Brotherhood of the Machine (OOC) [PG/14] - Open - New players welcome!

[techmaster-glitch]

That's not very believable. Jexx has been randomly killing quite a few of their men in many different towns for quiet some time. Based on everything we know about the Brotherhood, it is virtually unthinkable that they would allow something like that to go unpunished if they could do otherwise. Jexx has operated the entire time on ambushing tactics. He wouldn't be difficult to take down if he was the one ambushed. If the general command of the Brotherhood knew him, they could take him at any time. The right moment to take Jexx would be...before Jexx makes another move. And if the general command knows, so does the one preist I'm referencing. If he knew, he would immediately organize a strike force and go in person to facilitate Jexx's death or re-capture. Jexx is only remaining evidence of part of a significant top-secret Brotherhood investment (and a personal one to those involved). Though as you once said, the project in question has been re-purposed, but this is the older version I'm talking about.


But going back to the first point. I do realize that this is entirely your universe, Ryudo, and you are entitled to blow it up if you want. I'm just saying that, the uber-paranoid Brotherhood waiting on something like this seems to contradict everything you have made about them.


And if it seems like I'm sometimes trying to make everything 'all about Jexx', that is not the case, I assure you. Quite the opposite in fact. I'm actually trying to get Jexx's story done and over with so it doesn't have to be brought up again, so he can take a backseat (plotwise) for the rest of the RP and remove any possibility of him falling back into the 'spotlight', so to speak.

[Azlan]

Tech, how about we just marginalize you and your background?  Perhaps your priest gets politically ousted and his powerbase eliminated... or he gets terminated, thereby erasing this issue completely?

Like Ryudo, I have a significant background in D&D, the character's background is just that... a background.  It is information the GM/DM/Storyteller can use, if he chooses to.  Just because you might write a wonderfully scripted 30 page detailed novel on your character, their family, its enemies and the tragedy of his life that lead to what he is today, does not mean the GM is required to play by your guidelines, rules or requirements.  He isn't even required to regard it at all, he can ignore it or marginalize it.

I have seen this happen often, mostly among groups of strangers, and as such I have learned a valuable life lesson from it.  I keep the details at hand, but only include basic snippets to provide a framework or to generate interest.  If a gamemaster is one who actually wishes to exploit backgrounds, then I feed the necessary data if prompted by an interested inquiry from the GM.  No prompt, means he is not interested.  If he does look into it, you need to judge what he requires.  Some GMs only wish for basic outlines, names and circumstances... they prefer to fill it all in themselves with the appropriate baddies and plots.  Others want the whole thing so they don't have to do one ounce of extra work.  Some want backgrounds to ensure the characters have depth and value, but have no desire to include much of it into the plot.  A few wish to make players work hard to develop a character, gain attachments, and then revel in the emotions as they thoroughly tear it down in front of a player's eyes.  Still others want backgrounds because they have no idea what they want to do in a campaign and want the players to script it all out for them so they have time to gain direction.  Others just want to be annoying and make players work as hard as they have in writing their campaign, whether or not they acknowledge the background.

Ryudo has his own plans, he is working with your background, possibly because it worked for him or it interested him.  I have just as much depth and devotion to my character, but Ryudo shows no interest or care for mine, so I have marginalized it.  It does no one any justice to keep dropping excessive hints, or really straining to keep throwing in the history to nearly every post... that can truly be annoying.  That might not be meant for you as much as for others.

You need to realize that it is the GMs world, his game and the players are merely along for the ride.  yes, we are here to have fun, but unlike the GM, who gets to have his cake and eat it too, players have to adjust their entertainment towards the ends of a campaign.  Rare is it the GM that cares enough to accommodate all their player's wants and desires... it is impossible.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

That's not very believable.

