given my blog post here (http://www.ariannia.com/2011/03/ponderings/) i figure a thread featuring such will be a good idea also, as well as discussion.
questions, comments, criticisms welcome.
edit: also do excuse the site, seems my toying with it is throwing the widgets into a fit.
If you think it needs to happen to make you happy with it, then it needs to happen.
I'm happy to support you either way.
First of all let me tell you that i am a fan, and as so my opinion is not in the least objective, so please take my advice with a grain of salt as it were.
That said, there are a few points that i would like to share with you that perhaps you can consider to help you with your future comics.
1) Size. This may seem obvious to you, since you allready wrote about it in a previous blog post of yours but i think that a comic page that out does its self and becomes so huge it cannot fit comfortably on the page or be read comfortably is just going to hurt you.
Now, I do not know anything about the mechanics of making comics, but I think it is allso more easy for you to draw a comic that is a little smaller rather than put your effort into one huge one.
here are some examples you can look at for instance:
http://kitsune.rydia.net/comic.html
The comics here are small enough if not to fit onto the page but at least small enough to be understandable, I have no trouble reading them.
Well, thats my sugjestion for now, why dont you tell me other things you feel dont work on your comic, as i said before, i am biased, i like your work, so i have a hard time telling you what i think does not work in it.
I should catch up with Fey Winds again. It's been a while. I don't think it fits on-screen, though; it's (IMHO) designed as per the printed page.
Notwithstanding that - how large is your page? 800x600? 1920x1200? larger? smaller? What size should T be drawing for? Note that I'm not criticising, I'm trying to get some idea, here, of what you're recommending...
I think you misunderstand me!
I was simply using Fey Winds as an operative example, the comic pages have dimensions that are equal to each other and, i suspect, comfortable for the creator.
Turnsky should be using whatever dimensions he feels best with, whatever it is that he thinks is most easy to work with and is most comfortable for him.
I think that only he knows the answer to this question and that is something he needs to ask himself, for as much as i would like to, i don't think i have the position or authority to give him advice on how to do a comic, that is best left to him.
What i can do, and as a reader what i should do, is give him advice on how to do what he wants to do, not tell him what it is that he should be doing.
Tunsky needs to ask us questions about how to plot and plan out the events in the comic, how we can help him organize the ideas he has and adress dissatisfactions that he might have.
well in all honesty some noting of plot holes, unclear plot details, generally iffy things and other fun literary issues might be good. in reality i'm working at it from an improved writing standpoint, to give you a brief glimpse into how my mind's setting at the moment, the comic will start telling a slight tale of the beginning, and progress like that.
e.g: "Exile" -> "atlantis" ->"red-wolf" ->"foxfire". I will drop some bit characters or rehash them, and generally smooth out things and properly introduce folks to the "world at large".
as for the comic itself, my "standard" has a template, it's just that sometimes (like the current 'core' page), it's a little hard for me to pace it right with that restriction.
also, while i do appreciate comments from most folks, i'm also curious to hear the opinions and other assorted points of view from other folks involved in webcomics, whether it's writing or art, useful directions to look into would be nice. :3
I agree with llearch n'n'daCorna, if a reboot is what you feel you need then do it and I will support it. You can use what you have now as references and source material to make the comic even better. I think the comic can only get better if you take sometime to step back and look at what you have now and ask yourself (and maybe even us) "What can I do to make this better/How can I improve this if I were to restart?"
You can even hold contests (like whoever donates the most) to have their character(s) or idea(s) appear in the remake or something. If we get enough exposure we can draw in more fans and if it doesn't appear to work out as you planned you can always fall back on the original. :)
QuoteThat is to say, at least in my opinion, "book one" is a horrid, horrid mess. I know folks are like "it's not, it's great" and that part will always have its fans
Long-time reader / lurker here. I do think your comic is great but I can see why you think it's a mess. However you must remember that all your readers started reading the comic in its current form. Personally I think all webcomics should have an end in sight even from the beginning, where everything comes to a conclusion. So my opinion is that you should finish the story as far as you can before working on any redrawings.. anyway you haven't been able to update regularly recently so if you were to start from scratch it would just take even longer..
