05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all

[VAE]

So the spell was really a backlash from massive soul energy release.
I wonder if this could actually be weaponised... something for Jayhawk Cybernetics to look into , i guess - SoulNuke

Also.. a good answer to anyone thinking dragons are the better alternative to cubi.. they are sortta.. bad and worse, well, from a being outlook.

[terrycloth]

Well, that depends on whether anything else normally happens to your soul after you die. If you just evaporate or something then why *not* get eaten by a dragon?

[VAE]

Hee... hee...
I actually made up a cult (for DnDMFA purposes) based on that about a week ago.
Basically, they revere True Death since they believe souls are eternally tortured and their suffering feeds some nasty extradimensional entity.

[RandomMetaphysics]

Wow. Just... wow. This update sucker-punched me. Cyra didn't intend to destroy Hishaan at all...

However, two questions just popped into my head:
One) When Cyra defeated M'Chek, did she also claim the souls of Hishaan's current residents in the process?
Two) Were the people aware of what would occur when one of them died within the city?

[Aadarm]

Cyra wasn't in the wrong here. Though wiping out cities is bad for the image...

[Blackwolf359]

I believe the Cubi motto is something like "It seemed like a good idea at the time..."

It seems to apply here...

[Galis]

Cyra wasn't in the wrong here. Though wiping out cities is bad for the image...

Except for the part where she decided to murder a sentient being and their entire family purely for personal power?

A being whom at the time she believed was protecting other people, no less.  She did not go to that city to liberate it or help anyone but herself.

I'm sure that's what she means by "not devoid of cruel intent."  Had she known what M'Chek was up to, then she would have had a noble cause.  Instead, she came to the city with selfish murderous purpose.

[AxiLarin]

Wow. Just... wow. This update sucker-punched me. Cyra didn't intend to destroy Hishaan at all...

However, two questions just popped into my head:
One) When Cyra defeated M'Chek, did she also claim the souls of Hishaan's current residents in the process?
Two) Were the people aware of what would occur when one of them died within the city?

1) She wasn't out to harvest souls, so I'm thinking no.
2)  That's interesting.  Was there a pact/agreement between M'Chek and the people of the town that spelled this out?  Like, "Alright, I'll protect your city from all hostile forces.  In return, I get your souls when you die."  "Sounds fair, Mr. intimidating dragon."
But this leads me to question 3:  Were the people aware that if something should happen to M'Chek, they'd be hosed?

[LoneHowler]

So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future

[VAE]

Cyra wasn't in the wrong here. Though wiping out cities is bad for the image...

Except for the part where she decided to murder a sentient being and their entire family purely for personal power?

A being whom at the time she believed was protecting other people, no less.  She did not go to that city to liberate it or help anyone but herself.

I'm sure that's what she means by "not devoid of cruel intent."  Had she known what M'Chek was up to, then she would have had a noble cause.  Instead, she came to the city with selfish murderous purpose.

Am under the impression it's the result that matters most.
Well, not like it ended great for the citizens , either

[Maark30]

So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future

That sounds like a fair idea except the Phoenix seem to like her and to devour a Phoenix soul would cut their number down (since there is a set number of Phoenix and each ones soul is reborn as itself when they die)  which is something I don't think has ever happened to them. 

But Amber can prove me very wrong. 

[Alphonse]

So she didn't turn everyone into glass on pourpose, fasinating...

Also.. is Abel smiling?

[Tapewolf]

Well, that depends on whether anything else normally happens to your soul after you die. If you just evaporate or something then why *not* get eaten by a dragon?

There does seem to be some kind of after-existence.  That's not to rule out the possibility that souls eventually decay, but it is possible to resurrect people for some time after they have died - the undead, for example, or Dark Pegasus.

1) She wasn't out to harvest souls, so I'm thinking no.
2)  That's interesting.  Was there a pact/agreement between M'Chek and the people of the town that spelled this out?  Like, "Alright, I'll protect your city from all hostile forces.  In return, I get your souls when you die."  "Sounds fair, Mr. intimidating dragon."

