11/08/2010 [PF #143] - By now, Ashford is just one big joke to Jakob

[ChaosMageX]

That's seriously how it's looking.

Even when being portrayed by cubi, paranoid conspiracy theorist beings are just one big walking joke.

Also, I love Joshua's expression in panel one!    Why would he be afraid of Ashford?  Does he think Ashford will send a group of black op ninjas to assassinate him for his betrayal or something?

And Simeon also looks surprised in panel one as well.  Why is he surprised and why does he say oops in panel three?

Finally, I'm glad that we get to see Martha again in one panel of this comic.

[Lore]

I'm going to guess from Jakob spewing nonsense that he suspects "Ashford" is an impostor.

[Tapewolf]

Also, I love Joshua's expression in panel one!    Why would he be afraid of Ashford?  Does he think Ashford will send a group of black op ninjas to assassinate him for his betrayal or something?

I've modified the panel so you should be able see it a little bit more clearly (I love his expression too).  Joshua doesn't want Ashford to see him because he's essentially defected at this point.

And Simeon also looks surprised in panel one as well.  Why is he surprised and why does he say oops in panel three?

I'm not sure about the first panel myself, but he's still on-camera in panel 3 and has only just realised it.

[joshofspam]

I'm going to guess from Jakob spewing nonsense that he suspects "Ashford" is an impostor.

Well there's that or the real Commander was a paranoid person that thought that there was an organization called the Subtle paw that controlled a world wide conspiracy. Though it might be both.

Though Keaton at this stage might be a little late to be making threats. Joshua, Dorcan and page are alive. They make wonderful witnesses of the medical marvels that have been developed. Indeed this kind of levels the playing field for creatures and beings. A threat like that only helps Jacob's cause when he uses the three as witnesses. I mean some creatures might find it a more easier way to maintain their life's then all the hassle of sucking soul's and having adventures coming after you.

As for the A.I., they are life that in a way already exists. Just in another universe and time. They kind of fall closely with warp aci in my opinion.

If children are so sacred to her clan would Keaton still get in the way if children where helped with this tech?

Heh. Keaton wants that weapon so badly she even sounds like the Commander? She just wants it for a little payback with one clan right?

[Ren Gaulen]

If children are so sacred to her clan would Keaton still get in the way if children where helped with this tech?

Keaton does not want to get in the way of this technology. She is just acting the way Ashford would have acted. All she wants is to get Jakob's energy weapons.

Heh. Keaton wants that weapon so badly she even sounds like the Commander? She just wants it for a little payback with one clan right?

This is Keaton. She'll never stop with just revenge. She'll aim for world domination! Maybe.

[joshofspam]

If children are so sacred to her clan would Keaton still get in the way if children where helped with this tech?

Keaton does not want to get in the way of this technology. She is just acting the way Ashford would have acted. All she wants is to get Jakob's energy weapons.

Heh. Keaton wants that weapon so badly she even sounds like the Commander? She just wants it for a little payback with one clan right?

This is Keaton. She'll never stop with just revenge. She'll aim for world domination! Maybe.

I guess the hardest part of her plan (besides convincing Jacob to give them up) is to have the man power to use them.

Her with just a ray gone doesn't seem like an effective means to acquire all what she seeks. Though that might be why she wants Joshua back. A brainwashed person with an android body would make such a wonderful assassin with the right equipment.

Though her innerthoughts when going to make a deal with Joshua makes me sometimes wonder if Keaton has some kind of other interst in Joshua in the future. No not love, but more on the lines of interesting pet that just needs a little obedience training. Her view of Joshua seemingly like a young cubi seems to sound like it hit a cord with her clans one big taboo. Maybe I misinterpreted what she was stating in her head?

I'm heading to bed I think I'm becoming fragmented in the head again.

[Keleth]

Not sure why Joshua would immediately shirk his duties to his previous organization and..well defect so badly.

He could just go back to work, and just refuse to take missions regarding to Johnathon Cross.

It just seems weird. Most people don't just abondon ties to family, friends, co-workers and their careers just like that.


Usually, unless they're weak willed pansies...then again..Joshua might fit that.


I don't know where I'm going with it at this point other than 

[Gabi]

Or he could have defected because his boss was insane.

[Madmann135]

Or he could have defected because his boss was insane.

