03/29/10 [AS2#95] Wow...

[Jasonrevall]

Aniz is not that smart. He was a dumb kid before his clan got destroyed, then he became a psychopath. He isn't a master of disguise, he just changed his form (something all cubi can do), and kept it changed. He isn't a genius planner; the moment Abel was revealed to be a cubi, all his plans fell apart.
Not to mention that Aniz would not have dared go into the city of Zinvith after his fiasco. His mother stayed in that city her whole life, so not only could Abel have gotten backing by allies from the academy, he could have gotten his (second) home town to help him.

Abel is being told facts that he does not want to know, but hey, the truth hurts.

It is one thing to change your appearance. Sure anyone can put on a disguise, but it takes a master to make it convincing for decades. I don't think his plan fell apart all that much. His plan was to have a child and enter him into the Academy. And since Abel is in SAIA, I would say that yes, he did succeed in his mission. And no his mother did not live in that city her whole life.

But that also means that Aniz was a phantom. Phantoms, when intelligent, do not need strength to take down their opponents. From what I've seen, Aniz is a master of disguise. He would be a great assassin as well. All those times he could have already killed Abel's mother. There is a huge chance that Abel's mother would have been killed or kidnapped before anyone of his so called "Allies" would even notice. After all they've done such a great job at finding Aniz to begin with. Actually, I would wager that Aniz is a mastermind, and would have probably killed Abel's mother and taken her place. Then in her form, he would slowly kill Abel, and anyone else protecting her, slowly and painfully.

Objection: there is no motive for Aniz to do that at all. Granted he might be insane, but planning an elaborate plan to do all that for no real reason is somewhat far-fetched.

As for Abel, do note that he's still recovering from heavy trauma and hence not exactly in the right mind to do any serious training. Not to mention that the apparent resident psychatrist is Ink...

IIRC Aniz threatened to kill his mother if Abel left to see her or live with her. But i guess he wouldn't kill Abel, so that part you may be correct about. Unless of course he would consider Abel a liability if not in SAIA, then he probably would kill Abel. I was stating a hypothetical if he did what Aary suggested.

[Les]

And now we see the key emotion behind Aary's antagonism towards Abel... contempt.

We also see just how much more easy or difficult a challenge can be, simply based on perspective.  From one perspective a mountain is a mole-hill and barely qualifies as a tripping hazard, from another it can seem like Mt. Everest and all you have to get you up and over it is a pair of sneakers and a light jacket.

Aaryana's perspective comes from a 'Cubi Uber-Alles' attitude, if there's a problem that can't be solved by `Cubi powers then `Cubi powers can be used to obtain the means to obtain the means to obtain the means to solve that problem.  Aniz didn't display anything that could be classed as a unique skill or ability compared to the basic `Cubi powerset.  He shape-shifted, all `Cubi can shape-shift.  He kept a decades-long ruse, he probably mind-ripped his target before killing him and assuming his identity.. any discrepancies could be, "Being an adventurer, seeing what I've seen, it changes a man."  Still pretty basic stuff.  He used his wings as weapons, again totally basid `Cubi material.    The SAIA is an institution dedicated to enhancing a `Cubi's powers, no telling how much Abel could have buffed-up in 10, 20, or even 30 year's time.  Aniz was a student at the same institution, one could go over his records and deduce his major strengths and weaknesses.   He was personally approached by a powerful `Cubi from a Feared and Respected[TM] clan, figuring out how to creatively tell Aniz where he can stick his ultimatum is perfectly doable from Aaryana's perspective.

From Abel's perspective, having personally seen Aniz fillet his best friend, 'Daddy' is a scary-scary monster who could jump out of the shadows at any time and go 'BOO!'.

Such is the power of perspective.  WE know all of the above on how Abel could, between Destania's offer and SAIA's resources, have easily pwned Aniz's future plans.  Hell, he could even have just quit SAIA that day and gone to Kria, a powerful Demon and member of a prestigious and powerful Family of Demons, and she'd have personally ripped off Aniz's wings and fed them to him through the 'Cartman Orifice' the instant he popped-up in town again.

But no, `Cubi are scary and wicked boogymen who destroy all they touch (Just like Dad.) to Abel at this point in his backstory and he can't reconcile the fact that such could in any way actually Help him.  And judging from Abel's recent bad dream, he's still not quite gotten over the idea that `Cubi are scary and wicked boogymen who destroy all they touch (Just like Me.)

[candide]

I feel I should bring up two things just for quick mention.

