RJ needs some advice!

[RJ]

  Okay, well it seems like finally I'm going to be able to get a new computer! There's just a few problems though... and one of them is that I'd like to know how I should customise the hardware for what I need (my father knows someone who could assemble the parts, ect.).

Now, you guys know I like to do art and junk. Pal was also very awesome and sent me a copy of The Sims 2, which I would like to play, but can't on this old rust-bucket. So what I need is some general advice on what parts I should look at for it. My knowledge on computer parts is rather limited, but I at least know most of the basics.

If you guys could lend a hand and offer some advice, then that'd mean so much to me. 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

RJ:

Try mentioning which country you're in, as some will presume that the States are a suitable place to get hardware from... :-)

As far as hardware goes, however, figure out your budget. Figure out what you want to do. Then go look at the thread talking about Amber's machine, and much of what you want has already been discussed there. Want me to find it for you? :-)

[bill]

Sorry, but the only thing I really know is


Celeron = Redneck

[RJ]

RJ:

Try mentioning which country you're in, as some will presume that the States are a suitable place to get hardware from... :-)

As far as hardware goes, however, figure out your budget. Figure out what you want to do. Then go look at the thread talking about Amber's machine, and much of what you want has already been discussed there. Want me to find it for you? :-)

Oh ^.^ Australia! And I think my budget would be around AU$1300.

And I didn't really notice that other thread before >.> *has tunnel vision*

*looks at the first page of the thread and asplodes*

Maybe I'm better off just buying a pre-assembled package....

[Aridas]

I guess in the end it just depends on whether you want stuff to go fast as possible or not.. Then I could probably try to go from there >.>

But maybe it would be easier for an Ari to talk to an RJ if the RJ used AIM a little more often? 

[RJ]

Llearch offered me some good advice about the processor, which I suppose is all I needed to know Anything that can let me use Photoshop CS2 is good (though, to be honest, I quite like using my plain old PS Elements 2).

[Paladin Sheppard]

Oh ^.^ Australia! And I think my budget would be around AU$1300.

And I didn't really notice that other thread before >.> *has tunnel vision*

*looks at the first page of the thread and asplodes*

Maybe I'm better off just buying a pre-assembled package....

Try to avoid that RJ most prebuilt are low grade and low quality...If you keep your monitor, keyboard, mouse, harddrive and the soundcard I sent all you should need is a motherboard, CPU, gaphics card, power supply, harddrive(if your old one isn't big enough anymore)and maybe a new case if your old one won't fit the stuff inside. Most computer stores will sell decent gear for $1300 AUD.

[RJ]

The only thing I would consider keeping with my computer is the keyboard and the sound card you sent... I'd love a flatscreen monitor, and a new mouse and that.

EDIT: I had a discussion with my dad and had a look over one of the catelogues. There's a computer shop nearby to our house near the highway, so it'd be easy to get in touch with them. Anyway, there's a package there that actually seems not too bad:

Pentium 4 HT 3.2Ghz
1GB RAM
200GB HDD
19" wide LCD
DL DVD Burner
Intel GMA 900 Graphics

Also comes with a digital media reader, stereo speakers, free upgrade to WIndows XP Media Center edition, is VOIP ready and offers 2 months free line-rental with it, and you can get an additional TV tuner for $99, though my dad is going to offer cash for the whole thing and try to beat them down in price and get the tv card for free. Any thoughts?

[Aridas]

Well, I don't think anyone here could say that wasn't very well good enough for what you want to do.. Though, you may want a good video card for a few obvious reasons...

[RJ]

Okay, I'll have to look into that then. 

[Leafar]

not too bad:

Pentium 4 HT 3.2Ghz

Intel GMA 900 Graphics

tests always showed us the major quality athlon AMD gets over the pentium intel...
besides, athlon is cheaper...funny huh?therefore we pay just to carry the name of it...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

True, but on large graphical operations the pipeline tends to get full, so with photoshop intel's still manage to hold their own, somewhat.

