Furrae/DMFA CRPG project (modellers/concept artists wanted)

[Caswin]

As long as you put nudity in there somewhere, we'll be all good.

Define 'good'... <.<

[Gareeku]

*coughfurraefightinggamecough* >_>

*coughfurraedatingsimgamecough* <_<

*coughstopbeingapervitsgettingonpeople'snervescough*

[RJ]

Hehe, Nurse RJ would be able to heal your wounds...

*grins and picks up the giant thermometer*

[Rowne]

Nurse RJ and Doctor Ink?  Verily, I shudder to think.

Actually, I had to add soemthing positive to this because the kind of games mentioned wouldn't be too hard.

For example, perhaps not nessescarily a dating sim but a more Japanese adventure game in the ilk of Phoenix Wright might be a blast.  It doesn't require a very complex engine or a lot of art.  Simply make it an investigative game.  Furrae Noir would certainly tickle me pink.

Who wouldn't want to see one of the DMFA cast as a gumshoe?

The fighting option is also easy, all we'd need for that is the following ...

o Background artist.
o Music artist.
o Sprite / pixel artist.
o Designer / balancer.
o Coder / scripter.

I can already think of a few people to fill those roles, if we used one of the established engines such as MUGEN or KOF91 (or perhaps one of the more recent ones that I might not be aware of, suggestions?), then we could simply script the characters.  It's a relatively easy process.

In fact, these particular games would be much easier than creating a 3D World.  I like that idea but it's very ambitious, a lofty goal to be sure and perhaps when it comes to creating games for the DMFA community, we should start small, thinking small and then work our way up the ladder.  With this rationale, we might actually end up with a few games worthy of presenting to Amber.

Anyway, I just had to cite those because when it comes to those genrés, I see indie developers creating those kinds of games all the time.

(Edit: Whoops, couple of horrible typos there.)

[Reese Tora]

I like the idea of making a DMFA based game, but I think you might want to steer clear of furrae specifically.  So far as I know, furrae in general is part of the game Furcadia, and would be copywrite as such.



It would be awful if your work was stymied by a C&D because of copywrite issues.  DMFA is copywrite too, but I think that Amber would be willing to grant her blessings to any game-making attempt.

[Aridas]

The problem with making a game in a genre that everyone else has made a game for is that it's just downright boring. I don't know about you, but I think something remotely original in concept should be made of a project like this. I think someone was already trying to pull together a team for a fighting game (based on a picture that had come up at the time) and that fell apart fast.

[Sketchy boy]

I draw stuff for you if you whant. Like clothing ideas, battle items, etc.  Ill try hard.

This fighter pic? http://www.mabsland.com/ArtGroup/Fighter.jpg

[Aridas]

Yeah, that was the one, I think. People talked on and on about making it a reality, I think... but nothing went anywhere, I think. I didn't pay attention long x_X

[Sketchy boy]

Nah, it was a bust.  Nothing really happend that i know of.

[thegayhare]

XIII's graphics weren't bad, but I can't say the same about the rest of the game.

Actualy I liked alot of XIII's game play, especialy the improvised weapons, and storyline

But I admit the god damn cliffhanger ticked me right off

I like the Idea of mixing dating game aspects with adventure gameing, and the ability to select creature types and species would be great,  I'sd also add the possibility of a pet to the game

you know like Pip is with Mab  maybe you could find your own drake (or mow or...) in the wild,  you'd have to earn it's trust with food, or toys (a mix of good, evil and nutreal pets with differnt likes as well as differnt speices likes would also be cool)  once you get it's trus you could start training it  to preform certain tasks on command and you could maybe have a little thing so you could customise your pet (clothing, accesories, and as well as enhancments)

[KarlOmega1]

*coughfurraefightinggamecough* >_>

*coughfurraedatingsimgamecough* <_<

*coughstopbeingapervitsgettingonpeople'snervescough*

*coughihavenonervesimaslimemonster,justkiddingcough*

[Roureem Egas]

