10/13/07 [Abel #102] - Gonna die

[Turnsky]

Edit: Though if Edward turned out to be Aniz in disguise, it would really suck for Dan to have two psychotic, evil parents instead of just one.  And being Abel's half brother.

Edit2: I cannot find a shot of Edward with a good view of his left forearm(Where we would see the clan mark if it was Aniz)  And the only shot where we would see it, 298, it is covered.

Dammit, now you're creeping me out 

Aniz and Edward look pretty similar.  Dan, Alexsi and Aniz have the same kind of tail.  I haven't yet found a shot of Ed's tail.

If It would certainly explain why Dee didn't kill him, and it would explain why Edward didn't let the others kill her.  But then, if Edward is a 'Cubi, why are there no shots of his wings?  Dee let hers show in private.

that and Cid looked a little like Edward also.

mind you, we could all be drawing lines that aren't there..

i prefer to blindside people with a combine harvester, personally, Anders. 

[superluser]

These statements seem to indicate that a cubi offspring is likely from a cubi-being pairing

But Amber has said that it is possible for cubi/being pairings to result in a being.  Heck, that's the whole crux of the ``Aniz fathered Devin'' theory.

Edit3: I would think that Aniz would have a hard time fooling Destania.  Not to mention that Amber has used Dan as a reference when talking about Being/Creature breading, saying that Dan looks more like Edward.

Yes, for this to work, Destania would have to know that Edward was an incubus.

Oh, and Being/Creature breading is very tasty.

If It would certainly explain why Dee didn't kill him, and it would explain why Edward didn't let the others kill her.  But then, if Edward is a 'Cubi, why are there no shots of his wings?  Dee let hers show in private.

Do we have any cases where Edward would be in private?  Say, only among Ti'Fionas and `cubi?

The only bits that I remember seeing of Edward were from that flashback, which was being narrated by Alexsi, who probably didn't know that Edward was an incubus.  Much in the same way that none of the Rewanzs seem to know that Cid was an incubus.

[Naldru]

Damn it, its the which of Abel's parents is the cubi argument all over again.  Neither side can disprove the other.

I don't think Amber particularly likes surprises.

Oh I don't mind them.   I just don't go out of my way to throw them into every possible comic.  I tend to prefer to just coast along and let the really big ones blindside people like a steamroller.

I don't want to be ganked by a steamroller again.

Well, I think it's pretty clear that Destania (a cubi) is Dan's mother and that Aniz (a cubi) is Abel's father.  And if Amber has put the pedal to the metal on that steamroller, I don't think anything is going to stop her.

But I seem to have started an intense but gentile thread of conversation.   I am happy.

And just to keep the pot simmering (but please don't let it boil), suppose that Edward was a cubi but didn't tell Destania until well after the wedding.  Sort of "See.  It is possible for a cubi to become less evil".  Furthermore, everybody knew that Destania was a cubi.  For her to go disguised as a human all the time would have probably just made the locals more nervous.  (After all, the villagers did try to kill her.)

[AndersW]

Well, I think it's pretty clear that Destania (a cubi) is Dan's mother and that Aniz (a cubi) is Abel's father.  And if Amber has put the pedal to the metal on that steamroller, I don't think anything is going to stop her.

But I seem to have started an intense but gentile thread of conversation.   I am happy.

And just to keep the pot simmering (but please don't let it boil), suppose that Edward was a cubi but didn't tell Destania until well after the wedding.  Sort of "See.  It is possible for a cubi to become less evil".  Furthermore, everybody knew that Destania was a cubi.  For her to go disguised as a human all the time would have probably just made the locals more nervous.  (After all, the villagers did try to kill her.)

I'm pretty sure that I started the current talk about whether or not Edward could be Aniz.  I went looking for evidence to disprove it, and couldn't find any.

And I think you mean being instead of human in your post.

Also, a picture for fun.

[Naldru]

I was referring to whether there had been a comment about Edward being Alexsi's biological father.

You're right, I meant being.  Going around disguised as a human would really have attracted attention.

I was also thinking about whether a steamroller or a combine harvester should be used for rolling over the readers.  I guess a combine harvester would result in more edible parts.

[AndersW]

I was referring to whether there had been a comment about Edward being Alexsi's biological father.

You're right, I meant being.  Going around disguised as a human would really have attracted attention.

I was also thinking about whether a steamroller or a combine harvester should be used for rolling over the readers.  I guess a combine harvester would result in more edible parts.

You are right, you did start it, but I was the catalyst.

It depends on the type of combine harvester you have, what type of crop it is designed to harvest.  But I don't think any of them would make very edible pieces.  And Amber used steamroller because it is slow and hard to miss.

[AndersW]

...

Psst, I have some confidential information...

Abel lives... spread the word.

Abel?

Because at least we'll be sure he'd live trough it.

You have nooOoooOoOoOooo idea how much I toyed with the idea of trying to find a way to kill off Abel in his own backstory.

