09/02/2011 [PF# 156] Ashford's death comes back to haunt Keaton.

[joshofspam]

Looks like getting all riled up about that new possible weapon and having to put down Ashford is finally catching up to Keaton.

It also seems like she's non to pleased that she can't get her meat hooks into Joshua and get him back to base ....Alone. Hmmmm... just what is she so hooked on about getting Josh back?

Sure, killing Daryil makes it easier to take Jakob's tech. But Joshua's tech body doesn't seem like the same thing that she would be after. Then again she might have thought he was still loyal to Starfire up this point. I'm suspecting she won't take this to well.

[Madmann135]

This is a reverse game of Russian roulette, Joshua accounted 5 reasons why he should not go back. 
I like Joshuah's dead pan stare, it tells how thoroughly he has thought it through.

[Lisky]

Keaton's reply: "Well, he might be dead, and he might be alive.  Until you are capable of proving one or the other, you must assume he is in both states."
Josh: "Wait... what?"
Keaton: *evil grin* "Undeath isn't all that bad, is it?"

[Inumo]

Keaton's reply: "Well, he might be dead, and he might be alive.  Until you are capable of proving one or the other, you must assume he is in both states."
Josh: "Wait... what?"
Keaton: *evil grin* "Undeath isn't all that bad, is it?"

So that's what's in the briefcase.

Aside from that, it seems Keaton's about to get rejected.

[Ren Gaulen]

Keaton's reply: "Well, he might be dead, and he might be alive.  Until you are capable of proving one or the other, you must assume he is in both states."
Josh: "Wait... what?"

Keaton: "Schroedinger Fox. "

[Tapewolf]

This is a reverse game of Russian roulette, Joshua accounted 5 reasons why he should not go back.  
I like Joshuah's dead pan stare, it tells how thoroughly he has thought it through.

To be fair, being killed was an occupational hazard so it's one of the weaker reasons.

(EDIT: And for that matter, it was Keaton who stopped Ashford killing him, but on the other hand it would kind of shake your faith in the management)

[Gabi]

I liked this strip. The expressions on Josh's and Keaton's faces were great.

[Brunhidden]

disassemble? NO DISASSEMBLE!

[joshofspam]

disassemble? NO DISASSEMBLE!

Squash? Dead?

Disassemble? Dead?

Disassemble Dead!

I wonder just how much Keaton enjoyed her self promotion up until now? Spies at her beck and call, assassins taking care of her enemies and little annoyances.

A huge supply of different kinds of food that can be delivered to her office drawing out different emotions as she makes agents wonder if what Ashford wants. Is he going to fire them? Is he going to bore them with tails of secret cults? Is it that raise they were hoping for?

Yes! Keaton certainly seemed like she was living the good life up to this point.

[Shachza]

I just gotta' say it.  With scenes like her in panel one, and that old one where she was rustling up her bed, Keaton's character is a hottie.  There.  I feel better.



I've never liked the Schrödinger's cat paradox.  It feels like a grown-up's version of playing peek-a-boo with a baby.  Just because YOU aren't aware of the state of something doesn't mean that a larger-than-subatomic object is in the impossible state of being in two mutually exclusive states at once.

[techmaster-glitch]

Fun fact about the schodinger's cat paradox is that Schodinger himself actually didn't believe quantum mechanics (or so I've read). He created the cat paradox to demonstrate how absurd the idea of quantum mechanics was (or so I've heard).

But, as things go, he didn't expect everyone to go "Hey! That's actually a really good analogy! Let's use it!" (or so I infer) And now, the guy who hated QM the most now has his name inextricably linked to it.

[joshofspam]

Fun fact about the schodinger's cat paradox is that Schodinger himself actually didn't believe quantum mechanics (or so I've read). He created the cat paradox to demonstrate how absurd the idea of quantum mechanics was (or so I've heard).

But, as things go, he didn't expect everyone to go "Hey! That's actually a really good analogy! Let's use it!" (or so I infer) And now, the guy who hated QM the most now has his name inextricably linked to it.

Wait a minute?

But isn't it not much different from the question "If a tree falls in the woods and no ones around, does it make a sound"?

schrodinger's cat paradox  sounds strangely complex for whatever he was trying to say.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

What I'm about to say is based on my knowledge of physics. Since I'm a lit major, in law school, you might want to take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.


However, "observation" in quantum mechanics has a somewhat specific meaning, namely that you managed to shine a photon (particle of light) on whatever it was, and then have that photon return to you. Because of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, that action actually changed the outcome.

Therein lies the essential difference with a tree falling in a forest. In that, the tree either made a sound or it didn't, regardless of your or anyone's ability to perceive that. With the cat-box, the act of observing the radioactive marker actually fixes its position, and creates the outcome.