I must remember to ask Nurse RJ to blast, uh, treat you all with her muffins. Yeah.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

...you could maybe have a little thing so you could customise your pet (clothing, accesories, and as well as enhancments)

Hmm. Sortof like Mab has a toy for Pip (Dan) ? :-)

[Rowne]

When the fighting game was talked about, did it have any direction?  Did anyone lay down any fighting styles for the characters or suggest an engine?  I think that with all the talent we have around here (and we have plenty), it could happen providing we have that direction.  I think we'd just have to twist the arm of one of our fighting game afficianados in order to get that basic draft, that'd be a good start.

I'm talking about viable characters, their stages, intros, endings, moves, combos and style of game.  Also, I'm looking at you, Gareeku.  If not, I could work with a friend of mine who knows nothing about DMFA, I could get him to read the archives and then I could talk with him about fighting game ideas.  I think that'd be the first step though.  Once we have that, it's the biggest step forward.

Admittedly, the hardest part is that this is going to be hell on the sprite animators.  They have to animate walking and jumping for every character, not to mention the moves and the super moves.  They might also have to animate certain set pieces for the background sets.  Do we have anyone nutty and dedicated enough here to do that?

Once that's done ... the easiest step is the backgrounds and the music.  I think that we have some truly talented artists here who could submit pieces for those and we'd just have to slap them into the game.  Finally, one of us (I'd be up for this) would have to learn or relearn the scripting code for a fighting engine of choice and actually put the whole thing together.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud.

[Gareeku]

*Is looked at * o.o

I'd be only too happy to dicuss fighting game ideas with you. I'll post some up when I get back from work later.

[Rowne]

I figure that if anyone is apt enough for it, it's you.  I'd try but I admit to having a problem when it comes to silly ideas, often too silly to be balanced, which doesn't make me the best person to actually sort the design out.

I am, however, more than happy to discuss possible moves and abilities for different characters, stuff that would be relevant to them and them alone.

For example; I really want to see Jyrras in one of those drivable walker-mecha.  Much akin to Steve in Dark Cloud II or Waffle's methodus transporti in Tail Concerto.  Somehow, that just seems very right to me.

----

We should probably create a thread in the gaming subforum actually and start discussing ideas there in earnest, rather than hijacking this thread.

[Aridas]

I think people kinda went into discussing what moves they'd all have and that might've been it. Like I said, I wasn't paying enough attention to remember so far back.

[Tapewolf]

I'm talking about viable characters, their stages, intros, endings, moves, combos and style of game.  Also, I'm looking at you, Gareeku.  If not, I could work with a friend of mine who knows nothing about DMFA, I could get him to read the archives and then I could talk with him about fighting game ideas.  I think that'd be the first step though.  Once we have that, it's the biggest step forward.

Admittedly, the hardest part is that this is going to be hell on the sprite animators.  They have to animate walking and jumping for every character, not to mention the moves and the super moves.  They might also have to animate certain set pieces for the background sets.  Do we have anyone nutty and dedicated enough here to do that?

First I'll say that I really wanted a point-and-click adventure.  With fanfic writers like Gareeku we could put together a pretty decent storyline.  Maybe one based on Furrae Chronicles.. but I digress.

When you say 'fighting game' are you thinking in terms of 'One Must Fall' or something like that?  I've never really liked those, so I'm not entirely sure what is required of them, however it should be pretty simple to achieve.
At a guess all you'd really need would be a projector loop, a script system to control it and some kind of hotspot-based collision detection.  If the characters have to be able to move around and jump onto things it gets harder, but for a track-based adventure or something like OMF (as I remember it) the physics are mostly handled by the animation strips.

Am I missing anything?

[Stig Hemmer]

On copyright: Furrae in general are used all over the place and are not copyrightable.  Particular characters, like Mickey Mouse, Dan, Mab, etc. are very much copyrighted.  Make your own.