On the contrary. They might well be presuming him to be part of the Rebellion, and be watching him to see if they can track him back to them. Or they might just be playing with him, cat-like. Or they might have multiple priests in multiple areas vying with each other to see if they can, ah, direct him, without him realising it, into each other's areas. After all, sending someone unrelated to you to kill someone else's troops is the ultimate sneaky bastard move, as well as being very effective. ;-]

To The Brotherhood, a few zealots - or even enforcers and priests - in exchange for Jackson Phoenix and his cabal would be cheap at the price. Even just for seriously inconveniencing Jackson, for that matter. As I understand it, The Brotherhood has a totally different view to you or I as to the value of individual human life. To them, whatever you spend, you spend to achieve something. If that involves breaking some of your toys, so be it, as long as you accomplish something with it.

Spending a Tower in a remote place to knobble JP would be expensive, but justifiable, if it worked.


Again, this is as I understand it, and hence subject to correction from Ryudo...

[techmaster-glitch]

Azlan:I don't think Jexx's whole backstory is that big It's not even that complex

llearch: You have a very devious mind. And I mean that in the best possible good way What you say just might be workable...


But you're all probably right. I might send the relevant pieces of Jexx's information to Ryudo as situations come up, as opposed to the excessive hinting (which, believe it or not, I don't enjoy doing), but from now on I will try harder to go with the flow of what Ryudo says.

My apologies for any inconviences to anyone (which I seem to have done quite a bit recently, and not just here. For that I am very sorry).

[Ryudo Lee]

Going to what Az said about my attention to his background, I do fully intend on putting focus in some form or another on everyone in regards to their connection to the Brotherhood or Rebellion.  So don't feel like I'm ignoring your work... I just haven't gotten there yet.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

llearch: You have a very devious mind. And I mean that in the best possible good way What you say just might be workable...

Why, thank you. I think. ;-]

[Azlan]

Going to what Az said about my attention to his background, I do fully intend on putting focus in some form or another on everyone in regards to their connection to the Brotherhood or Rebellion.  So don't feel like I'm ignoring your work... I just haven't gotten there yet.

That's not specifically what I intended, it was a generality as opposed to an accusation... it does sound kind of bad, sorry about that.

[Tapewolf]

I've just re-sequenced things slightly to take Ryudo's post into account.  Dorcan isn't supposed to be comic relief, but I couldn't resist that one.

[Azlan]

Josh's post is not consistent with the previous chains he was involved in.  If Jexx was transmitting over the global comms, that is fine for him, but Morgan only transmits if I state he is speaking over the comms and I italicize the text without quotations.  Morgan's reply was conversational, point to point transmissions... only the immediate team can hear it.  I have kept this consistent, so there is no excuse for missing that at this point.  An adjustment will need to be made. 

[lucas marcone]

"Oh, will you give it a freaking rest already? This ain't your Ivy-League high-class military here, we're just a ragtag band of random rebels! Stop expecting everyone to be as 'enlightened' as you are, because, belive it or not, your elitist attitude gets a little annoying!"

jexx was complaining and josh not hearing anyone else on the comms assumed it was someone who could infact do point to point.

[Azlan]

"Oh, will you give it a freaking rest already? This ain't your Ivy-League high-class military here, we're just a ragtag band of random rebels! Stop expecting everyone to be as 'enlightened' as you are, because, believe it or not, your elitist attitude gets a little annoying!"

jexx was complaining and josh not hearing anyone else on the comms assumed it was someone who could infact do point to point.

Unfortunately to assume makes an ass out of you and me.  Nothing along the conversation you are aware of indicates that anything other then one idiotic youth was arguing, to indicate otherwise is a large insult I do not appreciate.  Please do not metagame.

[lucas marcone]

before this is rectified any more than it is


what is meta game? and i do not mean to insult

[Azlan]

before this is rectified any more than it is


what is meta game? and i do not mean to insult

Straight from wikipedia: In role-playing games, metagaming is the use of out-of-character knowledge in an in-character situation. A character played by a metagamer does not act in a way that reflects the character's in-game experiences and back-story.

