Furrae/DMFA CRPG project (modellers/concept artists wanted)

[Rowne]

Talking rubbish, Gar?  Pish.  It all sounded pretty good to me, especially the Samurai Showdown call for beings.

[Caswin]

I'm still working on scripts, though. (Three and counting!)

Scripting the comic?

Have a look at the radio play stuff. I wrote up the full scripts for that....

Scripting fighting campaigns.  Currently kind of stalled.

[Jack McSlay]

Jack: Our sprites wouldn't have to be professional quality, nor would they have to have the animation count of a professional game.  I think that the reason sprites get reused a lot (and this is only in existing franchises) is because they're a known symbol.  Stick Ryu in something and it's likely going to sell no matter what it is.  That's pretty much how Marvel versus Capcom worked and this idea of reusing things over and over is primarily the forte of Capcom, who've made a lot of 2D fighters.

There are a lot of fighters out there and fighter franchises which don't recycle things like Capcom do, unfortunately these examples are less mainstream.  There are however examples of 3D fighting games reusing stuff too, like Tekken I believe, which seems to fall prey to this.  It's more of a matter of using characters that will make a game sell, I don't think it's because sprite animation is all that much more difficult.

Take a look at the sprite that Gareeku uses as his avatar, that level of quality and animation would do just fine and if we included a lot of variation and characters, we wouldn't have to worry too much about quality.  If you take a look at a place like Home of the Underdogs, there are a lot of fighters there.  Some of which have reached critical acclaim amongst fighting fans.  In fact the Japanese freeware scene has been releasing a lot of unique 2D fighters and shmups lately but I digress.

Anyway, if you look at the Underdogs, there are a lot of fighters there that don't have the greatest graphics but what they do have is a lot of variety, well balanced characters and good fighting mechanics.

In fact, if you're going to compare this effort with anything, I'd say that the homebrew fighters found on such sites are probably the best comparisons to make and I'd really suggest taking a look at those to understand basically where I'm coming from.  It's because of those that I'm sure that this can't be too hard.  If Japanese freeware developers can manage one every few months (some of these teams consisting of only one or two people), how hard can it be?

As for the kind of fighting game, I could see DMFA as a purist game but not as something along the lines of Street Fighter.  Again, I could see it being more like Guilty Gear, Waku Waku 7 or some of the more zany 2D fighters rather than Street Fighter, which despite its eccentricities, is very mainstream.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't do a SSMB game, it's just that I imagine that would take even more resources because it would be a 3D game, wouldn't it?  That would require modelling and skinning and that's far more difficult than making the homebrew fighters I'm thinking of.  The forum is big enough for multiple projects, so I could see both projects coming about if they had the support.

Again, all they need is focus and direction.

namco doesn't reuse tekken's models only their designs I haven't seen any 3d fighter series that reuses models between sequels. on the other hand, the street fighter series had only 4 sets os sprites during its whole existance, SF1, SF2,SF3 and SFA, the derivates only using recycled sprites from the previous game.

The concept of 2d being actually easier for making a game is valid for many genres, but not fighting. doing animations for a fighting game that doesn't look like cheap 70's cartoons takes a lot of work, while animating a 3d model requires you only to create the model itself and then just editing angles.

JP's idea is valid, but OMF is a bad example. Killer Instinct, on the other hand is easily one of the most beautiful fighting games ever made. However I don't see how KI-style graphics can fit into DMFA, and I don't think pre-rendered cell-shaded characters will look too good.

[tkg]

I like the Idea of mixing dating game aspects with adventure gameing, and the ability to select creature types and species would be great,  I'sd also add the possibility of a pet to the game

you know like Pip is with Mab  maybe you could find your own drake (or mow or...) in the wild,  you'd have to earn it's trust with food, or toys (a mix of good, evil and nutreal pets with differnt likes as well as differnt speices likes would also be cool)  once you get it's trus you could start training it  to preform certain tasks on command and you could maybe have a little thing so you could customise your pet (clothing, accesories, and as well as enhancments)

Hmmm... surely something I would like to see as well

The reason I keep suggesting that we use existing engines instead of creating our own is because creating unique engines is the number one way that a game gets stuck in development hell.  That's what happened with Antilia (a furry MMO), apparently now they've switched to Ogre3D and they're making some progress.  However, by using an engine it's much easier and quicker to put a game together.  Dark Messiah of Might and Magic might've taken years longer had they decided to code their own engine instead of using Source.

