03/19/10 [Clan Leaders #10] Oh, there she is...

[Amber Williams]

In regard to the "Accuracy" of Minks paper, please keep in mind that even though Mink is there to provide a bit of comical insight, the arc is in the demonology 101 section due to it being more a referential arc than anything. So it will be better to think of the actual clan leader articles as demo 101 pages written from a today perspective and the Mink comical antics as more a silly side angle.

Much in the same way that you have Matilda talking about clothing and Fa'Lina talking about thought-reading....the segments with Mink is more just me being silly in presentation.

In other words, you can likely figure out who the two clan members are since Clan leaders don't count towards the total.

[AmigaDragon]

Hmm, the smallest will be Fa'lina's clan with membership of 1
Besides how would mink know Dan is Destainia's son (or that she had any kids at all...)
Makes me wonder how the war started though.

I think Amber said that there were two Cyra members that we know of.  I was wondering if we would get a 2 or a 3 in the official entry.

When was this report written, near the time of May's death (probably around 300 years ago), or in the present? This will affect what the numbers mean. 300 years ago means either Cyra is counted or there's another clan member under her besides Destania. Present time could have various results, one of which is not knowing yet about Dan as Cyra clan.

EDIT: Ok, sniped by Amber. So the articles are considered present time. And leaders aren't counted.

[RandomMetaphysics]

Woo! Cyra
Hmmm, her ascension triggered the war? Now that's a subject I wouldn't mind learning a bit about.

In regard to the "Accuracy" of Minks paper, please keep in mind that even though Mink is there to provide a bit of comical insight, the arc is in the demonology 101 section due to it being more a referential arc than anything. So it will be better to think of the actual clan leader articles as demo 101 pages written from a today perspective and the Mink comical antics as more a silly side angle.

Much in the same way that you have Matilda talking about clothing and Fa'Lina talking about thought-reading....the segments with Mink is more just me being silly in presentation.

In other words, you can likely figure out who the two clan members are since Clan leaders don't count towards the total.

Wait, so does that mean we can assume that the Cubi society does not know of Dan being of Cyra's Clan? Let alone his existence? If this is the case, won't news about a new member of Clan Cyra be kinda of... I don't know... big news?

[Amber Williams]

Wait, so does that mean we can assume that the Cubi society does not know of Dan being of Cyra's Clan? Let alone his existence? If this is the case, won't news about a new member of Clan Cyra be kinda of... I don't know... big news?

I would think the time between Dan waking up in SAIA and Abel donking him in the head with a bat was about all the time it would take for news of Dan being from Clan Cyra to reach from one end of the Academy to another.


Pardon me to the forum if I seem a bit more aggressive than normal. My ovaries have decided to try to make an escape chest-burster style it feels and I am rather uncomfortable and unhappy due to the resulting pain.

But yes. There are two clan members in Cyra. Dan and Destania. DAN. AND. DESTANIA.  Leaders do not count towards a clan.  Therefore there are two members.  DAN. DESTANIA.  This mini-arc is not set in any particular timeline and is based on Out of Timeline events. So the ages and times are based on the right here and right now so that even if three months from now a new reader comes across them, they will still be accurate and not have shifted.

Just to reiterate. Dan and Destania. The two members of Cyra clan.  We coo? We coo.

[Psychedelic Mushroom]

HOLY CRAP I JUST REMEMBERED!!!! CUBI LEADERS IS WRITTEN BY MINK--- So then all the people who theorized him to die in Abel's Story are hopefully wrong!!  Wow I am soooo slow to be quick. 

[VAE]

Wait, so does that mean we can assume that the Cubi society does not know of Dan being of Cyra's Clan? Let alone his existence? If this is the case, won't news about a new member of Clan Cyra be kinda of... I don't know... big news?

I would think the time between Dan waking up in SAIA and Abel donking him in the head with a bat was about all the time it would take for news of Dan being from Clan Cyra to reach from one end of the Academy to another.


Pardon me to the forum if I seem a bit more aggressive than normal. My ovaries have decided to try to make an escape chest-burster style it feels and I am rather uncomfortable and unhappy due to the resulting pain.

But yes. There are two clan members in Cyra. Dan and Destania. DAN. AND. DESTANIA.  Leaders do not count towards a clan.  Therefore there are two members.  DAN. DESTANIA.  This mini-arc is not set in any particular timeline and is based on Out of Timeline events. So the ages and times are based on the right here and right now so that even if three months from now a new reader comes across them, they will still be accurate and not have shifted.

Just to reiterate. Dan and Destania. The two members of Cyra clan.  We coo? We coo.

So.. mink's report is accurate on everything except where it states it is ambiguous?

