02/07/2012 [DMFA #1320] Empathy

[justacritic]

One of these three doesn't seem to have it

[Brunhidden]

well you can now see why abel does not look unless there's something he wants to look for.

can you just imagine the graphical images wildy would produce?

[Mao]

I'd rather not. XP

[joshofspam]

I would think in some cases it respect and annoyance might not be the only thing that could be a motivation for putting up mind blocks.

My mind tends to work on a more chaotic cut in paste method of idea's pictures and words. Nothing really matches up until I say something. Even then, it's amazing I can form whole statement at times.

Going along those thoughts, it must be rather hard to read or tolerate a mind that doesn't even come close to the way of thinking and organizing information then the mind reader is ussually  use to.

[Tapewolf]

I'm not sure I'd really want to know what people were thinking anyway.  The emotion sensing would be handy and less intrusive, mind.
I'm not sure I buy the argument about it being a polite gesture if they don't know you're a 'Cubi at all, but I can accept that 'Cubi society would tend to work that way.  And also that not using the powers willy-nilly would be a good way to avoid suspicion of being a Creature.

['what' not 'why']

[Ignuus66]

I'm also guessing that a trained mind can easily create "fake" thoughts to hide out his real ones. Reciting a lawbook while thinking about thoughts he does not want that specific Cubi to know about would be a good way to do it. Also I don't think Cubi would really be able to read the thoughts of a person with ADD (like me) or schizophrenia (I guess ADHD would be even harder) But can you imagine a Cubi Trying to read the mind of someone who has both?

[Lurkie]

I'm not sure I'd really want to know why people were thinking anyway.

To say nothing of the chaotic mish-mash of thoughts and emotions when around a group of people.  That could lead to a headache of monumental proportions.  But Dan has already learned that lesson.    (BTW, I like Dan's shielding instructor.  Was her name ever mentioned?  It's so rude to call someone "Hey, You!".  )

It says something about how 'Cubi are viewed by non-'Cubi that both Jyrras and Wildy simply assume that Abel is listening to their thoughts, even though he isn't.  (At least, not that I could tell.)

[MT Hazard]

I like the way Amber has crossed over the two story lines. I'm guessing while this will serve as a scene transition, it also allows both story lines to continue at once. The 'Abel and co'  storyline provides relevant context  for the information provided by the teacher in the 'SAIA' storyline.

(Now, how much of that made sense?)

[VAE]

Meh, it'd be a good power. After all, the people are thinking the same shit whether you know it or not, and if you do, at least you know rather than have to guess.

[KiloFoxx]

i think plain indifference could be a factor. Abel has no real need to listen in on their thoughts... so he likely just dosn't care at the moment...

and i think i'd be pretty hard to mind-read. most of my actual thoughts get drowned out by me also thinking about surrounding noise. or a song in my head. on top of possible ADHD and schitzophrenia... or my mind is just, blank. i'm pretty good at having no thoughts at all and still doing crap.

[Tapewolf]

Meh, it'd be a good power. After all, the people are thinking the same shit whether you know it or not, and if you do, at least you know rather than have to guess.

Thing is, someone is more likely to think something rude about you than to say it, even among friends and loved ones (even friends and loved ones have disagreements, after all!).  The ability to hear that along with impulsiveness and poor emotional control sounds like a really dangerous combination.

[joshofspam]

Meh, it'd be a good power. After all, the people are thinking the same shit whether you know it or not, and if you do, at least you know rather than have to guess.

Thing is, someone is more likely to think something rude about you than to say it, even among friends and loved ones (even friends and loved ones have disagreements, after all!).  The ability to hear that along with impulsiveness and poor emotional control sounds like a really dangerous combination.

Not to mention if we use some people as an example some thoughts and feeling are impulsive and fleeting.

To completely judge people on the surface thoughts could be rather misleading to a cubi and could lead to similar problems like this teacher is speaking to Dan about keeping out of trolling troll minds.

[KiloFoxx]

wait would that mean it'd be possible to emotion jammer cubi with thoughts like they can with emotions?

[Ignuus66]

wait would that mean it'd be possible to emotion jammer cubi with thoughts like they can with emotions?

I think that might be possible but VERY difficult to achieve. Imagine the positives though, you can basically feed a Cubi false information, and that would REALLY come in handy in a fight.

[ChaosMageX]

Once again I find myself wondering if Wildy truly is a sociopath by the clinical definition of Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Also, I wonder how a Cubi would deal with having Autism.  Coming into their Cubi traits would probably be a nightmare for them, but I think that eventually they'd be better at ignoring the thoughts and emotions without even having to set up a mind shield, unless they hyper-focused on it.

[joshofspam]

I like how this page kind of feeds into all those other times involving psychic powers.

Like Dan trying to promt his mom disguised as Biggs with a question of where his mom was. The end result was hilarious.

There's also the time he got to see Aary naked through the mind of Merlitz and Jyrras.

Really, this comic is filled with examples of why it's sometimes a useful tool to be able to read peoples mind. But it isn't something you'd probably want to use all the time and without proper training in how to use it.

[Plotting]

My favourite part of this comic page is the way it implies that Abel sees Wildy as merely an annoyance.

On the topic of empathy and thought reading, while the ability to read thoughts would be extremely useful in certain contexts, it would also be fraught with dangers.

For example, what if the person whose thoughts a Cubi is reading is not able to differentiate between reality and fantasy? Or what if someone is able to mentally mix real facts and bullshit to the point where you cannot tell where the real facts end and the lies begin?

Just because someone is thinking/feeling something does not mean it is true. And simply reading thoughts or feeling someone else's emotions would not be enough - a Cubi would likely need to verify the information obtained from mind reading/empathy by what would essentially be the more commonly used means of intelligence gathering.