Note that Amber does not hold all the copyrights, which is why there are messages like "Somename (C) their player" all over the place.  This means that Amber has asked for and received permission from the copyright holder.  It does not mean that anyone can slap a note like that on their copyright violation to turn everything all right.

[Jack McSlay]

if I remember correctly, on the last talk we've had on the subject  we've discarded the idea of a 3d game not only because a 2D game would give a better DMFA feel, but also because we woudn't get half as many artists at our disposal as if we were going to do 2d.

on the other hand, I doubt  that if it was to be a fighting game a 2d game would be an easier idea.
there is a reason why 2d fighting games are aways reusing their sprites while 3d fighting games come up with fresh new visuals for every character every game.

besides, I really don't see DMFA as a traditional fighting game, with special moves, super bar and such. I think the only way to do a DMFA fighting game is along the roots of Super Smash Bros.

[bill]

*coughfurraefightinggamecough* >_>

*coughfurraedatingsimgamecough* <_<

*coughstopbeingapervitsgettingonpeople'snervescough*

*coughihavenonervesimaslimemonster,justkiddingcough*

*coughohcrapguystheressomethingstuckundermyspacebarcough*

[Caswin]

I think people kinda went into discussing what moves they'd all have and that might've been it. Like I said, I wasn't paying enough attention to remember so far back.

We weren't actually trying to "make it a reality".  The stated goal was to make a fictional walkthrough/movelist... and that flopped.

I'm still working on scripts, though. (Three and counting!)

[Aridas]

like I said, I can't remember that far back.

[Rowne]

Aridas: I can imagine.  That's why I said we'd need to elect a balancer right off the bat though, someone who can take silly ideas and work them into the game as moves, balancing them with other moves, lessening or strengthening things as nessescary or dismissing things that just won't work.

Without that, it's just a bunch of people shouting game ideas and what we'd end up with is Marvel vs Capcom 2, whilst that was a fun game to play, it was horribly unbalanced in its grandiose silly.

I think that if we had a more structured approach, this could be doable.  It just takes someone who knows fighting games inside and out to write all these ideas up in a way that leaves no fighter really underpowered or overpowered.

Tapewolf: I was actually thinking more along the lines of Guilty Gear, one of the more recent Asian 2D fighters, especially those that graced the Dreamcast.  The Dreamcast was the golden age of fighters, wot with all its Capcom games and the games from all the other companies that put in the effort.  I think I have every Dreamcast fighter in my collection and I still play them every now and then.

One Must Fall wouldn't work in this case I don't think.  It was a good game but it felt a bit too disjointed for what I'm thinking of, the reason for that is that everyone was in giant robots.  I wasn't thinking of putting everyone in giant robots this time.  When I was speaking of Jyrras, I was thinking of just him because he's so short.

For an example of how a mecha can work in a normal fighter, check out the police Dogs in Waku Waku 7.

As for what the fighter game would need, there are already pre-existing engines out there that can easily create the kinds of games we need.  For past-masterish examples, look up MUGEN and KOF91.  There're no doubt better versions of these available now but the awesome thing with both is that one could script their own fighters, their own backgrounds, title screen, intros, everything ... in fact one could build their own unique game from the ground up.

It's kind of like RPG Maker for 2D fighting games, except it's much, much more advanced.

As far as adventure games go, that's not a bad idea.  It's not a bad idea because there are engines for those too, good engines.  Especially the free Sierra-ish engine that's available.  AGS I think?  Anyway, with that engine, a good approach, a primary developer, someone writing up the story, a couple of artists and people suggesting ideas and puzzles, this could also take shape.  All it would really take is direction.

The reason I keep suggesting that we use existing engines instead of creating our own is because creating unique engines is the number one way that a game gets stuck in development hell.  That's what happened with Antilia (a furry MMO), apparently now they've switched to Ogre3D and they're making some progress.  However, by using an engine it's much easier and quicker to put a game together.  Dark Messiah of Might and Magic might've taken years longer had they decided to code their own engine instead of using Source.

