2012

[Archanon8957]

Alright guys ive been doing alot of research about this particular date and here is what ive found...
The chinese I-ching points to the end of the world, The mayan calendar ends upbruptly december 21st, 2012, the web-bot, a computer program that grabs everything off the internet and makes a decision based on that... This one  im alittle weary about, but there is more. The Bible predicts the coming of the apocalypse soon. Yes, its not specific as most would like..but many "signs" are being fulfilled. the prophecies of merlin, im told, also speaks of the end of the world coming soon.(yes, i know the way it sounds ) Nostradamus sais the apocalypse, or the third anti-christ, will come in the time of the last pope, which would the the 112th pope. We are currently on the 111th. Einstein said once that if all the worlds bees disappeared mankind would have 4 years to live. Well, 90% of them are missing...indeed, not dead, but missing. They have not been able to recover the bee bodies. Also, planet x, also known as wormwood or nibiru (sumerian), is said to have completed its 2 or 3 thousand year cycle, and will come so close to earth it will mess up our gravitational feild. This is highly possible as nibiru is three times earth's size. Science backs this. Some say it will cause a pole shift. This is backed by science. Im not sure if this is true but i heard somewhere that a polititian confessed that global warming was just a cover story for the effects of nibiru already affecting us. Lol, theres more. I cannot tell you specifically, and i know how much all this fizzles out without specificity..but there was a politition that said a whole country is building underground to withstand the passing of nibiru...wish i could remember which country it was..o well..nix that part..
Nasa is predicting a death of 2/3 of the population by the pole shift caused by nibiru. It is also said that by 2011 the passing star will be visible to the naked eye in the sky..it will shine bright red.


All of this evidence all pointing one way...(Shrugs) not sure what to make of it. What do you guys think?

[Jairus]

Well, I'll say the same thing I said to someone else on another forum: Ten bucks says that all of these predictions are wrong, and that the world will not end on the same day that the Mayan calendar ends. And if it actually does... well, heheheh.

In all seriousness, one thing that people tend to forget about the Mayans is that their concept of the "end of the world" was a little different than a western one: to them, it was more an "end of the world as we know it," meaning that drastic changes shall happen and the world will enter a new era, but the world isn't going to be destroyed. If I recall, the Mayan's talked about how this would be the sixth such "end of the world," yet the world is still around despite having "ended" five times already.

In addition to all of that, I don't trust prophecies or anything of that nature. I really don't. It's too easy to misinterpret before something happens, and too easy to say "this is what it was talking about!" after something happens.

[bill]

"Evidence"

[Brunhidden]

i have been taught, i have read, and i have seen that yes, there will be an end to the world.....kinda

in fact, there were many ends to the world, or rather many possible endings to the world.

however mankind has grabbed fate by the lips, kicked it in the nards, and said 'go fornicate yourself with an iron rod' each time fate decided it was time to end.

and thus shall it be the next time, maybe. after all, in about 25 years an 'armageddon' style meteor is plotted to hit earth, and we already have many longterm ideas of how to swat it off course.

[Mao]

I've never really believed in fate, divine plans, prophecies  or any form of pre-destiny.  That may just be my inclination towards Discordianism speaking but given what we've seen so far it just doesn't seem likely.  Much like what Brun has said, every time our 'fated end', 'final destiny', and 'imminent doom' has come along we've found a way to avert it.  Does this mean we always will?  Likely not but it's impossible to say as far as I'm concerned.

"You are free to sever the chains of Fate that bind you."

That quote really spoke to me when I was young.  People always told me I was nothing.  A loser and will always be one.  They tried to tie me to a fate but here I am now:  I've got a good job where I'm paid well, am happy when I get there and get to do something I love,got full benefits, got lots of friends and I am very much able to weather any storm that life has thrown at me.  All because I took their little prophecy of my future and spat in it's face.  Much as any of us have done at some point or may yet do.

