[Art] Keaton the Black Jackal: Commission Preview~ (21/10/09)

[Sunblink]

Nice one, Keats, but I have a few nit-picks. The gun looks very flat. Though, considering how you don't draw guns often, it looks good.

Thank you As for the gun, I blame the angle. It's viewed straightforwardly, so there aren't many dynamics to its appearance.

Also, why no hair? I guess there is a reason, though. And I have a guess about the background, but I won't say anything here until you reveal the truth.

I didn't add the hair so that way the wolf was more eponymous - so he resembled more of an actual wolf instead of a sexy anthromorph. It's really more of a silly stylistic choice on my part.

[Mao]

Beyond the gun looking flat, something isn't right about that handle.  I own a few pistols and I've never had all of my fingers extended the same length.  Normally the bottom three are curled in more with the trigger finger slightly further out (unless I'm firing).  Otherwise, it looks really cool.  I get the feeling that it's going to look pretty wicked when it's all done up. 

[Ren Gaulen]

Nice one, Keats, but I have a few nit-picks. The gun looks very flat. Though, considering how you don't draw guns often, it looks good.

Thank you As for the gun, I blame the angle. It's viewed straightforwardly, so there aren't many dynamics to its appearance.

I guess it will stop looking 2-D when you colour and shade it, anyway.

[Tapewolf]

The gun looks very flat. Though, considering how you don't draw guns often, it looks good.

That can probably be fudged through shading.

Also, why no hair? I guess there is a reason, though.

Actually, I never noticed the hair.  That said, I think hair is probably not a requirement for this piece since it's symbolic rather than an illustration and the target audience is the general public, rather than someone who's into anthropomorphic animals per se.

And I have a guess about the background, but I won't say anything here until you reveal the truth.

Let's just say it's for the album cover.

[Sunblink]

Beyond the gun looking flat, something isn't right about that handle.  I own a few pistols and I've never had all of my fingers extended the same length.  Normally the bottom three are curled in more with the trigger finger slightly further out (unless I'm firing).  Otherwise, it looks really cool.  I get the feeling that it's going to look pretty wicked when it's all done up. 

Hmm. I liked the way the hand looked, but I think it's an easy fix. I'll take care of that as soon as I get home. I don't think I need to fix the trigger finger since it'll look comparatively longer when I shorten the other fingers, but right now I'm spouting a lot of technobabble. XD Thank you for the advice, Mowser. I'll post the updated version when it's done.

[Lysander]

I really like his coat.   

[Tapewolf]

I really like his coat.   

I had to model that.  Keaton is now one of the only people alive to have seen me in a trenchcoat 

[WhiteFox]

The hand looks flat 'cause the outside edge (the side with the pinkey) doesn't taper out from the wrist, and the hand doesn't look like it's really gripping the gun. The crook of the thumb is lower then that, so it looks like it's being gripped lightly (As a note, the back of the hand should be longer to accommodate this). You'd also get more impression of force behind the grip if the fingers were shorter, clenched-fist.

Also, the forearm does have muscle. It starts at the elbow and tapers halfway to the wrist (After that halfway point, most people only have tendon and bone, and very little muscle). I usually draw the wrist at two thirds the width of the forearm, but it can vary.

I love the trenchcoat, it has a great feel to it, and that's a very good face for the direction it's facing.

[Sunblink]

The hand looks flat 'cause the outside edge (the side with the pinkey) doesn't taper out from the wrist, and the hand doesn't look like it's really gripping the gun. The crook of the thumb is lower then that, so it looks like it's being gripped lightly (As a note, the back of the hand should be longer to accommodate this). You'd also get more impression of force behind the grip if the fingers were shorter, clenched-fist.

Also, the forearm does have muscle. It starts at the elbow and tapers halfway to the wrist (After that halfway point, most people only have tendon and bone, and very little muscle). I usually draw the wrist at two thirds the width of the forearm, but it can vary.

I love the trenchcoat, it has a great feel to it, and that's a very good face for the direction it's facing.

The hand in general is a bit of a tougher fix, since I'm not sure how to elongate the features of the hand without disturbing a great deal of the rest of the picture. However, I can adjust the fingers so they look like they're clenching, and add muscle mass onto the forearm to emulate that tapering effect you mentioned. Also, I can erase the joint of the thumb and adjust it to match the angle you suggested.

Thank you for the compliments and the advice, by the way.

I really like his coat.  

Thank you very much! I like his coat too.

[WhiteFox]

The hand in general is a bit of a tougher fix, since I'm not sure how to elongate the features of the hand without disturbing a great deal of the rest of the picture. However, I can adjust the fingers so they look like they're clenching, and add muscle mass onto the forearm to emulate that tapering effect you mentioned. Also, I can erase the joint of the thumb and adjust it to match the angle you suggested.

Thank you for the compliments and the advice, by the way.

