Once again Tinky Winky is in the gay spot light

[thegayhare]

Poland Investigates Tinky Winky For Homosexuality
by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff

Posted: May 28, 2007 - 4:00 pm ET

(Warsaw) The Polish government has reportedly begun an investigation to determine if Tinky Winky and other Teletubbies are promoting homosexuality to children.

The Reuters news service reported Monday that the government's watchdog for children's rights has asked a panel of psychologists to investigate the popular children's television series.

Ewa Sowinska said she was concerned the popular show promoted homosexuality to unsuspecting minors.

Her remarks were immediately likened to those several years ago of the late US evangelist Jerry Falwell who accused Tinky Winky of being gay because he carried a purse.

Falwell's remarks were largely dismissed at the time by even most of his evangelical supporters, but Poland's actions are the latest in a series of anti-gay moves that have European civil rights advocates concerned about a potential pogrom.

Earlier this month Education Minister Roman Giertych unveiled draft legislation that would make it a criminal offence to "promote homosexual propaganda" in schools. (story)

If passed the measure would essentially censor all discussion of homosexuality in schools and other academic institutions. LGBT organizations would be barred from schools and "teachers who reveal their homosexuality will be fired from work."

Giertych's draft bill, however, does not say exactly would constitute promoting homosexuality.

Giertych defined it as "every action that is dependent on the public presentation of a certain belief with the intention of convincing others to that viewpoint." But critics say it is so vague it could lead to witch hunts.

Polish President Lech Kaczynski supports the bill.

Last year, the State Prosecutor's office issued a letter to prosecutors in the municipalities of Legnica, Wroclaw, Walbryzch, Opole and Jelenia Gora ordering in sweeping terms investigations into the conduct of "homosexuals" on unspecified allegations of "pedophilia."

normaly I don't post political stuff here but...
Look it was funny when it was a silly preacher that said it... now a governmental agency is getting involved... I teletubies for crying out loud the freaking people in costumes dancing around and dieing from heat exhastion for children leave them alone

[King Of Hearts]

That bill is discriminatory...

...somone forgot Poland.

[RJ]

 

Though, I was always sure Tinky Winky was a female. It's so darn hard to tell.

[Aridas]

They were pretty much kids. You can't really tell WHAT they are. And I don't see what the fuss is. You can't just decide you want to be gay. and you can't catch teh gay from anything. Why are they going nuts?

[superluser]

You know, if it takes the Teletubbies off the air in one country, I'll be happy.

[Zina]

You know, if it takes the Teletubbies off the air in one country, I'll be happy.

Why? It's just a harmless tv show aimed at little kids.

[thegayhare]

But then what would the polish watch when stoned?

Though Zina does have a piont...

It's like the 30-50 year old comic book geeks I hear arguing about how terrible Krypto the super dog is and how it's destroying the super man franchise...

it's a show aimed at children it harms nothing

[King Of Hearts]

Big Brother?

[Zina]

It's like the 30-50 year old comic book geeks I hear arguing about how terrible Krypto the super dog is and how it's destroying the super man franchise...

it's a show aimed at children it harms nothing

Exactly. I don't see why people complain about how terrible shows like Teletubbies or Boobah are, when they aren't the intended audience. Of course they're going to seem stupid to you, they're meant for little kids. So unless you're being forced to, don't watch it.

[Valynth]

[snip] So unless you're being forced to, don't watch it.

I'd still eat my own eyes first...

[superluser]

Why? It's just a harmless tv show aimed at little kids.

Mindless, more like.

I remember old-school kids' TV, where they would spend half an hour describing the differences between different types of map projections, or some kid would wind up in an alternate dimension where he had to use his l33t sentence-diagramming skills to stop the forces of Thorzuul.

Nowadays, we have Christopher Lloyd and Gilbert Gottfried teaching kids arithmetic.  Which isn't half as bad as Teletubbies, which teaches kids nothing.  I watched a bit of it once, and it looked just like some freaky puppets watching TV and then saying `AGAIN' and watching it again.

[Valynth]

[snip] I watched a bit of it once, and it looked just like some freaky puppets watching TV and then saying `AGAIN' and watching it again.

Dare I point out how close that is to most of the viewers real futures?

[Zina]

Why? It's just a harmless tv show aimed at little kids.

Mindless, more like.

I remember old-school kids' TV, where they would spend half an hour describing the differences between different types of map projections, or some kid would wind up in an alternate dimension where he had to use his l33t sentence-diagramming skills to stop the forces of Thorzuul.