I don't know. It does not seem aggressive to me (but then, i have somewhat altered standards for verbal aggression..)
Right now i am imagining John Cleese reading this aloud with the emphasis on "Dan" and "two" and "Destainia" in a manner similar to this  sketch

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

Why do I have a feeling that we can now expect "subtle" hints from Cyra to Dan about great-grandchildren....... 

[SpottedKitty]

Why do I have a feeling that we can now expect "subtle" hints from Cyra to Dan about great-grandchildren....... 

What, you mean "subtle" like this...?   

[Lego3400]

The Clan of Winter's Touch? Either that refers to her blue and white color scheme or they have an affinity for ice magic.

[Ghostwish]

Regardless of the theory-spawning info provided on this particular clan, Cyra still looks amazingly gorgeous.

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

Why do I have a feeling that we can now expect "subtle" hints from Cyra to Dan about great-grandchildren....... 

What, you mean "subtle" like this...?   

I guess my humor goes over some people's head here, we all know Cyra is anything but "subtle"....... 

[Anri]

http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,1676.msg67227.html#msg67227

Here, this shows Destainia is 7026 y/o, and it is a rather undisputable source.
Now the Mink's paper says cyra is 7000 years old.
Either there is something extremely fishy going on , or Mink's paper is worse than some wikipedia articles

The ages were rounded down to the nearest thousand according to the * on Kish'ta's entry so she could have had Dee/the other nuked kids "fairly young".

Hum. So it's entirely possible that Dee is Cyra's direct daughter pre-ascension.

[VAE]

Why do I have a feeling that we can now expect "subtle" hints from Cyra to Dan about great-grandchildren....... 

What, you mean "subtle" like this...?   

maybe more like this

And supposedly there IS male Tri-wings, just less of them if I recall correctly

Hmm, I think i know why - look at the incubi we know so far - Dan,Aniz and Abel, and i think it shows which gender is keeping the cubi life expectancy down
And the only (non-canon) tri wing which is Daryil is not doing much to improve this image ....

Regardless of the theory-spawning info provided on this particular clan, Cyra still looks amazingly gorgeous.

Hmm, i guess the info makes it better - the most recently ascended canon cubi ! My suspicions are she found a reliable method that did not involve killing another tri-wing , which got the dragons scared (might have involved one of them, too  )
And yup, she does look nice, right after Fa'lina.

[Jasonrevall]

Wait, so does that mean we can assume that the Cubi society does not know of Dan being of Cyra's Clan? Let alone his existence? If this is the case, won't news about a new member of Clan Cyra be kinda of... I don't know... big news?

I would think the time between Dan waking up in SAIA and Abel donking him in the head with a bat was about all the time it would take for news of Dan being from Clan Cyra to reach from one end of the Academy to another.


Pardon me to the forum if I seem a bit more aggressive than normal. My ovaries have decided to try to make an escape chest-burster style it feels and I am rather uncomfortable and unhappy due to the resulting pain.

But yes. There are two clan members in Cyra. Dan and Destania. DAN. AND. DESTANIA.  Leaders do not count towards a clan.  Therefore there are two members.  DAN. DESTANIA.  This mini-arc is not set in any particular timeline and is based on Out of Timeline events. So the ages and times are based on the right here and right now so that even if three months from now a new reader comes across them, they will still be accurate and not have shifted.

Just to reiterate. Dan and Destania. The two members of Cyra clan.  We coo? We coo.

I agree with danman, that doesn't seem that aggressive. But if it's more aggressive than you usually are, then by your standards, I go berserker fury on people when they touch my rootbeer.

Also this is useful information, I shall catalog it for future reference. And yes I got it. Dan and Destania. We coo.

[Tapewolf]

Hmm, i guess the info makes it better - the most recently ascended canon cubi ! My suspicions are she found a reliable method that did not involve killing another tri-wing , which got the dragons scared (might have involved one of them, too  )
And yup, she does look nice, right after Fa'lina.

I don't know how ascension works, but it's strongly implied that you need lots of energy.  Souls are the most convenient way, but not the only way - AFAIK Seme ascended in a non-violent manner.

You could probably do it with the souls of many Beings, maybe Demons etc.  However, if you're in a position to eat another Tri-wing, like Zezzuva did, that's probably the only one you'd need.
It looks to me a lot like Cyra ate a Dragon, which understandably would not sit very well with them.

[VAE]

  I don't know how ascension works, but it's strongly implied that you need lots of energy.  Souls are the most convenient way, but not the only way - AFAIK Seme ascended in a non-violent manner.

You could probably do it with the souls of many Beings, maybe Demons etc.  However, if you're in a position to eat another Tri-wing, like Zezzuva did, that's probably the only one you'd need.
It looks to me a lot like Cyra ate a Dragon, which understandably would not sit very well with them.

