08/21/2010 [PF #132] - There I was, a-digging this hole

[Madmann135]

I know what he is trying to say but he had a bad way of putting it.
I like Joshua's, Page's and R-Mac's deadpan faces.

[Amber Williams]

Kick you dad in the balls Niall.

I dunno about this continuity, but where I'm writing, telling someone to lower their mind-shields is a massive insult.  It'd be like asking a girl if you could inspect her ladybits to prove she's still a virgin.

[Tapewolf]

I dunno about this continuity, but where I'm writing, telling someone to lower their mind-shields is a massive insult.  It'd be like asking a girl if you could inspect her ladybits to prove she's still a virgin.

It's definitely not something he'd ask of a random stranger, no.  But Niall is family and Jakob has reason to believe that he's just betrayed his trust in a pretty terrible way.

And to be fair, Jakob is only interested in the night of the murder, not every time Niall has been to the bathroom or picked his nose or whatever.  Given DMFA 863 I've been assuming that there's a certain amount of granularity in the filtering.  For instance, Niall might not let it down completely, only enough to give his father an outline of it (Jakob would presumably ask for more detail as necessary).

So yeah, while Jakob could sit down and write a complete spec of the times he's interested in to determine whether Niall did or did not murder some poor Being, "Lower your mind shield" really a quick way of saying "Show me what you were doing on the night of the murder".

[Keleth]

For a race that knows all about shapeshifting.

It's funny that they require no proof to suddenly distrust people you've known for hundreds of years, and family.


Then again, maybe dem cubis got no respect.  /don voice

[Chairtastic]

For a race that knows all about shapeshifting.

It's funny that they require no proof to suddenly distrust people you've known for hundreds of years, and family.


Then again, maybe dem cubis got no respect.  /don voice

^This.

I can get why Joshua and Paige have the flat look, but why Wils?  Wouldn't this line of thought be common, especially among politics?

That is all.

[Tapewolf]

I can get why Joshua and Paige have the flat look, but why Wils?  Wouldn't this line of thought be common, especially among politics?

Wils is hiding behind Kris.  Mac is giving the flat look.

It's funny that they require no proof to suddenly distrust people you've known for hundreds of years, and family.

I'd go over pages 74 and 75 again.

[Keleth]

I read em again.

The thing his son did was install cards in the other guy.

The other guy who killed a man. So ...is his son held responsible? Did his son do something wrong?

He's not the one harboring a murderer

[Amber Williams]

And to be fair, Jakob is only interested in the night of the murder, not every time Niall has been to the bathroom or picked his nose or whatever.  Given DMFA 863 I've been assuming that there's a certain amount of granularity in the filtering.  For instance, Niall might not let it down completely, only enough to give his father an outline of it (Jakob would presumably ask for more detail as necessary).

To be counter-unfair, it doesn't help that my main impression of Jakob is not really a good one.  I kind of find him to be a bit of an unlikable douche who gets away with everything.  Which, considering I get the same commentary regarding Wildy, I realize is a bit hypocritical of me.  But eh, I realize that's how you wrote him and that's how the character is. I can understand it, I just don't really like it.

[Gabi]

Jakob does seem to get away with anything. So does Wildy, but she's not on the spotlight so often, so I think she adds a note of color to the strip. If I had to be with them, I'd be more afraid of Wildy than Jakob. But anyway, not all characters have to be nice. You/he/anyone can have a character who's a jerk and that doesn't make you/him/anyone a bad writer. People like them exist in the real world, so why can't characters like them exist in a comic?

[Lore]

I'm with Amber on this one. "Drop your mind shield" seems like a harsh and insulting reaction based primarily on the wild accusations of a stranger who just went through a soul transplant. I hope my father has more faith in me than that.

[Amber Williams]

I'm not saying that characters like that don't or shouldn't exist in a comic, and definately not slamming anyone's writing.  I assume that Jakob's portrayal is intentional because that is how the story goes...I just don't personally agree or enjoy it myself.  As I mentioned, Wildy often gets the same flak and impression...and yeah, that is sort of the point.  Diverse cast generally calls for diverse personalities.

But just because they are a necessity and exist and I appreciate the value they add to storytelling...it doesn't mean I can't wish them to get kicked in the balls from time to time.

[VAE]

Hmm, that's all nice and well, but i can imagine Jakob getting royally pissed about anyone impersonating Johan Cross ,especially his own son...
EDIT: Also, as far as i recognise, cubi aren't exactly known for being sweethearts

[Keleth]

Hmm, that's all nice and well, but i can imagine Jakob getting royally pissed about anyone impersonating Johan Cross ,especially his own son...