Nowadays, we have Christopher Lloyd and Gilbert Gottfried teaching kids arithmetic.  Which isn't half as bad as Teletubbies, which teaches kids nothing.  I watched a bit of it once, and it looked just like some freaky puppets watching TV and then saying `AGAIN' and watching it again.

That would be because Teletubbies is intended for children around the age of 0-3, who can barely speak, let alone form full sentences. It might seem mindless to you because you don't have the mind of a infant, but children of that age actually do respond well to repeated actions, colorful images and simple, non-threatening characters.

[Amber Williams]

Yargh. Back in my day we used to play with rocks. And dirt. And more rocks. And you never saw us complain. *shake cane*

Ugh...seriously...I never understood the "Grrr. I hate this show." wank some people bring forth regarding shows like Teletubbies and Barney.  Its like, if you are a parent and you don't like it, then dont let your kid watch it.  Seriously, its not rocket science. 

[superluser]

That would be because Teletubbies is intended for children around the age of 2 or 3

Who should not be watching TV at all, says the American Academy of Pediatrics.  Children age two or younger should not watch any TV, and older toddlers shouldn't watch more than 1-2 hours of educational TV.

Its like, if you are a parent and you don't like it, then dont let your kid watch it.  Seriously, its not rocket science.

This is true, but it deprives me of the schadenfreude that I get from seeing the show get what it deserves.

[Amber Williams]

But why does it deserve it?  Because you personally deem that it is mindless in comparison to your own childhood memories?  And the deservingness is out of context.  You think it deserves to be inspected because people think it has implications of supporting homosexuality? Or that you feel homosexuality is something that shouldn't be supported and the possibility of it being so warrents banning?

I can understand someone having a desire for a show to be removed, but I'd hope that people would rather it be removed because the universe suddenly agrees that the show is meaningless and the ratings suck...rather than out of fear they think it will make their babies homo-gay.

[Zina]

That would be because Teletubbies is intended for children around the age of 2 or 3

Who should not be watching TV at all, says the American Academy of Pediatrics.  Children age two or younger should not watch any TV, and older toddlers shouldn't watch more than 1-2 hours of educational TV.

Did you actually read the article you just linked me? Because I seriously don't think you did. I think you just read the short paragraph in the middle there without read the whole article.
I want you to go, read it thoroughly, list off all the main points it makes, and then tell me why, exactly, a half-an-hour educational program containing no "bad" things whatsoever is a negative thing and should be taken off the air.

[Gareeku]

But why does it deserve it?  Because you personally deem that it is mindless in comparison to your own childhood memories?  And the deservingness is out of context.  You think it deserves to be inspected because people think it has implications of supporting homosexuality? Or that you feel homosexuality is something that shouldn't be supported and the possibility of it being so warrents banning?

I can understand someone having a desire for a show to be removed, but I'd hope that people would rather it be removed because the universe suddenly agrees that the show is meaningless and the ratings suck...rather than out of fear they think it will make their babies homo-gay.

Wow. Amber took the words right out of my...keyboard, or something...

But yet, I also don't get these personal vendettas flying around when it comes to shows like this. Hey! News flash! IT'S A KIDS SHOW. This shouldn't even be affecting you in the slightest if you don't have kids, and if you do, then as Amber said, just don't let them watch it. Take some bloody responsibilty.

All this "LOL I haetes teh teletubbies" crap just makes you look totally retarded for fretting this much over what is a show for toddlers and infants. And how can it be promoting homosexuality? If anything, if Tinky Winky really is indeed gay as many people believe, then the show is most likely promoting EQUALITY (there's also this belief going around that the one with a darker face than the others is meant to respresent black people, but meh). Its not as if 2 or 3 olds are suddenly to say "hi mummy, i'm gay!" after watching the show. That sort of thing isn't even considered until puberty/adulthood (in my personal opinion anyway).

So in short? Superluser and the Polish government are total idiots.

[Swift-Skink]

Dirt and Rocks are awesome. Me and my brother used to build cities. The demolish them. Good times...

And yeah, I don't get what the fuss is about. It's a kids show. For kids. Kid's who, I could point out, often seem at least a little gay at that age, at least with the dressing up. I remember one of my friends wearing a dress and singing Shania Twain, and homosexuality never crossed my mind. And he's not now, so I they're accusations are a nit of a far cry...

[Knight]

As long as it keeps the hypothetical little wankers from bothering me for five minutes, I don't care if they want to fuck suzy or timmy later on or why.

Why are parents so damn preoccupied with what their kids might want to do in the bedroom anyway?  Isn't that a bit odd?  I think the obvious reason parents don't want their kids to be gay is because being gay is a social disadvantage.

