The removal of headwings.

[Mao]

If you or anyone else thinks 'Cubi are perfect, you haven't been reading Abel's Story or the main comic.  Notice the arse whupping Danny boy has been receiving from DP or that Abel received in the SAIA arc?  Hello clan extinction at the hand of one dragon?  Fae and, to a slightly lesser extent, Dragons on the other hand....

[Amber Williams]

As Mao said, Cubi are far from perfect. They have a very interesting bag of tricks, but its just a bunch of tricks. When you get past the tentacles and the shifting and the empathy, Cubi are relatively weak. They just make a better job of puffing themselves up to look like they are the top class.

If you want some weaknesses:

Cubi are less magically powerful, which is probably why the clan leader system is set up. The Clan leader in a way acts as a power reserve which then boosts the magical and powerful abilities to the individual Cubi because on their own...Cubi are not all that magically adept in comparison to some of the other creatures about.

Cubi can shapeshift, but they cannot make themselves indestructable.  A demon or an angel can have any part of their body go rock solid indestructable as a reflex. A Cubi only has that option with their wings. Now granted they can morph their wings to go around their body or some really clever ones can make a really fine layer of that across the skin of their vital areas...but they have to make an effort for something demons get naturally.  And even than, some demons can even punch through that.

But really, a Cubi's biggest weakness is often just themselves. A Cubi that relies on thought-reading will often be led astray by someone who knows how to mislead their own thoughts. A Cubi that relies on using magic or their wing tentacles in fighting will be at a complete loss when situations occur that don't allow them access to those abilities.   Cubi by nature are show-offs, and like a magician...take away their special effects and at their base they are quite pushovers.

[Sofox]

Nice info Amber.
Actually, I was wondering a bit about how Demons seem to be seen as more powerful then Cubi in your universe, despite them seemingly not having as many abilities.
Thanks for clearing it up a bit.

[Amber Williams]

Demons don't have the shiny jazz hands that Cubi have...but their abilities are much more solid and reliable. Which makes them seem less impressive, but in actual practice most demons can wipe the floor with most Cubi.

Granted it will also vary on individual basis as well.  That's the problem when people base a race's effectiveness only on if they can be beaten in a fight. Because even a being can take down a demon if the being has the skills, training, or just a really lucky shot.  There's really only two races in DMFA that can be considered unstoppable.

[Jairus]

Demons don't have the shiny jazz hands that Cubi have...but their abilities are much more solid and reliable. Which makes them seem less impressive, but in actual practice most demons can wipe the floor with most Cubi.

Granted it will also vary on individual basis as well.  That's the problem when people base a race's effectiveness only on if they can be beaten in a fight. Because even a being can take down a demon if the being has the skills, training, or just a really lucky shot.  There's really only two races in DMFA that can be considered unstoppable.

Mows, and Girl Scouts.

[Turnsky]

Demons don't have the shiny jazz hands that Cubi have...but their abilities are much more solid and reliable. Which makes them seem less impressive, but in actual practice most demons can wipe the floor with most Cubi.

Granted it will also vary on individual basis as well.  That's the problem when people base a race's effectiveness only on if they can be beaten in a fight. Because even a being can take down a demon if the being has the skills, training, or just a really lucky shot.  There's really only two races in DMFA that can be considered unstoppable.

with proper training, that would mean Dan would have an(however slight) advantage over most Cubi in being actually combat proficient to a degree.


also, cubi must be hell at a game of poker.. 

[Garsemor]

also, cubi must be hell at a game of poker.. 

Yes they are.(http://missmab.com/Demo/Cubi01.php)

[Turnsky]

also, cubi must be hell at a game of poker.. 

Yes they are.(http://missmab.com/Demo/Cubi01.php)

i was more referring to the 'bluffing' thing. 

[Lucheek]

What is that phrase?

The fox has a bag of tricks, the hedgehog has one very good one.

[Jairus]

What is that phrase?

The fox has a bag of tricks, the hedgehog has one very good one.

I thought it was "The hedgehog can never be buggered at all."

[Turnsky]

of course, this whole discussion leads to "if they're chopped off, can they grow back?", and the absurd mental image of a Cubi watering little pots with teeny headwings growing in them. 

[Mao]

Demons don't have the shiny jazz hands that Cubi have...

Great now I'm trying to picture DP doing Jazz Hands.  Thanks a bunch Amber.

[JaxiD]

Now I pretty much think of Cubi as exactly as I did before hand, except now I know what happens if they lose their headwings.

[Caswin]

Cubi are less magically powerful, which is probably why the clan leader system is set up.

I just wanted to clarify: 'cubi are less magically powerful than a wide variety of Creatures, or (as it seems to be an issue more often) than the average magically-inclined Being?

[Amber Williams]

Cubi are less magically powerful, which is probably why the clan leader system is set up.

I just wanted to clarify: 'cubi are less magically powerful than a wide variety of Creatures, or (as it seems to be an issue more often) than the average magically-inclined Being?

A lot of this stuff depends on several variables: the upbringing of the individual, the culture they are raised in, family quirks, personal personality, etc.

If you were to go hypothetical and have an average Cubi and an average magically inclined being...had them raised in a similar environment with similar classes...etc...on a pure magic to magic scale they would likely be dead even. But obviously there are a lot more factors one has to consider other than pure magic.

An example could be given that if it was a pure magic combat, Merlitz would likely be able to wipe the floor with Abel and Aaryanna and Dan.  But there is obviously a lot more to fighting than just throwing spells around.

