Skinny Cubi

[PetFriendAmy]

So this one time I was sitting there thinking about DMFA stuff, and I got to thinking: Cubi don't eat food. They feed off of emotions.

So then I started to wonder: if they don't eat food, how do they maintain that perfect body weight? Does it depend on how many emotions they feed off of? Will Cubi get fat if they feed off too many emotions? Will they lose weight if they don't feed on enough? Is there some kind of magical property that keeps them at perfect body weight at all times?

Or am I just thinking on this too much?

[Turnsky]

Is there some kind of magical property that keeps them at perfect body weight at all times?

Cubi are naturally good looking as per their nature.. that said it'd prolly be more along the lines of "Amber doesn't wish to shift character models much if at all"

Or am I just thinking on this too much?

Just accept that it is what it is, you'll sleep better that way. 

[Tapewolf]

So then I started to wonder: if they don't eat food, how do they maintain that perfect body weight? Does it depend on how many emotions they feed off of? Will Cubi get fat if they feed off too many emotions? Will they lose weight if they don't feed on enough? Is there some kind of magical property that keeps them at perfect body weight at all times?

Maybe you're overthinking it but you're not alone.

If I were designing the 'Cubi race like a piece of technology, I'd try to add a limiter so that it self-stabilised and they didn't become overweight (unless they wished to via shapeshifting).  They would become underweight if they starved, but I think it's sensible to assume that whatever mechanism allows them to feed on emotions is able to synthesize the components needed for their metabolism to run (and to repair their bodies).

What I really want to know about is if they eat and feed on emotions, like Abel does, and like Aniz presumably did while he was being Cid.  That might put them overweight, though again, if I were designing them I'd try to make the emotion absorption mechanism silently reject the excess emotions if they didn't need them.

[VAE]

Hmm, i have my own theory little similar to tapewolfs'
You see, all in all, it seems magic has little problems converting matter to energy. (Abel explaining how only the structure is the difficult part - creating pure substances is easy)
This would mean , since such conversions (i am going to assume that instead of pure conversion they just rip stuff (air or whatever) to nucleons and reconstitute whatever material instantly as it requires somewhat less energy to do on a large scale...)
As annihilation of matter is enormously energetically efficient i think that overfed cubi can just gain a few grams of mass and to the counter it would take a looong time to get one to starve entirely.However, perhaps the conversion is not so efficient (i mean a lot of spare heat given out) so that it will sustain a cubi, but not so much for it to use its abilities and maybe even mind properly, which would be the reason why they still prefer to feed regularly.

EDIT: Besides if they can shapeshift that means they can add and substract matter at will, if they have enough energy to carry it through, which makes the idea of over/underweight meaningless.
Might be funny to imagine an older cubi, in perfect concentration, shapeshifting the atherosclerotic plaques out of his arteries

[AmigaDragon]

Fat doesn't have to be the only place for excess food/emotional-energy to go. It could be dissipated as heat, put into magical reserves, proprtionally distributed mass (hair, skin, muscle, bone, etc), or just not absorbed in the first place.

[Trazz]

Don't you pay attention? If a 'Cubi absorbs too much emotion, they get headaches! http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_488.php

[Tapewolf]

Don't you pay attention? If a 'Cubi absorbs too much emotion, they get headaches! http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_488.php

True, but they might get headaches and plump 

[VAE]

Don't you pay attention? If a 'Cubi absorbs too much emotion, they get headaches! http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_488.php

True, but they might get headaches and plump 

Hmm, as is said, converting matter to energy is much more efficient than just storing energy via C-H chemical bonds in lipids.
So beyond fat for thermal isolation, a cubi could gain small amounts of mass by direct conversion from energy...
Also they might use proper food to grow - with this kind of ability transmutation of matter might be possible... although difficult (but with enough time masterable) which would explain the size of Cyra for example.

But thinking of it .... plump kind of loses meaning for someone who can shapeshift into anything it chooses with little effort (and semi-perm it seems -  look at Aniz)

[PetFriendAmy]

I was admittedly mostly wondering how they don't get underweight if they never eat food. Which is when I started figuring that feeding on emotions probably takes care of that somehow.