Besides, I'm not sure we have the assets and the resources to code our own engine.  ... do we?

When it comes to Free or at least freely usable engines though, I already know of plenty and what I don't know of, I know where to look.

Sorry, I'm just sounding off and trying to be as helpful as I can here.

Stig: I don't think anything's a violation of copyright anyway unless it's being sold provided that a text or a notice is included saying what was created by who, listing which characters belong to which people and all.  It would also go down better if it were provided by Amber so if we did create a game worthy of sharing freely with the public, I'd say that we should give it to Amber and she could decide what to do with it, since she does have the creative rights to Furrae after all, if not all the copyrights.

The only reason I'd be worried is if we tried charging for any game, I don't think that'd go down well at all but I don't see a reason to do this.  I think most of us would be in game development in order to create something new under the DMFA banner, a labour of love then.  I don't think anyone would really be in it for the cash and with the uncertain nature of coyprights, I'm not sure that that would be wise.

The best system for pay anyway would be to setup a donation system that passes money along to Amber.  So folks could grab the game, play it and then donate a bit.  Perhaps we could even use this as a drive to help Dave.

Again, just hammering out thoughts.

Jack: Our sprites wouldn't have to be professional quality, nor would they have to have the animation count of a professional game.  I think that the reason sprites get reused a lot (and this is only in existing franchises) is because they're a known symbol.  Stick Ryu in something and it's likely going to sell no matter what it is.  That's pretty much how Marvel versus Capcom worked and this idea of reusing things over and over is primarily the forte of Capcom, who've made a lot of 2D fighters.

There are a lot of fighters out there and fighter franchises which don't recycle things like Capcom do, unfortunately these examples are less mainstream.  There are however examples of 3D fighting games reusing stuff too, like Tekken I believe, which seems to fall prey to this.  It's more of a matter of using characters that will make a game sell, I don't think it's because sprite animation is all that much more difficult.

Take a look at the sprite that Gareeku uses as his avatar, that level of quality and animation would do just fine and if we included a lot of variation and characters, we wouldn't have to worry too much about quality.  If you take a look at a place like Home of the Underdogs, there are a lot of fighters there.  Some of which have reached critical acclaim amongst fighting fans.  In fact the Japanese freeware scene has been releasing a lot of unique 2D fighters and shmups lately but I digress.

Anyway, if you look at the Underdogs, there are a lot of fighters there that don't have the greatest graphics but what they do have is a lot of variety, well balanced characters and good fighting mechanics.

In fact, if you're going to compare this effort with anything, I'd say that the homebrew fighters found on such sites are probably the best comparisons to make and I'd really suggest taking a look at those to understand basically where I'm coming from.  It's because of those that I'm sure that this can't be too hard.  If Japanese freeware developers can manage one every few months (some of these teams consisting of only one or two people), how hard can it be?

As for the kind of fighting game, I could see DMFA as a purist game but not as something along the lines of Street Fighter.  Again, I could see it being more like Guilty Gear, Waku Waku 7 or some of the more zany 2D fighters rather than Street Fighter, which despite its eccentricities, is very mainstream.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't do a SSMB game, it's just that I imagine that would take even more resources because it would be a 3D game, wouldn't it?  That would require modelling and skinning and that's far more difficult than making the homebrew fighters I'm thinking of.  The forum is big enough for multiple projects, so I could see both projects coming about if they had the support.

Again, all they need is focus and direction.

Bill: *coughgrabakeyboardcleanercough.*

----

Sorry that was so long, folks.  I just had a lot on my mind that I wanted to get out and into a post and I admit that I can be most ramblesome and blathersome when I'm doing so so I hope you can forgive me for that.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I'm still working on scripts, though. (Three and counting!)

Scripting the comic?

Have a look at the radio play stuff. I wrote up the full scripts for that....

[Rowne]

Just to interject quickly again ...

