Furrae/DMFA CRPG project (modellers/concept artists wanted)

[thegayhare]

If you need any help with quest Ideas(Maybe to get points with her mabs might send you on a porupine huggin quest) , events possible weapons (a great joke weapon might be the mighty spork of Daniel Ti'Fiona), or enemies I'd be happy to help.  I can't actualy do anything technical but I've got lots of Ideas.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Or the loincloth of death? :-)

[Tapewolf]

Or the loincloth of death? :-)

Now look what you've made me do.

Here's one I made (12 years) earlier

[Blazehawk]

I wanna know what that Jacket of Blasphemy Beyond the Dreams of Mere Mortals is like. Sounds like fun. 

[Tapewolf]

I wanna know what that Jacket of Blasphemy Beyond the Dreams of Mere Mortals is like. Sounds like fun. 

Ah.. 'Javelin' was a silly game I made back in college ('college' in the UK is a 2-year intermediate step between school and University).
At its most basic level the plot was thus: you crashed an experimental aircraft on 'Sheep Island' and in order to escape, make a deal with this weird tribe - you have to find these weird diabolical clothes and return them to the leader so that he fixes the aircraft with his magic.
I had a passing interest in Satanism at the time (it was just a phase, nothing serious) so you had to journey into Hell to retrieve some of them.

There were a few in Heaven as well.  Heaven had these really freaky angels (Hell had fluffy bunnies in it, IIRC) and the platforms were made up of clouds.
The clouds were my brother's idea - he said "you can't be good all the time", and so the player would slowly sink through the clouds if they didn't keep jumping back up again.  If they fell through them, they wound up back in Hell and had to escape again (long drops didn't kill the player)

The clothes were actually inspired by and copied from my art teacher at school - he had no dress sense whatsoever and his clothes were grotesquely lurid colours.  I tried to make the clothes in the game as authentic as possible.
I think the jacket was green - if anyone's interested I'll try to compile a screenshot of all the clothes.
This thread was supposed to be about TKG's game though - yeah, I really suck at keeping on-topic.

[fesworks]

I wanna know what that Jacket of Blasphemy Beyond the Dreams of Mere Mortals is like. Sounds like fun. 

I had a passing interest in Satanism at the time (it was just a phase, nothing serious) so you had to journey into Hell to retrieve some of them.

I MUST ask... "Satanism" as in REAL "Satanism" which is the worship of one's self with creating situations of which you gain power by making those around you lose power (like socially between people, especially if you make people afraid of you, it gives you power over them).

... or the other "Satanism" which is taken out of context and has to do with the Christian devil and worshiping the Christian devil? (I say Chrisitian devil because true "Satanism" has no belief in such a thing and is a Chrsitain religion creation --- which I will not get into on this board)

Satanism and Devil Worshiping  are two seperate and distinct belief systems.

not to be nit-picky or anything, just helps me to understand where you are coming from 

[Tapewolf]

I had a passing interest in Satanism at the time (it was just a phase, nothing serious) so you had to journey into Hell to retrieve some of them.

I MUST ask... "Satanism" as in REAL "Satanism"...
... or the other "Satanism" which is taken out of context and has to do with the Christian devil and worshipping the Christian devil

The latter - 'Backing the loser' as it were.  Not that I ever believed in it, but I've always been fascinated by the unconventional.

Here's a picture of the editor, mostly for Seraline's benefit since it was the only shot I could get with all the clothes onscreen.

http://www.jpmorris.force9.co.uk/stuff/jav23ed.png
..as you can see, the devils are coin-operated.

Wrenching the subject back on-topic, the rooms are all interconnected.  This one is actually part of a loop where by going out of the left-hand side of the room and back, you would end up in a different location every time.
This is the kind of thing I've always wanted to do in a 3D game, hence my interest in portal mechanics for TKG's proposed engine.

[fesworks]

Well i certainly think a collaborative effort would be truely awesome to develop a game like this.

[Aridas]

We're looking for something similar to this, right?

http://www.antisphere.com/Research/Cartoon.php

[tkg]

I'll help with the writing-type stuff too, if you need me.

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of textual matter needed for this game eventually, so that would be most welcome.

Aight, so can I help with the script things? 

Sure thing... same reasoning as above

TKG, one of the things which is concerning me a little is the AI system.  Do you have a library to assist with that?  In particular, the game will need a system to plot a route from one location to another in 3D space.  With 2D games, the A-star algorithm is usually used.  Does Irrlicht provide for this too, or do you know how this is going to work?