Oops double post, sorry.

[Zedd]

I don't think Amber particularly likes surprises.

Oh I don't mind them.   I just don't go out of my way to throw them into every possible comic.  I tend to prefer to just coast along and let the really big ones blindside people like a steamroller.

I don't want to be ganked by a steamroller again.

Yes you do...You love it!

[Kamunt]

I personally think that all of this conspiracy talk it pretty silly. Also, can I have a reference to where Amber said it was possible for a creature/being couple to produce a being? I never said it wasn't possible, it's just that thus far there have been no such cases of a creature/being couple producing a being. I had always figured that creature "genes" were just dominant over being genes, but if Amber has things to say otherwise in the matter, then far be it from my job to try and stop a steamroller. ...Or something.

[AndersW]

http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1438.msg56507#msg56507

I cannot seem to quote her comment because it says that I am not logged in.

edit: now it can tell that I am logged in but won't let me quote anyone.

[Kamunt]

And Ink was WROOOOOOONG!

The problem that occasionally happens when you have a limited cast of characters is that oftentimes the exceptions are considered the norm. For example when Dan first went to the Academy, a lot of people were under the impression that the Academy just swoops in and carries off Cubi children when they get their headwings.  Which isn't the case at all.  But it looks like it.

I think Ink mistook a previous comment I made in that I said when it comes to Cubi genetics, there is an all or nothing approach.  Either the kid will be a Cubi or they wont. There is no "half breed" in the sense a kid has some Cubi abilities but none of their weaknesses or some stupid-lame Blade form of powergaming.   At the very most, a being-child might have some magical inclinations but they don't have any of the Cubi natural abilities.

I should make a breeding chart to give a good example of the success rates/results of various races interbreeding...but I suck at making tables!  Oh god do I suck!

I hope you can see this, because I'm doing it as hard as I can. It really hurts.

[AndersW]

Yes I can see you quoting it, it just wouldn't let me quote it.

It's probably messing up because I am using a different computer than normal.

[Reese Tora]

So dan could have a little Aniz in him

I wonder if that makes 'cubihood a recesive trait (such that a 'cubi descended being is more likley to ahve a cubi ofspring with a real 'cubi) or a dominant trait that doesn't transfer to the being children(hence them not being cubi themselves).

[Naldru]

If being a cubi is a recessive trait, wouldn't that mean that two beings descended from cubi could marry and have a cubi offspring.  I would think that that would be something of a surprise if they didn't know cubi were among the grandparents.

[Kamunt]

Yes I can see you quoting it, it just wouldn't let me quote it.

It's probably messing up because I am using a different computer than normal.

Actually, I just copy-pasted her post there, copy-pasted the URL of her post, and completely made up a posting date because I had to. >D In actuality, I can't quote it, either. The reason for this is that the topic is locked, so thus, no post in it can be quoted properly any longer.

[Alondro]

The truth will be that everyone is related to everyone else, making them all West Virginians (inbred, toothless hick stereotype, for all those not from the US) and they all live in a teeny torus-like universe created from a failed warp drive experiment.  Their world will eventually collapse and they will all cease to exist.

And the comic will end!   

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Actually, I just copy-pasted her post there, copy-pasted the URL of her post, and completely made up a posting date because I had to. >D In actuality, I can't quote it, either. The reason for this is that the topic is locked, so thus, no post in it can be quoted properly any longer.

... or you can fake it, which works just as well. ;-]

[Psaakyrn]

Heh... in an "at least it can't get any worse" sort of way, you mean?

well he could have to relived that day over and over again   

And that's when he meets the resident psychatrist.

You know, the only doctor in SAIA?

[Janus Whitefurr]

Also, a picture for fun.
[steam roller/dip truck]

(Yes, I know it's from WFRR but...)

Dio Brando strikes again! ROAD ROLLAH!

[Jigsaw Forte]

So dan could have a little Aniz in him

I wonder if that makes 'cubihood a recesive trait (such that a 'cubi descended being is more likley to ahve a cubi ofspring with a real 'cubi) or a dominant trait that doesn't transfer to the being children(hence them not being cubi themselves).

Dominant. We have never seen a situation where two Beings have made a cubi (which is a sign of recessive traits), and as Amber said, either you make a cubi or you don't.

[DarkAudit]

The truth will be that everyone is related to everyone else, making them all West Virginians (inbred, toothless hick stereotype, for all those not from the US) and they all live in a teeny torus-like universe created from a failed warp drive experiment.  Their world will eventually collapse and they will all cease to exist.

And the comic will end!   

a-HEM!!

Not before Charline perishes in a scene of unimaginable violence fueled by copious amounts of moonshine on a bed of innumerable flaming couches.

MONTANI SEMPER LIBERI!!!

[King Of Hearts]

Country road~ take me home~ to the place~ I belong~

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Dominant. We have never seen a situation where two Beings have made a cubi (which is a sign of recessive traits), and as Amber said, either you make a cubi or you don't.