Which is kinda the point. :-)

[Leafar]

True, but on large graphical operations the pipeline tends to get full, so with photoshop intel's still manage to hold their own, somewhat.

Which is kinda the point. :-)

lies you heard...

http://www.cpuid.com/reviews/PentiumM/index.php
http://www.animationartist.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=38371-1

Athlon all the way! :p

[Aridas]

Athlon all the way... Until like... recently. Oh well.

[Gabi]

Well, RJ, your package is way better than everything I have. I'm sure you won't find it lacking in anything you need, provided it works.

[RJ]

It's not really like I'm going to be doing high-end graphic stuff in photoshop, so I'm pretty sure this package will go okay. When I go over to the shop later I'll talk to the guy about it. But thanks guys.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Leafar, those are both mostly talking about mobile chips, comparing to Athlon mobile variants. And yes, I'll admit that on mobile stuff, Intel mostly beats Athlon, much as I'd prefer it otherwise.

As the last paragraph of the second link shows on page 4, "buy an athlon", in short. :-)

But RJ has it right - go in and talk to the guy there...

[Rowne]

And never forget the importance of RAM!

Anyway, I don't really have anything to add because everyone has covered the most basic points.  Still, I do have one thing that I might add.  If one likes the Sims and one's computer can't run the Sims, then there's always Kudos, which is an indie game that I wholeheartedly approve of which plays like the Sims.

And it has a fully-featured trial too so you don't have to buy it without knowing what it's like.

[Leafar]

But RJ has it right -

she is ALWAYS right!!!!!! :p!

[Arcalane]

And never forget the importance of RAM!

Anyway, I don't really have anything to add because everyone has covered the most basic points.  Still, I do have one thing that I might add.  If one likes the Sims and one's computer can't run the Sims, then there's always Kudos, which is an indie game that I wholeheartedly approve of which plays like the Sims.

And it has a fully-featured trial too so you don't have to buy it without knowing what it's like.

1gb is enough for most things. I have 2gb myself, and one or two of my Planetside Clanmates have 4gb... 

[Rowne]

I do wonder about these 4GiB people, what do they do with it?

Here's how I've found progression to be through my upgrades:

512MeB ~ Most MMOs and some single-player games are a pain in the arse with near ten minute loading times.

1GiB ~ The improvement was insane, the loading times improved exponentially.

2GiB ~ Minor increase on loading times, I'm a pedant so I noticed it, most wouldn't.  Also, applications close faster.  It depends on whether that's worth the money to most people, it probably isn't.

3GiB ~ ... not seeing anything.

At the 3GiB mark I actually passed the extra GiB onto family because I was getting no use out of it whatsoever.  So I agree that for most people, 1GiB will likely be enough.

However, no one should ever find themselves stuck with 512MeB.  Ever.

[Vidar]

Pentium 4 HT 3.2Ghz
1GB RAM
200GB HDD
19" wide LCD
DL DVD Burner
Intel GMA 900 Graphics

<police voice>
STEP AWAY FROM THE INTEGRATED GRAPHICS SOLUTION!
</police voice>

Integrated graphics are EVIL.
Though this computer TECHNICALLY has 1GB of RAM, part of it is used by the integrated graphics card. Typically 64 to 128 MB. Also, integrated graphics solutions clutter the main bus with all the graphics data they have to shovel to and from the RAM. If you want to do anything more graphicly intensive then browsing the internet, you will want a modern, dedicated, leading brand graphics card, like a Geforce 7-series, or a Radeon 1000-series.

The rest of the system sounds nice, but you will want to know about what kind of mainboard it has, and what kind of upgrade-options it has (AGP, PCI-Express, additional RAM-slots, etc.). Also, you will want to know what speed the RAM is. I've seen 3.2 GHz P4's with 133Mhz ram.   They ran slow, like "molasses in winter in Canada" slow.
When you have this information, write it down, and find out how bad it is on the internet, or through computer-literate friends.