Then again though, these are the same Cubi who can modify their body mass so maybe they're just in the habit of always shapeshifting to whatever weight they look good in. And then it occurs to me that maybe that's why some of them (e.g. Abel) prefer to regularly eat food anyway?

[Liatai]

Hmm, as is said, converting matter to energy is much more efficient than just storing energy via C-H chemical bonds in lipids.

Actually, the C-H bonds are fairly low in energy. As are the C-C bonds, really. The energy that comes from fatty acid catabolism comes from the fact that it can be broken down into several acetyl-CoA units, which can go through the citric acid cycle to generate NADH and FADH₂, which in turn can be used in the electron transport chain to generate a proton motive force, which can be used to drive the action of ATP synthase, which phosphorylates ADP to create ATP, which can be dephosphorylated to drive any number of biological pathways. So, basically, the energy is "stored" in each 2-carbon unit of the fatty acid chain, since that's what's converted to acetyl-CoA.

... What? I have an exam on the citric acid cycle and lipid metabolism next week.

But anyway! Back on topic. I agree; I think 'cubi weight is mostly a matter of aesthetics and personal preference. They seem like they can pretty much choose their own weight, via shapeshifting and by choosing how much food (emotional energy or otherwise) they ingest.

... Great. I caught myself wondering how emotional energy could be converted to biologically-available energy. Does it create some kind of electrochemical (electromagical?) gradient in magical mitochondria? Are there enzymes for phosphorylating ADP using emotional energy? Does it act like a hormone to drive ATP synthesis via other pathways? But even if it did, it would need...

I should really stop thinking while I'm ahead...

[Tapewolf]

... Great. I caught myself wondering how emotional energy could be converted to biologically-available energy.

From what I've heard, it isn't.  Emotional energy is used as a catalyst, the real energy source is elsewhere - this is how they're able to feed on their own emotions, or several 'Cubi are able to mutually feed on each other's emotions.

[VAE]

Hmm, as is said, converting matter to energy is much more efficient than just storing energy via C-H chemical bonds in lipids.

Actually, the C-H bonds are fairly low in energy. As are the C-C bonds, really. The energy that comes from fatty acid catabolism comes from the fact that it can be broken down into several acetyl-CoA units, which can go through the citric acid cycle to generate NADH and FADH₂, which in turn can be used in the electron transport chain to generate a proton motive force, which can be used to drive the action of ATP synthase, which phosphorylates ADP to create ATP, which can be dephosphorylated to drive any number of biological pathways. So, basically, the energy is "stored" in each 2-carbon unit of the fatty acid chain, since that's what's converted to acetyl-CoA.

... What? I have an exam on the citric acid cycle and lipid metabolism next week.

But anyway! Back on topic. I agree; I think 'cubi weight is mostly a matter of aesthetics and personal preference. They seem like they can pretty much choose their own weight, via shapeshifting and by choosing how much food (emotional energy or otherwise) they ingest.

... Great. I caught myself wondering how emotional energy could be converted to biologically-available energy. Does it create some kind of electrochemical (electromagical?) gradient in magical mitochondria? Are there enzymes for phosphorylating ADP using emotional energy? Does it act like a hormone to drive ATP synthesis via other pathways? But even if it did, it would need...

I should really stop thinking while I'm ahead...

Nice!
I have little knowing of biology, just some chemistry and lot of physics ,so i thought it is similar to when you burn the stuff, where C-H gives you more energy per unit mass... (I naively thought ATP is just used for short-term storage)
I guess, since it is pure energy, there must be something in cubi cells which acts like an antenna - is able to transfer the emotional energy into perhaps thermal (vibrations) That would explain the headaches - if a cubi takes in more than can be stored , his/her brain overheats

[Liatai]

That isn't such a naive thought, danman! ATP is such a high-energy molecule that it's very thermodynamically favorable for the third phosphate group to be snapped off. That, coupled with the fact that so many pathways use ATP as an energy source, means that ATP doesn't stick around for long. So, in that sense, it is a short-term energy source. It's energy in an easy-to-use package. Fatty acids, carbohydrates, and sometimes amino acids can store energy for later use in making that easy-to-use package.