It will be necessary both for NPC schedules and for making guards/monsters attack the player..

I do not have a library for that, but I have dabbled a bit with AI systems in 3D-cases before, so I have a slight clue as for how to implement it. Morrowind uses the A*-algorithm as far as I know, and it works fairly well (there were a few smaller bugs in there, though). I will probably (read that as definitely) encounter a few problems along the way, in which case I could need some assistance... we shall see

the shape of the head looks fine. I just think the eyes aren't too DMFA-stylish

Hmm, well... they were designed from this wallpaper (which is the one I used for reference to create the model, by the way), but I probably messed up somewhere

Well... if you're trying to draw DMFA style eyes, there are two very distinctive features of the way Amber draws them. (snip)

Incidentally, the hairstyle is wrong as well. You can't really see it in the DDR pic, but the characteristic Dan hair has the left "bang" pulled all the way back under his ear into his ponytail. Also, the reflection highlights on the eyes are pointing in different directions, which looks kinda weird.

Accuracy issues aside, however, it's a nice model. 

I will keep that in mind when I start tweaking the mesh to be used in-game. I absolutely need to find an easier way to create hair though, as it was quite a demanding task to piece it together the traditional way - maybe using NURBS could help a bit in that regard.
Oh, and thanks

What I think we should go for is a cute 3D style similar similar to some of the more anime-ish console RPGs. I personally thought that the shading on the face turned out quite nicely in the sample image. The material settings on the hair could use some tweaking though--it looks far too plastic. We should probably do a lot of the shading and highlighting for hair in texture to preserve the stylistic feel of Amber's art. We could even go all the way to fully hand textured character shading like in Kingdom Hearts, but we'd need some pretty talented skinners to pull that off.

Actually, I was thinking somewhere in those lines myself. Final Fantasy VII uses only coloured surfaces instead of textures (for the most part), but I thought it looked cool back when it came out, and in fact, I still do to this day. Perhaps we could use both techniques together to some extent? The renderings I made earlier actually showcase this, and while it could use some tweaking to make more desirable, it doesn't look hair-tearingly bad IMHO.

If you need any help with quest Ideas(Maybe to get points with her mabs might send you on a porupine huggin quest) , events possible weapons (a great joke weapon might be the mighty spork of Daniel Ti'Fiona), or enemies I'd be happy to help.  I can't actualy do anything technical but I've got lots of Ideas.

Sounds pretty fun, TGH - we should have at least some of the humoristic qualities of DMFA in this game, after all

We're looking for something similar to this, right?

http://www.antisphere.com/Research/Cartoon.php

Somewhat, I guess... although it looks a bit too flat in my opinion. Now, if we were to add some shading to that...



On another note, the world builder is coming along nicely. I'm now almost done with the connector tool, which will (as the name implies) connect tiles of the same type together, which can be anything from dirt roads to dense foliage. The editor has still some way to go before it can be used properly, but that shouldn't stop you from starting to work out some ideas as for what features you would like to see in-game, what different locations one will be able to visit and so forth... it will make the actual designing of the game much easier if we know all that stuff beforehand

Hmmm... a concept map of the entire world would be a nice start, but that's probably too much to pull off this early in development - how about some descriptions for the different areas that can be encountered? We could also use some material from the various fan-created sagas, as has already been suggested. What do you all think?

[James StarRunner]

Wow, that's a lot of input so far. I didn't read even close to the whole thing, but I gather that the kind of game hasn't been finalized yet. Something like that would have to be nailed down before many people could get to work on this. True, I'm fond of RPG's, but it seems to best choice for getting most people involved. Mostly, I think we just need the enthusiasm to last. We've have ideas like this fall through before...

[Supercheese]

Wow, that's a lot of input so far. I didn't read even close to the whole thing, but I gather that the kind of game hasn't been finalized yet. Something like that would have to be nailed down before many people could get to work on this. True, I'm fond of RPG's, but it seems to best choice for getting most people involved. Mostly, I think we just need the enthusiasm to last. We've have ideas like this fall through before...

That's what I think, too. I'm not sure how I could help, even though I'd like to...

[Tiger_T]

Looks promising. 
Well, it already got farther than the other attempts so far.

So, what game-genre?
Something like FF7?

Worldmap..
Hmm, we need: Lost Lake, Abels hometown, the mall, Kingdom of H-Anne<sp?>,Twinks territory, a beach, Jyrras's lab,
some generic woods and grassy plains, uhm.. on  separate planes: SAIA, Fae-Kingdom...

