12-15-2006 Bad day Dan

[Izkata]

3.) Wildy

Let's move on.

....I think this one would turn out far better than you're giving it credit for....
Despite the current semi-animosity towards each other, Wildy is very practical and down-to-earth.  She already regrets the book, and her current situation with Jyrras, and wants to find a way to make it right.  As for Jyrras going to her - he may well think of the other outcomes, and realize that Wildy was at least honest and open about her having done him wrong, and unlikely to be biased, being as realistic as she is.

[e_voyager]

Actually, I think there's a better one...

The ACME Clue by Four!

Yes, my friends. This is for those people who just can't get a clue! When their head is thicker than a brick wall, and everything short of a blunt object just doesn't penetrate, then may need this 3' long piece of wood, with a handle lovingly carved into one end, and a convenient target on the other end, looking not unlike a painted Cricket paddle.

Order yours today!

i ordered an acme clue by four almost an hour ago. six second delivery my foot. " did you put down a return address?" uhmmm. Six acme Anvils lens in rapes succession land on e and a  arrives in a package with a apology. " dear consumer we are sorry that our packager too so long to reach you bell accept this. complimentary 12 pack of anvils as our apology. " wait a second i only got 6. " starts to write a note to the other six falls on him. tears up the note. " never mind."

[Tapewolf]

In the immediate term (i.e. Dan's Alexsi act) it could have been worse, since Jyrras has now left the building.  The longer term impact is going to be a big problem.  Possibly the best approach is for Dan to visit Jyrras and tell him about the Alexsi act.  That would (A) stop Jyrras from thinking Alexsi is a racist and (B) Tell Jyrras that Dan is racist against his own race (i.e. he has problems as well as Jyrras).  It's gonna be tough on Jyrras when he realises that he really has confessed his crush on Dan to Dan in person, but that might disarm him over the other issue (or the Alexsi issue might disarm him over the gay-for-Dan issue).

Of course if Jyrras approaches Abel, Abel knows about Jyrras' crush on Dan, Dan's racism towards 'cubi and the Alexsi-Merlitz problem.  He might be able to smooth things over.

Hopefully this will be resolved relatively quickly - much as I like drama, smouldering long-lived resentment between characters would be a bit of a downer.

[MT Hazard]

There is another solution. after the bar closes for the night/alexsi returns, dan (still transformed) visits Jyrus dragging Abel along, before Jyrras can throw them out Dan gets Abel to turn him back (hopefully in Dans clothes) in front of Jyrras. The shock should give Dan a few minutes to explain.

At the very least Jyrras wouldn't hate Alexsi.


The above is not a prediction

Maturity is sometimes about acknowledging your failings not necessary having less of them.

[ShiningShadow]

There is another solution. after the bar closes for the night/alexsi returns, dan (still transformed) visits Jyrus dragging Abel along, before Jyrras can throw them out Dan gets Abel to turn him back (hopefully in Dans clothes) in front of Jyrras. The shock should give Dan a few minutes to explain.

At the very least Jyrras wouldn't hate Alexsi.


The above is not a prediction

Or unless when Abel dispel the spell and Dan will explain his actions to Jy-Jy and they talk for hours after everything smooth over then *BAM!* the whole conversation was done when Dan was naked  .

Maturity is sometimes about acknowledging your failings not necessary having less of them.

[secondwolf]

Just a quick question: As Dan is a cubi and cubi can feed upon the emotions of those near them, then could it not be possible that Dan subconciously fed upon Jyrra's emotions in the past?

Taking that one step further, Dan might be subconciously unhappy that Abel is stealing his meals

[Alondro]

*Charline chuckles*  I still can't believe Dan thinks Abel and Fa'lina are plotting something against him and his friends.  Silly boy.  Still, it's quite advantageous to certain parties that he doesn't realize who's really pulling the strings.   

[MT Hazard]

Or unless when Abel dispel the spell and Dan will explain his actions to Jy-Jy and they talk for hours after everything smooth over then *BAM!* the whole conversation was done when Dan was naked  .