[Brunhidden]

fun factoid- 'armageddon' is not an event, its a place. supposedly the end of the world known as 'armageddon' happens at this place, the name literally translates to 'hill of bricks' but today its called mount caramel.

just about every major army and crazy dictator has slaughtered people there- napoleon, ghengez khan, the persians, the ottoman turks, vlad tepes dracul, at least six crusades, the spartians, imperial brittan..... although i cant remember if nazi germany or the soviet union ever had a stint there, im shaky at the geography of more modern warfare.

yeah, at the time most of those happened people probably thought the world was going to end by war and the flames of doom- yet humans withstood each time, and will continue to do so.... especially now that humans live in places other then the fertile crescent, and its hard to kill off the entire population of the world by having a land battle on one specific hill in the middle of a giant litterbox

[Archanon8957]

Well, I'll say the same thing I said to someone else on another forum: Ten bucks says that all of these predictions are wrong, and that the world will not end on the same day that the Mayan calendar ends. And if it actually does... well, heheheh.

In all seriousness, one thing that people tend to forget about the Mayans is that their concept of the "end of the world" was a little different than a western one: to them, it was more an "end of the world as we know it," meaning that drastic changes shall happen and the world will enter a new era, but the world isn't going to be destroyed. If I recall, the Mayan's talked about how this would be the sixth such "end of the world," yet the world is still around despite having "ended" five times already.

In addition to all of that, I don't trust prophecies or anything of that nature. I really don't. It's too easy to misinterpret before something happens, and too easy to say "this is what it was talking about!" after something happens.

Indeed the mayans held to these ideas. We are in the age of pisces now and december21, 2012 will mark the day we enter the age of aquarius..But yes, the mayans concept of time was cyclical, unlike the west's rigid sense of it.


Yes, we have the power to choose. Though, i could walk outside and get hit by a train and die. Would this be my choice? No, lol. I beleive that yes alot of things we have the power to change but every now and then, we come across something we cant. And as much as it might freak us out, as much as man would like to control the circumstances, Some things are just out of our reach, and over our heads.
My opinion.

[Sunblink]

I'll try to keep this fairly neutral, without me accidentally straying into a religious tangent and inadvertently derailing the thread.

I've never really believed in fate, divine plans, prophecies  or any form of pre-destiny.  That may just be my inclination towards Discordianism speaking but given what we've seen so far it just doesn't seem likely.  Much like what Brun has said, every time our 'fated end', 'final destiny', and 'imminent doom' has come along we've found a way to avert it.  Does this mean we always will?  Likely not but it's impossible to say as far as I'm concerned.

I pretty much agree with almost everything Mowser's said. I don't have believe in fate or a predestined existence, to summarize my opinions simply, without getting any of my ridiculously hippie-like, optimistic religious beliefs involved. I believe that a person's path in life is dictated by their responsibilities and actions; just as I think that the survival of our planet is dependent on what we do to prevent such a fate from occurring.

The only way I can see our planet somehow meeting its demise is through our orchestrations alone; basically if the planet's limitations have utterly been stretched, bypassed, and violated in every imaginable way. And considering how long we've lasted so far, I can't feasibly see Armageddon arriving instantaneously, without any precursor. However, it's impossible to predict what will happen in the future.

Although, I'm fairly irritated about how every foreseeable Apocalypse seems to be taking place before I've safely died of old age. I would have been laughing from the afterlife at everyone's misfortune.

~Keaton the Black Jackal

[Cogidubnus]

If the end of the world is fated to happen in 2012, worrying about it will not stop it. If it does not, then I've worried myself needlessly.

Nostradamus's prophecies are broad, and are famed for being so. I'm uncertain as to the historical existence of a wizard, alchemist, mystic, or even scientist named Merlin, although I could be wrong.
I'd be interested in knowing where you read or heard about a "Planet X" that will be appearing in 2012. I think M. Night Shamalyan is making a movie about disappearing bees, but other than that, I've heard nothing about it - again, I'd be interested in knowing where you heard about it.

The Mayan calendar has been covered already, I think. I will say that most of these things smack of conspiracy theory. I have been wrong before, but, I'm willing to say that I really rather doubt anything special will happen.

[Alondro]

*Charles will only say one thing about the end of the world*

One thing.   

[Archanon8957]

If the end of the world is fated to happen in 2012, worrying about it will not stop it. If it does not, then I've worried myself needlessly.

Nostradamus's prophecies are broad, and are famed for being so. I'm uncertain as to the historical existence of a wizard, alchemist, mystic, or even scientist named Merlin, although I could be wrong.
I'd be interested in knowing where you read or heard about a "Planet X" that will be appearing in 2012. I think M. Night Shamalyan is making a movie about disappearing bees, but other than that, I've heard nothing about it - again, I'd be interested in knowing where you heard about it.