1.  This actually isn't the first time Aaryanna and Abel have encountered each other.  Perhaps it is bad storytelling on my part, or something I will probably mention up in actual DMFA, but in regards to their meeting, one could say there is already a bit of bad history between the two for multiple reasons.  As for the question of why Aaryanna or someone didn't come to Abel years ago with their offers.  She did.


2:  The actual Aaryanna, the kind and wonderful person who let me use her persona many years ago, is a kind and wonderful person.  While I will say that the character in the comic has a life all her own at this point, [...]

i.e: she's more ticked off at Abel's inaction than anything else and that deep down she's kind and compassionate?

Well, think back to DMFA::Aaryanna during her appearance.  She's something of a one-note tune:  a talented succubus who excels at what she does, is damned proud of her kind and her heritage (to the point of openly flaunting the latter) and who thinks that cubi are the best.

Also, considering that Aary is 30 years older than Abel (and was, therefore, already at SAIA for 39 years when Abel arrived (see Aary's cast page for when she started at SAIA)), I rescind my earlier theory and go with what someone else suggested:  Aaryanna's acting like a annoyed sarcastic big-sister.  Who doesn't like her whiny kid-brother.

[Feather Dancer]

Don't know about anyone else but certainly for Abel's early days (Aka right now) leaving aside even the immense mental trauma that decided to oneshot after another and now his mother, I wonder if this is the final "snap" for him finally realising he is no longer a Being but a Cubi/Creature instead. Just the way he's been acting and his first hand experience of his first Cubi just defaulted him to "I'm supposed to be like that but I'm not. I'm just a regular winged Being".

Though that brings to mind Dan's fear of his Cubi heritage turning him into the monsters he fought in the past. Wonder if Abel was thinking the same this early on and was actively scared of it? He certainly seems to have accepted some things tho subconscious may have grabbed the bainster when Mink slipped but not others perhaps.

Just another spin on the thoughts Just been musing about Fa'lina's comment of "Until I foresaw a time when Aniz could not get her but that will be because it will be too late by the time he finds out" and then this ramble came forth. Hrm.

[joshofspam]

Or, he's a coward.  He had friends.  Allies.  Powerful ones.  He had options.  Access to training and knowledge.  Instead, he gave in to fear and let the actions of a mad man cow him and now he's whining about it.  Rather than blame himself for his own inability to do what had to be done (and to use what was right at his fingertips!), to *take* the steps necessary, he cowed and hid behind the excuse that something *might* happen.  Chicken.  Coward.

I get the feeling that this isn't the first time that someone has stepped up and pointed it out to him, either.  Even in the main arc, Abel is nothing but a little coward who pushes people away by being dicks to them because he's afraid.  I don't even know what he's afraid of anymore.

Well let's look at the other side of the coin.

He might of thought it wasn't worth sacrificing his mothers life over. Would you sacrifice your mom on any percentage of chance even if the chances where slim that she would be killed if you could avoid the whole problem entirely?

I think now that his mother is dead though, he might not have anything holding him back anymore.

[Mao]

Well let's look at the other side of the coin.

He might of thought it wasn't worth sacrificing his mothers life over. Would you sacrifice your mom on any percentage of chance even if the chances where slim that she would be killed if you could avoid the whole problem entirely?

I think now that his mother is dead though, he might not have anything holding him back anymore.

As I said:  It *might* happen.  Then again, she could have been killed while Abel hid away baww'ing at SAIA too.  Lots of things *might* happen.  He chose instead to cower in fear.  Aniz *might* have decided, given that he's a bit looney, that offing May suited his purposes.  Then where would Abel stand?  The simple fact is:  He did nothing but cower in fear.  He let himself stay paralyzed while his mother's life dwindled away.  He squandered the time he had, the chances and opportunities to make a difference and the power to do so.  He's damn lucky that May not only understood that he was just afraid, but forgave him.  She still loved him.  Some people however are not so forgiving.  He had everything he needed at his fingertips and he wasted it.  Now they're showing their displeasure.

Folks are calling them various expletives for what is essentially caring enough about him to try to help him see the massive mistake he's made and his own cowardice.  Are they being nice about it?  No, not at all.  Should they be?  No.  They see someone who had the power and opportunity to make right a wrong who instead chose to do nothing.  I'd be pissed too.

[Ry]

I think knowing their history will have a big effect in how I take this. On the one hand- she has a point. Although Abel's got a serious blood phobia that can easily be played upon and insanity does, well, crazy things to a person; it's true that Abel's in an academy where he could have gotten Allies to, at minimum, help him protect his mother in case seeing her goaded Aniz out of hiding. On the other hand- could have pointed this out at any time in the last 3 decades.