Flipside, Kria could likely wipe the floor with Merlitz simply because (though it hasn't been shown all quite yet) magic isn't very effective on her. So she would likely be able to walk right through Merlitz' spells and deck him. Which flipside, Abel would be highly effective against Kria because he has been trained to deal with up close and physical fighting...which Dan in theory would be able to dominate Abel since Dan specializes in weapons rather than direct hand to hand...and so on and so forth.

[Mao]

It's like I'm watching a DnD scenario playing out in comic form!

[Amber Williams]

Roll for initiative!

[Lucheek]

It's like I'm watching a DnD scenario playing out in comic form!

I was thinking more Rock-Paper-Scissors!

Kria beats Merlitz, but Abel beats Kria...

[Mao]

Roll for initiative!

I roll natural 1's. 

[Caswin]

That's verrrrrrrrrrry interesting.

...and it helps put words to where I think the recurring complaints are coming from: How Cubi stack up against Beings -- Beings being the "normal" ones of the lot, the most common race in Furrae, and by far the most relatable to the human audience, making them the most common point of reference by which to judge everyone else.  Even if certain individual matchups between Cubi and Beings (specifically involving seasoned fighters like Dan or Merlitz) could go either way, and Cubi themselves don't rank very high on the "Mighty Folk of Furrae" list, compared to Beings at large, Cubi seem to be set apart by nothing but advantages -- tendrils-on-command, shapeshifting, thought-reading, physical strength(?), and a penchant for inflicting pain and terror on weaker creatures to boot.

Therefore, even if Cubi have an inflated ego or an over-reliance on their personal shtick compared to Beings, while a trained adventurer might be able to turn that to their advantage, the average Being is just going to be eviscerated, or otherwise fall prey to whatever that particular Cubi has in mind.  Outside of specific and relatively rare scenarios such as a well-prepared adventurer taking the offensive, Cubi range from equal to greatly superior to the "normal" Beings in every practical way.

[Amber Williams]

Outside of specific and relatively rare scenarios such as a well-prepared adventurer taking the offensive, Cubi range from equal to greatly superior to the "normal" Beings in every practical way.

This is a suprise?

The average Cubi versus the average being? Landslide.
The average Demon versus the average being? Landslide.
The average Mythos versus the average being? Landslide.
The average Dragon versus the average being? Landslide.
The average Fae versus the average being? ...I think it goes without saying.

The only thing I ever wonder is why Cubi get called out on their overpoweredness.

[Amber Williams]

I'm so cool I get to double post. Cause I don't want it to constantly look like I'm changing my previous post as I add more things.

Don't get me wrong. I get it to an extent. Cubi are definately not lightweights when it comes to a fight.

But the thing I have generally tried to stress is there is more to power and winning the day than just who can beat who in a fight.  While people may relate the most to the beings, they seem to also be so focused on how they can come up with scenarios to beat the snot out of everything around them...which is ironically...more something the Demon race would relate to well enough.

While the races play to an extent, I generally have always hoped the main focus would be on the individuals and the impacts they did moreso than the race in general.  And that it seems to not be the case based on the commentary and speculation means that this is probably a failing in my own storytelling which I will have to focus on fixing in the future.

[Chaos]

Average being vs Mow?

[Amber Williams]

Average being vs Mow?

Oh god...the fanfictions.

[Jairus]

I'm so cool I get to double post. Cause I don't want it to constantly look like I'm changing my previous post as I add more things.

Don't get me wrong. I get it to an extent. Cubi are definately not lightweights when it comes to a fight.

But the thing I have generally tried to stress is there is more to power and winning the day than just who can beat who in a fight.  While people may relate the most to the beings, they seem to also be so focused on how they can come up with scenarios to beat the snot out of everything around them...which is ironically...more something the Demon race would relate to well enough.

While the races play to an extent, I generally have always hoped the main focus would be on the individuals and the impacts they did moreso than the race in general.  And that it seems to not be the case based on the commentary and speculation means that this is probably a failing in my own storytelling which I will have to focus on fixing in the future.

That's just the way people are, always wondering who is the strongest. Go to any Gundam forum, and you'll find dozens of topics along the line of "[blank] Gundam vs. [blank] Gundam, which would win," which eventually degrade into arguments and fanboy tantrums and sulkings and moderators coming down on things... um, anyway. People just like to compare two things to see which is "better." Elves vs. dwarves, angels vs. demons, Star Wars vs. Star Trek... you're just lucky enough to have enough of a fanbase that you get to see this competition firsthand, I guess. And really, when it comes to might makes right contests, beings kinda sorta have to play by Demon rules rather than their own, or at least that whole mentality of the most powerful one being the right one. It kinda sucks.

Cubi really seem to be a more brains over brawn type race, given their limitations. Arguably, I'd say that makes them a bit more dangerous than a demon. But then again, I'm not entirely certain.

[Chaos]

I've always found that while some might be more powerful, Cubi would just be the most fun to BE!

[Turnsky]

Average being vs Mow?

Oh god...the fanfictions.

i see mows being launched over nets with badminton raquets

[Kage]

Roll for initiative!

I roll natural 1's. 

You haven't used the Bryceroller(tm) Yet!

[Jairus]

Average being vs Mow?

Oh god...the fanfictions.

i see mows being launched over nets with badminton raquets

Badmowton.

[Attic Rat]

Silly question time: Would a Cubi be in any way distressed at being stuck in a crowd of Beings who have catchy tunes stuck in their heads?

(When Earworms Attack!)