The problem is, "we haven't seen it" is not the same as "it doesn't exist" - we've seen Cubi + Being = Cubi, but we still only have guesses as to if Being + Cubi can make Being. It would make sense, if Cubi is dominant, that "full" Cubi plus Being would make a Cubi every time, but "half" Cubi plus "full" Being would only make a Cubi one time in four - and "half" Cubi plus "half" Cubi would make a Cubi child three times in four.

Or, in graphical terms:
C = Cubi gene, b = Being gene
A "full" Cubi would carry the Cubi gene on both sides. A "half" would carry half Cubi, half Being genes.

"full" Cubi + "half" Cubi          C C C CC CC b CC Cb

"half" Cubi + "half" Cubi          C b C CC Cb b Cb bb

"full" Cubi + "full" Being          C C b Cb Cb b Cb Cb

"half" Cubi + "full" Being C b b Cb bb b Cb bb

Full Being + Full Being is obviously always going to bring out a full Being, barring any other interference from magic and the like. Likewise, a full Cubi match is going to bring out Cubi every time. However, from this, we can see that a "full" and "half" match will, likewise, always bring out a Cubi; however, two halves will bring out a Being one time in four. A full Cubi would bring out a Cubi child even with a Being, but a "half" Cubi would only get every other child as a Cubi.

Of course, all this is a guess, is based on Mendelevian genetics, and presumes only a single gene controls the situation. All of which is probably wrong; Amber has mentioned that magic overrides genetics, and Cubi is probably something that involves a lot more than a single gene; at which point gene groups and clustering and all sorts of other neat features jump up and make things a -lot- more complex.

-IF- that is correct (and that's a _big_ if) we can see that, out of, say, every 16 children born to Cubi, it wouldn't be too far off to expect 11 of them to be Cubi. Since we've only seen, what, 2 Cubi children (Dan, Abel... who else?) we've got a -very- small sample size, and statistics is of no use whatsoever. So... we might as well close our eyes and throw a dart at the dartboard - it'll be just as easy, and just as accurate. And a lot more fun.


Edit:
Erm. Damn, that was more text than I thought. Sorry, Amber. I got carried away with making a point. :-/ Suffice it to say, we don't really know anything and we're all just guessing. :-]

[Jigsaw Forte]

Dominant. We have never seen a situation where two Beings have made a cubi (which is a sign of recessive traits), and as Amber said, either you make a cubi or you don't.

- Huge Genetics Rant Here -

You bring up one interesting point I failed to see - that if we presume purely genetic rationale, it's possible for a pair of Cubi parents to make Being children (akin to a 'squib' from Harry Potter), which is something we certainly haven't seen.

This said, Mab still owes us the whole Genetics 101 spiel... 

[Zedd]

Also, a picture for fun.
[steam roller/dip truck]

(Yes, I know it's from WFRR but...)

Dio Brando strikes again! ROAD ROLLAH!

WRYYYYYY!!!!

[DarkAudit]

Country road~ take me home~ to the place~ I belong~

Damn tootin' 

[Alondro]

Country road~ take me home~ to the place~ I belong~

Damn tootin' 

*Charline bah*  Go back to yer pot fields all marked "Trespasers Will Git Shot".   

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

- Huge Genetics Rant Here -

I think that's the clearest summation I've seen in years... ;-]

Waffle waffle waffle. ;-]

[Fuyudenki]

I think the final argument for Aniz and Edward being different people was that Amber said Abel has not met Edward, and he obviously has met Aniz.

He didn't meet Cid, though.  Cid died before Abel was born.  He did meet Cid by proxy, though, on account of Aniz was apparently doing a stellar job of pretending to be Cid, himself.  Good enough to fool May.

Abel?

Because at least we'll be sure he'd live trough it.

You have nooOoooOoOoOooo idea how much I toyed with the idea of trying to find a way to kill off Abel in his own backstory.

I think Amber should resume trying to kill Abel off in his own backstory.

Unless of course Cyra's clan happens to be more powerful than the one Aniz is from.  In the case of two Cubi from different clans having children, the more powerful clan will pass the symbol on to their offspring.

Not that this means anything.

Waaaait... are Dan and Abel going to get married and have kids, and they're going to be Cyra clan Cubi, because Dan's clan is more powerful than Abel's?

[AndersW]

- Huge Genetics Rant Here -

Do you know how many cat-girls you just killed llearch.

I think the final argument for Aniz and Edward being different people was that Amber said Abel has not met Edward, and he obviously has met Aniz.

He didn't meet Cid, though.  Cid died before Abel was born.  He did meet Cid by proxy, though, on account of Aniz was apparently doing a stellar job of pretending to be Cid, himself.  Good enough to fool May.

You contradict yourself.  You say that Aniz cannot be Edward, because Abel has not met Ed and has met Aniz.  Then you say that Abel has not met Cid Because it was Aniz all along.  It is possible Abel could have not met Edward because Ed was killed by Aniz.