[Les]

Just another spin on the thoughts Just been musing about Fa'lina's comment of "Until I foresaw a time when Aniz could not get her but that will be because it will be too late by the time he finds out" and then this ramble came forth. Hrm.

That was given Abel's current trajectory through the school.  Had he taken-up Destania's offer or otherwise been more pro-active she may have forseen things differently.  

[Mao]

I think knowing their history will have a big effect in how I take this. On the one hand- she has a point. Although Abel's got a serious blood phobia that can easily be played upon and insanity does, well, crazy things to a person; it's true that Abel's in an academy where he could have gotten Allies to, at minimum, help him protect his mother in case seeing her goaded Aniz out of hiding. On the other hand- could have pointed this out at any time in the last 3 decades.

I feel I should bring up two things just for quick mention.

1.  This actually isn't the first time Aaryanna and Abel have encountered eachother.  Perhaps it is bad storytelling on my part, or something I will probably mention up in actual DMFA, but in regards to their meeting, one could say there is already a bit of bad history between the two for multiple reasons.  As for the question of why Aaryanna or someone didn't come to Abel years ago with their offers.  She did.

Word of god says:  She did.

[Turnsky]

take this into consideration that Abel still acts like a child from time to time, despite being 600-odd years old, and still hasn't quite gotten over his hemophobia...

in many ways Abel's is as much a child as any other of the lost lake residents... i shall point out to folks that Dan has shown more determination and backbone than Abel has. Granted Dan's life hasn't been as.... sheltered as Abel's has been.

SAIA is a security blanket for Abel, he feels safe there... that's why he seems so vulnerable in the DMFA proper.

[Feather Dancer]

That was given Abel's current trajectory through the school.  Had he taken-up Destania's offer or otherwise been more pro-active she may have forseen things differently.  

While true it could have aso be a strand variant, either way I think just that kinda made me wonder a bit more After all the why an action (or inaction) might be taken is far more interesting than the actual thing.

[AGE00]

Maybe I have this all wrong, my memory not being so hot, but wasn't Abel operating under the assumption that his mother had no desire to see him? I mean, he is basically the end product of a horrendous fraud that was perpetrated against the women over a period of decades, rendering most of her life a hollow farce. The whole thing puts me in mind of those wasps that paralyse cockroaches, then lay their eggs inside them. A living being cruelly reduced to little more than an incubator.

So, yeah, why should Abel have risked his mother's life in order to secure the option of doing something that could quite conceivably be of no benefit to either of them? Why not just let her put the whole devastating mess behind her and move on with her life? I mean, sure, she made nice on her death bed, but she'd had thirty years to get over it, and, for all we know, she could have bitterly resented Abel and Aniz that whole time, only to have a change of heart at the last minute.

I guess what I'm saying is that doing something is not automatically better than doing nothing. Sometimes, the wisest course of (in)action is to just let things lie.

[Mao]

Sure, if you want to live a life of regret.  A life of never knowing for sure.  All I see is a coward running away from 'maybes' and 'what ifs'.

[Turnsky]

Sure, if you want to live a life of regret.  A life of never knowing for sure.  All I see is a coward running away from 'maybes' and 'what ifs'.

he does like to hide in a darkened basement beneath an inn.

[AGE00]

So you're saying that, for the sake of his own peace of mind, he should have gambled with his mothers life for no guaranteed gain?

Old Chinese proverb: "The greatest victory is the battle not fought." Why fight when there's no tangible reason to?

[Keleth]

A lot of people forget.

Yes, it's normal to be in fear or regret for a few years.

Most people seem to forget that hey. Us as humans live to be around 90-100.

And most people -get- to a functional level from emotional trauma within their lifetime.

So Here Abel had . . what. . if may was in her 30s, and died in her 80s, she had at least 50 years. Or half of a lifetime to do -something-

The fact he's lived . . what, 5-7 persons lifetimes and hasn't been able to do shit makes him almost a completely worthless person of integrity or character at the core.


Jeeze guys, the second someone can almost live forever without dying, what we let em sulk and cry for over 2 millenia? Think about this.

ABel has been moping from 1600 AD to NOW. And he's still a big baby. Think about that.

[Turnsky]

So you're saying that, for the sake of his own peace of mind, he should have gambled with his mothers life for no guaranteed gain?

Old Chinese proverb: "The greatest victory is the battle not fought." Why fight when there's no tangible reason to?

Determination, Abel Lacks..

[Mao]

So you're saying that, for the sake of his own peace of mind, he should have gambled with his mothers life for no guaranteed gain?

