Command & Conquer - Kane LIVES!!

[Cvstos]

The forum seems to be mainly focused on console games, so I don't know how many people know of the series, but I'm a huge Command & Conquer addict, and I'm a fan of real-time strategy in general.  C&C is easily my favorite game series ever, and I was wondering if anyone else here had played / enjoyed any of the games in the series.

My favorite game of all time is the original C&C: Red Alert.  I would always have a study hall back in high school, so I'd get my homework done before I even got home.  When I did get home, I'd turn on the radio and start making skirmish maps, and then play on them. 

Lately, though, I've been playing Generals.  While I look back on the originals fondly, the interface improvements made in the later games make playing the older ones more difficult.  Generals has been controversial in the community, and is considered the weakest of the C&C RTS games (outside Sole Survivor, which was really pointless and was rightly not included in the C&C First Decade pack).  That being said, the underlying engine is extremely mod-able.  Hunt around a bit and you'll find some fantastic mods out there, many that are better than the normal game itself.  Personally, I'm hooked on the Shockwave mod.

Since I don't know how many people here are familiar with the series, I'll include some of the basic premises.  The idea behind Generals was a more-or-less near-future setting, with three sides being the USA, China, and GLA (Global Liberation Front, think al-Qaeda).  Zero Hour (the expansion pack to Generals) expanded and improved the game greatly.  It introduced the idea of having modifications to the normal sides in the form of, well, Generals.  Each General has a unique strategy, advantages, and disadvantages.  The Shockwave mod (the one I play) expands on this and further specializes each General.  (The details below are true in Shockwave, and the general aspects are true in vanilla Zero Hour.)

As an example, the USA Superweapons General Alexander has a nasty anti-armor defensive structure (EMP Patriot - shuts down enemy vehicles, forcing them to sit there and take damage, and kills planes very quickly) that allows her to "turtle" inside her base and build cheap particle cannons (the USA Superweapon), and then blast her enemies off the map while staying safely inside her base.

The Chinese Nuclear General Tao uses nukes and radiation in everything.  His tanks?  Nuclear powered with DU (depleted uranium) shells that leave radiation on the map.  His anti-tank infantry?  Yeah, its weapon leaves radiation.  His MiG?  Can be upgraded to carry a tactical nuke.  In Shockwave he's even got an infantry-frying radiation-spewing tank. 
There are nine generals in all, plus the three vanilla sides.  The Shockwave mod will add three generals in later versions.  (Be advised, game mods null and void the ESRB rating.) 

The next game in the series will be Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars, and will continue the story from the original Command & Conquer and C&C: Tiberian Sun.  For those unfamiliar, here's the basics of the story:

In the not terribly distant future, a giant space rock is going to crash to earth, and bring with it a new substance: Tiberium.  This nasty green crystal absorbs valuable minerals from the soil, making the crystal itself very valuable.  But, it's also radioactive and toxic to life on earth.  And it spreads.  It literally turns everything it touches into more Tiberium.  Some things are more resistant to the change than others, but ultimately everything that touches tiberium turns into more of it.  As you can imagine, you don't want to get any on you.  Else you'll end up like this poor guy: http://www.cncworld.org/cutenews/data/upimages/cnc3_tiberium_infected.jpg

Anyway, thanks to this new substance and source of income, a particular organization called the Brotherhood of Nod comes to power in many third world countries.  They believe that Tiberium is the key to the next step of human evolution and life on earth, and seek to hasten it's spread.  They're also quite brutal, with the extremely charismatic and evil/misunderstood bald guy named Kane as their leader and messiah.  (Wiki link, contains spoilers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kane_(Command_&_Conquer) )  They start causing hell, and GDI is formed to stop them.  The Global Defense Initiative is a coalition of first-world nations  aimed at holding back (yet still using) Tiberium, and the Brotherhood of Nod.  The rest of the story you can hunt down on Wikipedia and fan sites to avoid spoilers here. 

C&C 3 looks to be shaping up very well, and EA has shown it's listening to the fans by responding quickly to positive and negative inputs and requests.  For example, the look of Tiberium in C&C 3 was quickly changed after a significant outcry from fans.  (It now looks much better.)  EA also recently released an SDK for the Generals and Battle for Middle Earth engines to help modders.  That engine also powers C&C 3, though it is enhanced significantly, so the SDK will likely be updated for the new game on its release.  As you might imagine, I'm very much excited about this game, and will be purchasing it on the day of its release.  Those who attempt to stop me will most likely not survive.  IN THE NAME OF KANE!   

