Furrae/DMFA CRPG project (modellers/concept artists wanted)

[Aridas]

I don't intend to keep it. I just miss the random landscape.

[tkg]

(Rescuing this thread from the greater halls of oblivion )

After much frustration with bugs having a tendency to pop up just before I settle on a release, version 0.00c is finally done. Follow this link to download. New features are, in part:

• Terrain material painting tool. Hold or click the left mouse button to paint with the material specified in the tool settings. Eventually it will be possible to paint using different brush sizes, but for now it always assumes a brush size of one. Still abhorrently buggy, though - delete textures from the list at your own risk (although adding new textures should work just fine). Also, the blending looks downright awful at the moment
• New file browser. Only has basic functionality so far, but is still an improvement from the older one in that you can now create files, and that it has automatic file filtering.
• Connection type editor. Makes it possible to configure your own connection types, for use with the tile connection tool.
• Object material assignment. Can only be set in the object types at the moment - objects created prior to any changes to the material index list must be updated using the buttons at the right-hand side of the list.

But most notably, there's been a great number of bug fixes and speed enhancements, which indeed took up most of the development time spent since the last version was released. Regardless of these efforts, there should still be plenty of bugs frolicking abound... nasty little creatures, those


Anyhow, we should now start gearing a bit towards getting some actual game content into this project. For the first "bout", we'll need to create the various terrain tiles that will be encountered in-game (details on the tile specifications will be added to the project site eventually). However, we're currently in lack of modellers to do this... if you have some experience with modelling in any package (as long as it can export to any of the most widely known formats), please consider joining the team - just give me a PM or simply post in this thread if you're interested. Thanks

[Aridas]

Hmm... the two new tile elevation modes seem difficult to use and understand... tile painting seems to be inaccurate and difficult to use properly, object position and rotation seems to be stiff and hard to use, well, particularly rotation. I'm hoping roads won't always turn at right angles.. I was hoping i'd be able to bend the roads more naturally. Lastly, I'm completely confused as to what useful purpose the tile rotation tool will be.

*tiptoes out*

[Tapewolf]

I'll try this tonight.

[tkg]

Aridas, I'll just dissect your post and answer each part separately, if you don't mind:

the two new tile elevation modes seem difficult to use and understand...

The second mode is the terrain smoothener, which currently doesn't work for anything else but fixing misaligned (or "split-at-the-seams") terrain. The third mode is the terrain leveller, which works by first pressing the left mouse button at the desired height on the landscape, and then, as you move the cursor (while still holding down the mouse button), the terrain under the brush is made level to that height.

tile painting seems to be inaccurate and difficult to use properly,

Not sure what exactly you mean by that, but I guess it has to do with some of the blending bugs that are still present. Could you clarify, please?

object position and rotation seems to be stiff and hard to use, well, particularly rotation.

I assume you haven't opened the tool settings for it (the rightmost button on the tool bar) and disabled the grid-snapping then (the button at the bottom). On another note, I really need to implement some sort of hint function soon...
Also, the rotation tool currently uses the wrong set of planes, which results in that the object will turn faster and more erratically the further into the distance you move the cursor. This will definitely be fixed in the next release.

I'm hoping roads won't always turn at right angles.. I was hoping i'd be able to bend the roads more naturally.

Just another splendid example of programmer's art right there
But really, the only limitation is that the tiles will have to join up correctly at the four cardinal directions - other than that, though, the road can be as simple/complex as you desire.

Lastly, I'm completely confused as to what useful purpose the tile rotation tool will be.

It might perhaps be used in the future for making terrain tiles with distinguishable features seem less repeating, but right now there's not much useful you can do with it other than change the orientation of the road tiles.

Hope that helps


And I forgot to mention this earlier, but the trees that are used in the test map are of a rather superfluous nature, having much higher detail than what's really needed. Don't place too many of these, or your computer might slow down to a halt (especially if yours is as slow as mine...).

[Aridas]

About painting, it's about mismatched, or "wrong" looking blending, or just something that looks nothing like what was probably intended (painting some mountains, i found the corners to sometimes end up as nothing but a square-ish gradient)

for positioning and rotating, I meant that it's awkward, and sometimes doesn't go when you move it. that may be a problem with the program itself, but I found it either hard to get something moving/rotating, or it went too fast once it was going.

as for the roads, that's what I said was going to be the problem. I don't think they'll end up looking too natural if they always seem to have to follow some set design. I was hoping i'd be able to avoid a system like that, or at least have a more complex tile system with more potential for how the roads/paths will move, not always quite straight and not always making a 45 degree turn. Back in the day I was playing with a map editor that the road had points where it could be moved, stretched, shrunk, and such, and you could add/remove points along the road... doing such would align the track with the next points. That'd probably be a hassle, but... It's all I can think of.

aaaaaaand, that's it for me.

