8/10/2012 [DMFA #1329] - Moar flashback! Doodly-doodly-doodly…

[TacticalError]

Or did she just think that he would be facing off against a dragon at some point, and it wasn't the main threat?

Well, considering that she said that "the second any dragon finds out Dan is from Cyra's Clan they are going to try to kill him...except for one dragon. He's nice."

So dragons are likely going to be a main threat at some point.

So is Fa'lina talking about this instance separately or as part of a larger incident?

[joshofspam]

There is one final thing I would like to say about this page before I go of line and start doing the things I need to be doing today.

I like the facial expressions in Panel four and five. With how similar their both drawn, you can see the difference too. Fourth you can see both the agitation, annoyance and slight anger at the stupidity to have to fight and be accused by the BOB to protect Alexsi. While the fifth panel just shows just the irritation of being sent away from the academy.

The facial expression also shows that Abel certainly come a lot further then back from those days. I thank Amber for drawing such faces.

[Nino]

i like you. you're full of logic and thinks. i actually came over here to type up something along these lines and MY GOD SOMEONE NEW(?) DID IT FOR ME

as a reward for your thinks nino i will draw you a thing

Oooh, that sounds awesome. What thing will you draw me?

Just a timeline question though...I know it's hard to figure, but it seems like it has to have been more than a month since Dan, Abel et al left SAIA the first time.

You know, Fa'Lina came and told Abel her two-month predictive ability (also seen here) was ending... so it's almost certainly already been at least month, so that window of time would have come and gone. Something about Abel being there already prevented their death... maybe when they went to go rescue Alexsi and Abel helped get the whole 'show off Lost Lake' thing done (maybe Dan would have stayed but not pretending to be Alexsi and alerted the wrong person to his presence?).

(I've been re-reading a lot of story arcs lately, which is why I've been able to find so many references without having to dig for an hour :p)

[Feather Dancer]

I suspect Fa'Lina means they might have gone digging into Merlitz sooner of Abel wasn't there to fob them off and anything with wings could have potentially come under fire. Mean God knows what'd happened without a stand in there to help cover his absence given they were already Cubi checking at the time and have already shown little regard in how good they appear to be. I do however like the theory that a Cubi is indeed the cause but due to someone out for info on that Cubi not the Cubi themselves.

[icarus]

Oooh, that sounds awesome. What thing will you draw me?

whatever manner of thing you desire. i dunno if you have art site accounts or anything though

[Eboreg]

I think Abel saved their lives when telling Dan how to hide his headwings.

[AmigaDragon]

We FINALLY get to see what she said to convince him!

And why would he care? He doesn't really know any of them at that time and all along professes "no desire" to make friends. Does he even know Dan is Destania's son at that point? (Clan mark hadn't shown up yet to show Cyra)

It's like the Oracles have to be as cryptic and easily misinterpreted as possible, even when being blunt.

Personally, I think the Oracles are up to something. In fact, I'm guessing this is their play to kill Jyrras by eliminating his friends first, or some other long and convoluted scheme.

While I think (stated in the previous thread) that the more blunt they are, the less truthful they may be.

[Feather Dancer]

We FINALLY get to see what she said to convince him!

And why would he care? He doesn't really know any of them at that time and all along professes "no desire" to make friends. Does he even know Dan is Destania's son at that point? (Clan mark hadn't shown up yet to show Cyra)

On being related to Dee, Fa'lina put the framed clan marking she clouted Dan with into the room he was sharing with Abel so very likely if the Folder of info Fa'lina originally gave him on Dan didn't tell him, that would have been enough.

[lycaonpictus77]

We FINALLY get to see what she said to convince him!

And why would he care? He doesn't really know any of them at that time and all along professes "no desire" to make friends. Does he even know Dan is Destania's son at that point? (Clan mark hadn't shown up yet to show Cyra)

His reaction to the name "Ti'Fiona" in http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_426.php and http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_527.php seem to indicate he has at least a basal attachment to Dan or Dan's family. And given what we know from http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1194.php, I think it's fairly safe to assume he feels a indebted to, or a kinship with, the Ti'Fiona family.