If you take into consideration that Jakob saved Joshua's life (twice), politely avenged his death, played a few harmless pranks on him, gave him the grand tour, is giving beings the chance to live longer, is keeping his weapons under wraps, trying to end soul stealing by making souls cheap (you have to pay money but no revenge risks involved) and helped him face his fear of cubi I can understand why Joshua defected after being sent to steal from Jakob.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

It just seems weird. Most people don't just abondon ties to family, friends, co-workers and their careers just like that.

It's also possible that the organisation prefers agents who don't have strong familial ties; no friends, no family, no problems. His only tie is to co-workers and the organisation, and since they sent him to his death - literally, in fact. He'd be dead if JC hadn't interfered.

It strikes me that in that case, he may consider his ties to his organisation to be severed by death. Heck, contractually, he may have fulfilled his obligations and be considered a free man, were it to go to the courts, since he has, sort of, died in service.

Admittedly, the Org may be more likely to reward his "disloyalty" with a bullet to the back of the head and a shallow ditch in the back of some quiet country lane, rather than a full-up court case, but that's another argument entirely... Notwithstanding the way the bullet would probably now bounce off...

[Tapewolf]

It's also possible that the organisation prefers agents who don't have strong familial ties; no friends, no family, no problems. His only tie is to co-workers and the organisation, and since they sent him to his death - literally, in fact. He'd be dead if JC hadn't interfered.

Name: Joshua Oswald
Nicknames: Josh
Race/Species: Siberian Husky Being
Age: 27
Facebook: No family (orphan)

[Joshua's cast page]

[Ren Gaulen]

..This discussion of Joshua's allegiances just made me imagine Jakob (acting rather OOC) explaining Joshua why he is a better boss than Ashford.
"Hello, Joshua. Look at your boss. Now back to me. Now back to your boss. Now back to me. Sadly, your boss is a paranoid delusional megalomaniac - unlike me. But you don't have to go back to your boss; you can work for me instead! Look down. Back up. Where are you? You are in a secret research facility in the middle of the Arctic, with the man who saved your life twice. What's in your hand? I have it. It's a canister with artificial soul energy that will revolutionize Creature-Being relationships. Look again. THE CANISTER IS NOW SUNFLOWERS! Anything is possible when you work for me.
I'm on a dam."
Yes. I went there. If you don't know what I'm referencing, watch this.

[Inumo]

The only thing that surprises me about that (once I caught on) is that Jakob decided to use sunflowers. I would've guessed something like microchips, or motors.

[Ren Gaulen]

The only thing that surprises me about that (once I caught on) is that Jakob decided to use sunflowers. I would've guessed something like microchips, or motors.

Sunflower is now a legacy plant of Project Future.

[AmigaDragon]

I also understand you have been creating new life.

I'm wondering whether that is referencing the artificial (mindless) souls for consumption or the android bodies. The former isn't a life form, just a replacement energy source, while the latter isn't created life, it's just a transport system for existing life.

[James StarRunner]

..This discussion of Joshua's allegiances just made me imagine Jakob (acting rather OOC) explaining Joshua why he is a better boss than Ashford.
"Hello, Joshua. Look at your boss. Now back to me. Now back to your boss. Now back to me. Sadly, your boss is a paranoid delusional megalomaniac - unlike me. But you don't have to go back to your boss; you can work for me instead! Look down. Back up. Where are you? You are in a secret research facility in the middle of the Arctic, with the man who saved your life twice. What's in your hand? I have it. It's a canister with artificial soul energy that will revolutionize Creature-Being relationships. Look again. THE CANISTER IS NOW SUNFLOWERS! Anything is possible when you work for me.
I'm on a dam."
Yes. I went there. If you don't know what I'm referencing, watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkd5dJIVjgM

For those who haven't seen the variant from Sesame Street.

[Tapewolf]

I'm wondering whether that is referencing the artificial (mindless) souls for consumption or the android bodies. The former isn't a life form, just a replacement energy source, while the latter isn't created life, it's just a transport system for existing life.

IIRC it was the creation of the Undead race which caused these laws to be enacted.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

It's also possible that the organisation prefers agents who don't have strong familial ties; no friends, no family, no problems. His only tie is to co-workers and the organisation, and since they sent him to his death - literally, in fact. He'd be dead if JC hadn't interfered.

Name: Joshua Oswald
Nicknames: Josh
Race/Species: Siberian Husky Being
Age: 27
Facebook: No family (orphan)

[Joshua's cast page]

I was speaking more as a general organisational policy, rather than this specific case, but thanks for the info.

[Tapewolf]

I was speaking more as a general organisational policy, rather than this specific case, but thanks for the info.

Ashford's profile might also be illuminating.  Maybe I should extend it a little, but I'm not sure how much they're being read anyway.

