2013/06/10 [DMFA #1408] The plot thickens.

[VAE]

Hmm. Zezzuva is probably right in the salient details (AKA Dan being part of a scheme to do *something* to the dragons) that said, I wonder how much of the whole commentary is coloured by personal dislike.
I still like how she makes exactly zero pretense of trying to persuade him - sort of "here's the information, either use it or go along and die, I couldn't care less"

[joshofspam]

Hmm. Zezzuva is probably right in the salient details (AKA Dan being part of a scheme to do *something* to the dragons) that said, I wonder how much of the whole commentary is coloured by personal dislike.
I still like how she makes exactly zero pretense of trying to persuade him - sort of "here's the information, either use it or go along and die, I couldn't care less"

Well to be fair, just because you have plans to use someone, doesn't mean you don't or won't care about them.

Then again, emotions are fickle things. They can (much like everything else) change over time. That also means someone else's view most likely will be different from others.

[Jasae Bushae]

welp Dan took it about as well as I expected.
Honestly. Either this was some plan to gauge his reaction or Zezzuva borders on moron when it comes to anticipating peoples reactions to what she says. ^^;

[FairWage22]

...This is actually pretty noteworthy.

Zezzuva has actually indicated some level of care by speaking with Dan despite claims to the contrary.

Not, of course, for his feelings, or those of anyone else, but for the fact that she actually bothered to tell things as they are.

Not everything is going to be sunshine and lollipops, and sometimes the cold hand of logic is needed to prove a point.

Well played.  Impressive, even.

[VAE]

Hmm. Zezzuva is probably right in the salient details (AKA Dan being part of a scheme to do *something* to the dragons) that said, I wonder how much of the whole commentary is coloured by personal dislike.
I still like how she makes exactly zero pretense of trying to persuade him - sort of "here's the information, either use it or go along and die, I couldn't care less"

Well to be fair, just because you have plans to use someone, doesn't mean you don't or won't care about them.

Then again, emotions are fickle things. They can (much like everything else) change over time. That also means someone else's view most likely will be different from others.

Agreed. Which is why I said salient details.

[Surzsha]

Daaw. I dunno about you guys but Dan looks cute being all pouty-faced while being told his mother's a horrendously terrible parent. Just makes you want to pinch his cheeks just to add insult to injury.

But in all honesty, just because Zezzuva is telling Dan all of this straight out, without any sugar coating, doesn't necessarily mean she means well. I can see that some of us here appreciate things to be told straight-up because we find the honesty well-meaning, but most times this is merely indifference and nothing more. As VAE said, "Here's the information. Either use it or go along and die. I couldn't care less."

THEN AGAIN, I'm not going to say that this is exactly what it is. Because if Zezzuva really doesn't care then why is she even bothering to tell Dan all of this in the first place? Is she just tired of his inexperience and wants to teach him a lesson for being so young and naive, is she wanting to put a wrench (or in this case a pin) in Destania's long-term plans, or is she actually wanting to at least try to help Dan grow as an individual by giving the information straight out since no one else seems to be doing it?

Maybe she's just telling him to see what happens. You know, out of curiosity and experimentation. That could also be a possibility.
[Edit: If I'm repeating what's been said in the previous page's thread, my apologies. I just caught up with that discussion]

[Tapewolf]

I love Zezzuva's last line there.  It makes me wonder if she is a high-functioning autistic or something, oblivious to Dan's distress.

It looks like Mink is going to have his hands full getting Dan back on track.  Hopefully he'll still be able to function at the meeting.

EDIT: Also, Fa'Lina allowed this to happen without intervention so it may be that this was the optimal path - it's possible that Dan wouldn't have taken it seriously if it was broken to him gently, after all.  I wonder if Dan brought Destania's book back with him?

[Nino]

I love Zezzuva's last line there.  It makes me wonder if she is a high-functioning autistic or something, oblivious to Dan's distress.

Haha, the only time I've ever heard 'high-functioning autistic' is when I read Chris-Chan describing himself as such. I'm pretty sure that's an outdated term, but that's a great point - I've thought about before how comic/video game/movie/book characters don't really have mental illnesses like autism or bipolar unless that episode/book/movie is either about that disorder or the disorder is somehow extremely central to the plot (see Silver Linings Playbook, which, as an aside, was excellent). It'd be interesting to know if this was a conscious choice or that this character is modeled after a more deadpan/apathetic personality that just has similarities to someone with autism. Or, it could even be a conscious choice by Zezzuva to act like this, and it may be exaggerated from what her base personality actually is.