If you don't like parts of your early plot, then a rewrite wouldn't take too long. If that's necessary to finish the story then go for it. But I would say at least finish book 3 before reworking the whole thing. You are going to learn more and more as you go along and if you start over now, you might just keep redoing the first few pages over and over and never get on with the story!
It's great that you've managed to keep updating for 7 years, and personally I've been trying to start a comic for a few years too but keep needing to start over as I can never be happy with the first page. But this is all my opinion and of course whatever you do is entirely your decision.
Quote from: fignal on March 31, 2011, 04:18:29 PM
I think you misunderstand me!
You're right, I almost certainly did. :-/ Thank-you for explaining, and clearing things up for us all.
If you got to go back to smooth things out for you involving the story, I say go for it.
It's not like it would be the end of the world for me to have to sit through a redo. :P
Though I do wonder if your going to start at the beggening again and ad pages upward or are you just going back and swipe old pages and have us go back and hunt for the changed pages? You did say you weren't changing everything, right?
Quote from: zero on April 01, 2011, 08:31:36 AM
QuoteThat is to say, at least in my opinion, "book one" is a horrid, horrid mess. I know folks are like "it's not, it's great" and that part will always have its fans
Long-time reader / lurker here. I do think your comic is great but I can see why you think it's a mess. However you must remember that all your readers started reading the comic in its current form. Personally I think all webcomics should have an end in sight even from the beginning, where everything comes to a conclusion. So my opinion is that you should finish the story as far as you can before working on any redrawings.. anyway you haven't been able to update regularly recently so if you were to start from scratch it would just take even longer..
If you don't like parts of your early plot, then a rewrite wouldn't take too long. If that's necessary to finish the story then go for it. But I would say at least finish book 3 before reworking the whole thing. You are going to learn more and more as you go along and if you start over now, you might just keep redoing the first few pages over and over and never get on with the story!
It's great that you've managed to keep updating for 7 years, and personally I've been trying to start a comic for a few years too but keep needing to start over as I can never be happy with the first page. But this is all my opinion and of course whatever you do is entirely your decision.
it's not just the art (although that is one reason) but much of book one doesn't mesh well with how i've got the story set out, y'see back then i had no clear idea on various things, character introductions and other stuff, it was all over the place and a lot of plot holes were the result.
when i go back and redo all that now, it'll provide a far more consistent follow-through of plot, story, and character progression. with a few retcons along the way.
Yea, I think smoothing out book one would be nice. The story did not seem to flow very well. Just don't forget new updates D:
It would probably be a good idea to do this. The old comics text is barely readable on larger monitors, like mine, where I have it set at 1920x1080 (its a 21.5" widescreen)
Foxfire version of Reboot! :mwaha
(http://www.inwap.com/mf/reboot/cast/img/reboot.gif)
While I would like to see the comic progress from its current point, starting over would refresh for us where things started. I've read some stories online that got to a point of taking so long between chapter updates that I had to go back to the beginning to remind myself what had happened up to that point. Whichever way you go (continue or reboot), I'll continue to read. I want to see where this is going.
well, things are going smoothly. one thing this whole storyboard idea is giving me, is something like a script i can work from, both text and visual cues therin.
Hey, I am just a newcomer to this comic, but I want to say that I agree with the others. I will support whatever you choose to do with foxfire (as long as it doesn't involve cancling! :cry ). :mowcookie
i'd never cancel.
well, unless the grim reaper cancels me of course. :P
I doubt he'd cancel. If only because i've seen him go on Hiatus before and come back enough times that his is the second longest webcomic i've been reading. Second favorite webcomic too now that i think about it...
I do have a question about the reboot. Which i think has nothing to do with the actual reboot itself.
Will you leave links up on the site that will show the original versions of the comics or will you take them down entirely?
Quote from: Arrith on May 24, 2011, 06:46:47 PM
I doubt he'd cancel. If only because i've seen him go on Hiatus before and come back enough times that his is the second longest webcomic i've been reading. Second favorite webcomic too now that i think about it...
I do have a question about the reboot. Which i think has nothing to do with the actual reboot itself.
Will you leave links up on the site that will show the original versions of the comics or will you take them down entirely?
i'd prolly nuke the entire archive, start anew, and put the old pages up somewhere else on the site.
