2014/07/28 - [DMFA #1504] Dark Tidings

[Tapewolf]

So, Nitemyst has been told that he'll die if he goes looking for Merlitz - which makes logical sense, since if they've been used as patsies for a hit, whoever ordered it is going to be displeased that they failed - but he's going ahead with it anyway.

Sacrificing himself for Merlitz is one thing, and could be considered quite noble.  But not telling the others that he's bringing them along on what has been preordained as a suicide mission?  That seems a bit harsh, even for adventurers of the kill-first-ask-later type.

[ZacAttac21]

So, Nitemyst has been told that he'll die if he goes looking for Merlitz - which makes logical sense, since if they've been used as patsies for a hit, whoever ordered it is going to be displeased that they failed - but he's going ahead with it anyway.

Sacrificing himself for Merlitz is one thing, and could be considered quite noble.  But not telling the others that he's bringing them along on what has been preordained as a suicide mission?  That seems a bit harsh, even for adventurers of the kill-first-ask-later type.

I took it to mean that Nite would die, but not necessarily the others.

[AzureEdge]

So, Nitemyst has been told that he'll die if he goes looking for Merlitz - which makes logical sense, since if they've been used as patsies for a hit, whoever ordered it is going to be displeased that they failed - but he's going ahead with it anyway.

Sacrificing himself for Merlitz is one thing, and could be considered quite noble.  But not telling the others that he's bringing them along on what has been preordained as a suicide mission?  That seems a bit harsh, even for adventurers of the kill-first-ask-later type.

I took it to mean that Nite would die, but not necessarily the others.

Pretty much what I took it as as well. I do wonder though what has happened to Merlitz and Aliyka anyway. Its been forever since we have seen them. When was the last time we saw them anyway? Last I can remember is Merlitz hoping Aaryana or whatever her name is to be on fire.

[Chairtastic]

We last saw them falling from a great height in one of the questions from the readers.  :v  Can't remember the specific one, though.

Also Nitemyste; deciding to die for the sake of someone else is noble.  Deciding to die in what could very well be a serious fight where your magic and experience is needed for everyone else to live, and preventing them from planning around you, especially when Skirmish gets so emotional when you guys are hurt?  That's bad leadership.

You silly silly bishounen you.

[Tuyu]

Also Nitemyste; deciding to die for the sake of someone else is noble.  Deciding to die in what could very well be a serious fight where your magic and experience is needed for everyone else to live, and preventing them from planning around you, especially when Skirmish gets so emotional when you guys are hurt?  That's bad leadership.

Skirmish getting emotional could be the reason he's keeping it to himself. He could add new members to the group and start grooming his replacement without telling them that bit.

[Aisha deCabre]

I have to say (and I may be reiterating a point in the comic, though I'm too lazy to archive-dive and find out x3), Merlitz must have been a VERY important person in the group, or at least to Nitemyst.  One would think that adventurers, even those who have teamed up for years, could accept a bit more easily that one of their own could die or disappear.  Now Nite is risking his life to solve this mystery, at the knowing word of a Phoenix Oracle.

That or he's stubborn and hates things to be unresolved.  I can understand that, myself, really.

[Hariman]

I have to say (and I may be reiterating a point in the comic, though I'm too lazy to archive-dive and find out x3), Merlitz must have been a VERY important person in the group, or at least to Nitemyst.  One would think that adventurers, even those who have teamed up for years, could accept a bit more easily that one of their own could die or disappear.  Now Nite is risking his life to solve this mystery, at the knowing word of a Phoenix Oracle.

That or he's stubborn and hates things to be unresolved.  I can understand that, myself, really.

They adventured together, and Merlitz was only booted from the group because one of the other members of the group wanted to bring her boyfriend into the group, which would have been too many people if Merlitz had stayed.

Nitemist and the others came back for Merlitz, though they arrived after Merlitz had left lost lake.

I think they were the kind of friends forged in combat, blood, pain, and likely saving each other's lives repeatedly.

AKA: The kind you'd give your life for, if necessary.

[Brunhidden]

did he and merl just go that far back that this is that important to him? if so, id kind of want to hear the story of our robe-wearing mage kitty and how he endeared himself to headband-kitty that strongly

the only other real setup would be instead of merlitz being that critical personally, its a combined pride as an adventurer and spite at being denied. carrying on because you know something big and horrifying is going on is part of the adventurer credo, chance of death is what you signed on for. however when it is guaranteed that you will die without even finding out what happened to a friend, assurance that you likely wont even make a noticeable dent in said big and horrifying, thats some deep doodie to walk through willingly on top of leading the rest of your party likely to THEIR doom without warning them first

[Tuyu]

Nitemist and the others came back for Merlitz, though they arrived after Merlitz had left lost lake.