[Nino]

I like the way Amber has crossed over the two story lines. I'm guessing while this will serve as a scene transition, it also allows both story lines to continue at once. The 'Abel and co'  storyline provides relevant context  for the information provided by the teacher in the 'SAIA' storyline.

I know, I was just thinking that - I think this is the first time she's ever told the story in this way, and it's really a great technique and well-utilized here.

I would hope that if Abel really understand Wildy and how her motivations are ostensibly a little less selfless than her snarky demeanor would let on that he'd have at least a little respect for her, but I can understand how he's getting an incomplete picture of her at the moment, with her being so upfront and nosy to him in the recent past and without him understanding the purpose of that.

[justacritic]

I like the way Amber has crossed over the two story lines. I'm guessing while this will serve as a scene transition, it also allows both story lines to continue at once. The 'Abel and co'  storyline provides relevant context  for the information provided by the teacher in the 'SAIA' storyline.

I know, I was just thinking that - I think this is the first time she's ever told the story in this way, and it's really a great technique and well-utilized here.

I would hope that if Abel really understand Wildy and how her motivations are ostensibly a little less selfless than her snarky demeanor would let on that he'd have at least a little respect for her, but I can understand how he's getting an incomplete picture of her at the moment, with her being so upfront and nosy to him in the recent past and without him understanding the purpose of that.

She does care about her friends and family on her own twisted terms, kinda like how some Creatures act apparently..

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

She does care about her friends and family on her own twisted terms, kinda like how some Creatures act apparently..

I for one still think she's a Were, so it's quite possible she is a Creature.

[Grey Wolf]

Once again I find myself wondering if Wildy truly is a sociopath by the clinical definition of Antisocial Personality Disorder.

I don't think so. Sociopathy is an extremely rare disorder, and very severe. Some psychologists have even gone so far to suggest that sociopaths are emotionally incapable of any form of love (which I'm pretty sure I don't buy into; that would basically be saying the same thing as 'sociopaths don't have souls'). I think it more likely that their emotional capacity is similar to that of a small child. A small child is capable of feeling love, but is rarely capable of selfless action.

It's more probable that Wildy comes from a society where affection is displayed differently. She's shown herself to be very protective of her friends, if much more 'rough and tumble' when it comes to interacting with them. I think respect and fondness may also be displayed differently. She seems to like Abel, but she tested him before deciding he was worthy of pursuing Jyrras.
Her moral system also appears to be different, and physical violence seems to be an acceptable response to a perceived slight (while psychological 'warfare' may be considered below the belt). Biggs's similar mindset leads me to believe this may be a part of their culture.

TL;DR: I think Wildy is more complicated than that.

Also, I wonder how a Cubi would deal with having Autism.  Coming into their Cubi traits would probably be a nightmare for them, but I think that eventually they'd be better at ignoring the thoughts and emotions without even having to set up a mind shield, unless they hyper-focused on it.

Ignoring others' emotions? For me, it's more of an inability to perceive another person's emotions through subtle cues that most other people understand. This is not to be confused with apathy or a lack or respect for the feelings of others. If someone is mad/sad/anxious/disappointed/etc, they either have to openly display obvious signs of these emotions (something frowned upon in many societies), or tell me. I can't do subtly or double-talk.
If anything, an autistic cubi may find emotion-reading a handy tool.

[KiloFoxx]

For example, what if the person whose thoughts a Cubi is reading is not able to differentiate between reality and fantasy? Or what if someone is able to mentally mix real facts and bullshit to the point where you cannot tell where the real facts end and the lies begin?

Just because someone is thinking/feeling something does not mean it is true. And simply reading thoughts or feeling someone else’s emotions would not be enough - a Cubi would likely need to verify the information obtained from mind reading/empathy by what would essentially be the more commonly used means of intelligence gathering.

this is actually how pathological liars lie so convincingly. the first step is actually to convince YOURSELF then the lie you're telling is true. they can be so deluded by their lies that to them, it's truth. making it very hard to spot the lie. (it can even fool a polygraph.) throw on top of that inability to differenciate reality from fantasy and you've got one helluva jumbled mind to sift through.

yeah and that's also the trick to telling a convincing lie... you have to believe it yourself first. (it's harder than it sounds, and if people ever find out, they suspect everything you say is a lie so it's a bad thing to do most of the time)

[TacticalError]

For example, what if the person whose thoughts a Cubi is reading is not able to differentiate between reality and fantasy? Or what if someone is able to mentally mix real facts and bullshit to the point where you cannot tell where the real facts end and the lies begin?

...That would be so much fun to use during an interrogation. Of course, if you managed to get caught and put in that situation you may want to divert your thoughts to other ends, but it it would be amusing to watch the interrogator get steadily confused.

[MT Hazard]

I find that strip 1158 is the best example of Wildy actually being able to care for, maybe even love another person.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

(it can even fool a polygraph.)

... you say that as if fooling a polygraph is difficult, unexpected, or even, possibly, unusual.

Whilst they have their place, they're by no means as infallible as they're shown in various fictional settings. Figuring out how to spoof them is trivial in concept; execution of the concept is somewhat more difficult, but not exceptionally so. Given a little practice, it should be achievable by pretty much anyone.


And, of course, if you're sufficiently insane, you can beat one anytime, merely by screwing with the responses it gets.

[Brunhidden]

(it can even fool a polygraph.)

... you say that as if fooling a polygraph is difficult, unexpected, or even, possibly, unusual.

according to the very knowledgeable penn jelette the key to a polygraph is to flex your sphincter. by doing this you can get both false positives and false negatives at will. so i guess that people with poor control of their own anus can be reliably tested?