Boring canon questions: Demons and cities?

[127.0.0.2]

Hi everyone,

I'm kinda researching this for a story I'm kinda trying to write (just as an explanation, I'm not usually that obsessive over minuscule details).

For the longest time of the comic, I've kinda assumed, Zinvth was a city mainly inhabited - or at least founded by - demons. Hence the name. However, Demo 101 says that demons don't actually build cities. Which brings my current plot concept to a screeching halt. The wiki tries to solve the contradiction by saying, it's more a generally Creature-based city, and not specific to demons. But then again, we have Kria as the apparent head of the city... @.@

My other question would be about the general technology level of Furrae. There is said that the general development of technology has been slowed down by magic and powerful creatures. Still, scenes like in the shopping mall seem to show modern-day metropoles. So, can we assume, technology (at least in large, guarded cities) has more or less reached real world level?

So, to be able to sleep sound again, I wanted to ask you if there is maybe some new, incredibly obscure information from some of your ultra-secret places that would shine more light into that? Or am I allowed to make stuff up?

In any way, thanks in advance

[AmigaDragon]

The available level of (plain, not mixed with magic) technology may be equal with ours, but perhaps not widespread in use. Magic may be in equal or greater use.

[Shachza]

Demons may not have built Zinvth, but they could certainly "use" an existing city.



Or if you wanted to make things a bit more mundane, you could see it as Zinvth being a major demon gathering place; perhaps like a public Forum.  Demons are powerful and have much to offer those willing to pay the right price.  You'd quickly get those waiting for an audience needing places to stay, so visitors start building houses and things.  Now you've got a semi-permanent population who need to be fed and entertained.  These services could also be provided by other visitors.

Slowly you'd get a legitimate city as the travelers settled down because it's easier to just stay.  It just happens to be a city with tons of demons already set up in a position to rule.

[iceick]

Zinvth was probably built by other creatures or beings, and the demons just used force to take it over (like the outpost in Abel's story).

As for tecnology, the only tecnology that is not current, is weapon tecnology (Asside from Jyrass' secret lab). This can actually be proven here.

[Tapewolf]

For the longest time of the comic, I've kinda assumed, Zinvth was a city mainly inhabited - or at least founded by - demons. Hence the name. However, Demo 101 says that demons don't actually build cities. Which brings my current plot concept to a screeching halt. The wiki tries to solve the contradiction by saying, it's more a generally Creature-based city, and not specific to demons. But then again, we have Kria as the apparent head of the city... @.@

What often happens is that Creatures will make some kind of pact whereby they protect a city or town in exchange for some service or position of power.  The entry for Angels elaborates on this and with Zinvth as a guide, Demons are also keen on this.

My other question would be about the general technology level of Furrae. There is said that the general development of technology has been slowed down by magic and powerful creatures. Still, scenes like in the shopping mall seem to show modern-day metropoles. So, can we assume, technology (at least in large, guarded cities) has more or less reached real world level?

Some of this is a case of magic being used as a replacement for technology, e.g. magical foundries for aluminium and glass etc.
Which time period are you thinking of?  Present-day or past?

So, to be able to sleep sound again, I wanted to ask you if there is maybe some new, incredibly obscure information from some of your ultra-secret places that would shine more light into that? Or am I allowed to make stuff up?

No-one can stop you from making stuff up, but the real trick is to do it in a plausible way that doesn't obviously break canon.

[127.0.0.2]

Thanks much for the replies! I've got some ideas how to get out of my dead end now

Or if you wanted to make things a bit more mundane, you could see it as Zinvth being a major demon gathering place; perhaps like a public Forum.  Demons are powerful and have much to offer those willing to pay the right price.  You'd quickly get those waiting for an audience needing places to stay, so visitors start building houses and things.  Now you've got a semi-permanent population who need to be fed and entertained.  These services could also be provided by other visitors.

Slowly you'd get a legitimate city as the travelers settled down because it's easier to just stay.  It just happens to be a city with tons of demons already set up in a position to rule.

That idea sounds actually pretty cool.

Some of this is a case of magic being used as a replacement for technology, e.g. magical foundries for aluminium and glass etc.
Which time period are you thinking of?  Present-day or past?