[tkg]

About painting, it's about mismatched, or "wrong" looking blending, or just something that looks nothing like what was probably intended (painting some mountains, i found the corners to sometimes end up as nothing but a square-ish gradient)

Yeah, I'm aware of those ugly corners - for some reason the fade texture fails to load for those particular tiles. Not that I'm sure what exactly causes this to happen, though...

for positioning and rotating, I meant that it's awkward, and sometimes doesn't go when you move it. that may be a problem with the program itself, but I found it either hard to get something moving/rotating, or it went too fast once it was going.

Hmmm... strange. Could it be that the camera is facing too parallel to the axis set plane, perhaps? For instance, when the currently activated axis set is ZX, you should stay a bit above the selected object(s). Since there is no 3D visualization of the plane/axes yet, it can be a bit hard to know just where the plane goes.

as for the roads, that's what I said was going to be the problem. I don't think they'll end up looking too natural if they always seem to have to follow some set design. I was hoping i'd be able to avoid a system like that, or at least have a more complex tile system with more potential for how the roads/paths will move, not always quite straight and not always making a 45 degree turn. Back in the day I was playing with a map editor that the road had points where it could be moved, stretched, shrunk, and such, and you could add/remove points along the road... doing such would align the track with the next points. That'd probably be a hassle, but... It's all I can think of.

Well, as I said, as long as the tiles join up at the edges, it's all good - it doesn't really have to be in the centre of the edge, after all (this is only a requirement if you want it to work properly with the tile connection tool). It may still not be as flexible as the solution you mentioned, but you just gave me an idea; we don't necessarily have to use tiles for creating roads and such either - I had already planned a function for static objects which makes them "hug the terrain", so to speak, so the roads could just as well be separate objects put on top of the ground instead, somewhat like in Operation FlashPoint. How does that sound?

aaaaaaand, that's it for me.

Thanks for your help so far - feel free to report on any other issues you might encounter as well.

[Aridas]

Bleh... I still wish for roads with path-like points that I can drag. Right now it seems it's either going to be roads reminiscent of 2D RPGs, or something harder that requires more work by everyone, apparently x_x

[tkg]

Bleh... I still wish for roads with path-like points that I can drag. Right now it seems it's either going to be roads reminiscent of 2D RPGs, or something harder that requires more work by everyone, apparently x_x

I will probably add in some sort of function later on for making rule-based object placement, but I'm not certain yet whether it will be completely dynamic or not, though.

[tkg]

Just a little update on the editor: I've been pretty hard at coding since I released the last version, but even still, the next release won't be due until January as I will be gone for most of the remainder of the year. I'm sure it can wait anyhow

I should have mentioned this earlier, but we're obviously going to need a few concept artists, to be able to visualize the (more or less) zany ideas we come up with. Also, we're still looking for modellers... my "programmer's art" simply won't cut in the long run, you hear

As always, if you're interested in any of the positions above (or some other aspects of game development for that matter), please let me know. Thanks!

[tkg]

Unearthing this thread for another crude and unjustified attempt at drawing people into the project

Hmmm... come to speak of it, is it considered bad practice to bump a thread periodically to prevent it from dropping to the next page (where it will hardly ever be seen)? The reason why I'm asking this is because some people may not actually be around to see the thread before it "gets buried deep down", so to speak - and I simply haven't come up with any better idea to make the aforementioned people know of this project without asking them directly, which I reckon would count as spamming of sorts... can someone please shed some light on this?


EDIT: Okay, I had a look at the forum rules again, and it is indeed considered bad. I guess I should've checked up on those first before even thinking of typing this post

However, to make up for this I'll just ask instead: For those of you who are currently enlisted over at Basecamp, what times would suit you the best if I were to set up a weekly schedule for project-related chats, and how often (every day of the week, just mon-wed-fri, etc.)? Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

[Aridas]

I'm flexible as long as there's some kind of advance notice like usual, or it stays constant. I can work it into anything.

[tkg]

Glad to hear it, Aridas.
Well, I was thinking that important chats could still be announced just like before, and that the regularly scheduled ones would come in addition to that (ruling out those that land on the same days as the more important chats, of course). The regular ones will act more like casual chats, without any specific theme or attendancy requirements (as if there ever was any ), but still mostly concentrating on discussions about the project.

[Tapewolf]

However, to make up for this I'll just ask instead: For those of you who are currently enlisted over at Basecamp, what times would suit you the best if I were to set up a weekly schedule for project-related chats, and how often (every day of the week, just mon-wed-fri, etc.)? Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Since they tend to roll over midnight for me, Friday is probably most convenient here as I don't have to go to work the following morning.  How's work proceeding on the engine, by the way?

[tkg]

Since they tend to roll over midnight for me, Friday is probably most convenient here as I don't have to go to work the following morning.

I guess we don't really have to make the chats start as late in the evening as we did before - if it's okay for all parties, we could for instance just move them one or two hours earlier (18-19:00 GMT), since the session is likely to last a few hours anyways.

How's work proceeding on the engine, by the way?

