How to kill Hizell

[Zorro]

So.  I want to hunt the most Dangerous Think I know.

The Dragon Hizell.

So what do we know about Hizell?

[Tapewolf]

"How do we kill the slake-moths?" Isaac hissed.
"You cannot."
"Don't ******** me," hissed Isaac.  "Everything that lives can die."
"You misunderstand me.  As an abstract proposition, of course they can die.  And therefore, theoretically, they can be killed.  But you will not be able to kill them.  You would have to hit them in many dimensions at once, or do the most extraordinary amount of damage in this one and they will not give you the chance.  Do you understand...?"
--Perdido Street Station, China Mieville


If we recall back to Abel and Pyroduck fighting, it looks like dragons are most vulnerable in their 'Being' mode.  How much of this is down to Pyroduck's youth and inexperience is unknown.
I'd figure that if you try to fight Hizell in full dragon mode, you've already lost.  If you were somehow able to catch him in Being form and inflict lethal damage in a single strike, e.g. decapitation or a projectile through his brain, that ought to work, but you never can tell with Creatures.
It would not surprise me if that's how Cyra took out M'Chek.  Lured him into a sense of security, got him to turn into Being mode for a bit of nookie, and then did something graphically violent with her wing-tentacles.

...but good luck getting him to switch into a vulnerable form.

[Techcubi]

...Meh, I could theorize, but, what's the point anymore, especially here?

Is there even any actual confirmation on whether he's a Furrae-hatched dragon or not? Someone remind me if there's actually any rules on 'Outer Dragons' listed anywhere, except maybe having to be stuck in certain roles.

[Genesis]

Dragons are also vulnerable to decapitation x5(presumably in dragon form). The one thing I don't get is why the clan leaders don't all gang up on him, and pull in help from the demons and angels(and maybe even beings), since they all seem to pretty much hate him.

[Tapewolf]

Is there even any actual confirmation on whether he's a Furrae-hatched dragon or not? Someone remind me if there's actually any rules on 'Outer Dragons' listed anywhere, except maybe having to be stuck in certain roles.

There's only one, and it is strongly implied to be Pip.  Not sure that's been confirmed 100%, but it's in the high 90s.

[Techcubi]

Being the 'Pragmatic' and 'Thoughtful' creature that he is, it's highly possible that he's pulled an extreme Voldemort: He's put/diluted his essence into as many beings and creatures as he physically can.

It's also possible that he has several proxies that look like him(And yet probably some that don't), and are connected to him, with varying intelligences?

Can we note that the dragon in the first real Dan adventure arc is a red dragon? Sure, that was before Furrae more or less really became its whole world, but, Hizell could be the type to easily somehow find a way to abuse the meta.

Is there even any actual confirmation on whether he's a Furrae-hatched dragon or not? Someone remind me if there's actually any rules on 'Outer Dragons' listed anywhere, except maybe having to be stuck in certain roles.

There's only one, and it is strongly implied to be Pip.  Not sure that's been confirmed 100%, but it's in the high 90s.

...Huh. That's- Interesting.

Remind me again, what has he been officially referred to as again?(At least race and species wise?)

[Tapewolf]

...Huh. That's- Interesting.

Remind me again, what has he been officially referred to as again?(At least race and species wise?)

Just a drake.  We've no data on those.  But.  If you look at pages 1735-1738 there is a discussion of 'true' dragons, i.e. cosmic ones.

Oh yes, and page 1785 is where it's confirmed that Hizell is just a 'long-lived mortal' and a 'dragon wannabe' rather than a proper multiversal one.

[Techcubi]

...Huh. That's- Interesting.

Remind me again, what has he been officially referred to as again?(At least race and species wise?)

Just a drake.  We've no data on those.  But.  If you look at pages 1735-1738 there is a discussion of 'true' dragons, i.e. cosmic ones.

Oh yes, and page 1785 is where it's confirmed that Hizell is just a 'long-lived mortal' and a 'dragon wannabe' rather than a proper multiversal one.

...Yeah, I'll grant you that he doesn't always seem to use the best judgment.

And, humourously enough, said comic of confirmation is called 'Meta Meddling', said title not even really needing theorizing on.

[MT Hazard]

Cyra has a strong interest in seeing him dead, perhaps she will even aid her daughter with the plan, even if it as bait, nothing would distract hizell more than the clan leader who scared dragon kind.