Old Chinese proverb: "The greatest victory is the battle not fought." Why fight when there's no tangible reason to?

Thing is:  By inacting he was gambling just as much.  I don't know if you've noticed, but Aniz is nuts.   A little unpredictable.  If he's as much of something to be afraid of that you all make him out to be (ignoring all of the things in place and available that are more powerful and more able than him all clamoring to help Abel, and all the things Abel could have done to ensure her safety by training himself), he could have just up and decided to kill May.  Abel left her unguarded if you look at it that way from the perspective you're taking.

You say that there's no benefit?  How about knowing that you mother is alright and loves you?  How about knowing that you didn't sacrifice all of those years away from her for nothing?  How about getting strong enough to end the threat of her being murdered by Aniz?  How about letting her know that her son is alright and loves her very much?

[Turnsky]

If you think about it, Abel's kinda like Shinji from neon-genesis. 

[Ry]

Word of god says:  She did.

Ah, takk. Missed that bit- that's one problem with skimming posts, I got that they'd met, but missed what happened.   In this case... Yeah...  I'm going to hope that there's a valid reason for not that happens ot be the reason why Fa'lina didn't do anything along the same vein... Y'know, hopefully more than politics.

But, yeah, hard to stay sympathetic to Abel. Mink's adorable as ever, though.

[Aganerral]

My take on Aary's involvement - she's in this for Destania.  Remember from the main strip that Aary pretty much idolizes Dee.  If that's already the case at the point in time that Abel's Story takes place, then she may know about Aniz and Dee's history and wants to help Aniz get crushed for breaking Dee's heart.  And since Abel isn't helping...

[demecowen]

If you think about it, Abel's kinda like Shinji from neon-genesis. 

I think Shinji showed more courage than Abel ever did and that really sad.

[Tapewolf]

While it is certainly arguable that Abel squandered the 39 years his mother had since he joined the Academy, it is interesting to note that he was acting under the false assumption that his mother wouldn't age.  After all, he didn't, and nor did Aniz.
See: http://missmab.com/Comics/Ab_071.php

...also, as Fa'Lina says in the previous strip, it's easy to lose track of time within the Academy.  She has to remind him that it's been 39 years in the first place.

It's probably a little early to state in absolute terms whether he's amounted to nothing at this particular point in time, since we only know that he hates the shapeshifting class.  For all we know he's top of the literature class - he was, after all a librarian, and if this strip is anything to go by, he's not stopped reading.

It is known that by the time he is forced to leave the Academy he's become something of a polymath, and is in fact one of the top students (see his cast page).  To be fair, this hasn't exactly translated into real-world experience for him so far.

I do seem to remember reading that part of the rivalry between Aary and Abel was due to Abel apparently being naturally talented at learning things, when he applies himself.  I wonder whether this encounter is part of what  goads him into doing that.

[Mao]

Ah, takk. Missed that bit- that's one problem with skimming posts, I got that they'd met, but missed what happened.    In this case... Yeah...  I'm going to hope that there's a valid reason for not that happens ot be the reason why Fa'lina didn't do anything along the same vein...

I think many of them tried to help in their own ways, but at the same time, this was very much Abel's fight.  He had the most to gain or lose.  If they acted without his permission and succeeded, he'd never have closure.  He'd have to face all the wasted time and his own cowardice and inability to act.  If they failed, he'd be plunged even further into fear and doubt.  Someone earlier spoke of battles best not fought, this is one of those times.  Abel is already embroiled in this.  The battle has been brought to his doorstep and he chose to hide.  He got lucky that, aside from a vast amount of wasted time, things turned out ok.  He lived and still lives ruled by fear.

[AGE00]

Thing is:  By inacting he was gambling just as much.  I don't know if you've noticed, but Aniz is nuts.   A little unpredictable.  If he's as much of something to be afraid of that you all make him out to be (ignoring all of the things in place and available that are more powerful and more able than him all clamoring to help Abel, and all the things Abel could have done to ensure her safety by training himself), he could have just up and decided to kill May.  Abel left her unguarded if you look at it that way from the perspective you're taking.

You say that there's no benefit?  How about knowing that you mother is alright and loves you?  How about knowing that you didn't sacrifice all of those years away from her for nothing?  How about getting strong enough to end the threat of her being murdered by Aniz?  How about letting her know that her son is alright and loves her very much?