Remove the social disadvantage, and you remove the fear.

Also, you see them bitching about teletubbies allegedly gay agenda, but what's an orientation agenda anyway?  If you were trying to "teach" them to be straight, you might consider it appropriate to have heterosexual intercourse right in front of them, huh?  Wait, the teletubbies don't do the equivelant of that.  They just don't exhibit gender roles.  That's what scares them, as they view this as being gayish.  So does that mean we should have dad walk around in a sterotypical mechanic uniform while being dominant and patronizing to a subserviant mom?  Would that make them happy, teaching their little daughter that she'll never be as important as a man; or that their little son is a worthless shitpile if he doesn't work on cars?  But of course normal kids are straight anyway, so you don't have to teach them that, right?  It's obvious they are viewing heterosexuality as default and homosexuality as learned and deviant, thereby CREATING THE SOCIAL DISADVANTAGE.

People are so silly.  I hope their kids turn out gay just to learn em.

[Alondro]

Why? It's just a harmless tv show aimed at little kids.

Mindless, more like.

I remember old-school kids' TV, where they would spend half an hour describing the differences between different types of map projections, or some kid would wind up in an alternate dimension where he had to use his l33t sentence-diagramming skills to stop the forces of Thorzuul.

Nowadays, we have Christopher Lloyd and Gilbert Gottfried teaching kids arithmetic.  Which isn't half as bad as Teletubbies, which teaches kids nothing.  I watched a bit of it once, and it looked just like some freaky puppets watching TV and then saying `AGAIN' and watching it again.

That would be because Teletubbies is intended for children around the age of 0-3, who can barely speak, let alone form full sentences. It might seem mindless to you because you don't have the mind of a infant, but children of that age actually do respond well to repeated actions, colorful images and simple, non-threatening characters.

Feh, for INFERIOR children maybe!  By the age of two I watch watching CBS News at 6 and Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" series.  *is ze zuprior race!*  I shall repopulate ze vurld with my zuperior mutant clones.   

Seriously, it is a dumb-ass show that does nothing to start educating children as early as possible, which is important as schools these days are pretty much useless unless the child has a self-motivating mindset to learn.  I remember enough about myself as a young-un to know that I would've hated it.  I remember show like "Read All About It" and others that had learning in with an interesting story. 

The gay nonsense is just stupid.  Like a kid that young would even pick up on something like that unless it was blatantly and graphically portrayed.  They seem to have forgotten a certain time when their own people were being rounded up by nasty Germans.  Hey, it's the Polish after all!  They don't have a certain reputation for nothing!  Time for Polish jokes!  Submarine with screen doors!  Shoot the guy pushing the Polish tanks!  Throw the hand grenade back after you pull out the pin!  Wave to the one-armed Polish guy hanging from the flagpole! 

The problem is nobody knows when to just shut up about it.  And that goes for both sides.  I'd be quite happy if it were just left at homosexuals living their lives and heterosexuals living theirs, nobody bothering the other.  But each side keeps trying to 'convert' people from the other, which always causes problems. 

Evidence is mounting that homosexuality has very strong biological origins, thus it won't matter what you do; a 'straight' child is going to be straight and a 'gay' child will be gay.  There's nothing you can do about it... other than majorly brainwashing the kids from birth.   

[Knight]

Evidence is mounting that homosexuality has very strong biological origins, thus it won't matter what you do; a 'straight' child is going to be straight and a 'gay' child will be gay.  There's nothing you can do about it... other than majorly brainwashing the kids from birth.

In my very recent Psychology textbook, it says pretty much exactly that.  It doesn't even diverge to say "evidence is mounting".  It also mentions obvious gay habits in the animal kindgom... these things are really no longer opinion.

[Brunhidden]

its too easy to turn this around into sexual harrassment

1- how do they know its not a girl? they are automatically assuming the entire cast is male and that is sexist, females can be horribly deformed nightmarish TV stars too

2- they are saying 'purses are gay', and thats pretty offensive right there. i know a great many people who wear purses, some of them men who are severely attracted to women and actually find a purse helps their odds. what about handbags? messenger bags? briefcases? are they saying they're all gay too? if i start carrying a laptop and a couple books to the park with a old navy messenger bag, does that make me bisexual or something?

i find it puzzling they are both thinking way too much on this and not thinking at all on this.

Where observation is concerned, chance favors only the prepared mind.

[Kenji]

Ah, Teletubbies. I used to always make fun of you whenever someone would mention your name, some years back.
Personally, I thought the show was stupid but hey, if it's liked and doesn't do mental harm, then who are we to judge. Homosexuality based on something someone does that is usually geared towards women? (if those things even have genders to begin with...) Isn't it said that one of our most beloved presidents, as well as a certain renaissance artist that went on to become a ninja turtle, but is still hailed as one of the greats.