The comment on how the extended life is warping Destania reminds me of the 'bag of sand' soul transfer thing that was in a 'Cubi letter. Dee's grains are leaking out...

edit: speaking of mental illnesses, if Destania 'can't love', maybe she's genuinely considered psychopathic. Since Zezzuva is clearly referring to the 'emotion' love, it makes me wonder if it's some sort of disorder where certain 'Cubi can't feel certain emotions (seems odd since 'Cubi are beings of emotions... some defect, maybe?). Dee certainly seemed to have felt strong emotional romantic need towards Aniz, so I don't know what that's all about.

[MT Hazard]

I think he took that very well, all things* considered.



* An already emotion person whose cubi heritage makes him more likely to get overly emotional, just being told his mother doesn't love them and is using them as a pawn, while already in a stressful ,unfamiliar situation.

[Tapewolf]

Haha, the only time I've ever heard 'high-functioning autistic' is when I read Chris-Chan describing himself as such. I'm pretty sure that's an outdated term,

Amusingly I was going to suggest Asperger's but that has recently been made an outmoded term, hence the fallback.  I'd be interested to know what term you are supposed to use these days...

The comment on how the extended life is warping Destania reminds me of the 'bag of sand' soul transfer thing that was in a 'Cubi letter. Dee's grains are leaking out...

Coincidentally, that's was Zezzuva's letter.

[Ghostwish]

Haven't been here in a while, but...

I've actually had a sneaking suspicion concerning this dreadful topic for some time now. Honestly, who the hell leaves their kid to go off on a campaign of hate and revenge? The very element of her mission leads credit to the conspiracy.

Honestly, I thought I was just being paranoid. But now Ye Old Tri-Wing(TM) is yakking about it....

[Eboreg]

@Tapewolf: As a high-functioning autistic myself I would hate to see a high-functioning autistic who is also a 'Cubi. I take several psychoactive medications to avoid letting my emotions take over me and make me flip out over some relatively minor occasion thus doing something I would later regret. I also am more susceptible to humor than anyone else causing a lot of annoyance all around. If I lived in Furrae and grew a pair of headwings, I would not take it very well and that would have nothing to do with racism.

[Jigsaw Forte]

To call Zezzuva autistic is an insult to autistics.

Her behavior is much more straight-up sociopathy / cranky old coot (y'know -- the one that suggests you find sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis) than anything defined by the DSM. She knows what she's doing -- she just doesn't CARE.

As she said, Dan's response is irrelevant to her, so she's not even trying.

[Amber Williams]

Zezzuva's reason for caring is fairly pragmatic I figure.  In that regardless of Dan personally, he's still a member of a fairly powerful clan that's teetering on some very uncertain things.  And him getting himself ker-killed by someone who up until then had not attended meetings for a few thousand years...simply doesn't have any benefit to it.  Zezzuva may not care about Dan's current emotional state, but she likely does care about his future physical state.  Him being dead benefits no one.  And him being dead due to what Zezzuva percieves as a plot by Destania, someone who Zezzuva has seen and who's antics she has heard of for thousands of years...to her seems like a bad idea.

[Jasae Bushae]

Ah, pragmatism since Dan and his mother represent an entire clan and one of the few that still have a clan leader.

Still, all evidence suggests her knowledge of Destania stops at the point when she retired, got married and dropped off the map to raise a family (even telling Alexsi of her past and familys sour point with dragons) with her only going on the warpath again when her husband was spirited off by a vengeful dragon who wanted to lure her out.

So despite at least appearing to be quite intelligent, Zezzuva is going by rather outdated information.

and im STILL convinced that this is a test since in such an emotional state, Dan will be more or less crippled for the rest of the meeting XD

[Risingcomet]

While its true that this encounter could cause him to falter during the meeting, don't rule out that Dan might consider contacting his grandmother for a few tips, not to mention the possibility of asking Cyra about his mother in the process.  Also hello all! New to posting in the forums, but long time lurker.