Anyone else here a fan of Command & Conquer?

[xHaZxMaTx]

I can't be bothered reading that and will just say that C&C RA, RA2, Generals, and Generals: Zero Hour are all fun, but I do not play online anymore, unfortunately.

[ITOS]

Generals was my first RTS, now I play EaW. Even if space combat is nice (especially with mods, ph34r my SSD ) the ground combat is not as fun as C&C. I could spend hours in C&C building cool bases, here they are already placed out.

Good thing some modders are fixing that (even if lucasarts claims the engine can't do it ).

[Arcalane]

Actually, not only does Alex get the Cheese-Patriot, but her Particle Cannon is, if I remember rightly, pink, and it lasts longer and does more damage. Also, her power plants, when upgraded, have blue rods, not green, and generate twice as much power as any other General's.

Townes rocks, however. He is, AFAIK, the only American General who can beat the American USAF General with his ubercheesy defense lasers. Since Granger (USAF Gen) has enhanced aircraft, cloaking commanches and much more, including a very rapid-fire pinkish point defense laser (ala the Paladin) for all his aircraft, only the Chinese Gatling Cannons, GLA Flaktracks and Townes` Laser Cannon Turrets stand a chance of taking down his King Raptors, Stealth Fighters, etcetera.

Which is fun, because Granger really gets his knickers in a twist on Challenge Mode when you keep shooting down his jets.

And let's not forget using the lovely, lovely Warthogs (A-10 Thunderbolts) and Spectre Gunships on him. That really pisses him off too.

~~

That, and Townes` Laser Turrets are awesome. Did I mention they have a three-burst laser that can instakill infantry? Beats the socks off standard Patriots any day!

[Cvstos]

In Shockwave, there are a couple other Generals with some power plants that produce a lot more power than the standard 10 units.  Townes (Laser) and Tao (Nuke).  However, no one can match the Superweapons General for per-plant power.

Townes is arguably the best against Granger.  Watch out for his Hyper-Sonic Auroras, though!  (Shockwave unit) Two of them is all it takes to knock out a laser turret, and their attack run cannot be stopped by anything save a lucky superweapon strike.  If Granger spams a decent number of HS-Auroras, you could quickly find yourself without a defensive line!  Also, in Shockwave Granger gets an upgraded Patriot that's actually good against infantry and does a great deal of damage to armor and aircraft.

I'm excited about the new Generals that Shockwave will add in the future.  GLA Salvage, China Special Weapons (a non-cheesy version of Leang), and USA Armor. 

[Supercheese]

USA Armor. 

Oh, could it be finally a USA comparable Tank General?

Generals is awesome, but the only mod I was ever interested in was a funky Star Wars one that ended up crashing my game nearly instantly. I've been turned off to mods ever since... perhaps I should rethink my position?

Red Alerts 1 & 2 were really fun! I loved Yuri mind control, Kirov Airships, prism tanks, etc. fron 2 and MiGs, chrono tanks, mammoth tanks, and tesla anything from 1. Oh, and Tanya kicks Colonel Burton's ass.

I never liked Tiberian Sun, I thought it sucked pretty bad, but that's just one guy's opinion.

I can never decide who I like better in Generals. I love the China mass-tank rush, Granger's Air Force of DOOM, Super Particle Cannos and EMP Patriots, and Nuke-fests. I'm not a GLA fan, though, that much I can figure out.

Question: can you play Generals online with mods?

[Cvstos]

Yes, you can play online with mods, though most mods will require Zero Hour 1.04 as it's easiest to mod.  Also, whoever is playing with you must have the exact same mod.

Tanys does indeed kick Burton's sorry ass all over the place.    And, yes, the USA Armor General Ironside is the USA's Tank General.    He, Leang, and Deathstrike were planned for the original ZH release but pulled to save time.  Shockwave is bringing them back, and making them as good as the other sides.  www.shockwavemod.com 

Exactly what tanks Ironside will have has not yet been released.

[Supercheese]

Well, I don't profess to have a shortage of games to play, but now you've piqued my interest. I've got to try this...

*is lazy and doesn't want to read the official site* Any news as to when the next version of the mod will be released?

[Cvstos]

Shockwave .93 will be released "when it's done", and .95, which will have the new generals, will be released sometime after that, also "when it's done".

