How to kill Hizell

[Shakal]

While there are a ton of individual factors involved, the twin examples of Siar and Hizell's wife just indicates that the two are somewhat comparable to one another, as in each case one was able to kill the other. (I don't think Siar's clan honestly factor into things, as as soon as Hizell killed the clan leader the rest would be reeling so much from the blow they'd lost nearly all combat effectiveness, at least temporarily). And clan leaders tend to all be in hiding in terms of their true physical form, as even though they're incredibly powerful, they're still eminently killable.

The theory of "they're killable in Being form" doesn't seem to gel with what we know about the war to me. If you have to trick a dragon into being form before you can kill them, there'd be no point of Siar calling her clan, as if the dragon was in being form one swipe and the kill is done, but if they are in dragon form the only choice is to run. You'd have expected to have hardnly lost any dragons in the war at all, again probably having it called more a slaughter then a war. Heck, all Pyroduck would need to do to not have to kill Hizell's messengers is just change into dragon form and let them impotently stab at him.

[Tapewolf]

The theory of "they're killable in Being form" doesn't seem to gel with what we know about the war to me. If you have to trick a dragon into being form before you can kill them, there'd be no point of Siar calling her clan, as if the dragon was in being form one swipe and the kill is done, but if they are in dragon form the only choice is to run. You'd have expected to have hardnly lost any dragons in the war at all, again probably having it called more a slaughter then a war.

You may be right.  But frankly, we don't actually know much about it at all.  Unless I'm much mistaken, all we do know is that Hizell lost his wife and 5 of his children (one of whom is Pyroduck), whereas the 'Cubi race lost something like 90% of its members.  So 'slaughter' may in fact be a more accurate description.

Heck, all Pyroduck would need to do to not have to kill Hizell's messengers is just change into dragon form and let them impotently stab at him.

That's actually what she expected him to do, and she was miffed and insulted because he didn't.  Though ultimately, would that have helped?  She was ordered to kill him, and prepared to die in Hizell's service.  She wouldn't have gone back, or gone away.  From what she says in that scene, it sounds like she'd have waited and stabbed until he either assumed a more vulnerable form, or died herself.

[The One Guy]

Id say probably the same way Quoar killed Hizell's wife (who probably wasn't much younger or weaker than Hizell)

Well, we saw how that worked out for Siar.

That's because of Hizell's retaliation, not because of the method used to kill her.

[Maddy]

Step one steal Jyrras's entire arsenal, Step two get people to crew the machines, Step three recruit a ton of mages, Step four blast him to smithereens with magic on one side and a bunch of tech on the other.

[Hariman]

Step one steal Jyrras's entire arsenal, Step two get people to crew the machines, Step three recruit a ton of mages, Step four blast him to smithereens with magic on one side and a bunch of tech on the other.

Why split the sides? Just put a mix of both on each side, and watch the fireworks!

[Zorro]

My own theory.

Knowledge.

Dark Phoenix is a near God in knowledge. 

His Sister is also a Near God Like teacher.

How I would do it.  Accumulate a Mountain of Knowledge to find his weaknesses.   

Then Attack That.

[Kuzma Volkov]

I still think it's up to Jyrras to capture and imprison him using a mega-laminator.

Capture him in a card and use him in a children's card game while riding motorcycles.

[Titanium Dragon]

I mean, the implication of Biggs and Jyrras's plan is that Jyrras is going to build a gun of some sort that uses magicless bullets to kill him.

I don't know how many guns are around in Furrae, but we know that Jyrras has built a number of them. The creatures may not be prepared for that kind of anarchy.

[Akisohida]

I mean, the implication of Biggs and Jyrras's plan is that Jyrras is going to build a gun of some sort that uses magicless bullets to kill him.

I don't know how many guns are around in Furrae, but we know that Jyrras has built a number of them. The creatures may not be prepared for that kind of anarchy.

Jyrras has built the ONLY guns. Remember that, when he uses one on the adventurers, he thinks to himself 'This is an untested prototype' and 'It could have exploded in my hands'.

Also, Mab does not just kill him because all fey take a role, and Mab's is to be MOSTLY silly.

If she is mostly silly in character, I still wonder how she did the whole 'Use my power to save Pyro' and 'Break Hizell's scrying orb'.

Though, IIRC, she was able to go 'Full Fey' when Pyro begged/asked for her help? Like, maybe that was an exception to her role as 'Carefree Mab'? 'I am carefree and don't have my uber fey powers..UNLESS a good friend asks for my uber fey powers to save them'?

[Kazy]

I honestly think Jyrras is going to build a literal nuke, not a gun. He seemed to have a lot of reservations about what Biggs showed him.

[Tapewolf]

I honestly think Jyrras is going to build a literal nuke, not a gun. He seemed to have a lot of reservations about what Biggs showed him.

That might not actually work - if they're element resistant and can set up force-shields or are naturally proof against regular (magic-imbued) matter, a powerful creature such as a dragon may be able to survive such an attack.  And these are all traits that have been demonstrated in the comic.  Unless he swallows it and it detonates inside his invulnerable hide...?