The Mayan calendar has been covered already, I think. I will say that most of these things smack of conspiracy theory. I have been wrong before, but, I'm willing to say that I really rather doubt anything special will happen.

I heard about planet x/ nibiru off of youtube. But if you go to google and just type in planet x youll come back with ALOT of resuts.



And i can relate with your doubt of anything happening on that day....Though, the pinacle of nostradamus's work would have to be wrong, the chinese I-ching would have to be false, the mayans who predicted countless events before would have to be wrong, Einstein would have to be wrong, the web-bot would have to be wrong, the scientists would have to be wrong, Nasa would have to be wrong, and our Government would have to be telling us the truth....Does any of this seem right to anybody?

[Mao]

Yes, we have the power to choose. Though, i could walk outside and get hit by a train and die. Would this be my choice? No, lol. I beleive that yes alot of things we have the power to change but every now and then, we come across something we cant. And as much as it might freak us out, as much as man would like to control the circumstances, Some things are just out of our reach, and over our heads.
My opinion.

This doesn't however imply that was going to happen either way.  Fate, pre-destiny and the like all imply that something is in control.  I don't buy into that.  I have choice, but no real control.  I have a semblance of control in that I can influence events but in the end I really believe it's all just chance.

[Archanon8957]

Yes, we have the power to choose. Though, i could walk outside and get hit by a train and die. Would this be my choice? No, lol. I beleive that yes alot of things we have the power to change but every now and then, we come across something we cant. And as much as it might freak us out, as much as man would like to control the circumstances, Some things are just out of our reach, and over our heads.
My opinion.

This doesn't however imply that was going to happen either way.  Fate, pre-destiny and the like all imply that something is in control.  I don't buy into that.  I have choice, but no real control.  I have a semblance of control in that I can influence events but in the end I really believe it's all just chance.

And i want you to know you and your beleifs are respected. But i disagree with you 125%.
I suppose we should limit the depth of this discussion to right about here...i dont want any1's feelings hurt from this

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I heard about planet x/ nibiru off of youtube. But if you go to google and just type in planet x youll come back with ALOT of resuts.

None of which may actually be accurate. heck, I can put up ten websites (on at least four different servers that I have direct access to - so not counting geocities or the like) in an hour that state that next year, Bush will be polishing boots at The Savoy. It doesn't make it accurate.

And i can relate with your doubt of anything happening on that day....Though, the pinacle of nostradamus's work would have to be wrong, the chinese I-ching would have to be false, the mayans who predicted countless events before would have to be wrong, Einstein would have to be wrong, the web-bot would have to be wrong, the scientists would have to be wrong, Nasa would have to be wrong, and our Government would have to be telling us the truth....Does any of this seem right to anybody?

Nope. The people interpreting Nostrodamus would be wrong. Likewise I-Ching, and as for the Mayans... which events did they predict? Was it reliably identified as being that prior to the date, or only in hindsight?

Einstein himself admitted to being wrong on a number of points. No news there.

"scientists" and "web-bot" and "NASA" are all arguments from authority; no actual detail provided, you're just stating that NASA said it, therefore it's right. Citation, please, otherwise it's an empty argument.


As for the government? Heck, this is the same government that told us there were WMD's in Iraq, and the only ones they could find were the ones they shipped in to start with? Yeah, I trust them. Honest I do.

Oh, and the same government that can't manage to get a workable tax system, either. Or welfare. Or...


Need I go on?

And i want you to know you and your beleifs are respected. But i disagree with you 125%.
I suppose we should limit the depth of this discussion to right about here...i dont want any1's feelings hurt from this

*shrug* As long as everyone is being polite and is just explaining things, without getting personal, it's not a problem. Believe me, the moderators are watching. ;-]

[Mao]

And i want you to know you and your beleifs are respected. But i disagree with you 125%.
I suppose we should limit the depth of this discussion to right about here...i dont want any1's feelings hurt from this

No hurt feelings are likely, and if there are,  most will PM you first and explain their grievance with you in order to work things out.  I'm glad you're thinking about it though. 

