05/27/2011 [DMFA #1222] - The More You Know

[RandomMetaphysics]

Very informative. That last panel has me in stitches
Great work as always Amber

[CoyoteCaliente]

So by having that kid, there's this reverse-cubi-engineering going on?

Cool. Sooo does the Convert get the normal life of a cubi? Also, if the kid is killed (sad day), does the Convert die or something?

/nerd-rage

[Viking ZX]

OK, so step one on my to-do list: find a cubi to have a kid with...

[Madd the Sane]

Well, that explains a lot 

[Jasonrevall]

So it's like having an SCV and no resources after all your buildings are destroyed? Cool.

Thanks for the info, it's nice to get to understand how more of the world works

[nevwyn]

Awww and here I was all set to start beating people with my Cubi stick to convert them to Clan Awesome for nickles. I even have a booth ready to go that had a little sign for me to switch when I was there that said the cubi is in.  

[CoyoteCaliente]

I would have paid nickels to be cubi.

[AmberCross]

And the first thing I think upon reading this is that it is another whack to Tapewolf's furrae stories. Poor Ashley never had a kid after all.

[Maark30]

And the first thing I think upon reading this is that it is another whack to Tapewolf's furrae stories. Poor Ashley never had a kid after all.

You sure about that are ya??? 

[AmberCross]

While you have a fair point, Ashley would have had to have a child with someone in that clan in order for the conversion to work if Tape is still trying to follow Amber's rules. Regardless, it is a new piece of interesting information. ^.^

[VAE]

And the first thing I think upon reading this is that it is another whack to Tapewolf's furrae stories. Poor Ashley never had a kid after all.

Well, this is the normal way to do it.. but remember that Daryil has done some crazy things before, never mind being a special not-quite-leader at the time. I guess it is the reason why it took a ton of effort.

You sure about that are ya???  

This, too - the fact it isn't *stated* doesn't mean it didn't happen - after all no need to go to procedural details.



As a related note this has interesting implications for my character as well.  

[e_voyager]

too bad that as far as we know none of Fa'lina's children survived that war in a sealed off in another dimension or so forth, sighs

[Tapewolf]

Interesting.  So you probably can't go Demon -> 'Cubi since the child is highly unlikely to be 'Cubi.

[ANTIcarrot]

Would cloning work? Or any number of other IVF treatments? Sure the magical versions are ineffective, but this world is getting access to a lot of new technology. It's only a matter of time before this part of medicine is looked at.

And Fa'Lina has all the time in the world.

[Tapewolf]

Would cloning work? Or any number of other IVF treatments? Sure the magical versions are ineffective, but this world is getting access to a lot of new technology. It's only a matter of time before this part of medicine is looked at.

IIRC Tri-wings are more magic than biology, so that approach is unlikely to work.  Fa'Lina might not have any usable DNA material to clone from, and I'm not convinced you can clone 'Cubi anyway.

Maybe it's just me, but I think the point Fluffy is trying to make is that this is a problem which has not been solved in 100'000 years...

[MT Hazard]

Just thinking, according to the info in this strip if Dest wanted to keep her family together she could 'cubify' her husband, not sure if it would work with Alexsi though.

[LordViking]

That explains a few things. And don't worry Amber, I think the chart is very clear together with the explanation.

There are some other things I wonder now though. Is the ritual used always the same?
Clan Seme was used as an example, which I think is a reference to Abel's Story, and that was a ubi from Clan A to Clan B conversion.
The Clan Leader page for Taun mentions she has a stepson that was converted into a cubi, making me think from the wording it was a being/mythos/other creature to cubi conversion.
I imagine that switching clans would take less trouble as one 'simply' has to take the connection from one Clan Leader (that might no longer exist) and link it to the new Clan Leader. While converting a being or other creature to a cubi means the being/creature gets infused with magic which he/she might not have had before, wings and head wings have to be added and a link has to be made and connected with the Clan Leader, overall sounding as a more complicated process.

So by having that kid, there's this reverse-cubi-engineering going on?

Cool. Sooo does the Convert get the normal life of a cubi? Also, if the kid is killed (sad day), does the Convert die or something?

/nerd-rage

Since the parent that got converted is from that point on considered part of the clan, including a link to the clan leader, I don't think said parent will loose power or his/her life when the child dies. Though seeing how this is magic who knows for sure how closely they are linked.

Just thinking, according to the info in this strip if Dest wanted to keep her family together she could 'cubify' her husband, not sure if it would work with Alexsi though.

That is an interesting point. Edward could be converted because of Dan being his and Destania's cubi son (though possibly the child needs to have awakened as a cubi first for this to work and Dan only recently grew his headwings and only more recently started tapping into his magic and getting connected with his Clan Leader) but even though he shares a bloodline with Alexsi it might not work since he is only a converted Cubi himself.

[e_voyager]

there are many things i would like to see but cannon time travel in DMFA is not one of them. so as much as i would like to see Fa'lina rebuild her clan via magic , science (sans time travel) , or some fluke of luck / biology (of my grandfather was of your clan but i was born or my mothers clan kind and now i want to be of yours kind of thing happening) i don't see it happening

still lordviking you raise and interesting point

[Alondro]

*Charline disputes the claim!*  Now wait a minute!  You can't say there's no way for a clanless leader to reproduce... until you've done the proper experiments...

*Ten million deaths later*  Well whaddya know, a clanless leader really can't reproduce!  And we know this thanks to the scientific method! 

I wonder... could she murder someone, split her soul... and put a piece of the fractured soul into another person... hmmm.  Now where's that book on Horcruxes...  *millions more deaths follow... all in the name of 'science'...* 

[Grey Wolf]

That's very informative. I didn't know reproducing was part of the bargain...
Does the cubi doing the transfer still lose half their power that way? And who loses it, the other parent of the child?