[Gabi]

..This discussion of Joshua's allegiances just made me imagine Jakob (acting rather OOC) explaining Joshua why he is a better boss than Ashford.
"Hello, Joshua. Look at your boss. Now back to me. Now back to your boss. Now back to me. Sadly, your boss is a paranoid delusional megalomaniac - unlike me. But you don't have to go back to your boss; you can work for me instead! Look down. Back up. Where are you? You are in a secret research facility in the middle of the Arctic, with the man who saved your life twice. What's in your hand? I have it. It's a canister with artificial soul energy that will revolutionize Creature-Being relationships. Look again. THE CANISTER IS NOW SUNFLOWERS! Anything is possible when you work for me.
I'm on a dam."
Yes. I went there. If you don't know what I'm referencing, watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkd5dJIVjgM

For those who haven't seen the variant from Sesame Street.

I like the Sesame Street variant better.

[ChaosMageX]

I was speaking more as a general organisational policy, rather than this specific case, but thanks for the info.

Ashford's profile might also be illuminating.  Maybe I should extend it a little, but I'm not sure how much they're being read anyway.

I would definitely like you to extend it, as it would help reveal whether or not Ashford has a touch of schizoeffective disorder, among other things.
Because seriously, someone as paranoid and conspiracy oriented as Ashford has to be clinically messed up in the head at least a little bit.

Looking through Ashford's profile, this particular line describing the Starfire Intelligence Agency interests me:

...the Starfire Intelligence Agency, a group tasked with keeping the world relatively peaceful. The organisations main goal is to investigate and root out any large-scale threats.

I want to know how exactly the SI Agency ties in with the other law enforcing and interpreting agencies of the world.

In the time that DMFA occurs, as far as I've read into the comic and other information sources (though I might have forgotten some details from other DMFA comic pages or additional information on the website), the judicial and executive governing bodies of the world have failed to keep creatures in line and capital punish them properly for their transgressions, often merely fining them or possibly imprisoning them in a maximum security (strong enough to hold creatures) rehabilitation facility.
This is because creatures are governed over by fellow creatures, and transgressions between creatures and beings are hardly ever dealt with properly.
Because of this, the adventurer occupation was formed, acting a rough-knit vigilante/mercenary network that took the laws into their own hands and executed capital punishment on creatures for their transgressions.

One particular gray area in DMFA that has not been properly addressed IMO is the relationship between these adventurers and the higher organized law enforcement and judicial systems.
If adventurers operate as vigilantes/mercenaries outside the law, what stops the creature victims and their next-of-kin from filing criminal lawsuits against the adventurers?  I think what stops this from happening is the same principle that prevents creatures from being properly punished for transgressions against beings, only in reverse, since most adventurers are beings and are thusly governed over by fellow beings.

However, if this is the case, does the separation between beings and creatures act sort of like the separation between different countries and their governments?  Are there equivalents to diplomatic immunity and international incidents between beings and creatures?

Or are there laws in place that allow adventuring, following a convoluted process similar to not needing search warrants if due cause exists, only in this cause the adventurer wouldn't need a death warrant (which probably exists in Furrae).

Considering that adventurers have 'schools' that pass on skills of the adventuring vocation to the next generation, one would think that there are either death warrant circumvention laws in place to allow adventuring, or these schools are operated in the underground, roughly outside the law.  If it is the latter case, then adventuring schools must be more expensive than private schools, since they have no funding or support from their regional governments.

I should probably be asking the above questions in the DMFA forum, but they lead into my question: How are the Starfire Intelligence Agency and other organizations like it (if they exist, and probably do) related to adventurers and to the higher organized executive and judicial governing bodies of the world?

In the 150 years since the time that DMFA occurs in, did these organizations form from the convergence of adventurer groups into more organized bodies (possibly through their so-called 'schools'), or where they forged by the governments of the world of Furrae, or some combination of these two working in unison?

Either way, from the brief description of the Starfire Intelligence Agency given in Ashford's profile, it sounds as if they are a middle-ground between the adventurers and the judicial and executive governing bodies of the world, dealing with threats similar to those that adventurers deal with but too massive or dangerous for a single loosely organized adventuring group to handle.

