08/10/08 [DMFA #930] - A lot in common.

[Pagan]

In any case, there is always the option of Shanna simply not caring.  I'm sure there are plenty of dragons not with the group that Destina wants to kill..  she's just a genocidal maniac that wants them all dead.

Ya know, I don't see why everyone thinks Destania is so bad for wanting the end of the dragon race. Aren't we supposed to sympathize with Cubi here? Why shouldn't we want the dragons gone? What have they done for the good of Furrae? And with them out of the picture, all the other races (beings included) would get a better piece of the pie.

This opinion might not be popular, but I fully support Destinia and Biggs.

[Jairus]

In any case, there is always the option of Shanna simply not caring.  I'm sure there are plenty of dragons not with the group that Destina wants to kill..  she's just a genocidal maniac that wants them all dead.

Ya know, I don't see why everyone thinks Destania is so bad for wanting the end of the dragon race. Aren't we supposed to sympathize with Cubi here? Why shouldn't we want the dragons gone? What have they done for the good of Furrae? And with them out of the picture, all the other races (beings included) would get a better piece of the pie.

This opinion might not be popular, but I fully support Destinia and Biggs.

The problem with that is that we really haven't met all that many dragons, and those that we have met are either nice and heroic (Shanna and Pyroduck) or at least honorable and apologetic for mistakes they made (like the one who accidentally wiped out the vampire). I mean, yes, you have a valid viewpoint, but personally I'd like to meet a few more dragons and get some perspective from someone whose husband hasn't been kidnapped by dragons. And yes, according to their species profile dragons tend to be jerks, but anyone would be that stuck-up if they were in the position of power and intelligence the dragons are in. Adding to that is that I have a slight aversion to the concept of species-wide genocide. She may have her reasons, but we haven't heard all of them yet. I'm going to wait a little longer before I decide whether or not to throw my weight behind Biggs and Destania.

[Tapewolf]

We don't even know whether it is genocide.  Personally, I doubt one 7000-year-old succubus could, in one night, kill all the multi-million-year-old members of a race that is described in the demonology as having no weaknesses and impenetrable hides.
To my mind, it's more likely - but still an incredible feat - that she intends to trap them in the hypothetical 'dragon kingdom' or otherwise banish them from Furrae.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Apologetic?

"Honey, it was a Pinto. I did you a favour."

Didn't seem very apologetic to me. Even if she was right... ;-]

[Faerie Alex]

I think he might have meant "Sorry for stepping on you." (I'm paraphrasing a bit.)

[Kuari]

In any case, there is always the option of Shanna simply not caring.  I'm sure there are plenty of dragons not with the group that Destina wants to kill..  she's just a genocidal maniac that wants them all dead.

Ya know, I don't see why everyone thinks Destania is so bad for wanting the end of the dragon race. Aren't we supposed to sympathize with Cubi here? Why shouldn't we want the dragons gone? What have they done for the good of Furrae? And with them out of the picture, all the other races (beings included) would get a better piece of the pie.

This opinion might not be popular, but I fully support Destinia and Biggs.

Because genocide is never good, unless its a race of Hitlers or something being the targets

[Jairus]

Because genocide is never good, unless its a race of Hitlers or something being the targets

GYAH! Did ya have to say his name?

In all seriousness, the idea that Destania might actually be planning the extinction of an entire sentient species is terrifying. Wiping out a non-sentient species is one thing (and it's a terrible thing, nonetheless), but wiping out a sentient species is a level of evil beyond even that. If the extermination of the Dragon race really is her plan, and if she goes through with it (even if it doesn't work for some reason), I'll lose every drop of respect for her... and frankly I hope her family and Fa'Lina does too.

[Pagan]

I'm still not convinced that the eradication of dragons would be a bad thing.
I highly doubt that Dan would like his mother wiping out a bunch of sentients. But Fa'lina? She's quite pro-Cubi and while the Cyra clan is the main target of dragons, I would bet that other Cubi harbor little appreciation for the lizards. Not to mention that destroying an entire race of powerful creatures would certainly say a lot about the strength of Destinia. Cubi don't seem as power-hungry as demons or angels, but Cubi still respect it. Dee might lose any possibility of a nomination for the Noble Peace Prize, but she would gain a nice, large spotlight in the public eye.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I think he might have meant "Sorry for stepping on you." (I'm paraphrasing a bit.)

Sure, but the intention was that all the dragons we've seen have been either heroic or apologetic.

Mine was a counter-example. See?

[Faerie Alex]

Mmm, yes...Helpful maybe (I've never seen a Pinto IRL) but not apologetic.