[Lying Foo]

What is curious though, is that the impression Amber has been giving us lately (including Abel's own opinion) that 'Cubi aren't usually very murderous.  They're highly strung, emotionally sensitive and they need to be around living people to feed.  They can easily be pushed to violence, and that might be what happened to Merlitz, but one planning a massacre as is implied here, that seems to be pretty rare.

I don't think we've been getting that impression at all.  As Abel said, "the majority of Cubi are jerks," and my guess would be the standard for "jerkiness" is a bit higher in a world where thrill killing is a common pastime and shoot-first-ask-questions-never vigilantism is a way of life.  We've seen that Aniz and Cyra think little of killing beings to achieve their ends, and Aaryana and Destania barely need a reason, and no one at SAIA seems to do more than tut until they get splashed with the repercussions.  Sure, Abel and most likely Mink would never harm a being without cause, and of course Dan wouldn't, but what about the rest of the academy?  However friendly the Cubi we meet at the academy are, isn't Aaryana friendly with those in the academy, and those she considered friends outside?  My guess would be that she's more indicative of the typical Cubi lifestyle on the outside than Mink's mother.

And even where Fa'Lina is concerned - whom did she end up getting Dee for her classes, anyway?  (Although granted, this guy seems to be doing all right...)

[D'ymkarra]

What is curious though, is that the impression Amber has been giving us lately (including Abel's own opinion) that 'Cubi aren't usually very murderous.  They're highly strung, emotionally sensitive and they need to be around living people to feed.  They can easily be pushed to violence, and that might be what happened to Merlitz, but one planning a massacre as is implied here, that seems to be pretty rare.

As Fa'Lina herself said to Abel, even those of his own clan, and those like it who have an affinity for the darker emotions, tend to avoid direct violence/ killing, because 'the dead are not unhappy'. It would be entirely counterproductive for any 'Cubi to willfully destroy his/her only food source, except in cases of self defense.

[Keleth]

Hey guys.

I don't wanna say the cubi is ....

But I'm pretty sure it's

[Lying Foo]

...is it bad that I now think Giorgio Tsoukalos might be Aniz?

[lycaonpictus77]

...is it bad that I now think Giorgio Tsoukalos might be Aniz?

No, that's definitely canon now.

[Nino]

Oooh, that sounds awesome. What thing will you draw me?

whatever manner of thing you desire. i dunno if you have art site accounts or anything though

This is mine: http://kattuccino.deviantart.com/gallery/

What kinds of things do you make for people? Can I see your's? Also, I can make you one of these suckers in return if you want it:


:D

[Tapewolf]

I don't think we've been getting that impression at all.  As Abel said, "the majority of Cubi are jerks,"

"[They] might not kill you straight up, but they all have plenty of 'Cubi pride... and the morals that come with it."
And so far, Dan's return visit to the Academy has been pleasant.  No, the first one wasn't, but I do think that the story has changed slightly in the telling.

For that matter, Abel's opinion is a little suspect anyway - he's got a misery affinity, has been a pawn of Destania and Aniz and hasn't really been happy for centuries from what Amber's said.  I would not be surprised if Abel's only remembering the ugly side of things at the academy because of this.

We've seen that Aniz and Cyra think little of killing beings to achieve their ends,

We've seen Aniz (after being driven insane by Hizell) fly into a 'Cubi rage-state after being attacked, and then immediately regret it afterwards and panic.  This was almost certainly the state Abel referred to of 'Cubi running purely off emotions and not thinking.

Aniz absolutely did murder Cid and take his place.  Again, he was criminally insane and Destania's ex.  He was so far gone that even Fa'Lina couldn't understand him anymore and absolutely not a typical 'Cubi.  It's worth mentioning that if Jakob's right (and he's not all smiles and roses himself in his own canon) this kind of replacement is a very rare occurrence, at least after the wars.
I will agree that it may well have been more common before them - 'Cubi seem to have been a fairly unpleasant lot before they got their comeuppance.

And again, that makes a lot of sense - if you're part of a race that's being persecuted and reduced to under about 30'000 worldwide population, most of whom are hiding for their lives, are you really going to run around killing people for S's and G's and stirring up trouble?  If you teach a school for such a race, are you going to teach your students that anything they want goes?  IMHO a successful school would teach that they have to keep their noses clean to avoid being hunted down like animals.