[Jasonrevall]

You could always go the Shadowrun route and create a nuke so powerful it kicks his soul out of his body and then you can chain his body in a cramped basement for eternity until a group of particularly skilled and powerful adventurers find it and make the choice of setting him free through death or returning him to his body.

[Tuyu]

I still think it's up to Jyrras to capture and imprison him using a mega-laminator.

[Jasonrevall]

I still think it's up to Jyrras to capture and imprison him using a mega-laminator.

Capture him in a card and use him in a children's card game while riding motorcycles.

[Shakal]

I still think it's up to Jyrras to capture and imprison him using a mega-laminator.

I suspect this would be inherently impossible. Any laminator powerful enough to laminate Hizell would laminate itself, and thus make the activation button no longer available. Such powers of lamination simply were not meant to be.

[Hariman]

You could always go the Shadowrun route and create a nuke so powerful it kicks his soul out of his body and then you can chain his body in a cramped basement for eternity until a group of particularly skilled and powerful adventurers find it and make the choice of setting him free through death or returning him to his body.

I'd call spoilers, but I guessed something like that a long time ago for that game.

Also, my thought is change the rules enough that Hizell can't wield his power and influence anymore, leaving him stymied hard enough that he leaves of his own accord and never comes back.



Or drop one hell of a piano on him.

Like a Men In Black the Animated Series piano. You know. The one that was set off on Earth's Second Moon about 5,000 years ago.

[Dishonored]

 My personal favorite would be to slap a giant toaster on him, then set Pip loose.

...Or a Teletubby costume, and smother him in mows.

[Tapewolf]

You could always go the Shadowrun route and create a nuke so powerful it kicks his soul out of his body and then you can chain his body in a cramped basement for eternity until a group of particularly skilled and powerful adventurers find it and make the choice of setting him free through death or returning him to his body.

This raises a good point, in that Mehlata had a soul-bomb that would kill all living things within a certain radius by ripping the soul from the body.  However, souls seem to get more powerful with age so it's quite possible that a device like that wouldn't be capable of touching Hizell.

[Eboreg]

My best answer:

.50 cal anti-materiel rifle

and if that doesn't work, hit him with a rocket launcher.

Come on, we all know Biggs is trying to get Jyrras to invent those things!

[Jasonrevall]

You could always go the Shadowrun route and create a nuke so powerful it kicks his soul out of his body and then you can chain his body in a cramped basement for eternity until a group of particularly skilled and powerful adventurers find it and make the choice of setting him free through death or returning him to his body.

This raises a good point, in that Mehlata had a soul-bomb that would kill all living things within a certain radius by ripping the soul from the body.  However, souls seem to get more powerful with age so it's quite possible that a device like that wouldn't be capable of touching Hizell.

Power doesn't mean the tether that keeps the body and soul bonded gets stronger. You assume that tech mixed with magic can't match the power wielded by living beings yet we can literally reconstruct matter out of the air with just tech right now with Mattershift and programmable molecular gateways. Technology can be just as terrifying when used in desperation as eldritch abominations. Hit him hard with enough badaboom and I'm sure his soul will rattle outta him in no time. After all isn't that what Mab is trying to get Jyrras to do? Even the playing field in Furrae? Or maybe that's how DMFA will end. With a bang.

Also the shadowrun thing I was refering to is actually using an older shadowrun story and the newer game itself is 4 years old. I'd think that'd be an okay thing to reference by now lol sorry if I ruined any plot for people.

[Tapewolf]

Power doesn't mean the tether that keeps the body and soul bonded gets stronger. You assume that tech mixed with magic can't match the power wielded by living beings yet we can literally reconstruct matter out of the air with just tech right now with Mattershift and programmable molecular gateways.

Depends how that particular soul-liberation technique works.  It may be that a more powerful soul requires more energy to dislodge... a single person could push a car down the road.  Hizell might be like one person trying to push a 50ft tall mining truck.  That said, it appears to be possible for lesser creatures to consume the souls of bigger ones, e.g. Zezzuva destroying her tri-winged sister, so that analogy may not hold.

As for Shadowrun, I know nothing at all about that so I can't comment on it specifically.

[The One Guy]

Why do we even need to rip his soul from his body?  Just kill the guy!

[Jasonrevall]

Why do we even need to rip his soul from his body?  Just kill the guy!

Because he has no heart so the next best target is his rotten soul.

[keybounce]

...Huh. That's- Interesting.

Remind me again, what has he been officially referred to as again?(At least race and species wise?)

Just a drake.  We've no data on those.  But.  If you look at pages 1735-1738 there is a discussion of 'true' dragons, i.e. cosmic ones.