Maybe Fa'lina could convince Mab to help her out. Or Jyrras. I haven't given up hope that science might still be of aid to the leader of the Hope Clan

[nevwyn]

Well the real question to that is, what is the measurement of Cubi power?

If said Cubi "loses" half her individual "power" but gains a child and spouse who are also Cubi the net result is more power overall, as the three of them can continue to gain/regain that expended power. But what is the amount of power needed, if the power required is half your soul power then if you have a good sized clan it would make sense to induct new Cubi as soon after Cubification as possible as half of one is a significantly lower drain on the clan then half of the soul power of a cubi that has "eaten" a thousand souls.

You could have old clans only reproducing via offspring as it would take too long to make up the loss in power, where as some one like Aniz that was fairly weak and lacks a clan could be out there boffing and converting (assuming they knew how to convert others to cubism) to a clan of thousands provided they stuck to a mandate of "you must have x many children / conversions before you are 500 years old". 

[Ghostwish]

More D&D changes. And boy-howdy, does this have implications for Zanfib.

[joshofspam]

I like Fluffy riding that star.

It was very informative. So it requires more then just magic to transform someone into a cubi. You also need a biological link.

But like mentioned before, I can't help but think that might also mean brothers and sisters might be able to use the link to change fellow siblings who are not cubi. I guess it would matter how much a biological similarity the link needed .

Is Fluffy going to turn that star around and use a star kill to stop the additional speculation that crops up from this?

[Saphroneth]

Regarding the way that in e.g. Project Future, Daryil seems to have the mystical Cubi Stick sometimes:

Daryil, being a metabiology prodigy, basically generates a stem cell from the victim and one from a clan member, converts them to gametes, combines them, uses that connection and then annihalates the blastocyst.

I know, I know, hand wave, but since Daryil's above and beyond normal cubi in messing with the rules of the race, it could work.
Until it's disallowed again.

[Infranscia]

Interesting...  Looks like Cubi + Clan stuff has even more to do with connections, biological or magical, than I suspected.  Converting a Cubi?  Change their existing magical clan connection by using an existing clan connection.  Making a Cubi?  You need an existing biological connection to make a magical clan connection.  Cubi becoming Tri-wing?  Those with either a biological connection or a clan connection (don't know if it needs to be specific one way or the other) become connected almost directly to that Tri-wing.

(@ Coyote) I don't think losing the biological connection being lost will de-Cubi them any more than losing the clan-leader will de-Cubi members, as the clan is already magically encoded in them.  (@ ANTIcarrot, Tapewolf) It seems to me like cloning might work, at least if done the right way; genetically, it doesn't seem too dissimilar from naturally taking a piece of DNA from the father to make a new Cubi.  (@ MT Hazard, agreeing with LordViking) If Edward were Cubi-fied, I think it might be possible to Cubi-fy Alexsi using his biological connection to her.  Might.  (@ Gray Wolf) If anyone loses a fraction of their power, I'd guess it would be Seme in the example, as she would be the one extending her influence, and even then it would only be a tiny fraction of said power.

Feel free to take my theories with a grain of salt.  This is still fan speculation based on my own observations.

*Charline disputes the claim!*  Now wait a minute!  You can't say there's no way for a clanless leader to reproduce... until you've done the proper experiments...

*Ten million deaths later*  Well whaddya know, a clanless leader really can't reproduce!  And we know this thanks to the scientific method!  

I wonder... could she murder someone, split her soul... and put a piece of the fractured soul into another person... hmmm.  Now where's that book on Horcruxes...  *millions more deaths follow... all in the name of 'science'...*  

Look at me still talking when there's Science to do
When I look out there, it makes me GLaD I'm not you
I've experiments to run
There is research to be done
On the people who are still alive~

[terrycloth]

My guess would be the person losing the power would be whoever did the ritual, and you might have more than one choice? Also that the power loss isn't something that would naturally (or at least quickly) heal since it isn't done casually. Otherwise every being parent of a cubi would get cubified to keep the kids from being traumatized. @.@

... and this is only going to make Biggs want to marry Dan even MORE.

[jeffh4]

I expect this has been brought up before, but it could be that science has not looked carefully at Fa'Lina's problem.  If Jyrras had a chance to study the energies in a cubi leader, and observe the process of cubi-fying a being, he might be able to produce it artificially.  Not to mention various in-vitro techniques to make a clone or offspring of an infertile Fa'Lina.  Who knows! He might even be able to discover what makes a clan leader special and produce a bottle of "Third Wing Juice" for $19.95 plus S&H.

Hmmm.  I wonder if any of that would destabilize things a bit?  

[VAE]

Um, for all the hypotheses about power origin here... i'm pretty sure from what i read there the power comes from the clan leader, which pretty much acts as a power generator.

[AmberCross]

So now having slept on it, I think a more relevant question to my interests is... what about the case of syblings? If you get two children (heck lets say twins even) with the same two parents and one goes cubi but the other doesn't. Could you follow the link from the one child to the other? Or heck, just even the cubi parent to the cubi-less child if you're desperate?

[LordViking]

So now having slept on it, I think a more relevant question to my interests is... what about the case of syblings? If you get two children (heck lets say twins even) with the same two parents and one goes cubi but the other doesn't. Could you follow the link from the one child to the other? Or heck, just even the cubi parent to the cubi-less child if you're desperate?

From what I understand of the cubi race and the Hybrid page on cubi that won't happen. If the twins have the same parents then either they are a cubi, or not. After all it depends on the power of the parents, not the children.
If the age difference between the two siblings is high enough it might be possible that the balance of power between the two parents has shifted, resulting in the first child being a cubi and the second one from the other parent's race, or visa versa.
But since we aren't sure what exactly determines said power we don't know if that really is possible.