CNC Den has posted some new C&C 3 screenshots!

http://www.cncden.com/cnc3_screens/cc3_aug20-3.jpg  Some GDI Tanks in a Red Zone (Tiberium wasteland)
http://www.cncden.com/cnc3_screens/cc3_aug20-1.jpg  Small GDI base

Look at the eye candy!  The shadows and lighting have been dramatically improved from Generals, and I'm pretty sure HDR has been added.  At least it looks like it's been added, to me, anyway.

[Paladin Sheppard]

I've played EVERY C&C game that has come out and I'm in love with em all. I can't wait for C&C 3 I hear they are bringing back live action FMV...

[Arcalane]

I've played EVERY C&C game that has come out and I'm in love with em all. I can't wait for C&C 3 I hear they are bringing back live action FMV...

Technically, Generals has some "live action" stuff, but not quite as much as the original C&Cs.

~~

As for Leang, she is[/i] in the game. She is the final, 10th General on General's Challenge Mode. I think there's one mod that switches her with Ironside, who is a very insulting person, if I remember rightly.

Still, my bets for Ironside are for tougher tanks/vehicles, probably free Paladin, and almost certainly some kind of heavy tank, Overlord or Mammoth-esque. And maybe the old Leopard (that was going to be the Crusader) that you could upgrade with hover mode. Probably not going to have aircraft, except perhaps the Warthog special.

[Cvstos]

Leang was in the game but she was a lame boss that used units from all three sides.  Shockwave is updating her to a real side, and adding Ironside and Deathstrike.  Granger's Leopard is being replaced with the Sheridan M551-A2 (not the vietnam one, but a much updated tank that shares the name).

Real FMV will be used for C&C 3, as I understand it. 

[Arcalane]

Leang was in the game but she was a lame boss that used units from all three sides.

That's just what I said!

And yes, Leang was cheesy. But not quite as cheesy as capturing all three faction HQs and building everything yourself.

I don't exactly remember what she got, but I think most of her units were Chinese (with the exception of one or two). Notable changes were Patriots, Bunkers AND Underground Tunnels, if I remember rightly. Not that I do very often.

[Cvstos]

Yep, she had all those, rocket buggys, Avengers, USA Dozers, and a bunch of other assorted units from all sides.  Shockwave is going to make her real, including really long range artillery.  Personally I can't wait for Ironside. 

With Leang I usually gradually move forward until I secure my side of the bridge (the ONLY way out of her base), and then build a ton of superweapons and roast her from afar.  Moving in is difficult because there are defenses and units all over her base.  Let her eat a particle cannon sandwhich first.

[Azlan]

I do look forward to Tiberium Wars.  I never played past Tiberium Dawn, or whatever C&C 2 was.  I have Generals and Zero Hour, but never got into playing it and I have not played Red Alert 2.

[thegayhare]

I loved red alert, and RA2, and yuri's revenge (Virus snipers are such a nasty idea, I love them)

Generals was cool

but you know I rather liked C&C Commando too

Sure it's a FPS but I think it was the first FPS thatlet you drive vehicals, and it has lots of the buildings and structurs from the C&C rts

[Supercheese]

Renegade was cool enough, if a tad confusing at times. Amazing how much damage those mammoth tanks do even compared to demo. packs...

[Drake Manaweilder]

I've played Tiberium Sun, it's expansion(cant remember the name), a demo of generals, but my fave is Red Alert 2s expantion: Yuris revenge. Can't put my finger on why though..

[Manawolf]

Stealing Yuri's buildings and then using his own units to take over the rest of the map?

[Shadrok]

I've only played C&C (the playstation version), Red Alert 2 (PC and Playstation versions) and Generals. I liked Red Alert 2's map builder for it's ability to build quick maps, currently figuring out how to do more in the builder for Generals.

Just goofing around in the game.

Ghostbusters 

[Supercheese]

"Perhaps I shouldn't have gotten my degree from a mail-order college..."

[Cvstos]

LOL!  Good pic!  Oh, and Thrax (Toxin General) is easily the funniest in the whole damn game.  "Perhaps I have inhaled too many of my own toxins!  You can't possibly be beating me!"  "You destroyed my command center!  Oh well, I always hated my commanders anyway!"

General Tao (Nuclear Gen) isn't bad, either.  "Time to put on your lead underwear!"