It's kind of like a cookie, in a way; you can have the flour, sugar, eggs, etc. laying around the house ready to bake with, but until you do things to them, they don't become the easy-to-consume, readily-available cookie. The potential is there; it's just not in the right form to be used.


Tapewolf: That makes sense, although now you've got me wondering what the energy source is.   You can only break down glucose and acetyl-CoA so many times before you end up with an excess of carbon dioxide and a sore lack of anything to take energy from... Maybe 'cubi have some way of recycling the CO₂ into carbohydrates/lipids/proteins/what have you that requires emotional energy as a sort of cofactor? Some kind of photosynthesis-like system that uses emotional energy instead of light? What would you call that, anyway? Emotosynthesis? 

Or, maybe... does it say anywhere that 'cubi need to breathe? Maybe they're the largest nitrogen fixers known to man.   Or maybe I just need to accept that it's probably magic and stop thinking about it.

[Tapewolf]

Or, maybe... does it say anywhere that 'cubi need to breathe?

This we do know a little about.  Like sleeping, eating and other biological leftovers from their Being stage, they gradually lose the need.  Dan needs to.  Abel can IIRC hold his breath for hours.  Destania probably doesn't need to breathe at all except to speak, and it's pretty much a dead cert that none of the Tri-wings need to.

Maybe they're the largest nitrogen fixers known to man.  Or maybe I just need to accept that it's probably magic and stop thinking about it.

Well, there is a limit to how far you can push it.  At the end of the day their metabolism is magic-based, and in the DMFA universe it seems to be easy to create raw materials via magical processes.

[Liatai]

Well, there is a limit to how far you can push it.  At the end of the day their metabolism is magic-based, and in the DMFA universe it seems to be easy to create raw materials via magical processes.

Ah! Somehow, I'd forgotten that little fact. Now I remember Abel's economics lecture. That makes this whole business much easier to think about. Thanks!

[Shachza]

Fat doesn't have to be the only place for excess food/emotional-energy to go. It could be dissipated as heat, put into magical reserves, proprtionally distributed mass (hair, skin, muscle, bone, etc), or just not absorbed in the first place.

Doctor:  You have a temperature of 176 degrees!
Dan:  Oh yeah, that.  I had some granola with my morning dose of Pip huggles, and I'm trying to keep my weight down.

[VAE]

Well, there is a limit to how far you can push it.  At the end of the day their metabolism is magic-based, and in the DMFA universe it seems to be easy to create raw materials via magical processes.

Well, exactly - i believe they can transmute substances by messing with nucleons.
Compared to that, recycling metabolites (chemical bonds are much less energetic) is a doddle - that is why they are able to do it passively, and since there is not much more structure, it should not be more difficult....
So i would expect magical mitochondries that convert CO2 and H2O into glucose and uric acid and such into proteins. If they are oversupplied you get the equivalent of a sun sickness in a person (or a plant for that matter) which explains the headache.

As for the remaining part.. it might not be that the emotion is a catalyst, but that when released it binds energy from the enviroment of some form.. so the thing with eating your own emotions is like when a chimp puts a stick with some "coniferous plant juice" (i do not know the term in english) down an anthill and then picks up termites ....
In this case the stick is digested as well but is a minor part to what makes the thing energetic...

[Bjalf]

Doctor:  You have a temperature of 176 degrees!
Dan:  Oh yeah, that.  I had some granola with my morning dose of Pip huggles, and I'm trying to keep my weight down.

Fahrenheit? Celsius? Kelvin?

[VAE]

Doctor:  You have a temperature of 176 degrees!
Dan:  Oh yeah, that.  I had some granola with my morning dose of Pip huggles, and I'm trying to keep my weight down.

Fahrenheit? Celsius? Kelvin?

Rankine!

[Tapewolf]

Fahrenheit? Celsius? Kelvin?

Kelvin.  They are the Clan of Winter's Touch, no?

[VAE]

Fahrenheit? Celsius? Kelvin?

Kelvin.  They are the Clan of Winter's Touch, no?

176 rankine is colder - it is the fahrenheit equivalent to celsius=>kelvin

[Naldru]

Actually, this conversation got me thinking about Matilda.  Warm blooded animals are normally warmer than their environment.  Since Matilda was raised in a very hot area, this would make her body very, very hot.   I don't think that this would be the type of hot date that Dan is looking for.