If he did it.

If I helped some random hobo into my house, and my dad walks in and that hobo screams "THAT MAN SINGLE HANDEDLY DESTROYED MY LIFE!"

I'm not gonna turn around and demand and inquisition from my father. Or suddenly not trust him.

I'd think the guy was off his rocker, or misinformed.



Yeah, not hating Tapewolf here. But I'm with Mab and spooks. He deserves a few swift kicks in the balls. 

[Tapewolf]

The other guy who killed a man. So ...is his son held responsible? Did his son do something wrong?

All of it is referring back to this one:
http://www.project-future.org/strip.php?strip=58
...where Niall sends Dorcan off to kill the mayor, knowing full well that he's going to do it and that Jakob won't like it at all.

To be counter-unfair, it doesn't help that my main impression of Jakob is not really a good one.  I kind of find him to be a bit of an unlikable douche who gets away with everything.

I was actually rather surprised by that description.  I'll grant that he comes across as rather cold and distant in most Project Future so far but he's not always like that by a long stretch (the scene where he's comforting Dorcan springs to mind).

Then again, so far you've probably only seen him:

* In Project Future, where frankly, he acts pretty weird for the first parts
* Being waylaid by Simeon and using a particularly harsh method of turning him around.
* During his Johan Cross phase (Strange Bedfellows) where he was pretty damn evil
* Under a huge amount of stress (PF p107)

...when Dark Angel gets back on track, it might help change that opinion.  I guess we'll see.

...

Looking at the script, I begin to see how you would get that impression.  Strictly, Jakob does do a number of dickish things, and he does have a distinct character quirk about intimidating people, but - excluding the Johan Cross sequence when he was insane - it's pretty rare for him to be genuinely nasty to someone for no reason whatsoever.

Joshua, for instance, was sent to spy on him.  Twice.  Simeon was trying to murder him*.  Later, he was trying to protect Simeon from Daryil.  With Dorcan he's either genuinely concerned, or ribbing him.  I'll grant that pushing Dorcan into the dryer was kind of evil, but if you look at strip 108 carefully, you may notice that Ashley is surprised at Jakob's behaviour, i.e. what he's doing is not normal.

With very few exceptions, Jakob is dickish to people who he believes have wronged him.  Wildy seems to do this to people for sport, which is almost the opposite of Jakob's behaviour.

However, at the end of the day, the most fun parts of Jakob to write have been when he's doing something questionable, so yeah, we might be seeing a bias towards that in the writing.

Honestly?  The single biggest influence on Jakob's character has been Tom Baker as Dr. Who.  Anyone writing stories involving Jakob should take that as a starting point


(*) EDIT:
And to his credit, Jakob doesn't do the typical 'Cubi thing, and lop Simeon's head off with a tentacle.
He does use a distinctly 'tough love' approach to try and turn Simeon around, but that's because he thought Simeon knew he was 'Cubi and was deliberately targeting members of their already precariously-balanced race.

[Keleth]

Don't worry.

I found that version of the Doctor was a bit of a drunken douche too.

[SquirrelWizard]

okay jumping in on this is probably an extremely terrible lapse of common sense on my part. But hey, common sense is so common so I can get it anywhere should I lose it.

I think the problem here is less that of Niall having to drop his mind shield, but that Jakob is demanding it. This speaks of severe trust issues between father and son. I wouldn't be surprised if Niall outright refused or left.

One of the things I've found in various works of fanfiction/related fiction is, that many times a writer gets bound up in the mechanics of the races to the point where they will sometimes overlook the "human" aspect (if you will forgive the use of the term.) Basically, if a person has truely earned their place of power; whether they be cubi, being, demon, human, or guinea pig they will have learned how to handle the various intricacies of the office they hold. They will know that some things require a softer touch than others.

[VAE]

i dunno... i mean... my family would have reacted just like Jakob.... i remember arguing with my mother that in fact i was NOT beaten up in a fight with 4 folks which was not only absurdly stupid, but an unfounded rumor ....

[Tapewolf]

I think the problem here is less that of Niall having to drop his mind shield, but that Jakob is demanding it. This speaks of severe trust issues between father and son. I wouldn't be surprised if Niall outright refused or left.

Again, Niall is sort of on probation after sending Dorcan off to kill the mayor.  If that hadn't happened (and quite recently), Jakob wouldn't be quite so accepting of the fact that Niall may have done it.