Those are what I can think of from the top of my head right now.

[Tapewolf]

So, what game-genre?
Something like FF7?

Barely heard of it.  The engine can be fine-tuned when things are a bit more concrete - right now I'm not sure if we're looking at third-person or first-person.

Worldmap..
Hmm, we need: Lost Lake, Abels hometown, the mall, Kingdom of H-Anne<sp?>,Twinks territory, a beach, Jyrras's lab,
some generic woods and grassy plains, uhm.. on  separate planes: SAIA, Fae-Kingdom...

I think that's jumping the gun a little.  We don't know where those places are relative to each other and we probably won't until Amber shares a map of the world with us.
Hence I suggested we stick with fan-locations for the main part.
SAIA can generally only be reached magically so we don't need to know where it is to have it in the game, likewise the Fae Kingdom.

Lost Lake we can kind of guess at, the city the guys are in now (what's it called?) is within walking distance, although we'll probably put it in the wrong direction from where Amber thinks it is.  From there on we could have a railway station, airport or some other form of mass-transit to connect to other locations.

[Aldoun]

Concerning fan-locations, I've begun typing up descriptions of at least some of the places that make an appearence in my own saga. I'll possibly include a few ideas of how they can be used.

One thing we can do even early on is to establish some guidelines to how different things might be written up. Things like descriptions of areas, items and characters as well as other things and ideas. A list of fan-locations that people think might be useful, as well as areas people might come up with specificly for this, might be a good thing too. I'm tossing around a mere handful ideas here but I'm wondering what you folks think of them.

[Damien Holtz]

right now I'm not sure if we're looking at third-person or first-person.

I'd definitely go for third person. With chibi characters á la Pokémon!

Hahah, jk... erm...

but IMO a third person game is much more flexible than first person. I don't recall ever playing a first person game that wasn't a shooter or a point-and-click game (Shadowgate, anyone?).

On a completely different note, jackals are cool.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Ever played The Neverhood?

Sure, it mostly wasn't first person, but there were a few parts...

[Damien Holtz]

Ever played The Neverhood?

Sure, it mostly wasn't first person, but there were a few parts...

I don't recall ever playing a first person game that wasn't a shooter or a point-and-click game (Shadowgate, anyone?).

[thegayhare]

Ohh you know what might be cool to put in?
The porcupine ballad I wrote for mabs...

when Mab sends you off on a porcupine quest... Either for you to huggle,  or get her some special porcupine hugging armor for her,  there could be a bard nearby singing the song.

I'll go threw the archive tonight and try and come up with quest hooks, items and enemies...

*giggles*

Ohh How about a quest ferrying messages back between Biggs and Wildy...
Evil chars could get this from Biggs,  Good chars could get it from wildy.

[Tapewolf]

but IMO a third person game is much more flexible than first person. I don't recall ever playing a first person game that wasn't a shooter or a point-and-click game

Does that mean you never played Deus Ex, System Shock or Ultima Underworld?   

[Aridas]

Well, it already got farther than the other attempts so far.

If you don't count my RPG based on forum members, which kinda got cut short with a lack of all that talking to the people who were going to be/I wanted to be characters in. I had a good part of the map figured out, and the more important elements of the plot were sorted out, but those sorta got irrelevant over time... Like Janus trying to take over the world with shonen-ai. Had I gotten some help though, I probably could've had it finished JUST before that sort of thing went out of style on the forum...

Er... Anyway... We shouldn't go to gaga with all these supposed quests and characters and locations until we're sure we've got something going. It could make the whole thing fall apart if we don't sort out the important things first.. I mean, we're still stuck on the "what exactly is this going to be" stage, so I think once we've got SOMETHING we can work with, we should see what's possible with it, and what's best to use with what tools we have at hand...

[tkg]

Wow, that's a lot of input so far. I didn't read even close to the whole thing, but I gather that the kind of game hasn't been finalized yet. Something like that would have to be nailed down before many people could get to work on this. True, I'm fond of RPG's, but it seems to best choice for getting most people involved. Mostly, I think we just need the enthusiasm to last. We've have ideas like this fall through before...

We shouldn't go to gaga with all these supposed quests and characters and locations until we're sure we've got something going. It could make the whole thing fall apart if we don't sort out the important things first.. I mean, we're still stuck on the "what exactly is this going to be" stage, so I think once we've got SOMETHING we can work with, we should see what's possible with it, and what's best to use with what tools we have at hand...