As for Cyra, we haven't seen her kill anyone - but we've heard of her attack a dragon to achieve her own ends.  That resulted in the destruction of the entire city, but it absolutely was not her plan since she wanted to rule the people inside it, not turn them to shiny statues.  And that was before the war, back when 'Cubi weren't fighting extinction.

and Aaryana and Destania barely need a reason,

Yeah.  Aary was Destania's protege, though. Early on in my writings (2005 onwards) I made the mistake of assuming she was a typical 'Cubi, and from what we've seen since in SAIA that appears not to be the case these days.  IMHO she's a bit of a maniac who appears to have lapped up Destania's teachings.  Even Abel says that she's atypical (e.g. for not hiding her wings) though being rivals, he may well be biased when it comes to her.

FWIW Abel decries Destania as being entirely evil and the source of most things 'Cubi are accused of.  She's certainly not typical either.

I think, that in summary, there's a problem of bias - we're only seeing the interesting ones and not the majority.

And even where Fa'Lina is concerned - whom did she end up getting Dee for her classes, anyway?  (Although granted, this guy seems to be doing all right...)

Two things.  Firstly, that's from 2005, and I honestly think that Amber's changed direction a bit since then.  It's known that Abel has diverged from his original design.
Secondly, and crucially important - Fa'Lina has foresight.  She uses this to try and ensure the best for everyone, in the long view.  What happens in the short term may not so nice.  However, I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that Destania in the Academy where Fa'Lina can keep an eye on her and prevent her from doing too much damage was better than her running unrestrained.

Now.  Since then, Destania has left.  She then had the responsibility of Dan and Edward to keep her out of trouble for a while, and now she's engaged in her secret anti-dragon project.  What I'm saying is that it's very possible that Fa'Lina - with her foresight - sees this project as the best available future for the 'Cubi race.  In which case, Destania's role at the Academy may have been a device to ensure she remained safely there until the preordained Right Moment.

[Plotting]

I think, that in summary, there's a problem of bias - we're only seeing the interesting ones and not the majority.

While I understand what you mean by typical and atypical 'Cubi I think it would be very difficult to say what is truly typical for a 'Cubi. Consider for example the sheer variety of topics that an individual 'Cubi might study while at SAIA, which includes, but is not limited to, torture, breaking and entering, shape shifting, geology, grass growing, literature, basket weaving, home-ec (apparently not a class one should choose! ), etc.

How does one decide what is and is not typical for a 'Cubi when the interests of a 'Cubi can be as varied as this?

Now.  Since then, Destania has left.  She then had the responsibility of Dan and Edward to keep her out of trouble for a while, and now she's engaged in her secret anti-dragon project.  What I'm saying is that it's very possible that Fa'Lina - with her foresight - sees this project as the best available future for the 'Cubi race.  In which case, Destania's role at the Academy may have been a device to ensure she remained safely there until the preordained Right Moment.

This makes me wonder - what would Fa'lina consider to be the best outcome for the 'Cubi as a species? A world where 'Cubi can simply live unmolested? Or a world where the 'Cubi are able to be ultimate jerks who deserve their comeuppance, like it was prior to the 'Cubi/Dragon war?

One the one hand, she does seem to care about others, and has the best interests of others close to her heart. But this seems to be apply more to 'Cubi and Creatures, not Beings. She does not mind Beings being used in her Academy for torture lessons - like Destania used to do. She has also stated in the past that her clan is not dedicated to peaceful behavior. So there seems to be a dark side to Fa'lina.

Edit

And if the anti-Dragon scheme of Destania is in the best interests of the 'Cubi then where does Pyroduck fit into it? I mean, he is like a son to Fa'Lina, and she wants to get grand babies out of him. She could not possibly want anything bad to happen to him, right?

[icarus]

This is mine: http://kattuccino.deviantart.com/gallery/

What kinds of things do you make for people? Can I see your's? Also, I can make you one of these suckers in return if you want it:

aw you make those? those are hella adorable.

if you have a particular character i'll doodle 'em up real nice for ya. here's my stuff.
http://not-fun.deviantart.com/gallery/

[YawnPB]

Hmm, are we sure that's Nite's attack he is deflecting?  His attacks are more green it seems, he's deflecting blue attacks.  Could be that Amazon with her new MacGyver'd tazer spear <.<;;

IMHO I get a wisp from that flashback that Able might know who this mystery Cubi is.  He's been around awhile, and it could very well be likely that other cubi have lived there before the main cast was established. 