Oh yes, and page 1785 is where it's confirmed that Hizell is just a 'long-lived mortal' and a 'dragon wannabe' rather than a proper multiversal one.

Didn't we see one of the black and white Amber pages that basically said that that Pip was one of those cosmic dragons that was effectively imprisoned?

[Tapewolf]

Didn't we see one of the black and white Amber pages that basically said that that Pip was one of those cosmic dragons that was effectively imprisoned?

Oh yes, page 1682.  It's framed in the negative, but that's the implication, and it is consistent with all the other implications.

[Techcubi]

Feel like I'm going to be digging my own grave here, but-

Gee, for a guy who appears to dislike(Or at least be heavily annoyed by)the Fae, he sure seems to look on at them whenever he gets the chance, doesn't he?

...And, Mab's whole laser finger thing could be considered almost playful, if it wasn't for the shattered scrying globe after. Why even be like that at all, to someone a ton of Beings and Creatures seem to utterly despise?

[Nightmask]

Why do we even need to rip his soul from his body?  Just kill the guy!

Because that may BE the only way to kill him, or at least for weaker creatures to eliminate him.  His soul may be more vulnerable than his body, plus with his soul ripped out it would leave his body more vulnerable.  Even just separating his soul from him for a few seconds could make it possible for a prepared adventurer to decapitate him while he's immobile.

[Tapewolf]

...And, Mab's whole laser finger thing could be considered almost playful, if it wasn't for the shattered scrying globe after. Why even be like that at all, to someone a ton of Beings and Creatures seem to utterly despise?

If the question is, "why doesn't Mab just eliminate him?", we don't have a full answer to that.  She's expressed her desire that the revolution should come from within rather that being enforced by her, but we're not told why.  It may be because it's more challenging (entertaining) to do things that way, it may be because meddling on that scale would attract unwanted attention from the forces of Order, or possibly because one of Hizell's kids would take his place and it would devolve into a massacre.

It would also make a rather disappointing, like that SF writer who recorded everything to tape, and only found out how many words he'd done when they were typed up, resulting in webs of intrigue that were abruptly wrapped up because he ran out of space.

[Tuyu]

My best answer:

.50 cal anti-materiel rifle

Or, from the old Nightstar Schlock Mercenary forums:

The 30-cm (diameter) sniper rifle.

[Shakal]

Replying a bit more seriously, have we actually gotten any reason to to believe Hizell would be ESPECIALLY hard to kill, compared to any other dragon of similar age? Dragons are listed as having no real combat weaknesses, but that doesn't mean they're indestructable. There's a reason it was a Dragon-Cubi War, not the Dragon-Slaughter-Cubi-Fest. We know a number of dragons also died, and not all of them were babies, like for instance Hizell's wife.

Their hide might be 'impenetrable' if talking about simple means, but you can't decapitate someone without penetrating their skin, much less five times.

[Jasae Bushae]

Id say probably the same way Quoar killed Hizell's wife (who probably wasn't much younger or weaker than Hizell)

Or the way Cyra killed that dragon (what was his name again?) who playing the part of a lovecraftian soul eater, was drawing power from the life force of everyone in their city including their own offspring, consuming the souls of those who died there for even greater power over the course of thousands of years.

Honestly ive seen nothing that indicates that Hizell is especially notable compared to any other big time dragon thats been mentioned. It just seems like it because hes the only dragon we actually see in the present day who anywhere near the big leagues.

[Tapewolf]

Id say probably the same way Quoar killed Hizell's wife (who probably wasn't much younger or weaker than Hizell)

Well, we saw how that worked out for Siar.

Or the way Cyra killed that dragon (what was his name again?) who playing the part of a lovecraftian soul eater, was drawing power from the life force of everyone in their city including their own offspring, consuming the souls of those who died there for even greater power over the course of thousands of years.

Remember, M'Chek saw Cyra as an amusing diversion who was of no real consequence.   I still think she got him to go into Being mode and backstabbed him then.  The entire basis for the 'Cubi extermination effort was that the race was re-evaluated from 'harmless' to 'deadly threat', but even without that I think the big dragons are not going to make the same mistake twice.

Honestly ive seen nothing that indicates that Hizell is especially notable compared to any other big time dragon thats been mentioned. It just seems like it because hes the only dragon we actually see in the present day who anywhere near the big leagues.

True.  We don't know - and Biggs admits he doesn't know - whether offing Hizell will help things in the long run, since another may simply take his place.