[VAE]

One of the points - i guess that creature-operated bureaus operate so slowly that coupled with the dangers of adventurer lifestyle, the person in question is likely long dead by the time the charges are acted upon.
That and i suspect resorting to third party instead of dealing with problems yourself would be seriously looked down upon if you are a creature, especially if the problem in question is a being

[joshofspam]

It might all be a matter of appeasing the beings. After all, the creatures get away with a lot when it comes to going to court for a trial of demons killing beings. Sure the creatures could complain, but things like the dragon cubi war and other such happenings might have lead to a general avoidance of all out war. Also who wants your food stabbing you at first sight or wining at you every time you pass it by?

Demons might respect strength but that would probably get pretty dull if a milk run turned into a battle for your life every time and that probably would go more for the other creatures

Adventurers are the compromise possibly to the creatures going on rampages. Though one wonders if they have some kind of guild that sets rules for them?

Edit: It might be that adventures play no part in politics and in some cases though found tasteless, no creature has ever found a reason to complain about them except in family and casual discusion. Weird huh?

But on to the old spice and sesame street commercial. I like Sesame Street. Though I personally think clams go better with chowder and not tickets.

[Tapewolf]

I would definitely like you to extend it, as it would help reveal whether or not Ashford has a touch of schizoeffective disorder, among other things.
Because seriously, someone as paranoid and conspiracy oriented as Ashford has to be clinically messed up in the head at least a little bit.

I'm not really qualified to state authoritatively just what Ashford is actually suffering from...

Looking through Ashford's profile, this particular line describing the Starfire Intelligence Agency interests me:

I want to know how exactly the SI Agency ties in with the other law enforcing and interpreting agencies of the world.

Tricky.

Firstly, that's a very, very big subject area, and I'm not sure that Ashford's profile is really the best place for such a massive information dump.

Secondly, I try to be fairly circumspect about the post-DMFA era because the more concrete my description of it is, the more likely I am to create fatal consistency errors with DMFA, which ideally I'd prefer to minimize.

Thirdly, some of this has been thought out more recently that parts of the story and I'm a little wary of breaking something ;-)


I have an intimation of dread about actually codifying any of this.  I think it's a bad idea and I just know I'll come to regret it.  But since you ask, the basic idea - what's changed politically since DMFA - is this:

1. The world is pretty shaken up by the events during/following DMFA.
2. Some races go extinct or otherwise leave the stage as a result.

3. PF: During the upheaval (or even causing it) Beings have developed sophisticated weapons and magic inhibitors putting themselves on a more even keel with Creatures.
4.  PF: The Creature Council and Being-Creature Council is suspended/broken up following this upheaval, not least because they lost some races which has unbalanced things.
5. PF: A replacement organization has been set up, the Being-Creature Commission.  It tries to regulate things and keep the peace, but because Beings now have a much larger say (and some of the more heavy-hitting races are out of the picture) they have to use rather different methods.
6. PF: Organizations such as Starfire are used to perform intelligence-gathering and other operations to facilitate this.

As a result, life goes on almost as normal for the most part.  There are still adventurers, but not as many are needed since most sane Creatures are more careful.  There are still rampages and so on but these are generally the acts of lone individuals rather than something more organized like the hunting party that took out Devin and Xander.
In some ways the situation resembles a cold war - a suitably large atrocity might spark some kind of hot war, and that is not really in anyone's interest.


I can't promise I won't tweak or rethink this as time goes by 

[Lore]

I would definitely like you to extend it, as it would help reveal whether or not Ashford has a touch of schizoeffective disorder, among other things.
Because seriously, someone as paranoid and conspiracy oriented as Ashford has to be clinically messed up in the head at least a little bit.

I'm not really qualified to state authoritatively just what Ashford is actually suffering from...

I'd say he suffers from being dead.

[Ren Gaulen]

I'm not really qualified to state authoritatively just what Ashford is actually suffering from...

I'd say he suffers from being dead.

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!Yeah, he might want to consult a doctor on that one.

[Tapewolf]

I'd say he suffers from being dead.

Okay, was suffering from.  Sheesh, two proof-readers and that one still got through

[Gabi]

You have proofreaders for your forum posts?

[joshofspam]

I'd say he suffers from being dead.

Okay, was suffering from.  Sheesh, two proof-readers and that one still got through

Just an off branching question of the soul of the dear commander. Does being used to power his desk lamp drain his soul?

[AmigaDragon]

I'm wondering whether that is referencing the artificial (mindless) souls for consumption or the android bodies. The former isn't a life form, just a replacement energy source, while the latter isn't created life, it's just a transport system for existing life.

IIRC it was the creation of the Undead race which caused these laws to be enacted.

I know that. I'm wondering which created life "Ashford" is referring to, the artificial souls or the android replacement bodies... or something else.