Hmm, the thing is, it could have been political as well - since tri-wings are so awesomely powerful, i think it did not require much calculation for the dragons to see what an increased ascension rate would do ...

But, i suppose seeing that the average dragon intellect is not great (Pyroduck is normal, the one who Dan owed money to was like tungsten) i think that the simpler explanation could well cut it .

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

It looks to me a lot like Cyra ate a Dragon, which understandably would not sit very well with them.

I mentioned something along these lines earlier in the post, too (1st page, 4th post), so I totally agree with Tape here.  




Edit: Double checked the post number......

[jeffh4]

It looks to me a lot like Cyra ate a Dragon, which understandably would not sit very well with them.

Abandoning my "gave to charity" theory for a moment, why would Cyra settle for eating just one Dragon soul?  Why not a hundred, or a thousand?  The bigger the number, the more pissed the Dragon response  (which was one step down from Ragnarok).

Om, nom, nom! ***

***  Roughly translates to "Your soul is yummy and goes well with ketchup and a nice chianti"

[Psaakyrn]

The Clan of Winter's Touch? Either that refers to her blue and white color scheme or they have an affinity for ice magic.

Or it may be a sly reference to their ability to block scrying: whatever they touch turns cold.

It looks to me a lot like Cyra ate a Dragon, which understandably would not sit very well with them.

I think that unlikely for one main reason: how would a cubi non-ascension have the power to overwhelm a dragon with sufficient power for said ascension?

[EDIT]One possibility: Cyra got the power she needed as a gift for hiding the trail of a powerful being, who incidently has some questionable relationships with dragons.

Offthought: Given the approx 2000 year difference between Fa'lina's age and the age of the Cyra clan, Fa'lina's clan may very well be the 2nd last cubi ascension...[/EDIT]

[Tapewolf]

I think that unlikely for one main reason: how would a cubi non-ascension have the power to overwhelm a dragon with sufficient power for said ascension?

A good point.  However, Zezzuva somehow overwhelmed her tri-winged sister, and Abel came very close to taking Pyroduck's head off - it might be that they are more vulnerable in Being mode.  I wouldn't say it rules it out, but it's not going to be a trivial exercise.

[Shachza]

Cyra's age is "roughly" 7000.
Saia was founded "roughly" 7000 years ago.
Therefor the Dragon-Cubi War started "roughly" 7000 years ago.


Has anyone else noted that Cyra ascended near instantaneously after being born?  Now I understand why the dragons were so set against the 'cubi.  Whatever she did would allow for every 'cubi to ascend if the info got around, not just the oldest, smartest, and most innately powerful ones.  An army of ascended 'cubi should worry even the fae. 

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

I think that unlikely for one main reason: how would a cubi non-ascension have the power to overwhelm a dragon with sufficient power for said ascension?

If the dragon was not expecting an attack and you got the drop on them with perhaps a powerful magic attack or as Tape mentioned they seem to vulnerable when they are being sized, so it's not entirely impossible.

In other types of fiction haven't there been people of smaller size that have slayed or defeated dragons, so why not here....  

[Scrap Fish]

Cyra's age is "roughly" 7000.
Saia was founded "roughly" 7000 years ago.
Therefor the Dragon-Cubi War started "roughly" 7000 years ago.
Has anyone else noted that Cyra ascended near instantaneously after being born?

"Ages rounded to the nearest thousand." She could have an actual age of 7499 and it'd still round to 7000. Also, roughly, with three zeros... It'd be easy to slip a few or several decades in on either side.

 Now I understand why the dragons were so set against the 'cubi.  Whatever she did would allow for every 'cubi to ascend if the info got around, not just the oldest, smartest, and most innately powerful ones.  An army of ascended 'cubi should worry even the fae.  D:

While I agree that this would make dragons  (Among everyone else.) pretty unhappy, I will point to a qoute directly from Cyra's page.

"Despite several failed attempts, no other Cubi has been able to attain tri-wing status."

The possibility alone may have started the war, but an army of ascended Cubi still looks rather improbable, if not impossible.
On another note, I hope "no other Cubi" means "no other Cubi since Cyra," or else I'm confused with how the other leaders can be tri-wings.

[Drayco84]

The Clan of Winter's Touch? Either that refers to her blue and white color scheme or they have an affinity for ice magic.

Either that, or it's the fact that she's an ice-cold bi-*Gets shot.*

[Tapewolf]

Has anyone else noted that Cyra ascended near instantaneously after being born?  Now I understand why the dragons were so set against the 'cubi.  Whatever she did would allow for every 'cubi to ascend if the info got around, not just the oldest, smartest, and most innately powerful ones.  An army of ascended 'cubi should worry even the fae. 