I was thinking of present day. But yeah, I forgot the comic with the plane and othere things

No-one can stop you from making stuff up, but the real trick is to do it in a plausible way that doesn't obviously break canon.

That is exactly what I'm trying to do

[Amber Williams]

Zinvth started off as an unclaimed settlement.  It was only made into a city due to the joint efforts of a Mythos and Demon.  The Mythos side handled the actual building trade routes, establishing a system, and working things into the city it is today. The Demon side handled the kicking the snot out of anyone who tried to mess with them.

There are a few cities that are maintained by Demons...but none of them were actually built up from the start by them. Demons in general don't really care for such things and instead are more likely to found a village or city by the mafia approach of "you pay me tribute, I keep you all safe".

As for Kria. She herself isn't the head of the city, but she is high up on the rankings because as many people have figured out, she is from the family of Demons that helped found Zinvth.

[Mao]

Zinvth started off as an unclaimed settlement.  It was only made into a city due to the joint efforts of a Mythos and Demon.  The Mythos side handled the actual building trade routes, establishing a system, and working things into the city it is today. The Demon side handled the kicking the snot out of anyone who tried to mess with them.

I really enjoy the Demon race.  I can relate to them so much better than the other races.

[Scrap Fish]

Demons are also keen on this.

For those that prefer to display their powers political, not physical.

Some of this is a case of magic being used as a replacement for technology, e.g. magical foundries for aluminium and glass etc.

Building fictional technology base with magic is like writing an alternate history where humans have no arms. It's rather difficult. First, magic might replace some technologies entirely, while in other times, it might just modify them.
For example, the aforemention plane. It could have been replaced entirely, with say, magic carpets that can take you where you want. Or, it could have been modified with say, magic keeping it aloft instead of the wings. Or it could have just been a purely technological effort by beings.
Thing is: magic has limits. (What page was it where Abel talks about Cubi and cloth manufacturing?) So, it takes a lot of power to magic an airliner aloft, and is thereby inefficient. On a smaller scale, (gryphon-carts) magic may still be a viable replacement for tech. Problem is, when is the limit of replacement for each individual piece of tech?

(hint:it's probably not worth trying too hard to find out.)

[LionHeart]

For an example of a world where magic effectively is a tech base, I recommend Harry Turtledove's The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump.

Harry Turtledove creates a very believable world (and it's funny, too).

[Shachza]

For an example of a world where magic effectively is a tech base, I recommend Harry Turtledove's The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump.

Harry Turtledove creates a very believable world (and it's funny, too).

Or White Wolf's Exalted game setting.  Takes place in the 2nd (some argue 3rd) age of man following a fall from the 1st age's wonderous magitech society.  They altered the underlying fabric of the entire world at least once during the 1st age...   

[Rakyth]

As for lifting an airliner with magic, all one has to do is keep the air rushing past its wings for lift, and an air current to push it. That being said, with much easier alternatives like teleportation... Would you want to?

[iceick]

Of course, the planes there did have engines. If it was magic based, they wouldn't need them.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Of course, the planes there did have engines. If it was magic based, they wouldn't need them.

Unless the engines are run by magic. Makes the plane much lighter, since it doesn't have to lift all that fuel, and the engine itself can probably be a lot lighter for the same amount of push...

but we're drifting a little.

[127.0.0.2]

Zinvth started off as an unclaimed settlement.  It was only made into a city due to the joint efforts of a Mythos and Demon.  The Mythos side handled the actual building trade routes, establishing a system, and working things into the city it is today. The Demon side handled the kicking the snot out of anyone who tried to mess with them.

That makes actually sense. I wonder if we'll ever get to know something about the Mythos in the comic, but I guess we'll see soon enough.

As for lifting an airliner with magic, all one has to do is keep the air rushing past its wings for lift, and an air current to push it. That being said, with much easier alternatives like teleportation... Would you want to?

