Foxfire reboot discussion thread.

[Turnsky]

given my blog post here i figure a thread featuring such will be a good idea also, as well as discussion.

questions, comments, criticisms welcome.

edit: also do excuse the site, seems my toying with it is throwing the widgets into a fit.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

If you think it needs to happen to make you happy with it, then it needs to happen.

I'm happy to support you either way.

[fignal]

First of all let me tell you that i am a fan, and as so my opinion is not in the least objective, so please take my advice with a grain of salt as it were.
That said, there are a few points that i would like to share with you that perhaps you can consider to help you with your future comics.
1) Size. This may seem obvious to you, since you allready wrote about it in a previous blog post of yours but i think that a comic page that out does its self and becomes so huge it cannot fit comfortably on the page or be read comfortably is just going to hurt you.
Now, I do not know anything about the mechanics of making comics, but I think it is allso more easy for you to draw a comic that is a little smaller rather than put your effort into one huge one.
here are some examples you can look at for instance:
http://kitsune.rydia.net/comic.html
The comics here are small enough if not to fit onto the page but at least small enough to be understandable, I have no trouble reading them.

Well, thats my sugjestion for now, why dont you tell me other things you feel dont work on your comic, as i said before, i am biased, i like your work, so i have a hard time telling you what i think does not work in it.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I should catch up with Fey Winds again. It's been a while. I don't think it fits on-screen, though; it's (IMHO) designed as per the printed page.

Notwithstanding that - how large is your page? 800x600? 1920x1200? larger? smaller? What size should T be drawing for? Note that I'm not criticising, I'm trying to get some idea, here, of what you're recommending...

[fignal]

I think you misunderstand me!
I was simply using Fey Winds as an operative example, the comic pages have dimensions that are equal to each other and, i suspect, comfortable for the creator.
Turnsky should be using whatever dimensions he feels best with, whatever it is that he thinks is most easy to work with and is most comfortable for him.
I think that only he knows the answer to this question and that is something he needs to ask himself, for as much as i would like to, i don't think i have the position or authority to give him advice on how to do a comic, that is best left to him.

What i can do, and as a reader what i should do, is give him advice on how to do what he wants to do, not tell him what it is that he should be doing.
Tunsky needs to ask us questions about how to plot and plan out the events in the comic, how we can help him organize the ideas he has and adress dissatisfactions that he might have.

[Turnsky]

well in all honesty some noting of plot holes, unclear plot details, generally iffy things and other fun literary issues might be good. in reality i'm working at it from an improved writing standpoint, to give you a brief glimpse into how my mind's setting at the moment, the comic will start telling a slight tale of the beginning, and progress like that.
e.g: "Exile" -> "atlantis" ->"red-wolf" ->"foxfire". I will drop some bit characters or rehash them, and generally smooth out things and properly introduce folks to the "world at large".

as for the comic itself, my "standard" has a template, it's just that sometimes (like the current 'core' page), it's a little hard for me to pace it right with that restriction.

also, while i do appreciate comments from most folks, i'm also curious to hear the opinions and other assorted points of view from other folks involved in webcomics, whether it's writing or art, useful directions to look into would be nice. 

[Frost Byte]

I agree with llearch n'n'daCorna, if a reboot is what you feel you need then do it and I will support it. You can use what you have now as references and source material to make the comic even better. I think the comic can only get better if you take sometime to step back and look at what you have now and ask yourself (and maybe even us) "What can I do to make this better/How can I improve this if I were to restart?"

You can even hold contests (like whoever donates the most) to have their character(s) or idea(s) appear in the remake or something. If we get enough exposure we can draw in more fans and if it doesn't appear to work out as you planned you can always fall back on the original.

[zero]

That is to say, at least in my opinion, "book one" is a horrid, horrid mess. I know folks are like "it's not, it's great" and that part will always have its fans

Long-time reader / lurker here. I do think your comic is great but I can see why you think it's a mess. However you must remember that all your readers started reading the comic in its current form. Personally I think all webcomics should have an end in sight even from the beginning, where everything comes to a conclusion. So my opinion is that you should finish the story as far as you can before working on any redrawings.. anyway you haven't been able to update regularly recently so if you were to start from scratch it would just take even longer..

If you don't like parts of your early plot, then a rewrite wouldn't take too long. If that's necessary to finish the story then go for it. But I would say at least finish book 3 before reworking the whole thing. You are going to learn more and more as you go along and if you start over now, you might just keep redoing the first few pages over and over and never get on with the story!

It's great that you've managed to keep updating for 7 years, and personally I've been trying to start a comic for a few years too but keep needing to start over as I can never be happy with the first page. But this is all my opinion and of course whatever you do is entirely your decision.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I think you misunderstand me!

You're right, I almost certainly did. :-/ Thank-you for explaining, and clearing things up for us all.

[joshofspam]

If you got to go back to smooth things out for you involving the story, I say go for it.

It's not like it would be the end of the world for me to have to sit through a redo.

Though I do wonder if your going to start at the beggening again and ad pages upward or are you just going  back and swipe old pages and have us go back and hunt for the changed pages? You did say you weren't changing everything, right?