When you purchase your computer, take someone computer-literate with you. Salespeople are not trustworthy, often do NOT know what's inside a computer, and do NOT know more then how cool the mouse looks. They will make stuff up on the spot just to shovel whatever junk it is to whatever poor sap they have in front of them because they want the moneys in your wallet.

Avoid brand-name computers like HP or Dell: they are crap. They will try whatever vendor-lock-in trick they can find on you, the components are cheap (as in 'badly made'), the support is lousy at best, often they will not have a windows CD, even if you paid for a licence when you bought the computer, and a lot of geeks will not help you with problems with such things, because they don't want to be blamed if the <brand-name>-helpdesk will no longer help you because of some clause in the end-user-licence.

If you can, go the Amber route of getting a new comp, and build one (or have one built).

Edit: If you can wait a bit, and save up a little more money, you might get a brand new shiney Inter Core 2 Duo E6400. For a brand new processor it's likely to be dirt-cheap (a bit over US$220 (for the processor, not the whole pc) and it will overclock like nothing else I've ever seen. Firingsquad get an extra 1.3 GHz out of it. In light of this developement, I will wait a bit with my own upgrade, and go from AMD to Intel.

[Aridas]

And besides, the core 2 duo processors are said to be the best next generation option. If you needed to upgrade later on you could probably stick another one in since I doubt they'd be obsolete any time soon.

[RJ]

Well, I went in yesterday. Since I'm paying it off in installments per month, the guy said that he'll make sure I'll get those minimum specs; but since by the time I get it, there will be bigger and better out on the market, so I'll end up getting that. I'm a little confused, but by the looks of it, 3 months is enough time to see a lot of improvement in the market. In any case, I'll just be glad I'll be getting something better than my current computer. Maybe in the future I'll be able to upgrade it, but for now I just have to make do with what is avaliable to me.

[Azlan]

The Core 2 Duo and Extreme currently trounce AMD's X2 chips, including the pricey FX-62.  For the moment, Intel is the better product both performance and price.

I won't sell out to Intel, but that doesn't mean others can't benefit from their new exceptional design.

[LionHeart]

... since by the time I get it, there will be bigger and better out on the market, so I'll end up getting that. I'm a little confused, but by the looks of it, 3 months is enough time to see a lot of improvement in the market.

That is one of the fundamental laws of computer hardware: Whatever you buy, no matter how cutting edge, will be superseded by a newer, faster and shinier system by the time you get it home.

[Aridas]

Or in my case, cheaper. hmm, that rebate wasn't there yesterday... >.>

[Saist]

Australia... needs parts...

Btw Azlan, before I get started, Conroe and Memron do not "trounce" Athlon64 processors. Number 1: if you run Socket AM2 motherboards with Tight memory timings, you get an average of 15% boost across a majority of CPU-Influenced applications. Problem is with sites like Anandtech, testers went out of their way to use motherboards with known issues reguarding memory performance, or used loose memory timings. I've got a Core2 unit sitting in testing. It doesn't blow AM2 out of the water. Now. It is faster. On average as far as I can reproduce, by about 5% across Linux and Windows.   That isn't trouncing.  HardOCP also has a gaming test where they pitted the 2.66ghz Core2 and the 2.93ghz Core2 against the 2.8ghz Athlon64 FX 62. Their performance delta was similar to the one I can reproduce. There isn't any trouncing going on by Core2. It may also be important to compare the performance delta of the FX-60 to the FX-62, then compare the reliable percentage difference between those two processors to the performance delta between the 2.93ghz Core2 and it's 2.66ghz brother. The results indicate a serious architecture problem (it's called the Front Side Bus) as the AMD chips scale as expected with clock and cache, and the Intel chips do not.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTEwOCwyLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

Number 2: The problem gets more complex when I compute heat ouput and power draw. The Core2 unit I have (E6300 for reference) is using Zalmans 120mm fan. The internal temp report places it about 10 degrees hotter than an Athlon64 2800 running in a similar case (Apeiva XQpack) with a 92mm Zalman heatsink.  For reference, the stock clock of the A64 2800 is 1.8ghz. It's running at 2.15ghz right now. The Conroe and Memron processors are also more expensive, $200+ (US) gets a retail E6300, where as I can get the Atlhon64 3800 for around $150.  If I'm willing to drop out $200, I get the AthlonX2 4200 at $180. It's still not even a contest between the two. AMD may not have that ultimate performance crown, but then again, during the latter years of the AthlonXP, AMD didn't have the top performance crown. What AMD did have was better bang for buck, and now they have better bang for buck for watt as well.