They include some examples to clarify this meaning:

Examples of metagaming include:

    * Adjusting a character's actions if the player has some foreknowledge of the long-term intentions of the gamemaster.
    * Using certain types of attack or defense based on the strengths and weaknesses of a monster/other characters the character knows nothing of, for example a weakness to fire-based magic.
    * Acting on technical and/or scientific knowledge that the character is not or could not be aware of (such as creating gunpowder in a dark ages or middle ages setting).
    * Adjusting a character's behavior towards other player characters based on real-life relationships with other players.
    * Using knowledge of the game's mechanics to gain an advantage in the game.
    * Assuming that something that appears to be wrong or unlikely in the game world is a mistake of the gamemaster rather than something that could be investigated.
    * Assuming that if an item (often a chest, desk or book-case) is mentioned by the gamemaster during the initial description of an area, it must have some relevance to the storyline, and immediately searching or examining it (while ignoring other furnishings or objects that are most likely there as well).
    * Deciding on a character's course of action based on how the game's mechanics will affect the outcome.
    * Any action that is based upon the knowledge that one is playing a game.
    * Another form of metagaming occurs as a form of powergaming during character creation, when a player takes flaws or liabilities that they know the gamemaster is unlikely to fully exploit, thereby acquiring extra creation options without paying a corresponding penalty.

[lucas marcone]

Josh didn't know who Jexx was argueing with and didn't really care. he adressed the statement to both parties. one was known(Jexx) the other was not. but he never mentioned a name and what Jexx was saying implied more than one party engaged in conversation.

[Azlan]

Josh didn't know who Jexx was argueing with and didn't really care. he adressed the statement to both parties. one was known(Jexx) the other was not. but he never mentioned a name and what Jexx was saying implied more than one party engaged in conversation.

You imply a statement of two, not a generalization that encompasses the three... for all you know he was arguing with Dorcan and Morgan.

Josh heard Jexx on the comms. "Oh will you two stop bickering like an old married couple!

This is only important to the fact that in-character, I am fostering a sense of the one sided argument and a show of mission professionalism.  Morgan restricts his comments and reprimands to the local team of three. 

Edit: I am not going to do anything further until Ryudo is allowed to respond to the flurry of activity.

[lucas marcone]

Josh only herd Jexx. from his one sided arguement Josh concluded that Jexx was argueing with someone. He did not know who. When he make his comment he directed it at Jexx and whoever he was argueing with. you took Josh's comment as knowing that morgan was the other party. I'm trying to say Josh did not know but was just adressing the fact that Josh made a general statement.

oh will you two stop...yadda yadda yadda

to josh jexx was argueing with someone. he wasnt about to bother with how many people he was argueing with it was preoccupied with the fact that he was argueing with some one. you're placeing to much importance on a simple phraseing of words in my opinion but i can assure you i in no way used the occ to try to gain an advantage.


like i said i am not trying to offend anyone. and please excuse my short temper and restricted thinking at the moment as it is late and i am tired. i just want this cleared up.

[Ryudo Lee]

Josh didn't know who Jexx was talking about, so logically, he should have directed his comment towards Jexx specifically instead of everyone else.  His comment should have been "Will you please quit it with the b*tching Jexx" or something along those lines.  I'm sure he can assume that Jexx is arguing with someone, but it's Jexx that he's talking to, so it's Jexx that he should direct the comment to.

[lucas marcone]

fine. how would you edit that. i want everyone to be happy. so i can get on with the show.

[Ryudo Lee]

Just take the line out entirely.  Without it, you're just arguing with Jexx over his comments.

Josh heard Jexx on the comms. "Oh will you two stop bickering like an old married couple! and Jexx incase you've forgotten even in the rebelion there is a chain of command! or do you fancy yourself a better leader than Jackson?"

Becomes...