Programming a game engine does take time, granted, but for me that's where the fun lies. As long as I can rely on a good graphics and physics engine to drive it, I'm all game
As for (ex-Enygma Arts) RightBrainGames, they seem to have gotten their world builder in order now, at least. Maybe something good will come of it after all.

Besides, I'm not sure we have the assets and the resources to code our own engine.  ... do we?

Dev-C++, Irrlicht, Newton, OpenAL and RakNet are all tools and libraries I use for this sole purpose. All I need now is time... and a lot of it at that



Now, I'm not sure how many of you who have posted in this thread are actually interested in working on a project like this. Some of you seem more geared towards fighting games and SCUMM-like games and what not instead, which is why I ask
So, I will question this: If you are indeed interested, what aspect of development are you willing/able to help out with? And how much time would you see yourself spending on it (per week, for instance)? That is all... for now.

I myself have spent a few hours today modelling a concept mesh of Dan's head, to see what the characters could look like in the game.

Behold the same thing from six slightly different angles.

Now I'm not saying that this couldn't use some more tweaking before it could be considered usable in-game, but it's getting somewhere, isn't it? I hope it serves as a wee bit of inspiration, at least

Edit: Bonus points for those who can guess what picture I used for reference, heh...

[Aridas]

Shiny. But as people said, it could probably use a less 3D looking, cartoon-style rendering... Not saying what you have there doesn't kick ass though

[ITOS]

I keep thinking of Super Mario when I try to imagine how Furrae would look in a 3D game...

Anyway, I would have helped but I have no 3D programs or skills. All I have is Photoshop...

[Tapewolf]

Now, I'm not sure how many of you who have posted in this thread are actually interested in working on a project like this. Some of you seem more geared towards fighting games and SCUMM-like games and what not instead, which is why I ask
So, I will question this: If you are indeed interested, what aspect of development are you willing/able to help out with? And how much time would you see yourself spending on it (per week, for instance)? That is all... for now.

I don't have time to manage a SCUMM game, and your mesh for Dan is pretty good - but I still think the number of 3D modellers here can be counted on one hand.  Shadrok is good, but I've only ever seen him do aircraft and other inorganic models, IIRC.

Personally, I can't help you much with the engine.  General program logic I could probably help with, but no 3D-related algorithms.  Assuming you program the game in a reasonably sensible manner (fopen instead of CreateFile etc) I can also port it to Linux.  If it doesn't run in Linux, which is where I spend most of my time.

If the world editor is reasonably straightforward I might be able to help you with that, although I've never done much collaborative work before, and I don't know what the operating principle of the Irrlicht environment is.

Beware - this was one of my Doom levels : http://it-he.org/doom.htm#smb
..the Doom community still cannot decide whether it was good or bad.

I can also help with writing, world consistency etc, to say nothing of audio, and to some extent textures.  But I think it would be much better to make a game set in Furrae and leave most of the DMFA characters alone.  I'm sure some of the forumites would be happy to contribute characters.

I myself have spent a few hours today modelling a concept mesh of Dan's head, to see what the characters could look like in the game.

Behold the same thing from six slightly different angles.

Now I'm not saying that this couldn't use some more tweaking before it could be considered usable in-game, but it's getting somewhere, isn't it? I hope it serves as a wee bit of inspiration, at least

That's rather good.  Now lets see you do the feathers :twisted  I wouldn't have done Dan, though - it might be better to stick with invented characters. 

[Gareeku]

1. 3D could work i suppose, but there is the possibility that not everyone's computers may be able to keep up with the graphics, as the preview shows them to be quite good. Plus all the body motions for moves, moving forward, moving back, jumping ducking etc. need to be done too.

2. Seeing as its a game based on DMFA, it would be pretty stupid not to include any of the cast in it. the cast selected for the game should be the priority characters, and then people's invented characters should come next.