[Turnsky]

That is to say, at least in my opinion, "book one" is a horrid, horrid mess. I know folks are like "it's not, it's great" and that part will always have its fans

Long-time reader / lurker here. I do think your comic is great but I can see why you think it's a mess. However you must remember that all your readers started reading the comic in its current form. Personally I think all webcomics should have an end in sight even from the beginning, where everything comes to a conclusion. So my opinion is that you should finish the story as far as you can before working on any redrawings.. anyway you haven't been able to update regularly recently so if you were to start from scratch it would just take even longer..

If you don't like parts of your early plot, then a rewrite wouldn't take too long. If that's necessary to finish the story then go for it. But I would say at least finish book 3 before reworking the whole thing. You are going to learn more and more as you go along and if you start over now, you might just keep redoing the first few pages over and over and never get on with the story!

It's great that you've managed to keep updating for 7 years, and personally I've been trying to start a comic for a few years too but keep needing to start over as I can never be happy with the first page. But this is all my opinion and of course whatever you do is entirely your decision.

it's not just the art (although that is one reason) but much of book one doesn't mesh well with how i've got the story set out, y'see back then i had no clear idea on various things, character introductions and other stuff, it was all over the place and a lot of plot holes were the result.

when i go back and redo all that now, it'll provide a far more consistent follow-through of plot, story, and character progression. with a few retcons along the way.

[ShadesFox]

Yea, I think smoothing out book one would be nice.  The story did not seem to flow very well.  Just don't forget new updates

[Chakat Blackspots]

It would probably be a good idea to do this.  The old comics text is barely readable on larger monitors, like mine, where I have it set at 1920x1080 (its a 21.5" widescreen)

[AmigaDragon]

Foxfire version of Reboot!


While I would like to see the comic progress from its current point, starting over would refresh for us where things started. I've read some stories online that got to a point of taking so long between chapter updates that I had to go back to the beginning to remind myself what had happened up to that point. Whichever way you go (continue or reboot), I'll continue to read. I want to see where this is going.

[Turnsky]

well, things are going smoothly. one thing this whole storyboard idea is giving me, is something like a script i can work from, both text and visual cues therin.

[wolfmage]

Hey, I am just a newcomer to this comic, but I want to say that I agree with the others. I will support whatever you choose to do with foxfire (as long as it doesn't involve cancling!  ). 

[Turnsky]

i'd never cancel.



well, unless the grim reaper cancels me of course. 

[Arrith]

I doubt he'd cancel.  If only because i've seen him go on Hiatus before and come back enough times that his is the second longest webcomic i've been reading. Second favorite webcomic too now that i think about it...
I do have a question about the reboot. Which i think has nothing to do with the actual reboot itself.
Will you leave links up on the site that will show the original versions of the comics or will you take them down entirely?

[Turnsky]

I doubt he'd cancel.  If only because i've seen him go on Hiatus before and come back enough times that his is the second longest webcomic i've been reading. Second favorite webcomic too now that i think about it...
I do have a question about the reboot. Which i think has nothing to do with the actual reboot itself.
Will you leave links up on the site that will show the original versions of the comics or will you take them down entirely?

i'd prolly nuke the entire archive, start anew, and put the old pages up somewhere else on the site.

[AmigaDragon]

i'd never cancel.



well, unless the grim reaper cancels me of course. 

Death is no excuse, we'll expect you to continue when you're gone.

[wolfmage]

yay! plz hurry with the reboot! -is very eager- 

[Turnsky]

life, and an eagerness to 'do this right' makes progress slowish. that said i'm getting the ten-page prologue done first, then begin the re-release.

[ShadesFox]

MOAR ARTS NAO!

[Chakat Blackspots]

Any way you could show us a bit of a peek of your progress?

[Turnsky]

i'll see what i can do later on about sneakpeeks. do know i have one page already done, two pages inked, and a fourth being sketched.

Anywho: i actually need help for this one, and i know my eyes aren't that discerning, but as far pre-ariannia goes. i need a list of unresolved plotlines, threads, holes and other things that just do not make a real amount of sense in the comic proper. see if i can't resolve/retcon/omit those depending on importance during the whole shebang.

I'm actually gonna 'pre-script' this time around, instead of 'by the set of my pants' like i've always done.

[Frost Byte]

i'll see what i can do later on about sneakpeeks. do know i have one page already done, two pages inked, and a fourth being sketched.

Anywho: i actually need help for this one, and i know my eyes aren't that discerning, but as far pre-ariannia goes. i need a list of unresolved plotlines, threads, holes and other things that just do not make a real amount of sense in the comic proper. see if i can't resolve/retcon/omit those depending on importance during the whole shebang.

I'm actually gonna 'pre-script' this time around, instead of 'by the set of my pants' like i've always done.

This sounds like a homework assignment and one that I will be happy to do

[Turnsky]

as promised, 'proof of life' from the third page of the new prologue.

[Arrith]

Sneak peek is evil because sneak peek makes me wanna go 'More now! Gimme!'
That and it looks like a gun.

[Turnsky]

in original conception, it was... well the exposed portion of a mass driver anyways, while technically not a gun, it could be used to launch things into orbit.

this time around, though it's purpose is more mundane in how it's more an actual building. to keep in line with various theories and in the retrospective fact that it looked like 'Atlantis' from stargate, this time around i built the whole shebang partially on an island.


Also, i will mention that all ten pages of the prologue are scripted out and storyboarded.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

wewt.