It has been stated that unless they are really powerful or mentally unstable Cubi hide their identity in public.  Out in the "Cottage country" of Lost Lake you could easily change identities as the years pass by.  With no really being the wiser.

Aniz so far seems to be dead, but can't rule him out.  However I do wonder.... what about his other mentally unstable kids besides Able.  Falina seemed to indicate he usually dumps them at SAIA messed up.  Though he wasn't allowed to have more since the "incident", it's suggested he had others before Able?

Out of curiosity I wonder if Falina's future sense only applies to students, or to anyone who visited SAIA.  Could she have foreseen Merlitz's fate as well?

[lycaonpictus77]

Hmm, are we sure that's Nite's attack he is deflecting?  His attacks are more green it seems, he's deflecting blue attacks.  Could be that Amazon with her new MacGyver'd tazer spear <.<;;

I believe that's some of Pegasus's magic--he was using it in tandem with his sword earlier.

[Yarott]

My first reply ever! Big fan of your work for almost 5 years! Anyways, I must say that was one heck of a plot-twist (was it?) bombshell you dropped, Amber!

[Lying Foo]

"[They] might not kill you straight up, but they all have plenty of 'Cubi pride... and the morals that come with it."

Literally the panel before, he refers to Cubi as "the race most likely to rip out [a being's] spine at random."

And so far, Dan's return visit to the Academy has been pleasant.  No, the first one wasn't, but I do think that the story has changed slightly in the telling.

Sure, at the academy.  I expect that the academy, where everyone is there at Fa'Lina's pleasure and has every incentive to play nice, is not the best place to gauge their usual mores.

We've seen that Aniz and Cyra think little of killing beings to achieve their ends,

We've seen Aniz (after being driven insane by Hizell) fly into a 'Cubi rage-state after being attacked, and then immediately regret it afterwards and panic.  This was almost certainly the state Abel referred to of 'Cubi running purely off emotions and not thinking.

He panicked because of the damage he'd done to his plans, not what he'd actually done.  He barely seemed to care that he'd killed an innocent Mythos; he was scared of how Fa'Lina would react to her death.  Moreover...

We've seen that Aniz and Cyra think little of killing beings to achieve their ends,

Aniz absolutely did murder Cid and take his place.  Again, he was criminally insane and Destania's ex.  He was so far gone that even Fa'Lina couldn't understand him anymore and absolutely not a typical 'Cubi.  It's worth mentioning that if Jakob's right (and he's not all smiles and roses himself in his own canon) this kind of replacement is a very rare occurrence, at least after the wars.

...he didn't give a whit about killing Cid, or terrorizing May, or basically raping her for decades, or using her as a meat shield.  It wasn't without purpose, but the means far dwarfed the end.

As for Cyra, we haven't seen her kill anyone - but we've heard of her attack a dragon to achieve her own ends.  That resulted in the destruction of the entire city, but it absolutely was not her plan since she wanted to rule the people inside it, not turn them to shiny statues.  And that was before the war, back when 'Cubi weren't fighting extinction.

She can't have thought she could take the city without making a few examples of its inhabitants.  Again, I'm not suggesting that Cyra was going around killing for fun like Aary, Kria, or Regina, but I very much doubt she wasn't more than willing to get blood on her hands, just not quite that much.

And even where Fa'Lina is concerned - whom did she end up getting Dee for her classes, anyway?  (Although granted, this guy seems to be doing all right...)

Two things.  Firstly, that's from 2005, and I honestly think that Amber's changed direction a bit since then.  It's known that Abel has diverged from his original design.

2007 - the second one is from 2005, but I mainly linked that as a joke.  From his calmness and the fact that that doesn't appear to be a classroom, I very much doubt that's a torture class - if it's a class at all, it's probably an S&M class.  (Although I am kind of holding out hope for an explanation of a friggin' dragon at SAIA.)