*SO reserves a spot for Gareeku* >_>

[Tapewolf]

2. Seeing as its a game based on DMFA, it would be pretty stupid not to include any of the cast in it. the cast selected for the game should be the priority characters, and then people's invented characters should come next.

Well it actually says 'based on Furrae' in the title, which to my mind means 'something set in the DMFA universe'.  In my experience Amber has a tendency to ignore requests for permission, which is the main reason I'm saying it should be further afield that Lost Lake.  Don't forget that most of the characters in the strip are contributed anyway and not actually hers.

[Netami]

We all know that a game only serves to show me fighting Gareeku, so we dont need to spend time talking anymore.

In fact, I already know the outcome of every fight, so we dont even need to make a game! 

[Gareeku]

It's based in the DMFA universe, yes. Therefore, one would presume there would be characters from DMFA. The only characters in the comic which aren't hers are aaryanna, merlitz and Azlan. Dan has been given to Mab by his creator, so him and all the other characters (sans cameos) are all Ambers, and we can ask permission from Azlan quite easily too.

Don't forget that this game is a fan-game. Therefore, its not going to onto the market (i don't think) and so, as long as we get permission, then the issue of copyright should not be a problem.

Personally, if i were a newcomer to the cmoic and i saw there was a Furrae game, i would be pretty disappointed if the cast was just made up of fan created characters.

Netami: Exactly. I'd kick your arse and win easily.

[ITOS]

I assume that the DMFA cast would be NPCs?

[Gareeku]

But that wouldn't be as good. I'm pretty sure a lot of DMFA would want the opportunity to play as someone like Dan, Merlitz, Alzan, or even Mab, maybe. Not to be given that opportunity would get people irked, i think.

[Tapewolf]

It's based in the DMFA universe, yes. Therefore, one would presume there would be characters from DMFA. The only characters in the comic which aren't hers are aaryanna, merlitz and Azlan. Dan has been given to Mab by his creator, so him and all the other characters (sans cameos) are all Ambers, and we can ask permission from Azlan quite easily too.

There's also Jyrras, but he seems to have been adopted by Amber anyway.  No idea about Lorenda.  Wildy is around anyway.

Don't forget that this game is a fan-game. Therefore, its not going to onto the market (i don't think) and so, as long as we get permission, then the issue of copyright should not be a problem.

I just like to play it safe

But that wouldn't be as good. I'm pretty sure a lot of DMFA would want the opportunity to play as someone like Dan, Merlitz, Azlan, or even Mab, maybe. Not to be given that opportunity would get people irked, i think.

Not being able to create your own character would irk a lot of people too.  But then I always was a fan of Warren Spector's games.

Deus Ex was quite cleverly designed so that it would draft in Tracer or Alex for one of the dialogues if Paul was dead, and it would do similar things for Maggie Chow and various other characters, so it's not impossible to do both.
Azlan and Mab should be blacklisted though, they're Fae and nearly all-powerful which would wreck the game 

[Jack McSlay]

as far as engine goes, how good the PC will have to be to run it it's up to how flexible and well-written the engine is made. if you take Tremor http://tremor.quakedev.com/ it's an engine that does amazing graphics yet is able to run on something as slow as a PII-300

so I'd say modifying an engine like tremor could be a quick start for a 3d game

[Tapewolf]

as far as engine goes, how good the PC will have to be to run it it's up to how flexible and well-written the engine is made. if you take Tremor http://tremor.quakedev.com/ it's an engine that does amazing graphics yet is able to run on something as slow as a PII-300

so I'd say modifying an engine like tremor could be a quick start for a 3d game

That looks like an indoor engine to me.  If the game was based entirely within SAIA that might be okay, but I'd prefer to be out in the open a little more, like in Ultima 9 or something.  Unless he's pulled off some kind of miracle, it's still based on CSG and won't be able to support hyperspatial geometry like Mab's cupboard.

I'd like to see what Irrlicht can do myself.