Actually it rather looks like she was out to harvest M'Chek's soul.  But as for whether the citizens knew, I would suggest not.  Cyra is surely not going to have taken on a dragon-run city without some form of reconnaissance, or without ever having visited the city before.  If the citizens were consciously aware of their fate, she would surely have known in their minds.

EDIT: And I find it a little difficult that his children would willingly agree to be eaten by daddy.

So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future

I think that like the Fae, they don't have souls in the conventional sense.

[Feather Dancer]

Whoops.

So the bugger pulled a trap card basically didn't he? Even in death throes.

[VAE]

Well, that depends on whether anything else normally happens to your soul after you die. If you just evaporate or something then why *not* get eaten by a dragon?

There does seem to be some kind of after-existence.  That's not to rule out the possibility that souls eventually decay, but it is possible to resurrect people for some time after they have died - the undead, for example, or Dark Pegasus.

Not entirely sure there, Tape.
With undead, it looks to me as if the soul never leaves the body - the transformation happens immediately after death. (alternately , that they work without one, though that i  don't think is the case - something makes me think it was explicitly said they have one)
As for DP... well, his body seems crucial in the process.. maybe it fixates his soul somehow, bringing us back to the above point. After all it was said a bunch of times cremating him would have ended it.

[Tapewolf]

With undead, it looks to me as if the soul never leaves the body - the transformation happens immediately after death. (alternately , that they work without one, though that i  don't think is the case - something makes me think it was explicitly said they have one)

They do.  DP did something to Hannah's to prevent her being resurrected, if you remember Amber's comment at the time.  And that was aside from cremating her.  Interestingly, Shanna referred to this as "her soul has gone on," as opposed to destroyed or whatever.  That implies some kind of multi-tiered afterlife to me, but I'm just guessing.

As for DP... well, his body seems crucial in the process.. maybe it fixates his soul somehow, bringing us back to the above point. After all it was said a bunch of times cremating him would have ended it.

That we cannot guess at.  DP would have required some kind of body anyway.  Someone like him might not be too pleased to be brought back in the body of a street urchin or someone else who would not be missed if they disappeared.

[VAE]

With undead, it looks to me as if the soul never leaves the body - the transformation happens immediately after death. (alternately , that they work without one, though that i  don't think is the case - something makes me think it was explicitly said they have one)

They do.  DP did something to Hannah's to prevent her being resurrected, if you remember Amber's comment at the time.  And that was aside from cremating her.  Interestingly, Shanna referred to this as "her soul has gone on," as opposed to destroyed or whatever.  That implies some kind of multi-tiered afterlife to me, but I'm just guessing.

True, the "moved on" bit suggests an afterlife etc.
Makes me wonder about Devin.... i mean, his joints etc. are replaced... it is a possibility he got ressurected/zombified a fair bit of time after his physical death.
But then , if undead lack souls. it's irrelevant.

As for DP... well, his body seems crucial in the process.. maybe it fixates his soul somehow, bringing us back to the above point. After all it was said a bunch of times cremating him would have ended it.

That we cannot guess at.  DP would have required some kind of body anyway.  Someone like him might not be too pleased to be brought back in the body of a street urchin or someone else who would not be missed if they disappeared.

Heh... especially if the powers weren't kept ( i assume they come from the body.. like when Keaton or Dorcan or Seth got into androids), it'd be a pretty crappy life extension.
I guess it's my DnD bias showing... there ressurection spells either require a body explicitly as an ingredient,  or can make one up, the stronger ones.

[Tapewolf]

Makes me wonder about Devin.... i mean, his joints etc. are replaced... it is a possibility he got ressurected/zombified a fair bit of time after his physical death.
But then , if undead lack souls. it's irrelevant.

Ah, now that is a good point.  What happened when DP did his magic trick was that undead which formerly did not have souls suddenly got them.  In Devin's case it's not clear whether he ended up with his own damaged soul or a brand new one.  So while the original models were just animated flesh, current undead certainly do have souls.