Secondly, and crucially important - Fa'Lina has foresight.  She uses this to try and ensure the best for everyone, in the long view.  What happens in the short term may not so nice.  However, I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that Destania in the Academy where Fa'Lina can keep an eye on her and prevent her from doing too much damage was better than her running unrestrained.

Dunno - I have a hard time thinking that having hear teach others to act like herself is better than just leaving her to her own devices, especially as quiet as she's been lately.  If nothing else, you'd think she could get her to teach courses that don't involve torture, rape, chopping up adventurers, etc., especially if it's as central as you imply in perpetuating a false stereotype over the centuries.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

(Although I am kind of holding out hope for an explanation of a friggin' dragon at SAIA.)

Ambaargh mentioned in the forum somewhere, it's a mythos, not a dragon. Sorry I've not got the interest in looking up the link, but it might be referenced in the wiki...

[Tapewolf]

Literally the panel before, he refers to Cubi as "the race most likely to rip out [a being's] spine at random."

Again, Abel is not the best person to ask about 'Cubi.  Probably because of Aniz and his own affinity.

Sure, at the academy.  I expect that the academy, where everyone is there at Fa'Lina's pleasure and has every incentive to play nice, is not the best place to gauge their usual mores.

Perhaps.  But the purpose of the Academy is to train 'Cubi to survive in the world outside.  That doesn't happen if your students go around killing people.

He panicked because of the damage he'd done to his plans, not what he'd actually done.  He barely seemed to care that he'd killed an innocent Mythos; he was scared of how Fa'Lina would react to her death.  Moreover...

He apologised to Abel for killing Henya.  It's about the only thing he actually did apologise for.  Granted he said that May was worthless in the same breath.
But at the end of the day, Aniz was not behaving normally for a 'Cubi.  You cannot hold up a madman whose actions have upset at least two clan leaders as an everyday example of the 'Cubi race.  (And ultimately, we don't have any everyday examples to point at :-/ )

...he didn't give a whit about killing Cid, or terrorizing May, or basically raping her for decades, or using her as a meat shield.  It wasn't without purpose, but the means far dwarfed the end.

See above.  The only person who was favourably impressed by Aniz' behaviour was Destania, who wanted to take credit for it.

She can't have thought she could take the city without making a few examples of its inhabitants.  Again, I'm not suggesting that Cyra was going around killing for fun like Aary, Kria, or Regina, but I very much doubt she wasn't more than willing to get blood on her hands, just not quite that much.

Granted.

2007 - the second one is from 2005, but I mainly linked that as a joke.  From his calmness and the fact that that doesn't appear to be a classroom, I very much doubt that's a torture class - if it's a class at all, it's probably an S&M class.  (Although I am kind of holding out hope for an explanation of a friggin' dragon at SAIA.)

The 2007 one is about Fa'Lina objecting to Destania's methods and putting her foot down.  It didn't seem to support what you were saying...

Dunno - I have a hard time thinking that having hear teach others to act like herself is better than just leaving her to her own devices, especially as quiet as she's been lately.  If nothing else, you'd think she could get her to teach courses that don't involve torture, rape, chopping up adventurers, etc., especially if it's as central as you imply in perpetuating a false stereotype over the centuries.

Well, it's interesting to note that Amber mentioned that not all 'Cubi like Fa'Lina.  Some think of her as a saint, others a monster.  IIRC this isn't helped by the fact she tends to adopt a different personality depending on who she's talking to in order to help them reach their full potential.  With Aary ('Cubi raised, traditionalist) she'll giggle and joke about decapitating Beings.  With Mink, or Abel or someone raised as a Being, she'll be more sympathetic and Pro-Being.

People seeing her do both with tend to get the impression she's manipulative and sinister, and she might well be.  But her Academy gives 'Cubi a significant advantage in surviving outside and so it's widely used.

[YawnPB]

Ah yes, forgot about Pegasus.  Colour pretty much matches too.

IMHO Cubi tend to be bad fighters because of the emotionally reckless fighting.  Fighting a rookie they might get away with a blind rush.  However an experienced fighter can simply goad them into a berserker rush like a bull.  Then hello mr. pointy under the cape, bye bye Cubi <-x.x-<<

[Lying Foo]

The 2007 one is about Fa'Lina objecting to Destania's methods and putting her foot down.  It didn't seem to support what you were saying...