[Aridas]

Jazz Jackrabbit 3, which was based off the Unreal engine, had a cool effect where the shop was a pretty small area, but when you stepped in, they did... something to make it so you ended up inside the (bigger) shop... while everything looked normal from either side, since the other characters and things moved around almost as if nothing was wrong. Too bad the game itself had plenty of graphical and technical bugs (being an unfinished, barely begun piece of work), and the lighting was horrendous. But hey, it's worth the mention since it relates to the subject. Even if it doesn't add anything of value >_>

[Tapewolf]

Jazz Jackrabbit 3, which was based off the Unreal engine, had a cool effect where the shop was a pretty small area, but when you stepped in, they did... something to make it so you ended up inside the (bigger) shop...

It's done using portal mechanics.  I think Unreal is the only commercial engine since Duke3D and Descent which supports that effect - I wish it was done more often
That's exactly what I'd like to see for Mab's cupboard, but I don't know if Irrlicht supports it.  I know for sure that Quake does not which is one of the reasons I dislike it.

[tkg]

Personally, I can't help you much with the engine.  General program logic I could probably help with, but no 3D-related algorithms.  Assuming you program the game in a reasonably sensible manner (fopen instead of CreateFile etc) I can also port it to Linux.  If it doesn't run in Linux, which is where I spend most of my time.

If the world editor is reasonably straightforward I might be able to help you with that, although I've never done much collaborative work before, and I don't know what the operating principle of the Irrlicht environment is.

I might not need so much help with the actual coding, but I could use some guidance as for what works in Linux and what doesn't. Irrlicht's feature page states that it is platform independent, but I haven't had the opportunity to test this myself.

Beware - this was one of my Doom levels : http://it-he.org/doom.htm#smb
..the Doom community still cannot decide whether it was good or bad.

Hehe, I read about it a while back on that very site. Not having played the WAD myself, all I can say is that it looks... pretty confusing

I can also help with writing, world consistency etc, to say nothing of audio, and to some extent textures.

Some contribution in these fields would help quite a lot, as it would make for a more believeable game-world. Maybe you could have a go at the world builder once it's done as well? I'm doing my best to make it as user-friendly as possible, but if you have ever tried the editor for Morrowind, using it should be a doddle



In regards to all the discussion about whether the DMFA cast should be included in the game or not: Perhaps it could work so that you could create your own character in the beginning (with a lot of customization options available), and there are presets for each of the cast characters? In any case, playing as a main character obviously would need somewhat differing gameplay to go with it as well... which could make things a bit complicated. Personally, I like Amber's idea about having them as sidekicks better, as it would make the scripting much easier methinks

Jazz Jackrabbit 3, which was based off the Unreal engine, had a cool effect where the shop was a pretty small area, but when you stepped in, they did... something to make it so you ended up inside the (bigger) shop...

It's done using portal mechanics.  I think Unreal is the only commercial engine since Duke3D and Descent which supports that effect - I wish it was done more often
That's exactly what I'd like to see for Mab's cupboard, but I don't know if Irrlicht supports it.  I know for sure that Quake does not which is one of the reasons I dislike it.

Is this (<- linkage to YouTube video) anywhere close to what you're speaking about? If so, Irrlicht does indeed support it (not natively, but it's possible none-the-less)

[Caswin]

There's also Jyrras, but he seems to have been adopted by Amber anyway.  No idea about Lorenda.  Wildy is around anyway.

Lorenda is an original Amber character.  She was originally a feline Amazon in Furcadia, as I recall.

[Tapewolf]

Assuming you program the game in a reasonably sensible manner (fopen instead of CreateFile etc) I can also port it to Linux.  If it doesn't run in Linux, which is where I spend most of my time.

I might not need so much help with the actual coding, but I could use some guidance as for what works in Linux and what doesn't.

It looks like Irrlicht can handle nearly everything you need in a platform independent manner, even file I/O.  I don't see anything for keyboard/mouse input or audio systems, though.  If you use SDL for those, it should almost be a matter of just recompiling it.

Beware - this was one of my Doom levels : http://it-he.org/doom.htm#smb
..the Doom community still cannot decide whether it was good or bad.

Hehe, I read about it a while back on that very site. Not having played the WAD myself, all I can say is that it looks... pretty confusing

It was designed to be strikingly different :twisted

Maybe you could have a go at the world builder once it's done as well? I'm doing my best to make it as user-friendly as possible, but if you have ever tried the editor for Morrowind, using it should be a doddle

I'd love to.  I haven't played Morrowind, though - in fact I haven't played with any 3D worldbuilder since giving up on Quake, more-or-less.