More scaring characters for life?

[superluser]

Despite the current semi-animosity towards each other, Wildy is very practical and down-to-earth.  She already regrets the book, and her current situation with Jyrras, and wants to find a way to make it right.  As for Jyrras going to her - he may well think of the other outcomes, and realize that Wildy was at least honest and open about her having done him wrong, and unlikely to be biased, being as realistic as she is.

Much as I hate to admit it, you may be right.  Wildy just strikes me as insensitive (q.v. 201), but Jyrras might seek her out due to lack of suitable people to talk to.  The only flaw here is that there are others that Jyrras might seek out first who could not help him (Lorenda, Azlan, the basement rats) who would seem like possible better choices.

Anyways, with Wildy, I suspect that she would drag Jyrras down to Dan, and sit there to make sure that Jyrras expresses his feelings.  It could turn out a lot like the Abel theory.  (Hmmm, I wonder if Wildy has a patch to hide her wings?)

In the immediate term (i.e. Dan's Alexsi act) it could have been worse, since Jyrras has now left the building.  The longer term impact is going to be a big problem.  Possibly the best approach is for Dan to visit Jyrras and tell him about the Alexsi act.  That would (A) stop Jyrras from thinking Alexsi is a racist and (B) Tell Jyrras that Dan is racist against his own race (i.e. he has problems as well as Jyrras).

I don't know.  The main problem with that is that if Jyrras finds out that Dan said those things without first getting a context, he's going to assume that Dan is a racist.  The things that he said to Danlexsi would still stand, and since he's still hot over it, he would probably tell Dan to ``stay the hell away from me!''

Hopefully this will be resolved relatively quickly - much as I like drama, smouldering long-lived resentment between characters would be a bit of a downer.

QFT.

There is another solution. after the bar closes for the night/alexsi returns, dan (still transformed) visits Jyrus dragging Abel along, before Jyrras can throw them out Dan gets Abel to turn him back (hopefully in Dans clothes) in front of Jyrras.

Funny as this would be, I don't like the idea of having people being moved around like chess pieces.  It would forestall reasoned discussion and have all the grace and subtlety of a clue-by-four.

Just a quick question: As Dan is a cubi and cubi can feed upon the emotions of those near them, then could it not be possible that Dan subconciously fed upon Jyrra's emotions in the past?

Taking that one step further, Dan might be subconciously unhappy that Abel is stealing his meals

I think it's more unlikely that Dan *hasn't* been feeding on such emotoins.  It sounds like the sort of thing you can't control.

I don't think that Dan and Abel feed on the same emotions, though.  Dan feeds on pain (possibly among others), while Abel feeds on...wasn't it fear?  Would explain why he wants others to fear him.

[rt]

  oh dear this is a whole new level of fail 

Part of me is thinking that Abel's dislike of shape changing comes from first hand experiance, or witnessing similar fiascos like this in his life.

*Picks up the wooden bat, with the word "Motivation" crossed out and the word FAIL put in it's place*

Actually, I think there's a better one...
The ACME Clue by Four!

I'm partial to the Clue Bat (TM) here .. all the fun of a Clue by Four, with a convient bat handle to club in the clues with.

[Tapewolf]

I don't think that Dan and Abel feed on the same emotions, though.  Dan feeds on pain (possibly among others), while Abel feeds on...wasn't it fear?  Would explain why he wants others to fear him.

Abel's favourite is confusion, but as I recall from Amber it's not an either-or thing, nor does he work 24/7 to try and get more confusion, it just happens to be his favourite 'food'.  I'll have to sift through my archive from The Nice when I get home.

My understanding is this:  Any given 'cubi can feed on all or most emotions, but find some of them nicer (more wholesome?  easier to metabolise?) than others. 

[superluser]

My understanding is this:  Any given 'cubi can feed on all or most emotions, but find some of them nicer (more wholesome?  easier to metabolise?) than others.