I mean, if I had a kid right now, I'd probably send some better cartoons their way, but if they wanted to watch Teletubbies, then what'm I gonna say. I always watched shows that were "bad for children blah blah blah".
Sides... we watched Captain Planet as childrens. It was educational in a small sense, kind of like Teletubbies is to basic baby skills I guess, and yet the main guy ran around wearing a one piece bathing suit and tall boots! Oooh, scandalous~

[RJ]

Hm, I seem to recall a forum discussion on tv not too long ago where they were talking about modern society, (esp. advertising) and its effects on children, particularly that concerning sexual issues, which have been rising. Scary stuff really.

[Knight]

I still maintain the primary problem people have with teletubbies is that they lack gender roles... and people are afraid of things that don't have gender roles.

Add in a purse, something they identify as a female gender identifier, and their head explodes.

[superluser]

You think it deserves to be inspected because people think it has implications of supporting homosexuality? Or that you feel homosexuality is something that shouldn't be supported and the possibility of it being so warrents banning?

Nah.  First, I don't think that Tinky-Winky is gay, or that any aspect of the Teletubbies promotes homosexuality, heterosexuality, or any sexual perspective.

Second, even if I did, I wouldn't have any problem with it being on the air. (Actually, I'm kind of offended that you think that I might want something taken off the air because it's gay.  Have I ever hinted that I might be homophobic?)

I'm also really not an ends justify the means person, and I don't think it's awful that it's still on.  All I said is that cancellation would give me some schadenfreude.

Did you actually read the article you just linked me? Because I seriously don't think you did. I think you just read the short paragraph in the middle there without read the whole article.

I freely admit, I read the news articles from a year or so ago, and never read the AAP report.

I want you to go, read it thoroughly, list off all the main points it makes, and then tell me why, exactly, a half-an-hour educational program containing no "bad" things whatsoever is a negative thing and should be taken off the air.

k.

What the AAP says:

TV affects children in various and sundry ways.  It takes up time which might be better doing other things like playing or spending time with friends.  It encourages a sedentary lifestyle.  Violence and sex are exceedingly common on US television; your child could see up to 8000 murders on TV by the time s/he finishes grade school.  Commercials are also bad because they encourage kids to consume whatever products are being hawked, and that often includes things like alcohol, tobacco, other drugs, junk food, and sugary cereals.  TV for kids ages two and below might be bad because it can negatively affect early brain development.

Good TV can be a force for the better, and it is linked to higher test scores.

As a parent, you should limit your child's TV viewing to 1-2 hours per day and plan it out beforehand so that your child is not just channel surfing.  You should watch with your child and discuss what's going on. This is especially true if your child might not grasp the concept that what's on TV isn't real, or that the commercials have a different agenda from the program.  If you find material objectionable, you can discuss with your child why you feel that that material is objectionable.  You can help your child understand that the purpose of commercials is to sell you things that you don't need.  You can help your child by setting a good example, and giving your child alternatives to TV.

A couple of things to note:

- Many kids' shows do encourage physical activity.  I recently had an opportunity to see the first Sesame Street, and even that had some sort of physical activity bit.
- I've heard the 8000 murders thing before.  I've also heard that it's propaganda.  I may look into it later, but not now.
- There is no tobacco advertising on US TV.  I don't know where they're getting that from.  There are sponsored events, but I doubt that the Virginia Slims Championship is going to make the kids want to try cigarettes.

Why I think the Teletubbies are bad, based on this:

First, at that age, children are still just learning about things like object permanence (~9mo) and tertiary circular reactions (24mo).  I'm not sure how TV would influence development of those concepts, but I'm sure that special effects and impossible actions can't be good for a developing mind.

Furthermore (and this is the clincher), it doesn't seem to encourage the kids to engage in the show, but rather to let the show wash over them, as if it were nothing more than a screensaver.  Characters in other shows look at the child and talk to the child.  That draws the child in, and helps the child to think about what is going on, rather than just mindlessly staring at a bunch of moving images.

I have read that some of the Teletubbies DVDs do encourage singing and dancing, which I don't remember from the show, and it might change my opinion of them.