They didn't exactly "come back". They were on the way to someplace else, had a low priority assignment checking for 'cubi at Lost Lake, and used that as an excuse to say hi.

[Tapewolf]

Interestingly, if we flip the Oracle's prophecy around, she has predicted that Nitemyst will die naturally if he lets Merlitz go - which essentially means that he's foretold to win every battle for the rest of his adventuring career. 

[Titanium Dragon]

This goes beyond Merlitz. Someone went to EXTREMELY GREAT LENGTHS to do this - not only make Merlitz vanish, but setting someone else up for the fall, and murdering a phoenix oracle to do it. That means someone really bad is up to something really bad, and is trying to get people out of the way. Definitely worth getting in front of.

So yeah, Merlitz is important... but someone also either vanished or murdered him, and tried to pin it on someone else, via incredibly difficult means. Something is very wrong here, and, well, we all know an adventure hook when we see one, right?

Besides, he'll get to reroll a new character. 

Interestingly, if we flip the Oracle's prophecy around, she has predicted that Nitemyst will die naturally if he lets Merlitz go - which essentially means that he's foretold to win every battle for the rest of his adventuring career.

No, only survive. Winning implies you achieve your objective; Dan lost his first real fight, but lived. Also, that's assuming it wasn't an oversimplification. Or that someone didn't cast an age spell on him and kill him that way.

[Tapewolf]

No, only survive. Winning implies you achieve your objective; Dan lost his first real fight, but lived. Also, that's assuming it wasn't an oversimplification. Or that someone didn't cast an age spell on him and kill him that way.

True.  I suppose it's also possible that he could be maimed in his next fight and forced to retire.

[Brunhidden]

Interestingly, if we flip the Oracle's prophecy around, she has predicted that Nitemyst will die naturally if he lets Merlitz go - which essentially means that he's foretold to win every battle for the rest of his adventuring career. 

its basically the immortality of the norse gods and some hindu legends- if you know you will die by X then by golly that means A-W can be laughed at with all the impunity you can muster

[Tuyu]

Interestingly, if we flip the Oracle's prophecy around, she has predicted that Nitemyst will die naturally if he lets Merlitz go - which essentially means that he's foretold to win every battle for the rest of his adventuring career. 

its basically the immortality of the norse gods and some hindu legends- if you know you will die by X then by golly that means A-W can be laughed at with all the impunity you can muster

Unless she was giving examples of "any path you take". I'd hate to think that Nightmyste only has two possible paths in life from this point forward.

So, "You can have the rest of your life, whatever that may be, or you can look for Aliyka. Either way, you're going to die without finding your answer."

[Hariman]

Interestingly, if we flip the Oracle's prophecy around, she has predicted that Nitemyst will die naturally if he lets Merlitz go - which essentially means that he's foretold to win every battle for the rest of his adventuring career. 

its basically the immortality of the norse gods and some hindu legends- if you know you will die by X then by golly that means A-W can be laughed at with all the impunity you can muster

Unless she was giving examples of "any path you take". I'd hate to think that Nightmyste only has two possible paths in life from this point forward.

So, "You can have the rest of your life, whatever that may be, or you can look for Aliyka. Either way, you're going to die without finding your answer."

But only HE is going to die, according to that wording. After he's dead, someone else will find the answer. And if he doesn't go, nobody will know for a long time, and it might also condemn Abel and Wildy in the process.

Because Wildy staked her honor on Abel no having killed Merlitz, and Nitemyste is the only one who will have the chance to lead someone to the truth.

[Tapewolf]

But only HE is going to die, according to that wording.

That's only implied by omission, we don't actually know one way or the other.
The sheer power of the adversaries involved makes me believe that whoever would kill Nitemyst (be it Destania or Hizell's gang) could and would chew up the entire party just as easily as him alone.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

But only HE is going to die, according to that wording.

That's only implied by omission, we don't actually know one way or the other.
The sheer power of the adversaries involved makes me believe that whoever would kill Nitemyst (be it Destania or Hizell's gang) could and would chew up the entire party just as easily as him alone.

You'd think. I'm not so sure - Adventurers might be standing toe-to-toe with demons purely by feeding them enough bodies to make them unable to move, then moving in and killing them while they're sleeping off the meal, but it really doesn't sound like the sort of approach that Ambaaargh had in mind when she designed the scenario. From what she's said so far, I'd think that Adventurers really _do_ have enough skill and power to stand up, even if it takes a healthy dose of luck for them to get out ahead.

[Tapewolf]

You'd think. I'm not so sure - Adventurers might be standing toe-to-toe with demons purely by feeding them enough bodies to make them unable to move, then moving in and killing them while they're sleeping off the meal, but it really doesn't sound like the sort of approach that Ambaaargh had in mind when she designed the scenario. From what she's said so far, I'd think that Adventurers really _do_ have enough skill and power to stand up, even if it takes a healthy dose of luck for them to get out ahead.