It certainly appears to be that `cubi can feed on a variety of emotions (q.v. #528), but there are some strong suggestions that there are some emotions that are toxic or non-nutritive (q.v. #525, but see also nos. 493, 524, 552, 670).

[Landon_Fox]

Breaking.   Webster has updated their dictionary.



Hmm.  I can actually sympathize with Dan because I'm gay.  All of us have had to deal with rabid anti-gay religious types.  It's an open secret that just about all of them are gay, know they are gay, and are repressing it.  It's usually because it scares the [expletive deleted] out of them.  This causes some rather neurotic behavior, from Fred Phelp's incessant litany of hatred to Ted Haggert's double life.

Daniel Ti'fiona is like one of those poor wretches who has been dragged out of the closet in a violent and undeniable manner.  A bit of neurotic behavior is to be expected.  At least Dan understands he has done a terrible thing.  That's more than can be said for some of the others.

On another note, it's very easy to say you're going to act like an angel (demon?) when you're sitting in a comfy chair behind your computer.  It's another to actually do so when you are in the heat of the situation.  Boot camp taught me that.  I dare say that half of the forum would be acting worse than Dan if they were in his shoes right now.  I know I would be hard pressed to do better.

Food for thought.

[superluser]

On another note, it's very easy to say you're going to act like an angel (demon?) when you're sitting in a comfy chair behind your computer.  It's another to actually do so when you are in the heat of the situation.  Boot camp taught me that.  I dare say that half of the forum would be acting worse than Dan if they were in his shoes right now.  I know I would be hard pressed to do better.

Well, I'm not saying that *I* would be acting better.  I'm saying that a feline incubus with nearly 25 years of experience as an adventurer in the land of Furrae, who has already fought innumerable foes, defeated Dark Pegasus, and come back from the dead might have picked up a thing or two about controlling emotions in the heat of battle.

I know that *I* would have started chuckling nervously to myself in between #720 and #721, and been unable to make a credibly sincere statement.

[Tapewolf]

It certainly appears to be that `cubi can feed on a variety of emotions (q.v. #528), but there are some strong suggestions that there are some emotions that are toxic or non-nutritive (q.v. #525, but see also nos. 493, 524, 552, 670).

Hmm, I'm not entirely convinced with the toxic part.  Of the strips you've listed, Ink finds joy disagreeable (552), and says that Dan was 'negative on shock' (525).
I'm not sure but I suspect he meant Dan finds shock non-nutritive rather than causing something akin to an allergic reaction.  In the summary he doesn't say "avoid ?? as it's bad for you".  In 670, Abel is trying to scramble Dan's mind so I'm not sure it's actually the absorption of an emotion that Dan can't digest, in so much as he's being distracted by an out-of-context emotion.  I'm not sure what you were referring to from 524 and 493..

I'm gonna update the 'cubi entry on the Wiki to cover this though.

[GabrielsThoughts]

Danielle: that's not what I meant... I'm going to Kill Abel for what he did to you!

Jyrras: Never "Jyrras Griffen thunderzord power activate!"

Abel: he's got, a power and force that you never seen before...I can't remember the rest of the words so I'll stop singing now ....no one can ever take him down the power lies on his siiiiiiiiiide!

Fi: this is so stupid it's gay! I'm getting the hell out of here before I'm gay for Abel too.

[ShiningShadow]

Breaking.   Webster has updated their dictionary.



Hmm.  I can actually sympathize with Dan because I'm gay.  All of us have had to deal with rabid anti-gay religious types.  It's an open secret that just about all of them are gay, know they are gay, and are repressing it.  It's usually because it scares the [expletive deleted] out of them.  This causes some rather neurotic behavior, from Fred Phelp's incessant litany of hatred to Ted Haggert's double life.

Daniel Ti'fiona is like one of those poor wretches who has been dragged out of the closet in a violent and undeniable manner.  A bit of neurotic behavior is to be expected.  At least Dan understands he has done a terrible thing.  That's more than can be said for some of the others.