The trick with the gun is that it fires projectiles of magic-resistant matter, the idea being that it will go straight through magically-reinforced hides and force-shields.   A fragmentation bomb of some kind might work, and I suppose if you could use use magic-resistant materials to cut a hole in him to allow the blast of a low-yield device to vaporise his innards, but a machine-weapon seems a lot simpler and less prone to failure.  You can test that in secret - setting off a nuclear device is a little bit obvious, assuming people don't just put it down to some petty act by the Fae, of course.

I also wonder if the people of Furrae have prior experience with nuclear science.  After all, if they can create matter and extrasensory perception, they may have a firmer grasp of how fundamental matter works than we do.

EDIT: On that note it's interesting to mention that when Abel mentioned the city being turned to glass, Dan's immediate interpretation was that it had been vaporised a'la a nuclear device or asteroid strike.

[keybounce]

Though, IIRC, she was able to go 'Full Fey' when Pyro begged/asked for her help? Like, maybe that was an exception to her role as 'Carefree Mab'? 'I am carefree and don't have my uber fey powers..UNLESS a good friend asks for my uber fey powers to save them'?

I'm pretty sure (From memory) that it was less "I'm doing this because you asked me to", and more "I made a promise that the inn would be safe". As she pointed out, Pyro could have just stepped outside, and the Mab would not have needed to get involved; he was taking advantage of her promise, and he knew it.

[Akisohida]

Though, IIRC, she was able to go 'Full Fey' when Pyro begged/asked for her help? Like, maybe that was an exception to her role as 'Carefree Mab'? 'I am carefree and don't have my uber fey powers..UNLESS a good friend asks for my uber fey powers to save them'?

I'm pretty sure (From memory) that it was less "I'm doing this because you asked me to", and more "I made a promise that the inn would be safe". As she pointed out, Pyro could have just stepped outside, and the Mab would not have needed to get involved; he was taking advantage of her promise, and he knew it.

Thank you for reminding me.

Though it still seems to be a failsafe for her plans...Things that allow her to get her full power back, if only for a small time or single problem. Then, back to being carefree Mab.

[Prroul]

There is nothing in canon that makes a dragon invulnerable to physical damage, just extremely resistant due to scales and magic. The null-magic ammo loaded from... I dunno, maybe a GAU-8 30mm Rotary Autocanon might get his attention. I mean, it can cut an Abrams in half, should do for a dragon. Mount the thing on the Gryph-mech. If that doesn't work, go with Plan B... a.k.a. Macross Missile Massacre. Maybe a plasma cutting beam to the neck.

JyJy has access to sufficient tech to be able to kill a dragon. He has now been given motivation. Hizel's days are going to be numbered. The problem isn't killing Hizel... it is dealing with the aftermath. If a Being kills Hizel... the balance between Beings and Creatures suddenly gets thrown out the window. You've got Creatures who are now waking up to the fact that at least ONE Being is capable of killing things that even HE wouldn't want to mess with, and suddenly goes into genocidal mode to keep them ALL from getting this power. Which then encourages JyJy to build more to give to other beings to protect themselves, and you get into a whole World War scenario, where you've got Beings in Mechs vs Creatures, and extermination for pretty much all innocent bystanders.

[Tapewolf]

There is nothing in canon that makes a dragon invulnerable to physical damage, just extremely resistant due to scales and magic.

"Invulnerable hide" is what the demonology says, though I grant you that might be a little outdated.  I still suspect that dragons are normally only vulnerable in their Being-like form, thinking back to the fight between Abel and Pyroduck, or more recently Hizell's Minion vs Pyroduck.  Or for that matter, M'Chek and Cyra (looks like she had to get him into bed in order to do for him).

The problem isn't killing Hizel... it is dealing with the aftermath. If a Being kills Hizel... the balance between Beings and Creatures suddenly gets thrown out the window. You've got Creatures who are now waking up to the fact that at least ONE Being is capable of killing things that even HE wouldn't want to mess with, and suddenly goes into genocidal mode to keep them ALL from getting this power. Which then encourages JyJy to build more to give to other beings to protect themselves, and you get into a whole World War scenario, where you've got Beings in Mechs vs Creatures, and extermination for pretty much all innocent bystanders.

This is true, but does depend on word getting out.  Jyrras has probably considered this angle, which is most likely one of the reasons he almost turned down Biggs.  The big news would be that Hizell is dead, the who and the how is less important, at least initially.  Jyrras has wisely kept the weapons project secret for the most part.  It may remain secret afterwards.  Even if it doesn't, Jyrras has the production facilities and his friends are nearly all Creatures.  So they're likely to be the recipients of the weapony, for the most part.

[Zorro]

I seriously think like Dark Phoenix.

Being just a Being I have to accumulate the knowledge to accomplish this quest.

I am pretty much dark Phoenix without the UN-Dead Thing At This Point.

[Gabi]

Is there even any actual confirmation on whether he's a Furrae-hatched dragon or not? Someone remind me if there's actually any rules on 'Outer Dragons' listed anywhere, except maybe having to be stuck in certain roles.

There's only one, and it is strongly implied to be Pip.  Not sure that's been confirmed 100%, but it's in the high 90s.

Pip has been seen complaining to Mab about being stuck in that useless form, so I'd say it's pretty much confirmed.[/color]