Alright, onto RJ's problem.

Okay, all links have been checked. I think everything should be working. And unless you need input on a monitor, I think I'm done editing this post.


Okay, visited Dans' Data and he seems to have a working relation with Aus PC, so I'm getting these prices from there.  Btw, prices supposedly include freight to have it shipped.

For the processor I'd actually recommend the AMD Socket 754 Sempron 3000. It's about $121 with GST :
http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=CP-CPUASM64-3000&input[category_id]=1027

Thing is with the Sempron 3000 is that it's Single Threaded performance is about the same as a standard Athlon64 3000. You don't notice a performance difference until you start trying to do several things at once.

If you want a little more grunt, $143 with GST puts the Socket AM2 3000 in your paws. This also gives you a better upgrade path as you'll have more choices later on

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=CP-ADA3000CNBOX&input[category_id]=15


If you can get up to the $200 with GST mark, you can get a real Dual-Core with the Socket AM2 3600 at $209

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=CP-ADA3600CUBOX&input[category_id]=15



Next thing you need is a motherboard. Now.. for the linked Socket 754 chip, they don't have any motherboards I would use in ATX format. The only one that looks acceptable is Asrock's board. Asrock is the "budget" division of Asus. Their board is $104 with GST.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=CP-ADA3600CUBOX&input[category_id]=15

On the Micro ATX side is the Gigabyte Via based board. I've come across a few of these. They ain't bad, but I can't find any BioStar T-Force boards for you. It's around $115 with GST

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=CP-ADA3600CUBOX&input[category_id]=15


Okay, before I go on, the difference between Micro-ATX and ATX is size.  We'll get to that in a minute with the cases.

Now, the Socket AM2 ATX boards give us more choice... but with an increased price.

The only one I'd actually buy if it were my money at stake is the ABIT KN9-SLI AMD SKTAM2 NF570 BOARD. It's $214 with GST.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-KN9-SLI&input[category_id]=1451

The Micro-ATX side for AM2 isn't much better. The only one i'd be caught with is ASUS M2NPV-MX AMD SKTAM2 GF6150 MATX BOARD. You can grab it for about $154 with GST.


Okay, quick recap, lets do a quick total:

$225  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board:
$236  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board:

$357  Athlon64 3000 + Abit ATX board
$297  Athlon64 3000 + Asus mATX board

$423  AthlonX2 3600 + Abit ATX Board
$363  AthlonX2 3600 + Asus mATX Board


Alright, the next thing you want to think about is cooling down the processor. Some people will tell you that the stock fan is enough. I couldn't.

I'm personally a fan of Zalman's coolers, they tend to be fairly easy to install, but the import price just made me gag. Okay, for our Socket 754 chip you have the 92mm Zalman Cooler at a gst of $50

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-FANZL-CNPS7000-ALCU&input[category_id]=1077

The 120mm version weighs in at $63, but honestly, unless you are overclocking the processor (I doubt it) that's not really cost you need to spend:

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-CNPS7700-ALCU&input[category_id]=1077


The Socket AM2 side is a little bit difficult. Thermaltakes Blue Orb II is now shipping with Socket AM2 mounting brackets. But... it starts at $61 GTS and has a blue glow

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=FA-CFAN-CLP00257&input[category_id]=1453

The other two fans in the range for Socket AM2 that I've used are both $94 with GST... and they aren't exactly low profile.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-CNPS9500-AM2&input[category_id]=1453
http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=FA-CFAN-CLP0268&input[category_id]=1453

Okay, recap again


$275  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 90mm fan:
$286  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 90mm fan:

$288  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 120mm fan:
$299  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 120mm fan:

$418  Athlon64 3000 + Abit ATX board + 120mm Fan
$358  Athlon64 3000 + Asus mATX board + 120mm Fan

$484  AthlonX2 3600 + Abit ATX Board + 120mm Fan
$424  AthlonX2 3600 + Asus mATX Board + 120mm Fan


Alright, I'm gonna cut it here, get something up, then run the rest as an edit.