[killpurakat]

I think Zezzuva's statements are refreshing in this atmosphere. At least for us readers. 

BTW, just noticed Zezzuva's clothing and how revealing it really is.  She looks pretty hot for a gal who can tower above everyone else and pull off the goth look (if not the emo-tude).

[joshofspam]

You know, with all the talks about Destania and Zezzuva these couple of pages, I'm starting to imagen Destania giving a rant like Cave Johnson....

I am such a bad, bad person.

[KarlOmega1]

Well, at least he did the right thing by not trying to beat her up...emphasis on the word "Trying".

[mithril]

i've noticed a key point in Zezzuva's statement. "when last i saw her".
since that seems likely to have been before Destania met Edward, it seems likely that Zezzuva's conclusion about Destania's feelings for Dan is based on incomplete information.
from the scenes with Destania that we have seen post disappearance from lost lake, i think it fair to say that love of her family is one of the driving elements in her current plots.

[Tapewolf]

i've noticed a key point in Zezzuva's statement. "when last i saw her".
since that seems likely to have been before Destania met Edward, it seems likely that Zezzuva's conclusion about Destania's feelings for Dan is based on incomplete information.

Perhaps, but she is the spy clan.  It's conceivable she knows exactly what Destania is planning.

[Xan]

Hello, new to posting, been lurking now and then.

Though Zezzuva is a nice addition to the cast and her input is important to Dan, even if he likes or not.
But I don't think Dan wants to believe what other people say about his mother regardless who they are or how old they are, and he just wants to believe that they are all lies. How I gather this, is one part of it is why he thinks this way is his perception of mother and the other part is how Dan perceive himself, as Dan likes to see himself as an hero doing heroic deeds, like defeating the villain, slaying the monster, rescuing those in distress and saving the day. Most of all, heroes will do what ever it takes to save their loved ones, even if it from themselves, and if Dan believes what everyone have been telling him about his mother he would have to accept the fact that she not only a villain but also a monster, and he also has to accept at the possibility that Destania is beyond saving, beyond redemption. The hero fights the villains and slays the monsters, and Dan has very fond memories of his mother and loves her greatly, that much is given, and I believe its that very reason that meeting his own mother on opposing sides on the battlefield would be the very last thing in the world Dan would ever wanted to do in his life.

I think the day Dan finally accepts that his mom is a coldhearted evil manipulative psychopath, would probably be one of the saddest days of his life.

Dan might consider contacting his grandmother for a few tips, not to mention the possibility of asking Cyra about his mother in the process.

I'm not completely sure how the connection between the clan leader and clan member works, but I think it been established that Cyra hadn't talked with Destania anywhere from a few centuries to a few millennia, so its a good guess that Cyra is unaware of her daughter's current state of mind or her schemes. But I could be wrong. On a sidenote, I think that Dan might be a positive influence on Cyra.

[Tapewolf]

I'm not completely sure how the connection between the clan leader and clan member works, but I think it been established that Cyra hadn't talked with Destania anywhere from a few centuries to a few millennia, so its a good guess that Cyra is unaware of her daughter's current state of mind or her schemes. But I could be wrong.

It's possible that Cyra has been sending an avatar to the clan gatherings after Destania quit.  If so, she's probably had a conversation with Zezzuva similar to the one Dan has just had.

[joshofspam]

I'm not completely sure how the connection between the clan leader and clan member works, but I think it been established that Cyra hadn't talked with Destania anywhere from a few centuries to a few millennia, so its a good guess that Cyra is unaware of her daughter's current state of mind or her schemes. But I could be wrong.

It's possible that Cyra has been sending an avatar to the clan gatherings after Destania quit.  If so, she's probably had a conversation with Zezzuva similar to the one Dan has just had.

I suppose that is possible.

At the very least, Cyra would probably use different methods to interact with the outside world to fend of cabin fever, wherever she's hiding.Then again, being Destania's mother, she might suspect by her not trying to maintain contact with her and understand how her daughter thinks that her daughter might be up to something.

[ArchTeryx]

I'm an Aspie and I STILL think Zezzuva is as subtle as a sack of anvils.  There's being frank, there's being blunt, and then there's just  turning the screws.