I found a nice site with a couple of engine links, such as AGS and KOF91.

Also, it looks like the KOF91 engine went open source, didn't know that.  That's rather nifty.

[Tapewolf]

As far as adventure games go, that's not a bad idea.  It's not a bad idea because there are engines for those too, good engines.  Especially the free Sierra-ish engine that's available.  AGS I think?  Anyway, with that engine, a good approach, a primary developer, someone writing up the story, a couple of artists and people suggesting ideas and puzzles, this could also take shape.  All it would really take is direction.

I think we certainly have the writing talent.  I've always had a problem with puzzles, though.  The real killer for this kind of thing is the art (and time).

Besides, I'm not sure we have the assets and the resources to code our own engine.  ... do we?

Depends on the complexity and the technology.  Don't forget that I have written a few 2D engines myself.  ( http://rotj.it-he.org )
..this is a tile-based adventure game.  Work has slowed to a trickle on that one, and I'm blaming the DMFA Radio Project, but I haven't forgotten it.  Indeed, I've asked a few forumites to do in-game portraits for me.  God, I must update that page, maybe add some of Shadrok's work to the screenshots.  Doesn't look like I'll have sufficient portraits for an August demo though.

One idea I had to quickly get a simple fight engine working would be to strip out the tile processor and most of the game logic, just using it as a projector and script engine.  If it was to be a SCUMM-type game it would probably be better to use AGS or one of the others such engines.

Take a look at the sprite that Gareeku uses as his avatar, that level of quality and animation would do just fine and if we included a lot of variation and characters, we wouldn't have to worry too much about quality.

I don't know where the original animation came from.  Shadrok did the wolf conversion on it though.

[Rowne]

Ah, I didn't know you'd done an engine.  That's neat!

The only point I was trying to make though was that if we were going with a specific type of game (SCUMM or 2D fighter), it means that our assets could be used to build the game itself (to script the moves, puzzles, et cetera) rather than spending time on building the engine.

If however you want to build an engine, then that's awesome.  I just didn't want to suggest that anyone should have to because we have other options should no one wish to.

As for Gareeku's avatar, I actually blame that for this idea, to be honest.  It's a nice example of what we could have in a game.  It's a truly wonderful job on Shadrok's part.  Also, we don't really need to create new animations, what we could do (and others have done this in the past) is hijack characters from other fighting games, meld things together and change them to suit our needs, rather than building from the ground up.

The art is definitely the hardest part though, no doubt about it.  That's the part that worries me because it's going to take a hell of a lot of effort and loads of dedication and I'd feel bad subjecting any artist to that.  If anyone actually wanted to do it though, then that's groovy.

It's just that unlike for the code, we have no other options than to subject an artist to a lot of work to get a project like this done.

[Gareeku]

The original version of the sprite in my avatar is a Ryu sprite from the game "Namco X Capcom".

As far as coding and stuff goes, I know nothing of it. I would like to be able to help out in some shape or form though.

Also, while I agree with your view that a Furrae fighting game should be something like the Guilty Gear series, I was thinking of almost mixing it up a little bit. For example, take beings. They won't have the strength of a creature, so more than likely they would use a weapon, like in the Samurai Shodown series or, as mentioned, the Guilty Gear series. Above all, the game will need to be balanced. I don't like games which have characters that are distinctly "better", which is one of the only gripes i had with Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (which is a truely WONDERFUL fighting game, by the way).

One more thing: Merlitz/Blaze/any other flame-weilding character = Kyo Kusanagi and Iori Yagami from the King of Fighters series (is you don't know what i'm talking about, google it or something). I've actually noticed that fighting games made by SNK use a lot of "energy attacks" that i would expect magic users in Furrae to use.  Obviously there are some characters that i would not expect characters from Furrae to be like, but the same can be said for Capcom, Sammy etc.

And now I'm just talking rubbish... *sits in the corner*

[Zedd]

So many iders