I guess it's my DnD bias showing... there ressurection spells either require a body explicitly as an ingredient,  or can make one up, the stronger ones.

That may also be possible in Furrae, we don't know.  All we know for sure is that the spell DP uses needs one.

[Mao]

Avoiding the obvious plot bomb that was just dropped and the ever present question of if it makes Cyra evil or not, I have to say I may not like Abel much (and likely never will) but I do enjoy his role as a foil to Dan.  I like Dan.  Honestly and truly do, but he needs something to ground him in the present reality sometimes.  Abel achieves this quite well with his remarks and presence.

Also Vae, Danman or whatever it is you're going by at the moment: Tape has his own forum if you'd rather discuss the possible implications this has on his continuity and characters.  I'm sure you're already quite familiar with it.  ;-]

[LordViking]

Kodos to those that predicted she wanted to become the city's new protector, have a cookie.

The image, while not historically accurate, shows Cyra as a Tri-Wing which could mean she became a Tri-Wing before attacking the city. However that means that it was not this action that made her ascend but something still unknown, possibly even to the other cubi as her clan leader page says that her means of ascension is what started the Dragon-Cubi war while the attack on Hishaan is referred to the same way.

So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future

As mentioned, Phoenix souls are probably a bit like Fae souls as they have a fixed number and are reborn constantly. It could have been a Mythos or a Gryphon B/C though. But we are assuming here that the wing-heads resemble the heads of the creature (race or individual) whose soul was sucked. Has it been stated somewhere soul sucking was the only way to attain Tri-Wing status? What of those that became Tri-Wing without sucking out a soul, do they not have wing-heads? (There is at least one living Tri-Wing without wing-heads.)
And what about Zezzuva and her clan? Do her wing-heads resemble her sister? That must be all kinds of awkward if not downright creepy.

[Mao]

Kodos to those that predicted she wanted to become the city's new protector

Kudos, actually.  I don't think people would want a kodo.  Or maybe they would.. they are kinda cool.

The image, while not historically accurate, shows Cyra as a Tri-Wing which could mean she became a Tri-Wing before attacking the city. However that means that it was not this action that made her ascend but something still unknown, possibly even to the other cubi as her clan leader page says that her means of ascension is what started the Dragon-Cubi war while the attack on Hishaan is referred to the same way.

Not necessarily historically accurate, but to me it seems like a rendition of Cyra standing over M'Chek in victory.  If the backlash from his defeat is what made her a Tri-wing it would be accurate.  Hard to tell, really.

One other niggling point, and one that might not be of any consequence, but her clan leader page only says that others agree that it was her ascension that caused the war.  It does seem likely at this point, but the question I'd want answered before I agreed to it being the case 100% is "Do they have all of the facts?"  I'm sure I can get a large group of people to agree to anything if I doctor the facts to their liking and just make it plausible enough for them.  Doesn't mean that what I've told them is true or complete.  I'm not going to scream to the high heavens or debate the point, but the wording is just enough to give me a moments pause.

So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future

As mentioned, Phoenix souls are probably a bit like Fae souls as they have a fixed number and are reborn constantly. It could have been a Mythos or a Gryphon B/C though. But we are assuming here that the wing-heads resemble the heads of the creature (race or individual) whose soul was sucked. Has it been stated somewhere soul sucking was the only way to attain Tri-Wing status? What of those that became Tri-Wing without sucking out a soul, do they not have wing-heads? (There is at least one living Tri-Wing without wing-heads.)
And what about Zezzuva and her clan? Do her wing-heads resemble her sister? That must be all kinds of awkward if not downright creepy.

To say the least.  I don't recall anything anywhere about the tentacle heads matching up with the power(s) that are used to fuel an ascension, but it's a neat idea. Nothing to really back that up, sadly.

[Turnsky]

To say the least.  I don't recall anything anywhere about the tentacle heads matching up with the power(s) that are used to fuel an ascension, but it's a neat idea. Nothing to really back that up, sadly.

it'd look like a scene from "the thing" one would think. 