In a way, though, she's actually making a sacrifice doing this for Dan, being leader of Clan Envy and all.  And as her clan are natural detectives, she would be a master at accumulating factual information, which would make her the strongest candidate for Connecting the Dots.  As Amber said, she thinks Dan getting himself killed because of some Game of Thrones Destiana is playing would be a Bad Thing for everyone, not least of all Dan himself.

So she infodumped all over him.  He may be pissed off now, but hopefully he'll come to realize she just did him a huge favor.  Awkwardly, with an unnecessary amount of trolling, but she just connected all the dots for him.

[Eboreg]

There's a lot of talk about the horror of Destania's plan but it actually reminds me of a scriptural verse, "It is by the wicked that the wicked are punished." The thing is, from what we've seen so far, Dragons are power-grubbing a**holes. They've tried to wipe out 1 or 2 species ('Cubi and possibly Weres) and probably intentionally wiped out another (Humans). The only similarities I can see between them is that they posed a threat to the Dragons' absolute dominance.

The 'Cubi's threat became apparent when Cyra killed M'Chek. Here you have someone who not only killed a very powerful dragon but also completely wrecked his domain in a matter of seconds. The dragons' response was to attempt kill every 'Cubi on the planet to prevent any other 'Cubi from doing this and they are all hell-bent on destroying Cyra's entire family except for only one solitary person who didn't grow up in dragon culture.

With the Were, well it's easy to see the threat they pose. They are capable of becoming immune to the spells of even a Fae much less a Dragon and are capable of striking back with rather impressive magic themselves. That could very easily provide a threat since Dragons are very much reliant on their magic for attack capabilities.

As for Humans, I see no reason they would be threatening.[/sarcasm] Not to mention the fact that Training Manual 31-210 is available to anyone who will do a decent internet search which, in my mind, is far worse than a bunch of disgruntled mages using fireballs.

I think JyCorp specials are going to pretty soon put Beings on the chopping block since ... well let's put it this way. You know how dragon skin is considered "impenetrable"? Well, here's a little thought experiment. Take a 2-inch thick plate of rolled homogenous steel. Now, take the medieval weapon of your choice and try to bust through it. Heck, even give some cracks with muzzle-loaders if you so wish. Not penetrating? Nothing at all? Okay, now take an M107 loaded with Raufoss rounds and try to punch a hole in it. Like a hot knife through butter eh?

You see where I'm getting at? Dee's planned genocide would actually prevent a much greater genocide. Doesn't mean I like her though.

Edit: a little correction

[Jigsaw Forte]

I'm not completely sure how the connection between the clan leader and clan member works, but I think it been established that Cyra hadn't talked with Destania anywhere from a few centuries to a few millennia, so its a good guess that Cyra is unaware of her daughter's current state of mind or her schemes. But I could be wrong.

It's possible that Cyra has been sending an avatar to the clan gatherings after Destania quit.  If so, she's probably had a conversation with Zezzuva similar to the one Dan has just had.

Why would she? Destania's barely been gone from SAIA more than a few decades at most, and these meetings are only once a century.

Besides, since Quoar's envoy only shows up once every millenia, she doesn't NEED to be there.

[Tapewolf]

Why would she? Destania's barely been gone more than a few decades at most,

On page 1391, Fa'Lina mentions that Destania refused to attend any subsequent meetings after Piflak insulted her.  We don't know when that was and it could have been any time within the last 6900 years or so.  Cyra is then in a position where she doesn't have a descendant to send to the meeting.  She has three options: Go in person, send a projection, or don't attend at all.

Besides, since Quoar's envoy only shows up once every millenia, she doesn't NEED to be there.

I'm not sure what the connection is.  We know that Quoar sends an envoy to the academy, but we don't know if the envoy attends any of the centennial meetings. He could be sending that envoy directly to Fa'Lina and ignoring the meetings entirely as a waste of time.

[Amber Williams]

On page 1391, Fa'Lina mentions that Destania refused to attend any subsequent meetings after Piflak insulted her.  We don't know when that was and it could have been any time within the last 6900 years or so.  Cyra is then in a position where she doesn't have a descendant to send to the meeting.  She has three options: Go in person, send a projection, or don't attend at all.

[spoiler]It was the third option.[/spoiler]

[Tapewolf]

[spoiler]It was the third option.[/spoiler]

I can't say I'm surprised, but it's nice to know...