I fully expected you to disagree with me, based on your previous posts.  I wasn't trying to convert you to my way of thinking or anything but wanted to express mine as you did.    In fact, I was hoping you'd counter by telling me more about yours.

[Sofox]

My Dad said he once had a diary where he'd written six different dates that he'd heard from various people that the world was supposed to end on.
Since then, all six have been crossed out.

[Reese Tora]

hmm... the bible says the world will end soon, eh? it said that a thousand years ago, too.

I suspect that the only reasont he I-ching says it will end on the same day as the mayans' calendar ends is that whoever interpreted the I-ching was familiar with the mayan calendar and (conciously or not) allowed that to influence the transation.

there is a nice big list of predicted ends of the world you can find with a little searching around; you may notice that most of the predictions fall in different dates and, more notable, most of them fall on dates that have already passed.

if there is some big world ending event coming up, and we can't see it approaching, then it doesn't matter, it'll happen when it happens, and there's no use changing how you live because of it.  If the predictions are false, as they have been time and time again, then there's even less reason to change.

[Archanon8957]

*shrug* As long as everyone is being polite and is just explaining things, without getting personal, it's not a problem. Believe me, the moderators are watching. ;-]

Hehe i bet they are...eyeing us like vultures...


All im saying man is that if this many sources point to one thing, sure, they could all be wrong, or misinterpreted, but is that probable?
Hrm, and yes my sources are not cited but neither or yours...i say if you want to make this an official debate, which im perfectly willing to do, given 15 billion results for keywords, "planet x" off of google, (most in support of my case) then im willing to go through with it.

And, i dont think the world will end. I just think something very big will happen on that day, and as much as that seems far-fetched in our current day, you might beleive me if something happens before that date, that would seem to complete a smoother transition into what the mayans (etc.) predicted.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Heh. Yes, you're right. I am watching like a vulture. ;-]

*cough*

I wasn't disagreeing with Planet X - heck, of your list, I think it's the most likely one to be true. It's very likely that we can miss something out in space; it's a very very VERY big place, after all. I do take exception to the "there's a big conspiracy to hide it" thing, though; I'm a strong believer in "two people can keep a secret, if one of them is dead".

I've known too many idiots to believe that a massive conspiracy, or secret government departments, or the like, would be possible to keep secret for any length of time. Anything with that many people involved is going to have a slip of the tongue, or an accidentally released document, or something.


And yes, I'd be willing to accept that there will be something interesting happening on the day. I just don't see anyone managing to provide a coherent prediction for what it is. So far, I'm saying "it'll be a normal day, just like any other" - you're the one predicting interesting things, which means that, sadly, I don't have to provide any proof. It's all in your hands. ;-]

I'm not asking for "go google it"; there are more than one possible result for planet X; it was used to refer to possible options for a tenth planet for years, so at least some of them are looking for planets lurking out around near Saturn and Neptune, or out where Pluto lurks; either way, the mere fact that a possible planet exists does not require that said planet is going to intersect with Earth's orbit in any meaningful way. You say it does and it will; provide a link to one of these results that is asserting that the tenth planet exists, is large enough to cause problems, close enough to cause problems, and is predicted to arrive in Earth's locale in 2012. I'll even accept vaguely wishy-washy data, and dodgy conclusions, if that makes it easier.


Twenty million monkeys doesn't make the Internet accurate. Just noisy. ;-]

Your ball.

[Alondro]

Planet X already missed one date!

Bad Astronomy to the rescue! 

Every time it misses, they just make up a new set of orbital parameters based on nothing but a computer model to fit someone else's doomsday predictions.  If they had the orbital parameters so well-defined, the planet would already be identified because we'd friggin know where to look.  Not to mention, if it's going to hit us in a mere 3-4 years, it'd already be within at least Uranus' orbital sphere and even at Earrth-size would be visible as a fuzzy blob moving relative to the background stars.  Again, we'd have found it by now.

And it's very possible for dozens of predictions to pick the same date for Doomsday and all of them to be wrong... just look back at the year 2000.

I put no faith at all in any thing that claims to know the year of Doom.

Because I alone know, as I will be the one who causes it.   