I can think of a very quick fix for the hand. Move the knuckles farther up. this way, you shorten the fingers, the thumb is placed farther back on the hand overall, and the back of the hand is shorter.

And, your welcome for the advice and compliments. I love getting into this sort of discussion.

[Sunblink]

I can think of a very quick fix for the hand. Move the knuckles farther up. this way, you shorten the fingers, the thumb is placed farther back on the hand overall, and the back of the hand is shorter.

And, your welcome for the advice and compliments. I love getting into this sort of discussion.

!

You know, Fox... I like how you think I'll give that a try. I just opened Photoshop. I'll probably post up two revisions of the Wolf's hand when I get the chance, for comparing and approval.

I also enjoy this type of discussion.

[Sunblink]

Hmm, and here are the revisions I promised.

CLICK HERE

I took all the suggestions into account, and hopefully this has resolved all of the issues. I added some bulk to the forearm and shortened the fingers, not to mention I moved the knuckles down the hand.

If this looks right, then I'll start the coloring process.

[Tapewolf]

Looks good to me, though you might want to wait for some of the more artistically-skilled members to comment first.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... you know, it occurs to me that the grip of the hand on the pistol implies that the trigger has been pulled already.

Have you considered a wisp of smoke rising from the top of the barrel?

[Tapewolf]

... you know, it occurs to me that the grip of the hand on the pistol implies that the trigger has been pulled already.
Have you considered a wisp of smoke rising from the top of the barrel?

Good suggestion.  He has in fact fired the gun, multiple times.  I imagine the smoke would be something to add in as a colouring effect.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Good suggestion.  He has in fact fired the gun, multiple times.  I imagine the smoke would be something to add in as a colouring effect.

I thought so, but I'm no guru in art, so I could well be entirely wrong on that, and I didn't want to be telling Keats what to do.

One of my guiding principles is not telling people who know what they're doing how to do it. ;-]

[rt]

I thought the gun looked rather nice, especially since i've never seen you draw one before. You can see all the 'levels' of the guns surface, there is some fancy detailing. And well it looks like a real gun.

[WhiteFox]

One more note about the hand holding the gun: Hands usually have a little mass on the outside (pinky side) for the heel of the hand. Three fingered hands usually end up losing this. Really, draw a line from between your 3rd and 4th knuckle straight back to your wrist, and it lines up with the edge of your arm.

[Sunblink]

HOLY SHIT IT'S BEEN SUCH A LONG TIME. Never again will I let this topic disappear off the face of the earth.

Actually, while I promised everyone in my DeviantArt journal that I would have three commissions completed by Christmas, I have something a little different than the usual update prepared. I'll still update with the commissions, but here's a little something as a Christmas goodie.

A Very Special Christmas Collaboration by Ren Gaulen and Keaton

Slightly NSFW for beefcake and speedos

Time Taken:
*Inking: 3 days of laziness
*Coloring: 2 days
Currently Listening To: "I Play Dead," by Demon Hunter

This is, as the title above says, a collaboration. Between me and my good friend Ren Gaulen. He drew the picture; I inked it and colored it. He did a marvelous job on Siegfried's anatomy. Ren can draw bodies a lot better than I can.

I'm really satisfied with how this picture turned out, all-around, so I'm definitely going to do more collaborations in the future.

To those who are curious: yes, that's a new inking style that I'm using. It utilizes tapered lines. If people like it, then I'll implement it in future pictures.

[Ren Gaulen]

This pic, is the best pic ever. Keaton, you are absolutely, positively awesome. In fact, you are a winrar! I love what you did with my sketch. That's an exquisite work, and while my anatomy may be better than yours, my digital colouring and inking skills are nowhere near as good as yours. You simply rock. And I am definitely looking forward to new collaborations with you.    

[Tapewolf]

To paraphrase what I said on FA, I think this is a good collaboration as it improves over Ren's inking and shading skills while still retaining the character of his lineart.

On the negative/critique side, I have to admit that the skin seems over-highlighted to me.  This would work nicely for a wet human or maybe some kind of lizard, and it would be awesome for armour or similar textures... But it doesn't look so good on a feline.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to do this myself, but it doesn't look to me like he's covered in fur.

[Sunblink]

This pic, is the best pic ever. Keaton, you are absolutely, positively awesome. In fact, you are a winrar! I love what you did with my sketch. That's an exquisite work, and while my anatomy may be better than yours, my digital colouring and inking skills are nowhere near as good as yours. You simply rock. And I am definitely looking forward to new collaborations with you.    

: Thank you so much, Ren I'm still so glad the results appealed to you. This was a hell of a lot of fun to do, so I'd love to do another commission with you.

I'm still in shock that you never received any formal education (art classes) in terms of drawing anatomy. Your anatomy is great. Thank you so much for all of the praise and the support.

To paraphrase what I said on FA, I think this is a good collaboration as it improves over Ren's inking and shading skills while still retaining the character of his lineart.