[Arcalane]

LOL!  Good pic!  Oh, and Thrax (Toxin General) is easily the funniest in the whole damn game.  "Perhaps I have inhaled too many of my own toxins!  You can't possibly be beating me!"  "You destroyed my command center!  Oh well, I always hated my commanders anyway!"

General Tao (Nuclear Gen) isn't bad, either.  "Time to put on your lead underwear!"

Tao just got hilariously pissy whenever you blew up one of his nuke silos though. I used Aurora strikes to take them all out. I very nearly got nuked if it weren't for some good timing. D:

EDIT:

Here's all the C&C Games I know of;

Tiberian Dawn (C&C 95, the first)
Red Alert
Red Alert's Expansions (I forget the names)
Tiberian Sun
Tiberian Sun: FIRESTORM
Red Alert 2
RA2: Yuri's Revenge
Renegade (the popular but outdated FPS - "You're taking on the entire crew by yourself?" "Yep. It just ain't fair, is it? Maybe I should fight left-handed...")
Generals
Generals: Zero Hour

And, of course, pending the newest one, C&C3: Tiberium Wars.

I think Generals` "Dozer" system was a good step away from the norm, myself.

[Drake Manaweilder]

Stealing Yuri's buildings and then using his own units to take over the rest of the map?

Great minds think alike, however, it's something else.  It's been about 2 years sence i've played it so I can't really remember.

[Cvstos]

Here are all the C&C PC Games in the order of release:

C&C 1: Tiberian Dawn
     C&C 1: Covert Ops Expansion

C&C Red Alert 1
     C&C Red Alert 1: Counterstrike Expansion
     C&C Red Alert 1: Aftermath Expansion

C&C Tiberian Sun
     C&C Tiberian Sun: Firestorm Expansion

C&C Renegade

C&C Red Alert 2
     C&C Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge Expansion

C&C Generals
     C&C Generals: Zero Hour Expansion

There was also "C&C Sole Survivor", an online-only title that, well, stunk.  It's why the First Decade (which has all the games listed above for $40 on one DVD) pack didn't even include it.

Supposedly C&C 3: Tiberium Wars will have a system that includes the best parts of the interfaces from previous C&C titles and Generals.  The MCV is returning, but... exactly how it'll all work is as yet unknown.

KANE LIVES!!!!

It was revealed today that Joe Kucan will be reprising his role as the charismatic leader of the Brotherhood of Nod: Kane.  The C&C community is rejoicing today!  Kane LIVES!!

In addition, new in-game movies of the game were released, and things look fantastic and include Nod units and structures!  (Nod's new overall look was revealed, and it's awesome.  VERY fitting.) 

GameSpy Preview: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/command-conquer-3-tiberium-wars/727510p1.html
IGN Media Page with videos!  http://media.pc.ign.com/media/823/823989/vids_1.html
Official C&C 3 website: http://www.ea.com/cc/tiberium/
CNC Den Movies: Top one is currently the Kane reveal, with both normal and high res versions available (QuickTime 7 recommended)  http://cncden.com/cnc3_videos.shtml

I've never seen a C&C game look so great or play so smoothly.  This is going to rock!

Apparently the MCV and building system is just like earlier titles, although without the "grid", as everything can be placed with pixel precision.  You've got an available range to work with that extends from existing buildings. 

The sidebar looks awesome, dynamic, and translucent.  The bottom-right is context-sensitive to what you click on, too, so that element is added to the classic sidebar.  See the IGN video interview for more, it's on the IGN page I linked to above.

[Supercheese]

I really liked the Generals interface and building style... too bad they're going back to the original. Did they at least keep the cool building construction sound from the Red Alert games (and I think the original C&C)?

[Cvstos]

Near as I can tell, it looks/sounds a bit like Tiberian Sun and RA2.  However, I've also learned that C&C 3 will likely have a built in editor and mod making tool, so such things should be EASILY changable, and modders will go nuts with this one.

It looks like it borrows heavily off RA2, so you should be able to do something like build a defensive structure and main base structure at the same time.

[ITOS]

C&C: Generals: Zero Hour: Halogen.

Worth to check out in my opinion.

[Azlan]

Kane cannot live... we ate him...

What did you expect the Nod troops to do?  Tiberium mining, storage, weapons and vehicle manufactoring... there isn't a single palce to put the chow hall!

Long live Nod... *burp*

[Arcalane]

One would think the Barracks included the Mess Hall. I know they did in Renegade.