In addition to what has been said there can also be "parallel development". Beings in general and probably the people who have developed planes in particular likely had not much access to magic. But with the abundance of wings in Furrae, it's understandable you wouldn't want to be the only race to stay on the ground. Well, at least they had more subjects to study aerodynamics from than we have

[Anker Steadfast]

Zinvth started off as an unclaimed settlement.  It was only made into a city due to the joint efforts of a Mythos and Demon.  The Mythos side handled the actual building trade routes, establishing a system, and working things into the city it is today. The Demon side handled the kicking the snot out of anyone who tried to mess with them.

Hah, I can just see how that could happen.

*Demon spots a Mythos building a house and gets curious*
Demon : "Hiya, whatcha doin' ?"
Mythos : "Buildin' a city"
Demon : "Bah, boring! Why would you do that?"
Mythos : "Muffins!!"
Demon : "Keen!"
Demon : "Can i have one?"
Mythos : "Nope."
Demon : "Aww, why not ?"
Mythos : "Because the farmers are being harassed and can't deliver their goods to the city"
Mythos : "Oh, if only someone could solve that problem .."
Demon : "huh?"
Mythos : ".. with violence .."
Demon : "uhm"
Mythos : ".. proving how powerful they are!"
Demon : "oh .. OH! - ME, i can do that! Me me me me"
Mythos : "Very well, the farms are to the south"
*the Demon dashes off, lots of violence happens, and then the Demon returns*
Demon : "I did it, I did it - Can i has Muffins now?"
Mythos : "Sure, give the baker this note from me."
Demon : *look suspiciously at the note* "But ..  paper tastes bad!"
Mythos : "On the note I have written - Give this demon some muffins."
Demon : "Allright!"
*the Demon runs off to the baker*
Baker : "Hello there, how can i help you ?"
Demon : "Muffins!"
*the Demon hands the Baker the note*
*on the note it says : Tell the demon you are out of firewood because of bandits in the woods - Mythos"
Baker : "Alas, If only I could, but i am out of firewood for me oven!"
Demon : "So?"
Baker : "I cannot bake muffins if the oven isn't hot, I need more wood."
Demon : "Well, don't just stand there, go get some wood!"
Balas : "I cannot, for the forest is full of nasty bandits - Oh woe is me!"
Demon : "Pfeh, bandits are weak, just hit 'em and they run."
Baker : "Alas, I cannot leave my bakery, but if someone strong would chase the bandit away.."
Demon : *ears perk up* "Go on"
Baker : "Why, I could get my wood and make lots of muffins."
Demon : "Really?"
Baker : "Oh yes, I might even have a reward for someone like that."
Demon : "Oh. Oh. Oh - What sort of reward?"
Baker : "welll .... how does a right fresh Meat Pie, still steaming hot, right out of the oven sound?"
Demon : "MEATPIE!!!"
*the Demon runs off and soon the forest is VERY Bandit free*
Demon : "I did it, I did it, I dit it!"
Baker : "Aye, you did lass, and here's your reward!"
*the Demon watches gleefully as the Baker takes a fresh Meat Pie out of the oven*
Baker : "Say, such a helpful demon such as you might need a rest after all this slaying."
Demon : *nodding eagerly* "Oh yes!"
Baker : "Take this note to the Mythos, he might have a good idea for that."
Demon : *slumps* "bah .. more paper .. pfeh"

And so it goes - Said Demon is stil doing sidequests in Zvinth to this very day!

And who said all Demons are smart ?
And to beware dealing with Demons ?

It's the Mythos you gotta look out for.  

[127.0.0.2]

I don't think Kria would be very proud to show off that part of their family heritage 

[Anker Steadfast]

Are you kidding ?
Demons love a good laugh, especially if it's on someone elses account.  

Besides, we know she has some trouble with the Amulet - Wings - Jacket department herself.  

Edit :
Finally found the strip with Kria and her ... jacket problems.

[Anker Steadfast]

I has killed the thread !   

[iceick]

Are you kidding ?
Demons love a good laugh, especially if it's on someone elses account. 

Besides, we know she has some trouble with the Amulet - Wings - Jacket department herself. 

Edit :
Finally found the strip with Kria and her ... jacket problems.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Kria was laughing when she told her employer about the jacket. (Or at least about Lorenda's miniature wings)