Which reminds me... I think we'll have to structurize our team furthermore to make such decisions easier. It doesn't help a whole lot if seven people comes up with twelve different game ideas, after all.
This essentially means that we must have a project lead (of about 2-4 people), as well as one person in charge of each of the different departments (artists, writers and the like). The project lead should consist of people who can take responsibility for the progression of the project at a whole - as in, they have the final say on what goes into the project and what goes right out the window.
Note that just because they've got the final say on things doesn't mean that other team-members suddenly can't discuss them on an equal level, though

The task of maintaining the enthusiasm throughout the team may perhaps be in the hands of the project lead when bottlenecks emerge - hopefully our love for Furrae and its inhabitants can help us in this regard

[Damien Holtz]

*tumultuous applause, etc.* Well said TKG. Well said.

[Damien Holtz]

Does that mean you never played Deus Ex, System Shock or Ultima Underworld?   D:

I don't recall ever playing a first person game that wasn't a shooter or a point-and-click game.

Jeez. How many times am I gonna have to quote myself? =P

Edit: Whoops! Double post! Sooorrryyyy

[Aridas]

I don't think it's possible for them to NOT be that way, or you wouldn't be doing anything.

[tkg]

Some progress status on the world builder: The connector tool is done, along with a few of the various editing tools. Also created a pretty nice (but yet incomplete) satellite system for moving various celestial bodies around, which of course alters the scene lighting dramatically. The editor itself is becoming increasingly easier to use for every day that passes, which is indeed a good sign, although it's still kind of clunky

I really should get around to set up some sort of project page, and perhaps even a forum if I manage to, so that everything regarding the game can be discussed there instead. Some day...

[Jack McSlay]

as for the story of the game and such. I've said in the previous topic about it and I'll say again...

I'd really prefer not to make a DMFA game, but a Furrae game. If we make the game based on characters from the DMFA storyline, we would likely either get stuck trying to stay true to the comic's storyline - which tends to curse a lot of games based on third party franchises - or we could end up making a game that would be in total disagreement with the comic itself. To the point nobody apparently shown any story ideas so far.
Meanwhile I have previously thought up a story that would be interesting enough yet not focused on the DMFA storyline itself.

It would pass several years before DMFA itself, many years before Edward Ti'Fiona would be born. Then it would show up Dark Pegasus joining the Dark God to gain power. And then the main character would be an ancestor of Dan (the name Malcolm Ti'Fiona keeps floating on my head) which would get a party of heroes and then fight DP and the Dark God (the name Tardis for the Dark God keeps floating on my head as well)

[Aridas]

That's way too cliche.

[Jack McSlay]

If we're going to turn down story ideas right from the basic concept of the story, we're better just to give up doing it, because I haven't see any RPGs that aren't about

- there is a war going on or
- someone wants revenge or
- an evil god is awakening or
- someone wants the glory of becoming a great warrior

like, compare the story of Chrono Trigger and Skies of Arcadia, both are on the "an evil god is awakening" model but Chrono Trigger is far from clichéd, while Skies of Arcadia is the materialization of clichés

[Tapewolf]

If we're going to turn down story ideas right from the basic concept of the story, we're better just to give up doing it, because I haven't see any RPGs that aren't about

- there is a war going on or
- someone wants revenge or
- an evil god is awakening or
- someone wants the glory of becoming a great warrior

like, compare the story of Chrono Trigger and Skies of Arcadia, both are on the "an evil god is awakening" model but Chrono Trigger is far from clichéd, while Skies of Arcadia is the materialization of clichés

Well, I'm perfectly happy with the 'Evil God awakening' theme.  Look, we're in Furrae, right?  Besides the Dark God, there are Fae and Triwing 'cubi, both of which are powerful enough to be considered minor deities.  And that's ignoring people who worship some of the more power tentacle Mythos like the SAIA Librarian.

So, rather than just saying 'No' let's try to fix it.  My personal inclination would be to put it slightly in the future relative to DMFA.  Dark Pegasus I like, although admittedly I'm a little biased there.  I do not see why someone would not negate the curse preventing his return - the Dark God after all has other agents than just Pegasus (unless he's an idiot who doesn't deserve the chance to return).

So why doesn't Dan come back to sort him out?  Because he's frantically studying for an end-of-decade exam at SAIA and so it falls to someone else, i.e. you.

Be that as it may, I'm of the inclination that the player's first mission should be something akin to buying some soup from the local store.  The plot itself should be gradually introduced.

Any comments?