If she was cold-blooded, one would expect her to be very lethargic in an environment so much colder than what she is used to.

Another possibility would be that she is warm-blooded, but able to change her body temperature at will.  (In the Dick Tracy comic strip, the inhabitants of the moon had this ability.)

[Suwako]

Actually, this conversation got me thinking about Matilda.  Warm blooded animals are normally warmer than their environment.  Since Matilda was raised in a very hot area, this would make her body very, very hot.   I don't think that this would be the type of hot date that Dan is looking for.

If she was cold-blooded, one would expect her to be very lethargic in an environment so much colder than what she is used to.

Another possibility would be that she is warm-blooded, but able to change her body temperature at will.  (In the Dick Tracy comic strip, the inhabitants of the moon had this ability.)

I think she is magical. She's kind, loving and can breath fire. What more could a guy wish for in a woman? 

[Tapewolf]

Actually, this conversation got me thinking about Matilda.  Warm blooded animals are normally warmer than their environment.  Since Matilda was raised in a very hot area, this would make her body very, very hot.   I don't think that this would be the type of hot date that Dan is looking for.

They teach element-resistance at SAIA, though.

[Infranscia]

Actually, this conversation got me thinking about Matilda.  Warm blooded animals are normally warmer than their environment.  Since Matilda was raised in a very hot area, this would make her body very, very hot.   I don't think that this would be the type of hot date that Dan is looking for.

If she was cold-blooded, one would expect her to be very lethargic in an environment so much colder than what she is used to.

According to her cast page, it does state that she dislikes rain and doesn't travel much in the winter.

They teach element-resistance at SAIA, though.

Yeah, but Dan hasn't taken that class, yet.


One thing I thought I'd bring up about the headaches: Fa'Lina says that absorbing a lot of emotion-energy can cause a lot of pain IF they aren't trained to handle it. (Link)  Admittedly, I've been skimming over the chemistry bits here, but it seems that Cubi can condition there bodies to better deal with the reaction, or to absorb the energy more efficiently, whether or not such science is involved.  Human bodies can adapt and be trained for a lot of such things, so I wouldn't be surprised.


Science and shapeshifting (never would've thought I'd hear those two words in the same sentence) aside, I guess since they primarily feed off of emotion-catalyzed-energy, then their bodies would probably use other resources as secondary supplies.  So to obtain energy, their bodies would probably go though stores in this order: emotion > carbs > fat > other.  If that were the case, assuming they did choose to still eat, it would be harder for them to maintain  weight naturally since it would take longer for the body to use it's other energy supplies before it has to use fat.  This would be especially so at SAIA and other emotion-rich places.  On a similar note, it would be harder to 'starve' a Cubi, especially since they can feed off their own emotions, to some extent.

...Okay, now I'm not only wondering not only about weight-loss, but body-building and whatnot.  Assuming they used their absorbed energy and converted it into body mass, could they readily use any emotion for any, nutrient or would they have to balance their diet as usual?  Hmm... Nah, maybe it wouldn't matter.  Though it would be interesting if, say, anger was the equivalent of protein.

[Drayco84]

Can't... Stop... Self... Must... NNNNGH! Comment... RrrrrrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!


For those of you who don't care for catgirls... Well, I'm just gonna get out of your way then...

TO SELF: Stay out of it, self. I'm warning you... YOU HAVE WRITING TO DO! GET BACK TO WORK!

[VAE]

Hmm, but this is not that fantasy of a comic - i mean the universe is  well defined and although modified ,some kind of physics applies!
It is soo much more interesting when one actually comes up with reliable mechanisms for events, because they give structure and so allow for interesting advanced speculation.... and fun ideas.
Knowledge is power!

[Mao]

Except.. this isn't knowledge.  It's speculation.

[Shachza]

Totally off topic.  What's with all the "fan" and "familiar" things in people's sigs?

[VAE]

But speculation similar to real world - either everything will go in accord to our theories, and then they are workable, or something does not and then we have to improve them,...
It is sort of like science , except we cannot conduct proper experiments LOL