11/07/07 [DMFA Guest Strip] - by Paul

[Zedd]

just as long as the comic doesn't die over night, and you don't draw said danglies, i'll be fine.

Man, where were you when brains were handed out? Behind the door?

Amen to that...

[Naldru]

just as long as the comic doesn't die over night, and you don't draw said danglies, i'll be fine.

Man, where were you when brains were handed out? Behind the door?

Either of these is her choice. It's her comic, she draws it because she wants to. Us viewing it is a nice bonus, but totally irrelevant. And it's her characters. If she wants to draw danglies, then she's perfectly allowed to. The only limitation is she can't then go and hand them out to minors, because that would be against the law. Barring that, she can do whatever the hell she wants with her characters, and we, as a group or as individuals, have exactly zero say in anything about it.

Sheesh.

Er, I'm assuming that the dangly bits you are discussing aren't earrings.

Such a decision would also suggest the need for a home page that notifies the viewer that the material may be adult in nature, and that they shouldn't view it unless they have reached a legal age.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Naldru: I said that, didn't I?

Nothing stops Amber from being able to -draw- such content.

Laws stop her from publishing it to possible minors.

That would imply that, should she load such a drawing onto her site, she should probably include such a warning....

[Kamunt]

I dunno...does the law apply to characters of races/species that don't even exist? I mean, you can't make a law banning/restricting things that don't exist, obviously....they aren't animals, and they aren't people.

[Amber Williams]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what a nipple and vagina are kamunt when it comes to looking a picture. Even if said things are attached to a fictional creature.  As such, I'm pretty sure flagrant displays of eiher could fall within a definition of pornography.  But that isn't really the point.

The point is more that a creator should hold themselves responsible for the content they produce. If I was to start up mature artwork, I would only want to do so in a manner in which those who don't want to be exposed to such things wouldn't stumble upon it.  That isn't really the law so much as common courtesy and common sense.

Other than that, I am more or less free to do what I want with my characters.  And at this point, I am opting to keep an all-age production.  Should I ever want to delve into more mature things, then I will.  But at this time, mature artwork holds little to no interest. Especially considering the costs severly outweigh any benefits from doing so.

[Kamunt]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what a nipple and vagina are kamunt when it comes to looking a picture. Even if said things are attached to a fictional creature.  As such, I'm pretty sure flagrant displays of eiher could fall within a definition of pornography.

X3 Fair enough.

Should I ever want to delve into more mature things, then I will.

I know what you mean by "mature", but I must say that Abel's Story is already pretty mature as it is. Blood and guts, flagrant cursing, deeply disturbing one young 'cubi, suicide, dark outlook in general...that's pretty mature to me. Knockers or not.

[Naldru]

I dunno...does the law apply to characters of races/species that don't even exist? I mean, you can't make a law banning/restricting things that don't exist, obviously....they aren't animals, and they aren't people.

A few cases involving this type of discussion have actually reached the Supreme Court of the United States of America.  I believe the general feeling was that while the court dislikes sweeping statements limiting the distribution of material, they do realize that circumstances may arise where media that does not involve real people will still come under the jurisdiction of the laws banning the distribution of "adult" material.

Remember that we are dealing with anthropomorphic characters.  The fact that they have human properties would probably place them under the same rules as media involving human beings.  The fact that the characters are fictional and the illustrations are not of living actors was where I recall the court saying they reserved the right to look at such cases as they arose.

The one thing that bothers me is that there exists some dishonesty about some of the people trying to pass laws about adult material.  They claim that their goal is to stop dissemination to minors, but their actual goal appears to prevent dissemination of the material to anybody.  This distinction results in laws that are vague, unenforceable, and frequently overturned by the courts.

What I'd like to see is a meta tag established for "adult" material that would be required to be placed on all web pages involving such material.  Since all this requires is a computer readable statement concerning the material, I feel that it would be approved by the courts.  Browsers could then install "parental controls" that would check for these flags.  Simple, enforceable, and it wouldn't require a massive bureaucracy.

Personally, I prefer PG (and maybe PG-13) comics to those having the dangly and naughty bits hanging out for all to see.  For too much of the "adult" material, the goal seems to be to see how big the bits (and tits) can be and this tends to detract from the story.

To llearch
I had assumed that your comments referred to active distribution of material as opposed to making it available for viewing by others.  You apparently were including both categories, which I didn't understand at the time.

Edit:

To Amber

I agree completely that's it mainly due to the creator rather than the material itself.  However, calling the fan base of some of these items morons may be giving them credit for too much intelligence.  They seem to be imbeciles at best.