On another note, it's very easy to say you're going to act like an angel (demon?) when you're sitting in a comfy chair behind your computer.  It's another to actually do so when you are in the heat of the situation.  Boot camp taught me that.  I dare say that half of the forum would be acting worse than Dan if they were in his shoes right now.  I know I would be hard pressed to do better.

Food for thought.

Bravo for your post. If I was in Dan's shoes I will be very carefull on my words hence the term *be carefull what you think* your words and actions will come back and bite you on your ass. Dan should be more understanding but that's me here and I don't know what was Dan was thinking at the time he made that statement. If I was there with Jy-Jy and he said that to me I will say this *Do you think you should be talking to Abel about this if you feel uncomfortable about it I will go with you and explain things with Abel with you there.* But that's how I will solve this situation and me in this manner. And friendship on the line I will do everything in my powers to help my friends.

[Stygian]

I know that *I* would not become upset for perhaps more than a day if I turned out to be something else than I thought I was, so long as it was not a severely unbeneficial change. And it certainly isn't in Dan's case. See, that's what keeps annoying me; here is a legendary adventurer who's spent his whole life trying to fight the ways of these "monsters". But when he turns out to be one himself, he doesn't see the innumerable ways in how this may be exploited to not only further this cause, but to actually make it much more constructive, as he can now not only fight them with greater efficiency, but also prove that being an Incubus is not directly correlated to being an arrogant, inconsiderate and manipulative swine. Instead, he begins to doubt his very own self, as if somehow his mind had been invaded or switched, though it evidently isn't so and couldn't probably be under current circumstances.

Like Superluser said, he is not acting reasonably from that kind of viewpoint, and is way too emotional for credibility or liking in many situations. However, there is one thing that speaks to his advantage, and that is the actions perpetrated against him by one certain person whom I believe we should all loathe and despise, not for what she is but for how she is; Fa'Lina.

Still, though you also carry a point, Landon, I do not think that one can relate to the situation so easily. I know your meaning, yes, and I agree that he was "dragged out of the closet" in a rather bad manner, by abovementioned poodle. But the way he acts is reminiscent of a child, destructive and short-sighted. I cannot even closely relate to that, and would not utter my opinion on whether certain people from here would act better or worse either, since I do not know and cannot know.

[MT Hazard]

....But the way he acts is reminiscent of a child, destructive and short-sighted. I cannot even closely relate to that, and would not utter my opinion on whether certain people from here would act better or worse either, since I do not know and cannot know.

Iv been wondering for a while if you can put relative mental (compared to a being living 90-100 years) ages on the creature cast. My guesses so far are

Dan 17-18
Abel early twenties
Arry late twenties
Fa'lina 40-45
Kira early thirties

Also as I am being constantly informed, 'men mature slower mentally' (however I believe to grow up too quickly is worse)

How long does it take a creature with a 1500- 3000 year plus life span to mature?

Is Abel mature at 300? not really, Is arry at 400+?

How long does it take to change long held belief and feelings?

How do you come to terms with the fact you are your enemy ?

Crucial think to remember, this is all guesses and opinion about a fictional character. I believe that not even authors/artists know the true depths of some of their creations. Sometimes they take a life of their own. Have any writers ever found themselves thinking 'that character wouldn't think/do that ?'

While empathy is a wonderful human ability, it has its limits.

Of course I could be wrong.

[superluser]

Hmm, I'm not entirely convinced with the toxic part.  Of the strips you've listed, Ink finds joy disagreeable (552), and says that Dan was 'negative on shock' (525).
I'm not sure but I suspect he meant Dan finds shock non-nutritive rather than causing something akin to an allergic reaction.  In the summary he doesn't say "avoid ?? as it's bad for you".  In 670, Abel is trying to scramble Dan's mind so I'm not sure it's actually the absorption of an emotion that Dan can't digest, in so much as he's being distracted by an out-of-context emotion.  I'm not sure what you were referring to from 524 and 493..