Alright, memory should come next. As already mentioned way earlier in the topic, Athlon's perform better with tight memory timings.  In order to keep our "recap" matrix under control, I'm going to try to keep from giving more and more choices and try to pick what seems best.

Now our Socket 754 motherboard uses DDR Ram, and I've worked with OZC before. You can pick up a Full gig of DDR ram for $183 with GST

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AIT-MMOC401024PFD&input[category_id]=344


Our Socket AM2 motherboards use DDR2 Ram, and love tight memory timings. Now, I haven't been able to find any 3-3-3-8 timed memory modules for DDR2 in the Australian Channel markets. The best i can find is Geil's 3-4-4-8 timed sticks. Those will run you $275 from Aus PC. You could probably get them to 3-3-3-8 if you wanted.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=RA-GEDDR264001GBDCUL&input[category_id]=1338


Onto our drives. Now, I happen to like Hitachi disk drives. They tend to be better performers. But, I can't find any Hitachi's in Australian Channels. So, looking through what I can find, Aus PC has Samsungs 200gig SATA drive for $138

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-SP2004C&input[category_id]=366


Ouch, Australia is getting HOSED on DVD+/-RW prices... Okay, cheapest one Aus PC has listed is the $77 Lite-on drive.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=MU-LISHM-165P6S-OEM&input[category_id]=228

Okay, recap time with our memory and drives

$673  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner:
$684  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 90mm fan:

$686  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 120mm fan:
$697  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 120mm fan:

$908  Athlon64 3000 + Abit ATX board + 120mm Fan
$848  Athlon64 3000 + Asus mATX board + 120mm Fan

$974  AthlonX2 3600 + Abit ATX Board + 120mm Fan
$914  AthlonX2 3600 + Asus mATX Board + 120mm Fan

Alright.

What we need to finish this off is a Case, a Power Supply, a graphics card, and a monitor. So, next edit, lets get those taken care of trying to stay under $1300 AU.


Okay, cases and power supplies. Now, I'm a fan of Apevia's X-Qpack series for Micro ATX boards. Unfortunantly, Apevia doesn't have any resellers listed for Australia. The closet thing listed is Antec's little box. It's $165 with GST... and you can't swap the included 300watt power supply out for anything else. Ouch.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-NSK1300&input[category_id]=223

Gigabyte has a more resonable case for $107, and it comes with a keyboard, mouse, and a 300watt power supply. .. Okay. Word of advice. Gigabyte does not list this case on any of their sites. I think it should accept a standard power supply. Could be wrong.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=CA-GZ-MX1&input[category_id]=223


Moving up to larger sized cases, KME has a mid-tower for $97 that also has keyboard, mouse, and a 400watt power supply.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-HS-9962&input[category_id]=221


Me personally? I have the kind of case next linked. It weighs in at $150 and ships with a 400watt power supply. It's big though.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-SX1040BII&input[category_id]=220

Alright, recap time...

$791  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Gigabyte mATX case + 300watt power supply:

$804  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Gigabyte mATX case + 300watt power supply:

$955  Athlon64 3000 + Asus mATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Gigabye mATX case + 300watt power supply:

$1021  AthlonX2 3600 + Asus mATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Gigabye mATX case + 300watt power supply:

$770  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply:
$781  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply:

$823  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antec Case + 400watt Power supply:
$834 Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply:

$783  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply::
$794  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply::

$836  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply:
$847  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply::

$1005  Athlon64 3000 + Abit ATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply:
$945  Athlon64 3000 + Asus mATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply:

$1058  Athlon64 3000 + Abit ATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply:
$998  Athlon64 3000 + Asus mATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply:

$1071  AthlonX2 3600 + Abit ATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply:
$1011  AthlonX2 3600 + Asus mATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply:

$1124  AthlonX2 3600 + Abit ATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply:
$1064  AthlonX2 3600 + Asus mATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply:


... well, there went keeping control on the recap matrix.