On the negative/critique side, I have to admit that the skin seems over-highlighted to me.  This would work nicely for a wet human or maybe some kind of lizard, and it would be awesome for armour or similar textures... But it doesn't look so good on a feline.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to do this myself, but it doesn't look to me like he's covered in fur.

Thanks for the comment, dude. Actually, I do agree with you about the highlights. : Which is why I replaced my earlier link with a (hopefully) improved version a few minutes before this post. It should look a lot better now.

I think the main problem with the highlights is that Siegfried isn't wearing much clothing. With Cogidubnus's commission and Azrael, they were both wearing clothes, so I could easily add highlights without making their skin/fur look too polished. Also, I was self-conscious about Siegfried looking too flat without the highlights, so I went a little apeshit.

[Tapewolf]

Thanks for the comment, dude. Actually, I do agree with you about the highlights. : Which is why I replaced my earlier link with a (hopefully) improved version a few minutes before this post. It should look a lot better now.

Yes, that's much better.  With the legs there is still some room for improvement, but it does look a lot better.
There is still an issue that the fur looks too smooth.  Paradoxically, I think that's a result of your improved inking.  With Ren's normal style the edges are somewhat rough and scratchy, which actually improves the 'fur' effect.  What you might want to try in future is roughing up the outlines.  I've done this myself in Project Future once or twice.

Here's an example:
http://www.project-future.org/strip.php?strip=10
...if you look at the bottom-left panel, the hand was originally smooth and human-looking.  From a distance it was okay, but as a closeup it was a problem because it looked like he'd been shaved bald or something.  I deliberately messed up the outline.  Truth be told I think I overdid it there, but it does look somewhat fuzzy.  Actually, this may have been my first attempt at manually fluffing it.

Now consider Josh in the second panel of this strip:
http://www.project-future.org/strip.php?strip=6
...That I think was designed-in rather than an artifact of Ren's inking or digital modification, but you've got the little tufts and edges all down his arms which reinforces the fur effect.

With Cogidubnus's commission and Azrael, they were both wearing clothes, so I could easily add highlights without making their skin/fur look too polished.

Heh.  Actually, I remember having this conversation about Azrael.  Originally it looked like he was wearing PVC trousers or something 

[Sunblink]

[insert Tape's quote/advice here]

Ironically, Ren had originally added the fuzzy effects to Siegfried's tail in the lineart, but I stupidly decided to cut through a good portion of the inking process by making it look smoother, and instead of adding a bunch of jagged lines, making a singular line that accommodated the whole length of the tail.

A screenshot of the inking process. Ren's lineart is visible underneath my inking. See? Siegfried's tail is a lot fuzzier here. Major d'oh on my part.

Usually I add a lot more evidence of fur and such around the tail or prominent joints such as the shoulders, but for some reason I made it a lot smoother here. I'll be sure to rectify this in the next inking job I do. Thanks for all the advice, Tape.

[Tezkat]

Rawr.


I'm gonna disagree somewhat with Tapewolf's criticism. The thick, brush pen style strokes you used to ink him don't lend themselves very well to "slightly fuzzy" (although they're great for really fluffy fur). Given the musculature, you'd expect the fur to be fairly short and skin tight anyway, so the bold, clean lines were appropriate in this case. If you want to fuzz up an image like this, doing it at the colouring/shading stage would probably work better than messing with the lineart (although you could get away with adding a tuft or two at spots like the elbow).


Other comments... A portion of his tail appears missing. From the angle where it disappears behind the leg, you'd expect to see a small part of it curving up between his thighs.

[King Of Hearts]

Ive always felt that one should put large allowances for fuzz when inking, small jagged lines mostly end up looking messy. The problem with that is that sometimes the chara ends up looking too fuzzy. To that end I just usually go with smooth lines if the character is a shorthair variety with only a little fuzz on interjecting or bending body parts.

One of my biggest hurts when inking.

as for the tail, It could be just bent right behind the leg... granted it does look a wee awkward at first glance.

[Janus Whitefurr]

The speedos need to be more pink.

*flees, leaving running gag laughing behind him*

[Ren Gaulen]

The speedos need to be more pink.

*flees, leaving running gag laughing behind him*

PIIIIIIIINK!!!!!

[Gabi]

Nice work, both of you! It's strange to look at a picture of an anthropomorphic animal in underwear and notice how well drawn it is, rather than just thinking "it's an anthropomorphic animal in underwear".

[WhiteFox]

Well, the lack of fuzzy doesn't bother me. If you look at most jungle cats, their fur is pretty sleek. Best suggestion I could come up with there are highlights that imply a fibrous surface (similar to hair).

The inking looks sweet, by the way.

The gradient shading on his face, abdomen, and thigh, make him look like he's lit from underneath. Which, I dunno, if he's on stage or something might actually make sense.

Linear gradients make the surfaces they're on look really flat, and its noticeable on the biceps and thigh.

The pic is truly awesome. At this rate, I may end up Gay For Siggy.