I never said that I thought that some of the emotions were definitely toxic.  Non-nutritive is also a possibility.  We don't see Dr. Ink's whole spiel, as Dan interrupts him, so it's possible that he was going to (or did) describe some negatives--you would typically describe those after the positives.

493 suggests that some of the more peaceful `cubi are probably not inclined towards feeding on pain, and 524 suggests that some of the myths about `cubi feeding on particular emotions are not accurate.  Both of these are rather weak examples, I will admit.

Anyways, the question was whether or not Dan is unhappy about Abel stealing his meals.  Unlikely, since their primary sources of nourishment are different, and they some of these emotions may not even be of any use to them.

Also, it makes me wonder how emotional radiation would work.  Is it like a magnet, with field lines running out of it, or is it like a leaky milk jug, where the emotions spill out and stay put until something mops them up?  If the former, then eating someone else's dinner would be effectively impossible.  Just move a couple degrees clockwise, and you get a straight shot again.  If the latter, it's quantifiable, and you should be able to eat someone else's dinner.

I know that *I* would not become upset for perhaps more than a day if I turned out to be something else than I thought I was, so long as it was not a severely unbeneficial change.
...
he doesn't see the innumerable ways in how this may be exploited to not only further this cause, but to actually make it much more constructive, as he can now not only fight them with greater efficiency, but also prove that being an Incubus is not directly correlated to being an arrogant, inconsiderate and manipulative swine.

There are a few things in my heritage that have turned out to be rather difficult to deal with, even these many years hence.  I have a Burmese great aunt, which makes my opinion of SLORC rather negative, but I don't actually have any Burmese blood, so does that mean that I should be angry or not?

Some of these things can take a lifetime to resolve.  Some even longer.

It's also the case that while Dan knows the positive aspects of `cubi, he probably isn't inclined to promote himself as an emissary of the race, because the negatives are (for him) too great.

Like Superluser said, he is not acting reasonably from that kind of viewpoint, and is way too emotional for credibility or liking in many situations.

Well, that's actually not what I said.  I don't disagree, but what I said was that he should have learned to deal with his emotions during his adventures.  One of your party gets kidnapped or killed, and you're liable to do stupid things unless you control your emotions.  And his reactions were not credible for Alexsi.

[Alondro]

Hmm.  I can actually sympathize with Dan because I'm gay.  All of us have had to deal with rabid anti-gay religious types.  It's an open secret that just about all of them are gay, know they are gay, and are repressing it.  It's usually because it scares the [expletive deleted] out of them.  This causes some rather neurotic behavior, from Fred Phelp's incessant litany of hatred to Ted Haggert's double life.

Daniel Ti'fiona is like one of those poor wretches who has been dragged out of the closet in a violent and undeniable manner.  A bit of neurotic behavior is to be expected.  At least Dan understands he has done a terrible thing.  That's more than can be said for some of the others.

Food for thought.

Uhm... no.  Saying that all gay-bashers are secretly gay is just as illogical and unfounded as saying all gays are child molesters.  There is no evidence to support it except a few isolated instances where a person is trying to cover up by taking the opposite extreme... just as there are instances of gay child molesters.  Every validated statistical psychologocal survey has found the incidence of homosexuality in the general populace to be between 3 and 8 percent.  There are plenty of gay bashers who are just that:  heterosexuals who hate gays.

Also, Dan has shown no evidence of being gay.  He has not been 'dragged out of the closet' at all, if that's what you actually meant by that statement.  Instead, he's dealing with someone he's known coming out of the closet.   Rather than feeling bad that he's attacked Jyrras for being gay, he's actually more upset at making Alexsi look bad while trying to warn Jyrras that Abel isn't as nice as he seems.

We also can't be sure that Jyrras is 'gay' or 'bi'.  He seems to have a very pliable personality heavily dominated by strong female figures.  From his meetings with his family and flashbacks of torment by 'The Sisterhood', it's clear he's quite intimidated by them.  Not to mention, two of the females he's met are demons and either directly or indirectly threatened to eat him.  A lifetime of that can really warp one's mind.    