Josh heard Jexx on the comms. "Jexx incase you've forgotten even in the rebelion there is a chain of command! or do you fancy yourself a better leader than Jackson?"

[lucas marcone]

I'd like it to go on record though, that even though im going to edit my post. i am only doing so so that everyone stops argueing over the simple fact of what Josh can infer from one guy argueing with thin air.

[techmaster-glitch]

*pops in, reads posts*

... ...this is all my fault, isn't it?
I'm sorry.

[lucas marcone]

edited post. but made the comment seem more vaguely adressed. let's see if azzy will let that slide.


yay for comprimises.

[Tapewolf]

Morgan decided now would be a good time to put a little distance between himself and the others, so he took point.

Azlan, did you mean 'put a little distance between himself and his teammates' or 'put a little distance between himself and the Brotherhood patrol'?

It could potentially be either, since he might be moving ahead to lead the others on as before, or he might be leading the three of them to somewhere safer.  It doesn't really matter which, but it makes writing for Dorcan a little harder without knowing whether he's still with Morgan or not...

[Ryudo Lee]

I'd like it to go on record though, that even though im going to edit my post. i am only doing so so that everyone stops argueing over the simple fact of what Josh can infer from one guy argueing with thin air.

That's not the way it is.  You know he's aruging with someone, but you don't know who.  From the look of it, to me, the rest of your posts are Josh basing Jexx over leadership issues.  So this edit makes it look like you're starting that because Jexx is starting yet another bickering contest.

[lucas marcone]

that means what? you would just have me delete the comment altogether? josh was pissed at jexx initially because he wis tired of hearing jexx complain and argue so much. so he made himself heard. then yes he went on to explain to jexx the importance of "command"

[Arcalane]

I'm going to have to crack some heads together, aren't I?

[techmaster-glitch]

If I may be of constructive assistance here...
Josh, try something like this: "Oh, will Jexx and whoever's aruging with him stop bickering for five minutes?"
When you say: "Oh, will you guys stop bickering" it implies that you might know who Jexx was arguing with, and that's the problem.

I'm going to have to crack some heads together, aren't I? 

Yes, probably. *sigh*

[lucas marcone]

it does? how? i dont see it.

[Ryudo Lee]

It makes more sense just to take out that first line, then the context of the whole conversation sticks to Jexx specifically.

[Azlan]

I'm just a stickler for little details... a devious player once used a string of unrelated comments, all minor, but made inappropriately with metagame knowledge, to railroad a number of the other players into an investigation by a Senate Oversight Committee in a Conspiracy X game some years back.  The comments were largely similar to yours, but they involved more serious implications of communications outside normal channels and less then legal dealings in some cases... alone they were meaningless, but when put in the right context, they were the impetus for the player to begin looking for evidence.  Without these clues he may never have gotten the clues needed and his insertion as a mole would have been largely uneventful.

This kind of thing may never happen again, but I am paranoid... plus it is wrong.


Look at it this way, say you were a plant for the Brotherhood (all your magic is just really cool technology) and we were back at the Rebellion headquarters.  Since we all love these comms so much, the team is chatting over it while in their separate quarters.  Your Brotherhood contact in the Rebellion headquarters (played as an NPC by Ryudo) has just arrived and you are both meeting in secret, but you are also keeping up appearances by chatting on the comms.

You and your traitorous friend discuss your plots to topple the base when Jackson leaves in an hour.  One of the team makes a comment that Jackson is leaving and you make an unrelated comment to your traitorous acts like... "when the cat is away the mice will play."  Intending to be a quip about the team getting a break from missions for awhile.

I use the context of your posts somewhat sketchy ambiguity to justify sneaking over to your quarters (because my out-of-game knowledge, I know you are meeting with a Brotherhood plant) and over hear your plans... report you to Jackson with recorded conversation.  You and the plant are captured and a whole plot line is ruined.

Extreme, yes... but it is in the same vein as what I am arguing about.