Quote from: Turnsky on May 24, 2011, 04:23:52 AM
i'd never cancel.
well, unless the grim reaper cancels me of course. :P
Death is no excuse, we'll expect you to continue when you're gone. :mwaha :mowtongue :mowhappy :mowmeep
yay! plz hurry with the reboot! -is very eager- :mowmeep
life, and an eagerness to 'do this right' makes progress slowish. that said i'm getting the ten-page prologue done first, then begin the re-release.
MOAR ARTS NAO!
Any way you could show us a bit of a peek of your progress?
i'll see what i can do later on about sneakpeeks. do know i have one page already done, two pages inked, and a fourth being sketched.
Anywho: i actually need help for this one, and i know my eyes aren't that discerning, but as far pre-ariannia goes. i need a list of unresolved plotlines, threads, holes and other things that just do not make a real amount of sense in the comic proper. see if i can't resolve/retcon/omit those depending on importance during the whole shebang.
I'm actually gonna 'pre-script' this time around, instead of 'by the set of my pants' like i've always done.
Quote from: Turnsky on June 15, 2011, 01:36:44 AM
i'll see what i can do later on about sneakpeeks. do know i have one page already done, two pages inked, and a fourth being sketched.
Anywho: i actually need help for this one, and i know my eyes aren't that discerning, but as far pre-ariannia goes. i need a list of unresolved plotlines, threads, holes and other things that just do not make a real amount of sense in the comic proper. see if i can't resolve/retcon/omit those depending on importance during the whole shebang.
I'm actually gonna 'pre-script' this time around, instead of 'by the set of my pants' like i've always done.
This sounds like a homework assignment L: and one that I will be happy to do :D
as promised, 'proof of life' from the third page of the new prologue.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/3rdpageinks.jpg)
Sneak peek is evil because sneak peek makes me wanna go 'More now! Gimme!'
That and it looks like a gun.
in original conception, it was... well the exposed portion of a mass driver anyways, while technically not a gun, it could be used to launch things into orbit.
this time around, though it's purpose is more mundane in how it's more an actual building. to keep in line with various theories and in the retrospective fact that it looked like 'Atlantis' from stargate, this time around i built the whole shebang partially on an island.
Also, i will mention that all ten pages of the prologue are scripted out and storyboarded.
wewt.
It's a bit late for me to add to this discussion, but I'd like to put a word in regardless.
I've seen this sort of thing happen often, usually because the artist looks back at his or her early art and goes "AUGH." They then put the comic on hold while they clean up/redraw everything. The redrawing commences, and a few months later, the comic dies. I've seen it repeated over and over.
I recall just one comic that did not follow this cycle. The creator of Evil Plan (http://evilplan.thewebcomic.com/) did not halt the comic for redraws. She decreased the number of updates per month, but the story continued. When she was done redrawing, life went on as it had before.
So, if possible, I would suggest continuing the current storyline (slowly) as well as redoing the first book.
Edit: if i come off rather abrasive it's because i'm tired, please take no offense.
But this is how it goes: i'm pretty much working on this comic by myself. i have a job, and maaaany other real life stresses i'd rather not get into right now.
Also have commission work i need to get done.
I'm also trying to rewrite honest-to-god character bios. cast pics. various other tidbits of information.
Also trying to rework the plot into something that's consistent and actually makes bloody sense in the long run.
also truth be told? I kinda take offense to
QuoteThe creator of Evil Plan did not halt the comic for redraws. She decreased the number of updates per month, but the story continued. When she was done redrawing, life went on as it had before.
So, if possible, I would suggest continuing the current storyline (slowly) as well as redoing the first book.
I'm not that comic's artist, SHE also has a WRITER to help her work on things. (allow me to reiterate the fact that I'm working on this solo).
As mentioned before the previous edit, that you failed to take notice of the already sporadic update schedule. have you not noticed the comic last updated in march, and the last story-orientated page was in the previous october?
quite frankly i'm irritated to the point of flinging a LOT of bile your way, but sometimes impatient people just make me want to work on things far less.
So you can bloody well wait. >:[
Quote from: Arcblade on June 19, 2011, 10:44:01 AM
It's a bit late for me to add to this discussion, but I'd like to put a word in regardless.