[Wurgel]

Taking Cyras description as pure truth, i see just 2 ways:

1: She was a tri-wing before. That way she had the power to defeat an ancient dragon for sure

2: She knew, that devouring his soul would let her ascend to tri-wing status. That way she was still fighting a dragon, that normally just a tri-wing could face equally.

Just killing him for his power without knowing about ascending or being ascended before would contradict her "and my children would rule over it....". It Implies, that she would be a clanleader, when she replaces the dragon as guardian.

[Mao]

Taking Cyras description as pure truth, i see just 2 ways:

1: She was a tri-wing before. That way she had the power to defeat an ancient dragon for sure

2: She knew, that devouring his soul would let her ascend to tri-wing status. That way she was still fighting a dragon, that normally just a tri-wing could face equally.

Just killing him for his power without knowing about ascending or being ascended before would contradict her "and my children would rule over it....". It Implies, that she would be a clanleader, when she replaces the dragon as guardian.

1: Quite possible.
2: Assuming she went in with the intent of devouring his soul, yes.  For all we know she just planned to defeat him, thus ousting him as 'guardian' and installing her and her clan as the new guardians of the city.  From what I understand, a clan leader does not have to be a tri-wing so it's quite possible that she already had a clan of her own going.  Her actions could have just led to the ascension to tri-wing status.

To me, it just looks like she was trying to secure a home and future for her family/clan with her actions (albeit at the expense of M'Chek and his ilk).  The process of doing so appears to have had unexpected results.  I'm sure she knew he had power and intended to take it for her own, but the nature and magnitude of his power appears to have taken her by surprise.

[joshofspam]

This might also explain Destania's outlook on life when she messed up Abel.

If the clan gained such power in a way that they would find distasteful. Then what she says about them all deserving what they got kind of makes sense.

This might also be another reason why the dragon's are after her clan. The dragons say revenge, but I'm thinking more of a cover up. It also goes a long way of showing things were significantly more complex then Dan would figure those times would be.

Sometimes I feel Dan is a little too innocent for the world he lives in. If he isn't careful, he might just walk into the hands of an enemy he never considered was a threat. Though these little tastes of reality might save his life one day.

[Anker Steadfast]

Well, it seems Ambargh is as capable of delivering plot twists as ever.
And on top of that, the art on the latest page is really nice.

[Feather Dancer]

I've been wondering while I was out and I starting to very much doubt this was the first scuffle a Cubi had with a dragon let alone one involving a dragon's death. I suspect spats had been going on looong before this happened between Cyra and M'chek but in such a way that Dragons were being beaten/decked but less blatantly so it could be hidden. This would make sense in a grudge starting to form on the dragons front (That if I remember correct keep out other families affairs?) causing more skirmishes to occur from nerves from indviduals but not the whole race.

However when we look at THIS fight there is a big a difference with my assumption flow, there ended up being a giant city of glass sitting there as a marker going "A Dragon here was defeated by a Cubi". Now that would easily play on paranoia of an inferior race decking them AND for the show of other locals plus any run up spats before. Heck from Abel's wording it seems to figure it was the result of the spat than the actual spat that did it. It would certainly explain the big grudge Dragons have towards the Cyra clan and why Fa'Lina's was wiped out for hiding Dee plus smacking down other cubi would be a big show of "Do not screw with us or THIS is what happens!"

So my only other wonder is, was the actual magical backlash that caused the glassifying (An accidental or delibrate death throe from M'chek?) or in Cyra's defending herself from the backlash and everything going to hell in the process.


Welp that feels good to get out me system and probably completely wrong

[Naldru]

Of course you are assuming that Hishaan was waiting for the inhabitants of the city to die rather than going for fresher food on the hoof.

[Tangent]

So she did good... but out of selfish intentions. And she holds herself responsible for what happened

Damn but now I dislike dragons! ^^;;

[Feather Dancer]

The boom was when he died according to Cyra mind but yeah coulda been nomming/splating during the fight or abusing people as crossfire bait.