[Zina]

It's obvious you haven't really watched the show, since all the Teletubbies shows I've watched engage quite a bit with the audience, and also contain quite a bit of physical activity. You seem to have watched one or two shows a while back, and are basing things off your memory and your already biased opinion of the show.
Once again, the intended age group for shows like Teletubbies and Boobah are usually very young children and infants, and are geared to aid in the development of the infant mind. Gentle music, colorful settings, repeated actions, watching other children play and do activities, along with simple, non-threatening characters. These are things not geared to TEACH children, but to further their development, to make it easier for them to learn. That's the general goal of shows like that. And when they do teach, they do it pretty effectively. A ball is shown, the word "ball" is repeated several times, and then the characters engage with the ball. Saying things like "The ball is red" or "the ball is round" is far too advanced for the shows intended audience.
I think the problem here is that you don't really have much of an idea of what the intended age group for Teletubbies really is, or how developed their minds should be. I'm pretty sure you're thinking that the same kids that watch Sesame Street or Diego are also watching Teletubbies, which they aren't. That age group can get out, run around, speak in full sentences and actively engage with the characters on the show. The age group for Teletubbies can barely walk or stand up.
Yes, the parents should spend time with their kids instead of letting them watch TV. But sometimes the parent simply CAN'T. And in those cases Teletubbies is a Godsend, as it's a harmless and safe program that also helps in the development of the child.
The article you linked me mostly spoke out against letting children watch "Normal" TV programs, shows that are intended for adults and contain violence, smoking, etc. Things that offer no educational value whatsoever. And in a magical world, little kids younger than 6 wont watch TV. So, until we find that magical world, why take away one of the few "safe" programs for kids that contains none of the negative and encourages every single bit of the positive?

[thegayhare]

Superluser
your inital statment definitly reflects an ends justify the means mentality.  you don't seem to care why or how redicules the reason so long as teletubbies is gon some where that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling

Polish Ombudsman Backs Off Tinky Winky Gay Probe
by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff

Posted: May 29, 2007 - 1:00 pm ET

(Warsaw) A day after she received international scorn for telling a Polish publication she had asked for a report on whether Tinky Winky and other Teletubbies are promoting homosexuality to children, the country's ombudsman for children is backing down.

Ewa Sowinska had told a popular Polish magazine said she was concerned the popular show promoted homosexuality to unsuspecting minors. (story)

Sowinska said she had asked a panel of psychologists to investigate the popular children's television series.

"I noticed that he has a purse, but I didn't realize he's a boy, Sowinska told the weekly "Wprost". The interview had been vetted and approved by her office before it was published.

"At first I thought that must be a bother for him. Later I learned that there could be some hidden homosexual undertones," she told the publication

Her remarks were immediately likened to those several years ago of the late US evangelist Jerry Falwell who accused Tinky Winky of being gay because he carried a purse.

Sowinska's remarks were picked up by newspapers around the world sparking ridicule.

Tuesday she was backpedaling.

Sowinska's spokesperson Wieslawa Lipinska told The Associated Press that Sowinska "hasn't asked and won't ask" psychologists to investigate whether "Teletubbies" promote homosexuality.

"They are fictional characters, they have nothing to do with reality, and the bag and scissors and other props the fictional characters use are there to create a fictional world that speaks to children," Lipinska said. "We are not going to deal with this issue any more."

But Sowinska's initial interview continues to raise concerns among Polish gays where it is seen as the latest in a series of anti-gay moves by the government.

[superluser]

Superluser
your inital statment definitly reflects an ends justify the means mentality.  you don't seem to care why or how redicules the reason so long as teletubbies is gon some where that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling

Sigh.  I just made a simple, stupid, offhand comment.  I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

It's obvious you haven't really watched the show, since all the Teletubbies shows I've watched engage quite a bit with the audience, and also contain quite a bit of physical activity. You seem to have watched one or two shows a while back, and are basing things off your memory and your already biased opinion of the show.

You're probably right.  I saw it once to figure out why everyone was so concerned that some British TV show was coming over here.  This was way before I heard about the Falwell crap.  I saw it, thought it was stupid, and since I wasn't in the target demographic, I never watched it again.

These are things not geared to TEACH children, but to further their development, to make it easier for them to learn. That's the general goal of shows like that. And when they do teach, they do it pretty effectively. A ball is shown, the word "ball" is repeated several times, and then the characters engage with the ball. Saying things like "The ball is red" or "the ball is round" is far too advanced for the shows intended audience.

I understand that they're not trying to teach.  I also understand that anything more than one word (or possibly verb-object phrases like ``want that'') is way too complex for this age group.  Further, I understand that Sesame Street and most of the other kids' TV shows are for kids older than the Teletubbies' audience.

But the question that I have is whether they invite the kids to think about/actively observe the action.  Do they show the ball to each other, or to the audience?

Bah.  I'll have to catch an episode and see if my initial assessment was right.