Alright, our most expensive unit is sitting at $1124.  That doesn't leave us much wiggle room for a stand alone graphics card and a monitor. On the other hand, our cheapest build is at $770, with plenty of room for both. 

Now, I'm going to presume that you have another monitor on hand for the final builds, to keep the computer itself under $1300

Okay, I'm looking to spend around $170 for a graphics card. That's about $115 in US dollars.  In that price bracket we should find some x1600 Pro's, 7600GS's, and if we are lucky, an x800 GTO 12 pipeline.

Sitting right at $176 with GST is an x1600 Pro 128mb

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-EV-X1600PRO-C3-PCIE&input[category_id]=1203

Go a couple dollars over, and $178 gets you the 256meg x1600 Pro. However, I will admit, in my own testings with the x1600, that extra amount of memory makes no difference in testing

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-MSI-X1600PRO-TD256E&input[category_id]=1203

Someone else, Palit (never heard of em) has an x1600 Pro with 256 for $165

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=BRO-BVPAAEX160PTD21&input[category_id]=1203

Palit also has a silent (passive) 7600GS for $172

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=BRO-BVPANE7600STD21&input[category_id]=1203

Gainwards 7600 GS will set you back $184.

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AIT-VGGAPX76GSDHS-7890&input[category_id]=1203

Alright, our final recap is going to use the x1600 Pro from XPERTVISION. That places our power system right at $1300.



$967  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Gigabyte mATX case + 300watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:

$980  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Gigabyte mATX case + 300watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:

$1131  Athlon64 3000 + Asus mATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Gigabye mATX case + 300watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:

$1197  AthlonX2 3600 + Asus mATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Gigabye mATX case + 300watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:

$946  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply  + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:
$957  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:

$999  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antec Case + 400watt Power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:
$1010 Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 90mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:

$959  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb::
$970  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb::

$1012  Sempron 3000 + Asrock ATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:
$1023  Sempron 3000 + Gigabyte mATX board + 120mm fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb::

$1181  Athlon64 3000 + Abit ATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:
$1121  Athlon64 3000 + Asus mATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:

$1234  Athlon64 3000 + Abit ATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:
$1174  Athlon64 3000 + Asus mATX board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:

$1247  AthlonX2 3600 + Abit ATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:
$1187 AthlonX2 3600 + Asus mATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + KME Case + 400watt power supply + Radeon x1600 Pro 128mb:

$1300  AthlonX2 3600 + Abit ATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply:
$1240  AthlonX2 3600 + Asus mATX Board + 120mm Fan + Memory + Drive + DVD burner + Antech Case + 400watt Power supply:


Alright. There we go.

Okay, going back to something I said earlier, well kinda said.

The problem with the power supplies that come in cases is that they then to be loud and not very effective.

On most of the builds a different power supply shouldn't put you over the line, but even with the $1300 even build I'd recommend getting a different power supply.

For about $143 Zalman has a great 460watt Power supply. I've used the 400watt version before, which has a price tag of $130

460watt
http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-ZM460B-APS&input[category_id]=97

400watt
http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?input[product_code]=AL-CSP-ZM400B-APS&input[category_id]=97

That, I think gets you everything you need to set the computer up.

[RJ]

Whoa, awesome Saist! Good kitty I'll have to show this to my dad a little later.

[Aridas]

Conroe and Memron do not "trounce" Athlon64 processors.

Well, SOMEONE hasn't been looking at official tests. Or heck, testing the better processors against each other.