I'd agree for a normal foe, but I think this is a different ballpark. Normal foes don't block off the Oracle's sight like this for one, yet Destania seems to be wielding that power just to settle a petty grudge.  For that matter, she is at least twice the typical 'cubi maximum lifespan, and may be twice as powerful as typical 'Cubi to go with it.  And in the other corner, we have Hizell, who is nearly Fae-powerful.  I'm not sure the usual adventurer training prepares you for battling foes of this magnitude.

[Hariman]

You'd think. I'm not so sure - Adventurers might be standing toe-to-toe with demons purely by feeding them enough bodies to make them unable to move, then moving in and killing them while they're sleeping off the meal, but it really doesn't sound like the sort of approach that Ambaaargh had in mind when she designed the scenario. From what she's said so far, I'd think that Adventurers really _do_ have enough skill and power to stand up, even if it takes a healthy dose of luck for them to get out ahead.

I'd agree for a normal foe, but I think this is a different ballpark. Normal foes don't block off the Oracle's sight like this for one, yet Destania seems to be wielding that power just to settle a petty grudge.  For that matter, she is at least twice the typical 'cubi maximum lifespan, and may be twice as powerful as typical 'Cubi to go with it.  And in the other corner, we have Hizell, who is nearly Fae-powerful.  I'm not sure the usual adventurer training prepares you for battling foes of this magnitude.

Oh, it's true that Nitemyste is meddling in the affairs of Dragons (who think people like him are crunchy, and good with ketchup), Fae, who are laws unto themselves and incredibly powerful, and others who could swat him and his friends like a bug.

But another factor is that the people who know about Merlitz might not be the "swat any who comes looking" type. They might also be the "swat that guy who surprised me, and then realize I made a mistake" type. Or Nitemyste might get killed by an enemy agent, and his friends might get rescued by someone else.

Or at least not killed.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

You'd think. I'm not so sure - Adventurers might be standing toe-to-toe with demons purely by feeding them enough bodies to make them unable to move, then moving in and killing them while they're sleeping off the meal, but it really doesn't sound like the sort of approach that Ambaaargh had in mind when she designed the scenario. From what she's said so far, I'd think that Adventurers really _do_ have enough skill and power to stand up, even if it takes a healthy dose of luck for them to get out ahead.

I'd agree for a normal foe, but I think this is a different ballpark. Normal foes don't block off the Oracle's sight like this for one, yet Destania seems to be wielding that power just to settle a petty grudge.  For that matter, she is at least twice the typical 'cubi maximum lifespan, and may be twice as powerful as typical 'Cubi to go with it.  And in the other corner, we have Hizell, who is nearly Fae-powerful.  I'm not sure the usual adventurer training prepares you for battling foes of this magnitude.

I believe my thought was not that Nitemyste and his crew are in that ballpark of power - they're not. They may be more powerful than your average adventurers, to the point of being notable, but they're still not in that same magnitude of power. My thought was, the prediction suggests that things aren't going to be as clear-cut as you might expect.


And, of course, if the players really were that powerful, we'd be seeing a Xanadu Gambit. Which we're not - they're playing it cool, and keeping under the level of notice, and sneaking about, which suggests that it's still highly likely that they're not going to win.

Also, I draw attention to "seems to be wielding that power to settle a petty grudge"; nothing we've seen rules out that the Nitemyste/Merlitz  sidequest is just as important as the main quest, or that Destania isn't using one stone to hit two or more birds.

[Naldru]

Everything that the Oracles say has to be taken with caution (especially given past actions by Amber).  For example, if he dies on the search, it could be by falling off a cliff or having a heart attack.  If he dies of old age because he doesn't go on the quest, it could be due to being exposed to a toxin that causes rapid aging.  (Like the Star Trek episode The Deadly Years.)  It could be a metaphorical death, such as that of Destania or "dying of embarrassment".

[ChaosMageX]

I can't be the only one who has thought for at least a moment that there might have been something more between Merlitz and Nitemyste than just a good friendship.  At the very least, maybe it was just something Nitemyste didn't realize until after kicking Merlitz out of their adventuring group.

[Merlin]

I can't be the only one who has thought for at least a moment that there might have been something more between Merlitz and Nitemyste than just a good friendship.  At the very least, maybe it was just something Nitemyste didn't realize until after kicking Merlitz out of their adventuring group.

I HEARD SHIPPING GOING ON IN THIS THREAD

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I HEARD SHIPPING GOING ON IN THIS THREAD

... You seem very easy to invoke, Merlin.