7000 probably refers to Cyra's ascension and not her birth.  However, if she did find a shortcut that anyone could do relatively easily, that could certainly alarm the Dragons.

On another note, I hope "no other Cubi" means "no other Cubi since Cyra," or else I'm confused with how the other leaders can be tri-wings.

I think it's safe to assume so.

[Shachza]

Cyra's age is "roughly" 7000.
Saia was founded "roughly" 7000 years ago.
Therefor the Dragon-Cubi War started "roughly" 7000 years ago.
Has anyone else noted that Cyra ascended near instantaneously after being born?

"Ages rounded to the nearest thousand." She could have an actual age of 7499 and it'd still round to 7000. Also, roughly, with three zeros... It'd be easy to slip a few or several decades in on either side.

We're talking a 'cubi who ascended between 24 and 499 years after being born, when the next closest 'cubi (that we can date) is Fa'lina who I'm betting was closer to that 2300-year mark of Saia being founded than away from it.  Even if we don't know the ascension ages of the other tri-wings, the next youngest at that time (that we know of) would be Dimanika at 5000.  Under 500 years is practically a baby by tri-wing standards.

Now I understand why the dragons were so set against the 'cubi.  Whatever she did would allow for every 'cubi to ascend if the info got around, not just the oldest, smartest, and most innately powerful ones.  An army of ascended 'cubi should worry even the fae.  D:

While I agree that this would make dragons  (Among everyone else.) pretty unhappy, I will point to a qoute directly from Cyra's page.

"Despite several failed attempts, no other Cubi has been able to attain tri-wing status."

The possibility alone may have started the war, but an army of ascended Cubi still looks rather improbable, if not impossible.
On another note, I hope "no other Cubi" means "no other Cubi since Cyra," or else I'm confused with how the other leaders can be tri-wings.

"Despite several failed attempts, no other 'cubi has yet been able to attain tri-wing status."

I believe it does mean "no 'cubi since Cyra."  Leaving "yet" out of it changes the meaning drastically, as that one word implies that Cyra knows something that other 'cubi don't, and I'd bet that it's her super-secret method for instant ascension.

Has anyone else noted that Cyra ascended near instantaneously after being born?  Now I understand why the dragons were so set against the 'cubi.  Whatever she did would allow for every 'cubi to ascend if the info got around, not just the oldest, smartest, and most innately powerful ones.  An army of ascended 'cubi should worry even the fae. 

7000 probably refers to Cyra's ascension and not her birth.  However, if she did find a shortcut that anyone could do relatively easily, that could certainly alarm the Dragons.

That sounds like Dimanika logic.  Dating someone's age based on the moment they hit maturity just leads to all sorts of confusion.

[Anri]

7000 probably refers to Cyra's ascension and not her birth.  However, if she did find a shortcut that anyone could do relatively easily, that could certainly alarm the Dragons.

Here's the easy way to sort this out... how long ago was the Dragon/'cubi war and how long did it last! Given Aniz' age at the time of the war and time passed since we discovered Aniz age, it can't have been much more than several hundred years ago that it ended. So over 7000 is likely Cyra's real age and her ascent came ... err, wait a tic, things is confusing here.

Please hold, editing will come once some brain parsing occurs.


le edit: ok, so Saia started about 7000ish years ago in response to the war and ... tragic events. Wow, it went on a while. Though 'around 7000 years' leaves some wiggleroom so Cyra was a few hundred years old. Roughly.



I better stop before head asplode.

[Psychedelic Mushroom]

What, you mean "subtle" like this...?   

This is off topic from Cyra, But I think I may have just figured out Fa'lina's affinity. Perhaps an affinity for Maternal Love? Eh? She goes beserkers over children and babies.. So it's a possibility eh? Anyways.

Back to the topic, I find it interesting that Cyra's clan is born with Green eyes. You think with all that blue in the hair and the feathers, that the eyes would match too.... Bah, blame the OCD with color cordination. 

[Nino]

Oh yeah, how weird, you can see the clan symbol on her chest here but not in this update.

Though looking back at it, you can't see any of the symbols in the cubi clan leaders arc (even Nact'larn, who is naked, and Jin, who it should be right over her chest), so obviously they can hide it. Also you never see Fa'lina's ever ever ever in the comic but she exposes her chest all the time.

[AndersW]

From Dan's Cast Page

Dan's new wing tentacles have draconic heads. While unknown to Dan, this is actually a clan trait and if Dan had paid any attention, he would discover that he is from a rather high and powerful clan.

Add that fact to your theories.