Personally, I like Amber's idea about having them as sidekicks better, as it would make the scripting much easier methinks

Yes.

["Insides and outsides are different dimensions." -- Tom Baker]
It's done using portal mechanics.  I think Unreal is the only commercial engine since Duke3D and Descent which supports that effect - I wish it was done more often
That's exactly what I'd like to see for Mab's cupboard, but I don't know if Irrlicht supports it.  I know for sure that Quake does not which is one of the reasons I dislike it.

Is this (<- linkage to YouTube video) anywhere close to what you're speaking about? If so, Irrlicht does indeed support it (not natively, but it's possible none-the-less)

I've never seen it done in a freestanding object before, or so seamlessly, but that's it, yes.  I never knew they actually finished Prey.
It's usually simpler to have the portal in a doorway or something, but yes.  You can have a hut in the middle of a field, and if you go inside, it has a corridor leading off to the distance.. that sort of thing.
One of the things I always wanted to do was change the portal linkages dynamically and have the player on a train.  They go from one car to another, when they turn around to go back, the door is leading to a third car instead of the first one.

**EDIT**

Here's an add-on for portal effects:
http://www.irrlicht3d.org/pivot/entry.php?id=267

**EDIT EDIT**
Scratch that, it will only work on DirectX.

[Jack McSlay]

as far as I know, the only recent engine which supports sectors and portals natively  is Crystal Space. and I'm not sure if it supports overlapping sectors, and even if they do, I highly doubt you could make a level using GTKRadiant or Blender and then export it directly and have it work.

if we're planning to add such kind of geometry I think the safest solution is to actually add portal mechanics half-life/prey style

or, depending on how the game will play we coult have simpler solutions. for example, if it's going go play like Ninja Gaiden / Zelda where we have scene changes/camera transitions while the player exits a room and enters another we can just teleport the player to another area.

and seriously... let's disconsider Unreal... UnrealEd is a true nightmare

[KarlOmega1]

Give me DMFA Dating RPG or give me DMFA fighters: MK edition!

[tkg]

**EDIT**

Here's an add-on for portal effects:
http://www.irrlicht3d.org/pivot/entry.php?id=267

**EDIT EDIT**
Scratch that, it will only work on DirectX.

His portals are drawn into the stencil buffer by using funcions that are exclusive to D3D - I would much rather use the render-to-texture function in Irrlicht instead, which would look just as well (and is in addition supported by all graphics drivers available to Irrlicht).

and seriously... let's disconsider Unreal... UnrealEd is a true nightmare

I couldn't agree more... the engine itself is good and all, but the editor's interface is just terrible in my eyes. If it hasn't had a vast improvement since Unreal I, that is



Now, I would really like some more feedback on the style used in the concept model of Dan. Just how far is it from what you would want to see in-game (and we're still talking 3D here, FYI )? Or alternatively, what part(s) of it would you rather see different?

Keep in mind that I will add a morphing routine at a later development stage, so that the faces can be morphed beyond the recognizable, if one so desires. However, getting them to show all the expressions seen in the comic is probably not feasible though - we could instead use portraits that would pop up whenever there's a conversation going on, just like in many (if not most) Japanese CRPG's... although implementing this idea would require a whole lot more art to be drawn.

On a more positive note, there isn't so much character modelling needed as you may probably think; the base of Dan's head can be used for all other feline characters, just with different settings (think of how The Sims 2 handles this, for instance). The same can be done regarding the rest of their bodies as well, which drastically reduces the amount of modelling required. Creating buildings should also be just a matter of putting prefabricated parts together in the world builder. Simplifying things wherever possible, you might say