In all honesty, I just don't find that line of reasoning terribly compelling. Aniz has an agenda that wouldn't be served in any way by going back over covered ground to knock off what is presumably one of a number of former ball and chains. I seem to recall hearing he'd farmed a few kids in what I presume to be a similar fashion, but don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Anyway, point is that she was never anything to Aniz but a burdensome means to an end. Why would he kill her when she's still performing a valuable function? Even craziness tends to have a certain degree of logic to it.

If you think about it, Abel's kinda like Shinji from neon-genesis. 

Hey, whoa! Let's not say anything we can't take back, here! 

[Turnsky]

If you think about it, Abel's kinda like Shinji from neon-genesis. 

Hey, whoa! Let's not say anything we can't take back, here! 

Why? is it because that beneath the facade that Abel casts himself, while intelligent, is still the scared little child of self doubt and loathing that he's carried for a long time, hidden away in the reaches of SAIA.. Think about it.. Why he hates shapeshifting so much - is because his father did precisely the same to be someone else.. He still hasn't conquered his fears, and has a great deal of emotional baggage to tote around.

[Mao]

In all honesty, I just don't find that line of reasoning terribly compelling. Aniz has an agenda that wouldn't be served in any way by going back over covered ground to knock off what is presumably one of a number of former ball and chains. I seem to recall hearing he'd farmed a few kids in what I presume to be a similar fashion, but don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

The guy nearly blew his entire plan at the end because of a momentary burst of what was essentially insanity.  His plans, no matter how well thought out they are, seem to be pretty flimsy in the face of his loose marbles.  Beyond that, May had friends in high places.  If she chose to, she could have spoiled everything for him.  She knew him.  Knew enough of him to get the word out, and had friends who could absolutely wreck him if she asked them to.  She was a very dangerous loose end.

[AGE00]

Why? is it because that beneath the facade that Abel casts himself, while intelligent, is still the scared little child of self doubt and loathing that he's carried for a long time, hidden away in the reaches of SAIA.. Think about it.. Why he hates shapeshifting so much - is because his father did precisely the same to be someone else.. He still hasn't conquered his fears, and has a great deal of emotional baggage to tote around.

Yeah, but... Shinji Ikari? Really? You don't think that's a bit strong, maybe? A bit harsh? I mean, we all have baggage, man. That's no reason to go comparing anyone to the Adolf Hitler of Emo.

The guy nearly blew his entire plan at the end because of a momentary burst of what was essentially insanity.  His plans, no matter how well thought out they are, seem to be pretty flimsy in the face of his loose marbles.

There's a difference between someone experiencing a few momentary lapses in control and them going out of their way to kill a person. One is impulse, the other requires premeditation and focus.

[Alondro]

2:  The actual Aaryanna, the kind and wonderful person who let me use her persona many years ago, is a kind and wonderful person.  While I will say that the character in the comic has a life all her own at this point, I figure I should re-mention that just in case the actual Aary does show up that everyone best be nice to her. The interpretation of Aaryanna in the comic is not necessarily the interpretation done by the actual original owner.  And I would be rather upset if people turned any ire they had to the character onto the actual person.  I doubt anyone would, but I figure I would like to mention this just in case the actual Aaryanna does read this thread so she doesn't feel like suddenly everyone is hating her.

Don't worry.  That'd be like everyone hating me because of Charline.   

*Charline grins*  They do hate you, because of me.   And because you suck. 

*Charles*   

[Mao]

There's a difference between someone experiencing a few momentary lapses in control and them going out of their way to kill a person. One is impulse, the other requires premeditation and focus.

There's the thing:  He's got both.  He's impulsive.  He makes decisions that others don't understand based on his own, frankly, crazy logic.  The whole clan revival plan ring a bell?  Rushing out to his death at the hands of a dragon?  Lashing out at the one person who cared enough to save his life?   

He's also shown a pretty good ability to plan and stick to said plans.  Now what happens when he forms a plan and acts it out due to that crazy and impulsive logic of his, like he's been doing so far?  He's unstable at best.  Unstable and, from what we've seen, prone to violence when things don't go as he planned them.  May becomes a thorn in his side from knowing too much?  How long 'till his crazy little mind forms a plan to off her?  Maybe she doesn't even do anything to be a thorn in his side, maybe he just sees the possibility of it and decides that this time, he's going to have a plan to deal with that, unlike what happened with Hennya.

And all this time, Abel is off crying in some basement rather than even trying to make a difference.  The whole point of saying that it's a gamble that Abel had no stake in is bupkis.  He was taking as much of a gamble by not acting if we're going to rely on what ifs.

Even then, he could have tried to do something to stop Aniz.  Even if he couldn't go out and see his mom for fear for her life, he could have taken those combat courses.  He didn't.  He cowered instead.