[Amber Williams]

Personally, I prefer PG (and maybe PG-13) comics to those having the dangly and naughty bits hanging out for all to see.  For too much of the "adult" material, the goal seems to be to see how big the bits (and tits) can be and this tends to detract from the story.

I tend to find that a fault of the creator moreso than the material.  It's an unfortunate case that when adult content is added into an equation, most people then round out to the lowest common denominator.  Which can be understandable...as sex sells and sells well.  Unfortunately it also tends to come with a negative side effect that no one ever really sees your work as anything but the mature content.

However, there are several strips that do have a decent balance between adult content and storyline.   It's hard to do, but I have seen it pulled off on a few occasions.  Even then though, many will consider what they do a porn comic because of the adult situations.  It has never failed to amaze me that for a medium that requires all its viewers to be 18+, most adult centered fanbases are filled to the brim with immature morons.

[Kamunt]

However, there are several strips that do have a decent balance between adult content and storyline.   It's hard to do, but I have seen it pulled off on a few occasions.  Even then though, many will consider what they do a porn comic because of the adult situations.  It has never failed to amaze me that for a medium that requires all its viewers to be 18+, most adult centered fanbases are filled to the brim with immature morons.

AMEN!! It's literally completely ridiculous. I couldn't have said it any better myself.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I had assumed that your comments referred to active distribution of material as opposed to making it available for viewing by others.  You apparently were including both categories, which I didn't understand at the time.

S'ok. It was the end of a long day, and coming right after the previous post, I was, possibly, more abrupt than I might otherwise have been. Apologies on both sides, then.

[Alondro]

*Charles will draw Fa'lina naked!  And doing naughty things!*   

*Charline merely smirks*  Oh gee... more poorly drawn stick figure pr0n on the Internets.  Whatever will we do.

*Charles*   

[Paul]

wait, wasn't that guy banned for drawing mab naked or something?

Who, me? I have never drawn any DMFA characters naked.

*hand wave* This is not the Mab pr0n you are looking for.

Seriously, though... what Amber said. Naked does not necessarily equal pr0n. It comes down to how it's done. I've drawn plenty of naked people in life drawing classes, and those drawings are utterly non-erotic.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Who, me? I have never drawn any DMFA characters naked.

.. does that include the eggs?

[M]

Seriously, though... what Amber said. Naked does not necessarily equal pr0n. It comes down to how it's done. I've drawn plenty of naked people in life drawing classes, and those drawings are utterly non-erotic.

Well, of course. For many years I've known the phrase "artistic nudity". "Artistic" being the primary word. I saw many wonderful works of art while in Chicago that involved nudity. The body can be a beautiful thing. 

[xHaZxMaTx]

*Is suddenly reminded of Robert Mapplethorpe.*

[Naldru]

*Is suddenly reminded of Robert Mapplethorpe.*

That was more than the people being naked.  It involved the individuals who had their pictures taken and their actions in the photos.  There was a lot of debate about that book.  I think the general consensus for a lot of people was that it was artistic but they didn't want small children seeing it.

If you remember the recent Michael Jackson trial, there was a lot of talk about a book that was kept locked away in Neverland.  From some comments that I heard, I believe that that was the Maplethorpe book.

By the way, Amber mentioned that there were some items of media that had adult themes and still had a storyline.  One that comes to mind was a comic book called The Pro.  (An alien gives a prostitute superpowers just to see what happens.)

[xHaZxMaTx]

I didn't say what it was or wasn't, I just said I was reminded of it.

[Amber Williams]

I remember reading the Pro.  While a bit crude in some parts, it did stay true to itself.

Oftentimes it is one of those things an artist has to decide when doing their comic, basically how mature do they want to go.  Not to mention one has to consider the concequences one can get dealt when dealing with mature stuff.  In regards to the people who have drawn naked Mab:  1 was somewhat out of the blue and I've never been certain how to react to that.  2 were done as jokes, which I was aware they were doing and laughed about.   It goes about the same of any mature artwork I draw: 85% of them are done as a joke because it's funny to me. (10% are done because I witness someone trying to draw a nude figure so terribly I have to step in and draw a counter-model to show them what they are doing wrong)

I decided a while back DMFA's main story will A) try to do humour first, drama last and B)be as many-age friendly as possible.  Mikelo's Story might contain more adult elements....that's more a "cross the bridge when we get there".  Apartment Complexity will more than likely have adult elements, but I don't really see it as a sex comic so much as a comic where occasionally a character will probably have sex.  Guess that will be up to other people to decide.