[Lucheek]

And I don't think we're supposed to fully agree with any race. Everybody has there flaws.

[Jairus]

And I don't think we're supposed to fully agree with any race. Everybody has there flaws.

You make a really good point. Thanks for getting it out much more succinctly than I could have managed. Abel even talked about how all Cubi aren't "evil," and it's just the way that they were raised: dragons would be no different, really.

But, I guess what I was trying to say is that you shouldn't wipe a species out just because they tend to be jerks and because a few members hold it over everyone else. Why not just kill the evil dragons and leave the rest of the jerks alone. I mean, if we were going to kill all the jerks, then we'd have to bump off Abel too, and the Jybel shippers wouldn't have that. There's got to be a better way than genocide.

And if she's really planning to seal all of them in an artificial dimension, then Destania is just asking for trouble. Imagine how angry they'll be when they finally break out... and they'll know that a Cubi was behind the plan.

[Janus Whitefurr]

And if she's really planning to seal all of them in an artificial dimension, then Destania is just asking for trouble. Imagine how angry they'll be when they finally break out... and they'll know that a Cubi was behind the plan.

Not if they don't see her do it, they won't.

[Jairus]

And if she's really planning to seal all of them in an artificial dimension, then Destania is just asking for trouble. Imagine how angry they'll be when they finally break out... and they'll know that a Cubi was behind the plan.

Not if they don't see her do it, they won't.

They'll find out. Besides, considering the nature of that old war between the Dragons and Cubi, it won't take them long to figure out who was gunning for them. And they might be furious enough to go after the whole Cubi race rather than just kill the handful of people who planned the whole thing, at which point my sympathy for the dragons would start to evaporate.

Sheesh, the only people whose side we're firmly on is the main characters: everyone else is made up of so many shades of gray it's almost impossible to tell good from bad.
...
Amber, I think I love you.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Amber, I think I love you.

She's taken. ;-]

[Jairus]

Amber, I think I love you.

She's taken. ;-]

I know.

But that doesn't mean that I can't love her for creating such a wonderful 'verse for us to enjoy!

[Mao]

Sheesh, the only people whose side we're firmly on is the main characters: everyone else is made up of so many shades of gray it's almost impossible to tell good from bad.

Except for our Heroes... they're good.

Amber, I think I love you.   

Dare you to do this to her or her husband.  It's all in the name of Science, right?

[Jairus]

Sheesh, the only people whose side we're firmly on is the main characters: everyone else is made up of so many shades of gray it's almost impossible to tell good from bad.

Except for our Heroes... they're good.

Well, yeah, that was kind of the point of the line "main characters," though I guess heroes is a better term.

Amber, I think I love you.   

Dare you to do this to her or her husband.  It's all in the name of Science, right?

If I ever meet either of them, I probably won't do that. Besides, only 'roo rats can pull that off.

[Mao]

Eh, to clarify, I meant the ones we individually consider hero's.  For example say I liked DP:  I'd have an image in my mind of him that clearly established him as either good or evil or neither that would be part of why I liked him.

[Alondro]

*Charline chuckles*  I for one would be very upset if Dee destroyed all the dragons!  I have known several that were quite... skilled.  

*Charles senses innuendo!*  

[Tapewolf]

They'll find out. Besides, considering the nature of that old war between the Dragons and Cubi, it won't take them long to figure out who was gunning for them. And they might be furious enough to go after the whole Cubi race rather than just kill the handful of people who planned the whole thing, at which point my sympathy for the dragons would start to evaporate.

It has been suggested that the Dragons started the war in an effort to eradicate the 'Cubi, though AFAIK we don't have anything solid to back that up.

Even then - even if they kicked off the genocide business in the first place - we still have pro-'Cubi or neutral dragons like Pyroduck, and (possibly) Shanna...

[Kuari]

*Charline chuckles*  I for one would be very upset if Dee destroyed all the dragons!  I have known several that were quite... skilled.  

*Charles senses innuendo!*  

...  you tried out the dragon tickling thing, didn't you?

Anyways, with the whole dragon thing, I get the feeling Mab is involved somewhere...  who knows, this might be something that ends the DMFA series somehow, though I know many people don't want to hear that its just a possibility.

[Janus Whitefurr]

And they might be furious enough to go after the whole Cubi race rather than just kill the handful of people who planned the whole thing, at which point my sympathy for the dragons would start to evaporate.

That I can see. I merely argue that someone like Destania would be good enough to either remain incognito or unrecognisable while the whole thing is going down. No use showing your face to the guys you're sealing away, after all. You don't want the last thing they see to be what you look like, after all. The art of subtlety (granted, something of that magnitude is not very subtle) is an underrated art by many.