That's just it - she put her foot down at Destania using children in her torture class.  So whom did she use?

Also, forgot to mention - although Jakob does say it's "uncommon" for Cubi to do what Aniz did, it's at least common enough for him to recognize the signs, have had pamphlets printed, and assume Dan's story was more like Abel's than the more Hanlon-ey truth.

[Tapewolf]

That's just it - she put her foot down at Destania using children in her torture class.  So whom did she use?

We don't know.  It's quite possible that she didn't get any.  Amber's mentioned that Destania and Aary actually have a pretty low body count, and Dan has more (if interested, see: http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,8729.msg358453.html#msg358453 ), so I'd say that Fa'Lina has done a reasonable job of keeping her under some kind of control.

What we do know is that SAIA has Beings on staff (and also a couple of students with 'Cubi siblings from what I've heard).  You're not going to get that situation much if they're used as fodder.

Also, forgot to mention - although Jakob does say it's "uncommon" for Cubi to do what Aniz did, it's at least common enough for him to recognize the signs, have had pamphlets printed, and assume Dan's story was more like Abel's than the more Hanlon-ey truth.

Perhaps.  Or perhaps it's a common rumour.

[Amber Williams]

There are plenty of negative and sinister-esque classes that happen at the Academy. Because at the end of the day Fa'Lina had to decide "teach only the classes I want and have no one come to the Academy because clans will think I'm trying to brainwash their children into pacifists." and "Allow courses I don't approve of personally that other clans will want to."  By and Large Fa'Lina has to maintain a fairly neutral stance on things because the Academy is a place of varying personality and clans.  And yes, some of those clans are pretty vicious and don't really help that much when it comes to the races' reputation.  This usually tends to happen with leaderless clans simply because there is a lack of direction and focus.  However, leaderless clan members then also have the most potential to reconsider versus a Cubi who will often be more loyal to their clan's goals.  So yes, there are the various nasty courses, but most of them have some pretty hefty regulations.   Most clans prefer to simply teach such things themselves off-school since it allows less regulation and rules.


As for the comic where Abel is giving Dan-in-the-wagon a tour, A: the couple on the rack was a cameo of a married duo hence the quirkiness.  B: the creature in that panel was not a dragon but a Mythos and I weep everytime at how I didn't give it nearly enough eyes since everyone keeps thinking it's a dragon. 

[Nino]

aw you make those? those are hella adorable.

if you have a particular character i'll doodle 'em up real nice for ya. here's my stuff.
http://not-fun.deviantart.com/gallery/

Thanks!! Your gallery is AWESOME. How about one of my Cubi designs from this pic (unfinished). I don't have a fursona or anything but I love these gals. They're supposed to have backwings but I haven't put them in yet (pixel art takes a really long time).

(your entire post)

I feel like you're getting a vibe that's not necessarily there, like you're interpreting the comic too seriously or cynically or something. I know some of it's heavy stuff (like torture and stuff), but I don't know, not that heavy? Certainly saying Aniz was, uhh, assaulting May without her consent in a sexual manner is definitely stretching the truth a little. Yes, he was lying about who he was, but I didn't get the feeling anything rough was going on in that manner, and it's sort of not a good comparison to compare that to, you know. Well you just can't say she was terrorized and raped for decades, that's a real black and white and not accurate at all view of what went on, because their relationship before the reveal seemed pretty good, even if it was faked on Aniz's part.

[Pvblivs]

Okay, I'm having to wonder just how stupid Nitemyst is.  (And I'm hoping I got the right name.)  The Phoenix culture is not based on relaying information.  It is based on obscuring it.  Even though what they say is technically true, deriving a useful truth is virtually impossible.  The Phoenix also never said anything about a cubi at Lost Lake.  She (?) spoke of a cubi from Lost Lake.  There are regulars there who can confirm he is from someplace else and so cannot be anyone they might be looking for.  Plus, if there were only one cubi from Lost Lake, the Phoenix would probably have had to say "the cubi from Lost Lake," though that might be an over-analysis on my part.