I guess it boils down to: I have no problem with nudity. I don't even have a problem with mature content.  I just have a problem with other people and their interpretation of it.  Be they the "durh hurh. Mab drew porn. " types or the "Omg! You can't draw anything mature EVAH!" types.

[Kenji]

Apartment Complexity will more than likely have adult elements, but I don't really see it as a sex comic so much as a comic where occasionally a character will probably have sex.  Guess that will be up to other people to decide.

Once a character has sex, everyone expects them to always be having sex.

[Amber Williams]

Considering simple nature, I'm sure some of the characters wouldn't mind that setup themselves.

[Dannysaysnoo]

I remember reading the Pro.  While a bit crude in some parts, it did stay true to itself.

Oftentimes it is one of those things an artist has to decide when doing their comic, basically how mature do they want to go.  Not to mention one has to consider the concequences one can get dealt when dealing with mature stuff.  In regards to the people who have drawn naked Mab:  1 was somewhat out of the blue and I've never been certain how to react to that.  2 were done as jokes, which I was aware they were doing and laughed about.   It goes about the same of any mature artwork I draw: 85% of them are done as a joke because it's funny to me. (10% are done because I witness someone trying to draw a nude figure so terribly I have to step in and draw a counter-model to show them what they are doing wrong)

I decided a while back DMFA's main story will A) try to do humour first, drama last and B)be as many-age friendly as possible.  Mikelo's Story might contain more adult elements....that's more a "cross the bridge when we get there".  Apartment Complexity will more than likely have adult elements, but I don't really see it as a sex comic so much as a comic where occasionally a character will probably have sex.  Guess that will be up to other people to decide.

I guess it boils down to: I have no problem with nudity. I don't even have a problem with mature content.  I just have a problem with other people and their interpretation of it.  Be they the "durh hurh. Mab drew porn. " types or the "Omg! You can't draw anything mature EVAH!" types.

wait, you missed 5%.

[Zedd]

Considering simple nature, I'm sure some of the characters wouldn't mind that setup themselves.

Now now...Dont go asuming things thats already been thought of...I still have that audio from that crazy lemon...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

wait, you missed 5%.

... by implication, that would be the 5% that she does as -serious- naked artwork.

[Amber Williams]

wait, you missed 5%.

... by implication, that would be the 5% that she does as -serious- naked artwork.

You would be correct good sir.

I should probably also add that of the percentages I'm giving, I'm not counting the MIND-NUMBING figure drawing research.  Cause at this point, I might as well be looking at a bowl of fruit much less a reclining nude figure. It feels about the same when you are having to try to draw it in under 30 minutes. 

[Kenji]

wait, you missed 5%.

... by implication, that would be the 5% that she does as -serious- naked artwork.

You would be correct good sir.

I should probably also add that of the percentages I'm giving, I'm not counting the MIND-NUMBING figure drawing research.  Cause at this point, I might as well be looking at a bowl of fruit much less a reclining nude figure. It feels about the same when you are having to try to draw it in under 30 minutes. 

Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew. Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew.
Nope. Not seeing a difference here.

[Caswin]

wait, you missed 5%.

... by implication, that would be the 5% that she does as -serious- naked artwork.

You would be correct good sir.

I should probably also add that of the percentages I'm giving, I'm not counting the MIND-NUMBING figure drawing research.  Cause at this point, I might as well be looking at a bowl of fruit much less a reclining nude figure. It feels about the same when you are having to try to draw it in under 30 minutes. 

Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew. Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew.
Nope. Not seeing a difference here.

Okay, it might be because it's midnight, but I find this very snicker-worthily-amusing.

[Amber Williams]

Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew. Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew.
Nope. Not seeing a difference here.

STRAIGHT. AS. ARROWS.

[AnizInDisguise]

Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew. Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew.
Nope. Not seeing a difference here.

So true, except for the Able's story-specific characters

[Zedd]

Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew. Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew.
Nope. Not seeing a difference here.

STRAIGHT. AS. ARROWS.

I'll belive that when I am payed 200 grand to be a Albanions buttslave...

[AnizInDisguise]

Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew. Bowl of fruits. DMFA crew.
Nope. Not seeing a difference here.

STRAIGHT. AS. ARROWS.

I'll belive that when I am payed 200 grand to be a Albanions buttslave...

Horrible images.......... stuck...... in mind...... they......just.... won't..... get........ OUT!