You're right, it is a bit late.
Quote from: Arcblade on June 19, 2011, 10:44:01 AM
I recall just one comic that did not follow this cycle. The creator of Evil Plan (http://evilplan.thewebcomic.com/) did not halt the comic for redraws. She decreased the number of updates per month, but the story continued. When she was done redrawing, life went on as it had before.
The creator of A Girl And Her Fed (No, I'm not going to bother giving you a link. you can just google it. It's not _that_ hard to figure out the domain...) has done much the same thing, except that she's not re-organising the story completely; some minor tweaks, but mostly just redoing the art.
She's got some 100 or so pages into the story, so far. As I recall, she's been doing the redraw for the last couple of years, and is about halfway through it. It is a major, major undertaking.
Having said that, I'm not pushing Turnsky to update, either. I'm more than happy that he knows better than I do what he wants to do with the story; my only concern is that at current rate, I'm _never_ going to find out what happens, because he's going to die of extreme old age before he finishes. And, frankly, that's just my bad luck.
What I'd like most is to win the lottery, so I can find the various authors I like most, and make significant donations in their directions. I can't see that happening anytime soon...
I'm just going to agree with llearch on his points. I know that I've even posted "MOAR ART NAO" in this thread, but that is because Turnsky knows I'm an ass.
if i ever become filthy rich, you can be my butler, shades, you're already a giant butt as is, so you're well and truly qualified enough. :U
suffice to say, this comic, isn't my job, i like to make it, but between life and bills, it has to take second fiddle.
Quote from: Turnsky on June 19, 2011, 11:52:29 AM
Edit: if i come off rather abrasive it's because i'm tired, please take no offense.
But this is how it goes: i'm pretty much working on this comic by myself. i have a job, and maaaany other real life stresses i'd rather not get into right now.
Also have commission work i need to get done.
I'm also trying to rewrite honest-to-god character bios. cast pics. various other tidbits of information.
Also trying to rework the plot into something that's consistent and actually makes bloody sense in the long run.
also truth be told? I kinda take offense to QuoteThe creator of Evil Plan did not halt the comic for redraws. She decreased the number of updates per month, but the story continued. When she was done redrawing, life went on as it had before.
So, if possible, I would suggest continuing the current storyline (slowly) as well as redoing the first book.
I'm not that comic's artist, SHE also has a WRITER to help her work on things. (allow me to reiterate the fact that I'm working on this solo).
As mentioned before the previous edit, that you failed to take notice of the already sporadic update schedule. have you not noticed the comic last updated in march, and the last story-orientated page was in the previous october?
quite frankly i'm irritated to the point of flinging a LOT of bile your way, but sometimes impatient people just make me want to work on things far less.
So you can bloody well wait. >:[
Since I see I've offended you, I'll apologize first and foremost. It wasn't my intention.
I'm willing to wait. I did not take note of your update schedule because I started reading the comic yesterday. Essentially, I worked through the archives in the space of a day, decided it was good, and added it to my read list. I understand that you have a life, and of course it must take first precedence. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I merely wanted to make my knowledge available, in case it would help.
Also, if this is "abrasive", I'd hate to see when you do mean offense. :)
Again, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make a long day longer, nor detract from your enthusiasm for the comic.
alright, all is forgiven (belatedly).
Just FYI folks, if the site's acting wonky, it's because i'm gonna try and eke out some renovation time out of the comic, and perhaps see if i can't have the old pages elsewhere on the site itself without interfering with the frontpage.
Comicpress isn't exactly the most pleasant beasts to wrangle, granted the latest does seem to be pretty flexible.
Once the reboot starts, what kind of posting schedule are you aiming for?
Quote from: AmigaDragon on July 22, 2011, 08:42:37 PM
Once the reboot starts, what kind of posting schedule are you aiming for?
twice a month hopefully.
just to prove i have been alive this past while, i gave the site a facelift.
It's very clean and pretty. I have, of course, always been a fan of blue. ^_^
It is pretty, now we just need Duke Nukem on the cover... *shifty eyes*
I like it. Not that I disliked the old page, mind, but I like this better. Spare, clean, almost spartan, but still decorative. Very nice.
personal design philosophy, comic's the forefront, and i don't want the other elements to detract from that, but still delivers what one needs from a site.