[Stygian]

...A lifetime of that can really warp one's mind.    

Stygian: Indeed... what say you, Charles? *his eyes gleam over a devilish sneer*

Oh, and by being "dragged out of the closet" I think Landon meant the cubi part. At least, that's how I interpreted and referred to it.

[thegayhare]

Shile I agree with you that not all gay bashers are gay I think you're missing the point here alandro

He was using that as an anology to dans position he wasn't saying Dan was gay but denying it and being forcably dragged out of the closet


he's saying dan is cubi and resistaning acknolaging that, which is being internalised as dan being cubiphobic, and hes' being forced to aknowlage that he's a creature.

Besides the whole thing with Jyrras admitting he has a crush on a guy isn't an issue

As Mis amber stated along time ago Homosexuality isn't a mojor issue on Furrea,  some of the cultures have problems with it but for the most part it's a non issue  so the trouble isn't a gay thing it's the whos of Jyrras's crushes thats the problem

[Alondro]

I re-read it a few times.  It's pretty vague in the context it was given, which is why I added 'if that's what you meant' since I'm not sure.  But as much of the rest of the previous paragraphs were on homosexuality, the interpretation of a statement used so soon afterward which is so heavily associated with sudden revelations of gayness does tend to be limited.  

Oh, and I'm pretty much warped beyond imagination already.  I spent a lifetime in the New Jersey Pine Barrens.  No one who goes there is ever really whole again...  Don't tell Charline, but she has no effect on me in reality!  

[Tapewolf]

Abel's favourite is confusion, but as I recall from Amber it's not an either-or thing, nor does he work 24/7 to try and get more confusion, it just happens to be his favourite 'food'.  I'll have to sift through my archive from The Nice when I get home.

Muhhhh... I know it's not that relevant anymore but I've spent hours querying my NICE archives and you're going to get what I've found, like it or not 

I haven't yet found a direct citation about how emotion absorption works although I SWEAR I read one, but I did find the one about Abel and confusion.

(Ref: dmfa_forum2540.htm in standard form, "11/4/05 - Jy thinks too loudly")

Posted by Amber Panyko (Member # 6308) on 11-03-2005 10:37 PM:

Posted by Slavkei (Member # 8571) on 11-03-2005 10:35 PM:

Posted by Amber Panyko (Member # 6308) on 11-03-2005 10:34 PM:
You guys are misunderstanding Abel's confusion trait.

If your favorite food is a steak, you arent going to be walking around all day plotting how to get a steak or shoving your face full of steaks. Abel might like confusion, but only when he particularly wants it. He's not going to spend every waking minute trying to wrangle as much confusion from everyone so much as you arent going to try to wrangle as much steak.

 
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!

Dang you gay dragon! Stop ruining my logics with your logics!

[Landon_Fox]

Also, Dan has shown no evidence of being gay.  He has not been 'dragged out of the closet' at all, if that's what you actually meant by that statement.  Instead, he's dealing with someone he's known coming out of the closet.   Rather than feeling bad that he's attacked Jyrras for being gay, he's actually more upset at making Alexsi look bad while trying to warn Jyrras that Abel isn't as nice as he seems.

To my knowledge Dan is not gay.  I am drawing the analogy because being a cubi is easy to hide, much like being gay.  But it hurts to have to hide it.  And if you hate being it, it REALLY hurts.

I am drawing this analogy to explain why Dan is acting the way he is acting, and to suggest a reasonable course of action that he could carry out to solve it.

[HealingBlight]

Might I comment on her choice of testcard in her rant? This one would be far better:


Though I fear the reference may be lost on those not of UK or Irish origins.

[Tapewolf]

Might I comment on her choice of testcard in her rant? This one would be far better:

[Dies laughing]

[KarlOmega1]

Dan Fails...FATALITY!!! *sorry, just had to say it*

[thegayhare]

Dan Fails...FATALITY!!! *sorry, just had to say it*

No no no It's a FAILTALITY