[KarlOmega1]

Keaton's pose in the first panel looks kinda...seductive.

Anyway, I think Keaton should have realized that it wasn't gonna be easy to get back Joshua.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I've never liked the Schrödinger's cat paradox.  It feels like a grown-up's version of playing peek-a-boo with a baby.  Just because YOU aren't aware of the state of something doesn't mean that a larger-than-subatomic object is in the impossible state of being in two mutually exclusive states at once.

Specifically, Schrödinger's Cat is a "thought experiment", or, "if a particle was the size of a cat, this is how it'd work"; it's not an actual cat, and it's not expected that anyone would ever put a cat in that sort of situation; I suspect Schrödinger himself would be horrified if anyone did that to a poor semi-defenseless animal that's pointy on five of the six ends...

The whole reason for it is to demonstrate how absurd the "rules" of Quantum Mechanics are, and hence why they don't work. Except that, sadly for him, he was wrong - they do work like that, absurd though they are. Which is why everyone uses his cat to explain them.

[Tapewolf]

I did manage to get Serpent Isle to do this once, by prematurely triggering a plot event that killed half the characters in the game.

"The people of Fawn are now in a 'Schrödinger's Cat'-like state, being neither alive nor dead, but somewhere in between until they are observed.
In practice this means that they are alive until you see them, at which point they will suddenly drop stone dead before your eyes.
For this reason, you must take great care that you don't see anyone on the way to the trial, as the game will not be happy if it has to summon a corpse to the proceedings."

[Naldru]

Actually, a veterinarian would normally be able to determine the time of death of a cat by examining the remains.  Therefore, by opening the box and finding a dead cat, you could easily determine if the cat was dead or alive just before you opened the box.  I take the agnostic approach towards quantum theory: I don't fully understand it and I don't think the people who claim to fully understand it understand it either.  (However, I am willing to accept the concept that some people who claim to partly understand it do indeed partly understand it.)  I do agree that it is impossible to determine what the absolute state of matter would have been if you had not observed the state of matter.

I also feel that many discussions of quantum mechanics fall into the area of syllogisms and semantic word games. (A man was in a canoe with a box of  cigarettes but no means of igniting them.  He tossed a cigarette into the water.  Since the canoe was now a cigarette lighter, he was able to use it to light the cigarette.)  Since the meaning of the word "observed" in quantum theory does not match the common definition, this is how I view the arguments that I have heard.

I have decided to end my participation in this discussion now.  I could go on for several pages but it would accomplish nothing.

Edit:

With regard to the question before as to whether a tree in the forest makes a sound whether or not anybody is there to hear it: if sound is defined as the perception of vibration by a person, it doesn't make a sound. If you view sound as a vibration of air molecules and assume that the tree falls in a reality that obeys Newton's laws of motion and that there was nothing that would have cushioned the fall or blocked the sound, then it would seem reasonable to assume that a sound was made. However, since you haven't observed the sound, you can't say definitely that the sound occurred.  There is a finite probability based on the random motion of the air molecules that there was no sound, although the probability of occurrence may be far less than once in a google years.

[VAE]

I did manage to get Serpent Isle to do this once, by prematurely triggering a plot event that killed half the characters in the game.

"The people of Fawn are now in a 'Schrödinger's Cat'-like state, being neither alive nor dead, but somewhere in between until they are observed.
In practice this means that they are alive until you see them, at which point they will suddenly drop stone dead before your eyes.
For this reason, you must take great care that you don't see anyone on the way to the trial, as the game will not be happy if it has to summon a corpse to the proceedings."

Reminds me of a bit of Fallout II
When you reach the smart deathclaws that inhabited Vault 13 and give you G.E.C.K. two things can happen.
If , after some considerable time you return there you will find them all dead and evidence that Frank Horrigan and other  enclave soldiers paid them a visit... the one-time kind.
This will too be mentioned in the endgame titles.

However if you never visit the place again, there is no such mention and they presumably live on after enclave has been pwned...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Actually, a veterinarian would normally be able to determine the time of death of a cat by examining the remains.  Therefore, by opening the box and finding a dead cat, you could easily determine if the cat was dead or alive just before you opened the box.

The problem is that a veterinarian would not be able to identify the time of death closer than an hour or so; since the "experiment" takes only an hour, this wouldn't be a lot of use. Secondly, the thought experiment suggests that in a quantum state, the cat is neither dead nor alive until you open the box, at which point the cat has been alive the whole time, or dead for an hour, and all indications will be, if it is dead, that it's been that way the whole time.

Quantum Mechanics are a little offbeat.

[Ren Gaulen]

*looks at the thread*

..When an off-hand joke leads to a discussion in quantum physics, you know you're in a good place.

[Tapewolf]

Okay, new comic...