I for one, like the new site design, though it is slightly awkward using the buttons on the left. In my opinion, it would be better with all the menu stuff at the top.
Of course, it could always just be that I'm used to the old design with the menu stuff at the right.
As a minor suggestion, it would be nice if there was a small amount of text under the feed button telling you it's the feed.
Quote from: lilpuppy23 on August 23, 2011, 03:08:55 AM
As a minor suggestion, it would be nice if there was a small amount of text under the feed button telling you it's the feed.
good idea, it is done.
as for the menu along the top? has merit, i'll see how i can make it work with what design elements i have.
It will be interesting to see how the roles of the other four Wendigos play out in the re-due. Will we get more of an idea of their roles to play with Luke?
Heck, I'm a little concerned about how Beth and the techie are handling the new world their on. I doubt any of the forced training would help them on this primitive seeming world.
Turnsky,
Foxfire has been in my bookmarks for gods know how long and I hope the reboot will work out how you'd like it.
Cheers!
OKAY.
To sate people's curiousity i'll state this as plainly as i can, and since xepher is down.
2012
is when i'll be relaunching the comic in its entirety.
I'm about to get really snippy here, but let's face facts.
I HAVE A LIFE. I HAVE A JOB.
My life does not revolve around making comics. My life is also filled with a few personal matters that i deign to not make you all privy to.
I've also got a buttload of background work to get done.
As well as the website overhaul.
oooh, something resembling a buffer.
Character redesigns, various minor retcons.
the list goes on.
suffice to say if you want something halfassed.
GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.I really don't think some folks appreciate the amount of work that would go into something that should have a decent, in-depth story.
But yeah, 2012. That's Two-Thousand and Twelve, folks. might be January, might be February, who knows?!
but it's like this, i have eleven pages to complete (cover and prologue) three of these are done, the rest are all inked and ready for color.
sorry for the ranty folks, but pestering me is a surefire way to get under my skin. and subsequently earn my wrath.
speaking of which, i've gotta start compiling a list of names for the meat tree.
*raises hand* Where do we go to pay for the privilege of seeing your strips, then? Since those of us who make money for a living might have some spare they can heave in your direction and all?
Quote from: Turnsky on November 01, 2011, 10:43:08 AM...i've gotta start compiling a list of names for the meat tree.
Is there some importance in-comic to who was consumed in the meat tree? Or are you talking about a forum meat tree for those who annoy you?
Quote from: AmigaDragon on November 01, 2011, 02:51:06 PM
Quote from: Turnsky on November 01, 2011, 10:43:08 AM...i've gotta start compiling a list of names for the meat tree.
Is there some importance in-comic to who was consumed in the meat tree? Or are you talking about a forum meat tree for those who annoy you?
the latter, really.
Hi, so I'm more of a new reader of the comic and I love it! Officially, I cant wait for the new year now~ Good luck with keeping up with everything, I know what its like when life explodes and its really hard to keep up with the things you love...I'm not sure if this post should go here but oh wells... oh! remember to sleep, sleep is good, (I'm an architecture student and we don't sleep so yea...) back to point: YAYS :hug
You know, around that time is when I get my fun gun... 2012 seems to be shaping up to be a good year. And if yOu need help bringing down some people...
New to the forum, not to the comic, been bookmarked since my last computer. Anyways, 2012!? WOOT! That is AWESOME (I really don't mind the wait, in short.) But really! As if some graduation wasn't gonna be enough, this too?! sweet! And I am glad to hear that it is still going; been trying to find this in my THOUSANDS of bookmarks... but that's not the point. I appreciate that you put this up, and I apologize for being 8 months late (I am not a very observant person; if I am reading, I am not paying attention to what is around the material or myself.)
Tangent done.
Good to find/hear about this, look forward to next year, and i'm out.
I am glad to hear that the story is being continued/rebooted!!
I have been eagerly waiting for a new page since October 2010. I will continue to eagerly wait for the beginning of the reboot now that I know it is coming rather then waiting for a next page to continue the older format.
-Old reader/new forum member