And now for the current team status (not binding in any case, mind you):
* Character modeller(s) - TKG, Jack McSlay
* Generic modeller(s) - Aridas Soulfire, Jack McSlay (and Shadrok, perhaps?)
* Texture artist(s) - JP Morris, Jack McSlay
* 2D/sprite artist(s) - JP Morris, Jack McSlay
* World designer(s) - JP Morris, Aridas Soulfire, Tezkat, Jack McSlay
* Sound producer(s) - JP Morris, Aridas Soulfire, Jack McSlay
* Music composer(s) - TKG, Aridas Soulfire, Jack McSlay
* Story/script writer(s) - JP Morris, Gareeku, Jack McSlay, Aldoun, Damien Holtz, Seraline, TGH, James StarRunner
* Voice actor(s) - Tezkat, Gareeku, Jack McSlay, JP Morris, James StarRunner
* Quality assurance (which includes play-testing and the like) - to early yet to even consider

Note that I only listed the content creation aspects of this project, as I regard the game engine and world builder as separate projects. If you have any ideas/objections/thoughts to add, I would appreciate it muchly.

Whew...  I apologize for the long post - feel free to go 'tl;dr' on me as you see fit


Edit: Updated the team status list (if I missed something, please tell me and I'll have it fixed ASAP).

[Aridas]

I could probably help a miniscule amount with sound and music, I think it would be fun. I'd apply as a generic modeller but I suck at that, I think. Maybe some other things depending on how easy they are..

<.< >.>

world designer sounds easy... And you can never have too many of those...

[Tezkat]

On copyright: Furrae in general are used all over the place and are not copyrightable.  Particular characters, like Mickey Mouse, Dan, Mab, etc. are very much copyrighted.  Make your own.

Note that Amber does not hold all the copyrights, which is why there are messages like "Somename (C) their player" all over the place.  This means that Amber has asked for and received permission from the copyright holder.  It does not mean that anyone can slap a note like that on their copyright violation to turn everything all right.

Just for the record... creating game based in Furrae would not necessarily constitute a derivative work of Amber's or anyone else's intellectual property. You cannot directly copyright characters or settings. Those little "Somename (c) their player" things you see are nods of respect to the creators of the characters, but they don't necessarily have legal significance. Indeed, when the only "published" instance of said characters is in an MMO, they may legally be the property of the game developers, not the players.

IP law is complicated and especially sticky in the post-DMCA world. But it's not likely to be a huge problem for a fan game like this one.

So, I will question this: If you are indeed interested, what aspect of development are you willing/able to help out with? And how much time would you see yourself spending on it (per week, for instance)? That is all... for now.

Hmm... Tezkat could help with...

- Voice acting   
- Game mechanics
- Level design/writing/storyboarding

Or just random advice/suggestions. I've put some thought into mechanics for DMFA-based RPGs (not for computer RPGs specifically, but the general design principles should translate). I also got more than my fill of 3D graphics programming when I had to code an OpenGL-based game engine for a course in university.  I'm not likely to have much time to contribute to the code, but depending on your development schedule, I may be able to help with some of the funner stuff like AI and scripting engines.

I don't have time to manage a SCUMM game, and your mesh for Dan is pretty good - but I still think the number of 3D modellers here can be counted on one hand.  Shadrok is good, but I've only ever seen him do aircraft and other inorganic models, IIRC.

The paucity of 3D artists in our community may not be that big a deal...

With skeleton-based animation, you only have to animate things once and then have everyone else use the same bones for modelling. You can find plenty of animations out there for basic actions like walking, running, sitting, swinging swords, and so on.

Probably the best solution, actually, would be to offload all of that mesh stuff onto the character generation routines. With very few exceptions (animals, dragons, non-biped gryphons, mows...), all the inhabitants of Furrae belong to one of the character races--which are essentially the same humanoid model with slightly different heads, tails, and wings. Very few people would care if the oddball races like Mer and Insectis were removed. Mythos... well... taur support could be tricky, but you could just make a design decision not to include tauric Mythos or Cubi. Cubi wing tentacles could be a bit complicated to animate as well, but wings/tails/tentacles would work as attachments with their own animation systems.

So... if character meshes are largely procedurally generated, the only 3D modelling left for content developers would be worldbuilding--landscape, buildings, furniture, and so on. Tons of people here have demonstrated the ability to do that in Second Life. Things like weapons are also easy to do. Clothing could be tricky depending on how pretty or customizable you wanted it to be, but you could get away with building a few basic clothing templates into the char gen and then offloading the rest to the texture/skinning folks. Armour is virtually nonexistent in Amber's Furrae anyway.

