odds are its not going to synch up with anything historically accurate in our time.

DMFA has a few similarities to our world...but by no means is it a perfect duplicate of our society. And while the temptation to compare the two is understandable and there...odds are its going to end up dissapointing than enlightening.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

DMFA has a few similarities to our world...but by no means is it a perfect duplicate of our society. And while the temptation to compare the two is understandable and there...odds are its going to end up dissapointing than enlightening.

.. you make it sound like we're going to be disappointed when it turns out we're utterly wrong, rather than, well, amused and enlightened...


We're kicking ideas around. I don't think anyone has any huge emotive attachement to their ideas. At least, I hope not. I know I don't...

[GabrielsThoughts]

So... is Amber saying the citizens of furcadia chose to invent fiberglass, and aluminum  over developing projectile weapons beyond the bow and arrow?

[Stygian]

No, she's saying "Mwehehublahafegergh! You! People! Stop with the pointless criticism and get with the imagination!"

And I agree with her. Seeing as how Furrae has existed for a long time, and people seem to re-invent and rediscover technology all the time, it could all be perfectly logical... in a fashion.

And is it normal for Charline to be that cute? *oogles her with an off expression*

[Arcalane]

A little pain never hurt anybody.

much

[KarlOmega1]

I agree with the few people that think the thing that impacted that part of the wagon was a Warp-aci...*I'm kinda looking at it from a certain point of view*...the Warp-aci could have been spinning, so that's why it looked like the purple streak was swirling...

just saying it's a possibility (*to Amber: I won't brag about it if it's true...*)

[Azlan]

Furrae (past or present) ≠ Human medieval society. What happened in our history has no bearing on Amber's completely fictional (and governed by her own creativity) world. Move along.

Here here!  That and commentary here does not equal definitive, historically accurate information that can be published upon any topic credibly.  There are rare instances.

[Landon_Fox]

Actually, it's quite possible for them to miss firearms as a weapon.  Europeans did not invent gunpowder.  It was invented by the Chinese who didn't think to use it in that fashion.   Europeans simply found a new and devastatingly effective way to use it.

If this trade doesn't occur, there are no guns.  But the rest of technology marches on.

As for comparing to time periods, it would make more sense to ask, "What would Amber put in?"  She seems to favor the RPG mix of swords and guns.

[thegayhare]

As Amber said before

There was no real motive for them to invent certain things since magic was so reddily avalible.  Look at Devin in the recent comic.  He defeated his opponent with one shot.  It would have been a lot harder if he'd had a rifle.

so it makes sense that weapons technology might lag behind building tech.  When a single unarmed soldier can easily kill at range like that who needs  gun,  But a sturdy, lightwieght building material could be invaluable in an outpost like this

[Kasarn]

I suddenly have a desire to see a fantasy steampunk version of DMFA...

[superluser]

We're kicking ideas around. I don't think anyone has any huge emotive attachement to their ideas. At least, I hope not. I know I don't...

Heck, these aren't even *my* ideas.  What I'm saying is that if this were an actual analogue to history, this is what it would look like.  The whole thing is anachronistic by its very nature, so trying to actually make it work is a fool's errand.

[Kenji]

In the same way that I'm not an expert of glass-technology and the historic significance of stainglass vs sheet glass (and also the difficulty in drawing the difference)

And you call yourself an artist.

[Arcalane]

Actually, it's quite possible for them to miss firearms as a weapon.  Europeans did not invent gunpowder.  It was invented by the Chinese who didn't think to use it in that fashion.   Europeans simply found a new and devastatingly effective way to use it.

If this trade doesn't occur, there are no guns.  But the rest of technology marches on.

As demonstrated in one particularly peculiar game of Civ 4 I had once. The Arabs, under my command, invented nuclear power, fission and such, completely bypassing steam power, the radio, and more importantly, steel![/i]

[Jack McSlay]

besides, May and Cid are on what age? mid-to-late 50s?

[Tapewolf]

besides, May and Cid are on what age? mid-to-late 50s?

Thank you.  This is how rational debate is supposed to work.  You don't throw up your hands and say "There are some things mankind is not supposed to know", you offer evidence and counter-evidence.

(Of course we don't know if they would have lived that long if they hadn't moved to a modern setting)

**EDIT**
..to make it a bit more polite, although it's probably too late now..

[Janus Whitefurr]

Thank you.  This is how rational debate is supposed to work.  You don't throw up your hands and say "There are some things mankind is not supposed to know", you offer evidence and counter-evidence.

(Of course we don't know if they would have lived that long if they hadn't moved to a modern setting)

**EDIT**
..to make it a bit more polite, although it's probably too late now..

I'd say so.

[Tapewolf]

..to make it a bit more polite, although it's probably too late now..

I'd say so.

Yeah, sorry about that.

[Stygian]

As Amber said before

There was no real motive for them to invent certain things since magic was so reddily avalible.  Look at Devin in the recent comic.  He defeated his opponent with one shot.  It would have been a lot harder if he'd had a rifle.

so it makes sense that weapons technology might lag behind building tech.  When a single unarmed soldier can easily kill at range like that who needs  gun,  But a sturdy, lightwieght building material could be invaluable in an outpost like this

Indeed. But when not everyone seems capable of performing magic, the need for technological contrivances would still be there. If such valuable teachings as magic for those without innate magical capabilities were lost, the rest of the world would suffer from it. And there would be a need for inventive people, such as Jyrras, to even out this gap of power and neccessity.

[rt]

Well if you need high tech weapons of destruction there is always Jyrras' "farming equipment"

Also with the mix of some technology and magic you are defiantly going to get some interesting inventions ... such as extra shiny windows [or whatever the issue was  ]

Just turn up your Suspended Disbelief up a few notches and it all makes seance
.. or .. "a wizard did it"