PS:  A passage from the book of one of the Planet X dumbasses:

A  passage From Mr. Hazlewood's book "Blindsided", page 11:

"A whole team was contacting every observatory in France -- just sent a message. The Neuchatel observatory got it. They are very excited, wondering if it is a comet or a brown dwarf, through the latest coordinates given. The daughter of the astronomer reports that they suspect a comet or a brown dwarf on the process to becoming a pulsar since it emits "waves." "

Mmm-hmm... a comet or a brown dwarf... turning into a pulsar... something either small than the Earth (comet) or at least smaller than the sun (brown dwarf) turning into a hyperdense spinning neutron star which normall results from a supernova of a supergiant star.  I believe he must have had 2/3 of his brain lobotomized at some point.  He knows less about astronomy than I did before kindergarten (I watched Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" and "Nova" as young as 2 years old, read basic astronomy books by age 4 and had quite a firm grasp of relative sizes of celestial objects and how they acted by age 5. 

Planet X destroying the Earth is sheer nonsense.

[rabid_fox]

I heard a giant scorpion was going to hatch from a furious suburban sun and rape the world to a very abused grave.

That's what I heard, anyway.

I read it in a factpaper.

[Brunhidden]

always keep in mind that 'end of the world' is a very subjective thing- what the Mayans consider the end of the world may be something the rest of us barely care about


and considering the Mayans are all dead they probably had the date wrong anyways.

[Mao]

Besides end of the world is, to me, a pretty subjective term.  End of the world as we know it? (and I feel fine)  End of all life on earth?  End of all human life on earth?  Everything we know is this world changes?  While I don't hold to any form of pre-destiny, I think that if I was going to bother to, I'd be looking to worry about something a bit more specific than that.  Especially one that is translated from another culture, era and language.  Too much room for things to get mucked up there.

[bill]

I heard a giant scorpion was going to hatch from a furious suburban sun and rape the world to a very abused grave.

That's what I heard, anyway.

I read it in a factpaper.

it's me, i'm the giant scorpion in this post

[rabid_fox]

Stop raping me with your stinger, then, you baddie.

[Gareeku]

Oh whoopee, another end-of-the-world thread. What utter nonsense.

I'm pretty sure that loads of people have said "oh the world is going to end" on various dated which have already passed, and guess what? We're still here. It just sounds totally idiotic.

[Don]

Random Citizen: The world is going to end!
Me: *Yawn*

...I was raised in the whole religion thing and i do think the world will end one day but I'm sick of people trying to predict it..seriously they say all these things getting my hopes up and then when the time comes the world is still in tact..well as in tact as it can be with the way things are going..

meh..my opinion doesn't really matter in these types of discussions, i guess id actually have to care about it all for my words to matter.

Wellp, back to running around aimlessly in edmonton

[Archanon8957]

hrm...with a little bit of humility, and having read several things that DID NOT support my hypothesis about this date, my pov is being re-evaluated. For instance, and as a person said before, the passing of planet X has been miscalculated. This was for the spring of 2003. "Science" supposedly supported it.

Though, it just doesnt seem right how all these different cultures, particularly the Mayans, who predicted dead on when things would happen before, would be wrong. All things considered, I reserve judgement on 2012.

[Vekar]

This has been bucking around politcal forums for oh since I started using political forums. You can go to this website to have a look at their 2012 threads which can get ugly or in depth:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/

Anyway, I see it like this:
2012, Mayan calander ends on this day, cults say end of the world, non-cults as well, shoot just about anyone out there screams the sky is falling on 2012.

Hence: On December, whatever 2012 that the world is supposed to end, if it is going to end I suggest you get yourself:
1: A lawn chair
2: A cold drink
3: A pair of sunglasses
4: A good book.
Then just sit there and either read into boredom as the day passes or watch the fireworks as the world ends.

Then again, if the world is going to "end" I see it like this: either were all going to be dead, so no point in worrying about it, or as I believe, it means the end of one era and the begining of another.

I see armaggedon and 2012 as a "if anything happens" then it will just mean the end of one age and the begining of another for good or for evil.

[Brunhidden]

This has been bucking around politcal forums for oh since I started using political forums. You can go to this website to have a look at their 2012 threads which can get ugly or in depth:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/
1: A lawn chair
2: A cold drink
3: A pair of sunglasses
4: A good book.

i recommend 'good omens'