Some contribution in these fields would help quite a lot, as it would make for a more believeable game-world. Maybe you could have a go at the world builder once it's done as well? I'm doing my best to make it as user-friendly as possible, but if you have ever tried the editor for Morrowind, using it should be a doddle

Is that the kind of game you're going for? I never did get around to modding Morrowind, but I have spent time fiddling with the construction set for Oblivion.

Oblivion has such nifty NPC behaviour. I've wasted hours just following people around and eavesdropping on conversations. And you can record your own dialog!

I've never seen it done in a freestanding object before, or so seamlessly, but that's it, yes.  I never knew they actually finished Prey.

Prey shipped a month ago. And just in case you want a game with even more portal abuse... 

Keep in mind that I will add a morphing routine at a later development stage, so that the faces can be morphed beyond the recognizable, if one so desires. However, getting them to show all the expressions seen in the comic is probably not feasible though - we could instead use portraits that would pop up whenever there's a conversation going on, just like in many (if not most) Japanese CRPG's... although implementing this idea would require a whole lot more art to be drawn.

With sufficiently simple and cartoonish models, you could get away with expressing emotions entirely through changing facial textures. Otherwise you'd need actual facial animation (the way Oblivion does it, for instance). The 2D art thing might not be very practical if you let worldbuilders create their own characters.

On a more positive note, there isn't so much character modelling needed as you may probably think; the base of Dan's head can be used for all other feline characters, just with different settings (think of how The Sims 2 handles this, for instance). The same can be done regarding the rest of their bodies as well, which drastically reduces the amount of modelling required. Creating buildings should also be just a matter of putting prefabricated parts together in the world builder. Simplifying things wherever possible, you might say

Yeah... I sorta mentioned that above. Prefab parts may actually be a bit limiting if there's a very small pool of modellers and level builders from which to draw (or if they're the same people!), though they do open up other interesting options (optimization of the AI's world representation, for instance).

[Gareeku]

*Signs up for voice acting (if needed), stories, character profiles and bios*

[Jack McSlay]

Now, I would really like some more feedback on the style used in the concept model of Dan. Just how far is it from what you would want to see in-game (and we're still talking 3D here, FYI )? Or alternatively, what part(s) of it would you rather see different?

the shape of the head looks fine. I just think the eyes aren't too DMFA-stylish

And now for the current team status (not binding in any case, mind you):
* Character modeller(s) - I might take care of this if necessary
* Generic modeller(s) - Shadrok, perhaps? Haven't asked yet
* Texture artist(s) - JP Morris
* World designer(s) - JP Morris
* Sound producer(s) - JP Morris
* Music composer(s) - I could maybe throw in something here if needed
* Quality assurance (which includes play-testing and the like) - to early yet to even consider

Note that I only listed the content creation aspects of this project, as I regard the game engine and world builder as separate projects. If you have any ideas/objections/thoughts to add, I would appreciate it muchly.

Whew...  I apologize for the long post - feel free to go 'tl;dr' on me as you see fit

I could lend a hand on Texture, World modelling, character modelling, 2d art voice acting, weapon and character design, proggramming, story and maybe a few music - I often make up a buncha VG-like songs in my mind, but I still need to get a grip on a good sequencing software

[tkg]

I could probably help a miniscule amount with sound and music, I think it would be fun. I'd apply as a generic modeller but I suck at that, I think. Maybe some other things depending on how easy they are..

<.< >.>

world designer sounds easy... And you can never have too many of those...

That's probably something we could need plenty of, yes
I'll just assign you to all of the roles you mentioned for now, though.

Hmm... Tezkat could help with...

- Voice acting   
- Game mechanics
- Level design/writing/storyboarding

Or just random advice/suggestions. I've put some thought into mechanics for DMFA-based RPGs (not for computer RPGs specifically, but the general design principles should translate). I also got more than my fill of 3D graphics programming when I had to code an OpenGL-based game engine for a course in university.  I'm not likely to have much time to contribute to the code, but depending on your development schedule, I may be able to help with some of the funner stuff like AI and scripting engines.