There's also the fact (which you'd have to have read CJP to pick up on, admittedly) that Niall was brought up during the Johan Cross era and Jakob has from time to time been a bit paranoid about his son picking up bad habits from when he (Jakob) went nuts.  As the comic hints, impersonating Cross and then murdering someone would be a horrific breach of trust and that's what Jakob fears most, really.

And yes, if it was just Wils babbling they would probably dismiss it out of hand.  But Wils claiming he's the killer + the mayor incident + Niall acting strangely before and after the killing is a lot more suspicious.

[Turnsky]

well i know somebody who approves.

[joshofspam]

Whoever sent that had to have known about the android bodies. So it isn't so suprising he would suspect his son under the strange happenings during the news broadcast.

The biggest problem people would have about people reading other peoples mind is how people would judge them on even the smallest evil thought. We all have that little voice that tells us to do something and we tell it to take a hike. Reading a mind would have to be a practice of being impartial.

[Gabi]

But just because they are a necessity and exist and I appreciate the value they add to storytelling...it doesn't mean I can't wish them to get kicked in the balls from time to time.

True. No offense to Tapewolf, of course.

[Tapewolf]

True. No offense to Tapewolf, of course.

I still say it's selection bias.  We only usually get to see the interesting or amusing parts of the story, not when he's playing video games with Dorcan or Niall or doing other nice, but boring things.  The chief exception being strip 118, and I guess the banter with Dorcan in that could be taken the wrong way...

FWIW, I am taking notes from this discussion and I will be feeding it back into the dialogue since Jakob doesn't seem to be coming across quite the way I had expected.

[Bengahl's Badge o' Bastardry]

Jakob shall wear it with pride.

[Lore]

I have a hard time believing Niall killed/saved him. Firstly, why would he? Second, why in the world would he continue to wear clothes exactly like what he wore to the murder? Third, he'd have to be stupid to try to impersonate Johan Cross. Not to mention it seems like poor coincidence that Wils is accusing Niall. Niall and the Cross impersonator don't look all the similar, aside from the clothing. I find it more likely that Niall has been framed.

Also, why does Niall have his headwings out? Assuming he did kill Wils and mail his soul to Jakob, he's either forgotten, which would make him an idiot, or is goading Wils in some manner. I find it more likely that he had no idea Wils was even there.

[Turnsky]

i can see it now, after much thought.
Niall lowers mind shield.
Jakob reads mind.


Jakob gets rickrolled for his troubles...

never gonna give you up~
never gonna let you down~

[Tapewolf]

Also, for those who haven't seen the rant, just a reminder that Ren is sick so progress on the line-art has been slow.  And yes, I have been trying to get him to rest up instead...

Jakob gets rickrolled for his troubles...

And on that note, here's an interesting mod for Doom 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aJjMOy-Ops

[Raskahn]

Also, for those who haven't seen the rant, just a reminder that Ren is sick so progress on the line-art has been slow.  And yes, I have been trying to get him to rest up instead...

Here's hoping Ren feels better soon.

[joshofspam]

Well I hope Ren gets better.

The sleep will do him good and so will chicken soup. I was always partial to Chicken and dumplings myself.

[Tapewolf]

Okay, here's the score.

I have the whole line-art for the next page of PF, but it's not yet coloured.
Dark Angel has been completed except for one missing background character that I don't have yet.

The system disk on my main machine seems to be trying to eat itself again - I would say that it's either a PSU fault, a motherboard fault or two identical Maxtor units are failing in exactly the same way at exactly the same time.
Either way, this does not make colouring the comic easy, so expect the current delayed strip to be delayed even more (like, until I get some kind of SSD for the boot/main system disk).  

Anyway, I do have a 96% complete Dark Angel, fully captioned and everything.  What do people think?  Should I upload it now and insert the extra character when he's ready, or wait?

[VAE]

I am for now, since if your PC dies , at least it will be stored somewhere and you won't lose all of your work

[Tapewolf]

I am for now, since if your PC dies , at least it will be stored somewhere and you won't lose all of your work

Okay, I managed to bring the system up, but I don't trust it.  Dark Angel is up, complete with missing character.  Enjoy it.

FWIW, it's only the OS disk that is acting funny.  The artwork is on the data disk, which is behaving itself.  Also I'm paranoid about losing things like that, so most of it is backed up.  If it [data disk] died today I'd lose the last 14 days worth of stuff, but no more than that.