It's going fairly well, I'd say. I'm now nearly done with the basic form of dynamic objects, where you just put together a few bones and joints, slap some meshes in there to align with the bones, and you have a fully working physical body in the scene. Simulating real-time vegetation/creature growths, cutting off limbs (on creatures) and branches (on trees), as well as visual heart-beating and breathing on characters are just a few ways I can think of to use it right now, but I'm sure there are others </advertisement>

Actually, this reminds me of what I would like to discuss in the next chat session... on how realistic and detailed we want this game to be in the end (which of course in turn decides whether it will run on all machines, or any but the top-notch).

EDIT: And Aridas, the dynamical placement of roads you asked for earlier can be done with the exact same system - only linked to a static object instead. This is something I actually realized just a week ago or so, although it should've been quite obvious from the start, heh.

[Aridas]

Woohoo! cutting off limbs! I'm all for that, as long as nobody gets hurt! >.>

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

EDIT: Okay, I had a look at the forum rules again, and it is indeed considered bad. I guess I should've checked up on those first before even thinking of typing this post

We're flexible. If there's content actually going on, we're willing to let it slide. If you're the only one posting, we're less willing to turn a blind eye to it.

Since there's a whole bunch of people here interested, go ahead and bump. We kinda prefer it if you apply content, however, rather than just bumping.

"Here's the new version" is acceptable. "I haven't done anything for the last month and a half, and nobody asked after it, so I'm bumping it anyway" probably isn't. :-)

HTH, HAND...

[Tapewolf]

I guess we don't really have to make the chats start as late in the evening as we did before - if it's okay for all parties, we could for instance just move them one or two hours earlier (18-19:00 GMT), since the session is likely to last a few hours anyways.

Weekdays I'm often on the way home during that time so it's got to be 1900 or later..

Actually, this reminds me of what I would like to discuss in the next chat session... on how realistic and detailed we want this game to be in the end (which of course in turn decides whether it will run on all machines, or any but the top-notch).

This is my take: my machine will be SIX in April.  It comprises a 1GHz CPU with 1GB of memory and a graphics card (currently a GeForce 6200).  While I'm intending to upgrade to a 64-bit system for Linux, it's not a priority because that CPU still does everything I need so far and besides, changing the motherboard will destroy Windows utterly (and also invalidate my XP license into the bargain, I might add).

Obviously I have a vested interest in it running on this machine, at least for now.  I'm not exactly expecting it to run at 150fps but IMHO, if it runs at less than 10 there's a problem with the engine.

[Aridas]

Perhaps we could work a little at both, no? Get it to look nice AND run smooth?

[Little_Dragon]

Woohoo! cutting off limbs! I'm all for that, as long as nobody gets hurt! >.>

'Tis but a scratch ....

[Turnsky]

i see the larger problem is actually the RPG "system" itself (like d20, GURPS, or various other systems that i can't think of right now)
Elder scrolls, particularly the latter two morrowind and oblivion had the "the more you use it, the more you learn"

the Fallout Series to me had the most unique system of all the "SPECIAL" system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECIAL_System
it's a tad more easier to deal with.. also note that it's based on GURPS

(i used this to show people without a working knowledge of the larger RPG systems in use, such as myself)

as for setting, might i suggest something a little bit outside of DMFA's Canon?.. it might give you a bit of wriggle room, and creative license without Amber having to say that the RPG isn't canon.

i think the main problem for you is to decide whether it'll be 1st or 3rd person, or isometric.  (Elder Scrolls, Neverwinter nights, and fallout respectively.)

[Aridas]

You're a bit late to make any suggestions for the setting, not that it mattered

[Turnsky]

You're a bit late to make any suggestions for the setting, not that it mattered

given it's 8 pages long, i'm not terribly surprised, i just couldn't be bothered reading it all, so i decided to put my two cents in regardless. 

[Aridas]

Eh, actually we do most of the stuff behind the scenes now

<.< >.>

And you can only see most of it if you joooooin usssssss

[Turnsky]

Eh, actually we do most of the stuff behind the scenes now

<.< >.>

And you can only see most of it if you joooooin usssssss

Join you in what capacity? 

[tkg]

(...)
"Here's the new version" is acceptable. "I haven't done anything for the last month and a half, and nobody asked after it, so I'm bumping it anyway" probably isn't. :-)

Yeah, sounds reasonable. I guess I just need a whack with the 'common sense' stick every once in a while

Obviously I have a vested interest in it running on this machine, at least for now.  I'm not exactly expecting it to run at 150fps but IMHO, if it runs at less than 10 there's a problem with the engine.

You should definitely be able to set the detail level in the engine to make the graphics part less demanding, but I'm not sure yet how much hidden processing (i.e. stuff happening elsewhere in the world and such) there's going to be... it is, however, likely to be configurable to a degree as well.

Join you in what capacity? 

Well, we are still on the look-out for some modellers and concept artists, but other professions may also be welcome... feel free to ask if you're interested