Alright, I'll just go ahead and put you on all of the above then, if you don't mind
You could always specialize later on, if we get enough people on the project.

I don't have time to manage a SCUMM game, and your mesh for Dan is pretty good - but I still think the number of 3D modellers here can be counted on one hand.  Shadrok is good, but I've only ever seen him do aircraft and other inorganic models, IIRC.

The paucity of 3D artists in our community may not be that big a deal...

With skeleton-based animation, you only have to animate things once and then have everyone else use the same bones for modelling. You can find plenty of animations out there for basic actions like walking, running, sitting, swinging swords, and so on.

Probably the best solution, actually, would be to offload all of that mesh stuff onto the character generation routines. With very few exceptions (animals, dragons, non-biped gryphons, mows...), all the inhabitants of Furrae belong to one of the character races--which are essentially the same humanoid model with slightly different heads, tails, and wings. Very few people would care if the oddball races like Mer and Insectis were removed. Mythos... well... taur support could be tricky, but you could just make a design decision not to include tauric Mythos or Cubi. Cubi wing tentacles could be a bit complicated to animate as well, but wings/tails/tentacles would work as attachments with their own animation systems.

Traditional animation systems would work well for this game, perhaps, but I still have plans for a target-based, physically driven animation system for my game engine.

On your second paragraph, that's almost exactly what I had in mind as well

Clothing could be tricky depending on how pretty or customizable you wanted it to be, but you could get away with building a few basic clothing templates into the char gen and then offloading the rest to the texture/skinning folks. Armour is virtually nonexistent in Amber's Furrae anyway.

One nice way of doing clothing is to just extract the faces from the general purpose body mesh where the fabric will be covering, and just build on that. Slightly off-topic, perhaps, but I do intend to implement a simple form of cloth simulation for draped cloth and long hair, which could make the clothing more interesting.

Some contribution in these fields would help quite a lot, as it would make for a more believeable game-world. Maybe you could have a go at the world builder once it's done as well? I'm doing my best to make it as user-friendly as possible, but if you have ever tried the editor for Morrowind, using it should be a doddle

Is that the kind of game you're going for? I never did get around to modding Morrowind, but I have spent time fiddling with the construction set for Oblivion.

Oblivion has such nifty NPC behaviour. I've wasted hours just following people around and eavesdropping on conversations. And you can record your own dialog!

Yes, the game engine will be designed with free-form (or sandbox, if you prefer) games in mind.
I've actually never played Oblivion before, but my brothers used to a while back. I didn't see them using the construction set though, so I have no idea how it works compared to the Morrowind one. And yes, the NPC behaviour could be amusing at times

With sufficiently simple and cartoonish models, you could get away with expressing emotions entirely through changing facial textures. Otherwise you'd need actual facial animation (the way Oblivion does it, for instance). The 2D art thing might not be very practical if you let worldbuilders create their own characters.

Using facial textures might perhaps work out, as long as it looks good from all angles. I could try it out on another instance of the concept mesh to see how well it fares.

*Signs up for voice acting (if needed), stories, character profiles and bios*

You got it

Now, I would really like some more feedback on the style used in the concept model of Dan. Just how far is it from what you would want to see in-game (and we're still talking 3D here, FYI )? Or alternatively, what part(s) of it would you rather see different?

the shape of the head looks fine. I just think the eyes aren't too DMFA-stylish

Hmm, well... they were designed from this wallpaper (which is the one I used for reference to create the model, by the way), but I probably messed up somewhere

I could lend a hand on Texture, World modelling, character modelling, 2d art voice acting, weapon and character design, proggramming, story and maybe a few music - I often make up a buncha VG-like songs in my mind, but I still need to get a grip on a good sequencing software

Great - we're starting to get together a team already, albeit small still.

As for good sequencing software, I'm not sure what you'd consider good, but Fruity Loops works well enough for me at least *makes ready to dodge incoming rotten tomatoes*


Edit: The topic summary thing makes overseeing posts a walk in the park, it seems...

[RJ]

Seems like you guys are really getting into this! Just make sure you don't spread yourselves too thin on this though.