2013/06/03 [DMFA #1406]: Subtle hinting

[killpurakat]

Didn't realize before how that long neck makes Zezzuva TALL. I wonder if she's the tallest clan leader?

And I also wonder how Dan will feel after this meeting is over with.

[Amber Williams]

I think Zezzuva is the tallest clan leader. Fa'lina is pretty tall but I think Zezzuva has a bit of height to her. 

[Jasonrevall]

Zezzuva is tall dark and stoic. Also interesting comment considering all the souls she's probably destroyed and afterlifes she's taken becoming what she is.

[mithril]

huh.. i wonder if Dan's answer to that question was just him being polite, or if his brief time at SAIA so far has already helped overcome some of his issues with being Cubi.

we saw him getting over the initial self identity phase thanks to Able, but he still seemed to rather dislike what he was before he arrived at SAIA for training and this meeting.

and now i can't wait for Friday and the rest of Zezzuva's point.. darn it.

[Wanderer]

Since we're talking about shapeshifters, and since clan leaders are actually something like 100 ft tall anyway, questions like "who's the tallest" seem a little... odd.

...She's pretty tall, though.

She needs to work on her diplomatic demeanor. You'd think a 15,000 year old Succubus would have enough experience to properly feign emotions and such. ...Unless this is all an act. Dammit, Amber, now we can never trust anything any of these people do to be real, ever again!

[joshofspam]

Interesting how she phrases that, there's a lot to give Dan a guilt trip over involving his heritage. Both of his clan and of his cubi one as well.

I'm sure a lot of cubi could blame his clan for the war. But it sounded like the dragons might have been working against the cubi before then. I wonder where she's going with this?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I think Zezzuva is the tallest clan leader. Fa'lina is pretty tall but I think Zezzuva has a bit of height to her. 

You think?


I mean, wouldn't you be the only person who would know for sure? ;-]

[MT Hazard]

The best response Dan could give would be something like

"Because my grandmother started a war by glassing a city and my mother may be the most evil thing SAIA has ever seen? Doesn't bother me"

Anything else would require knowledge of Zezzuva history.

[Merlin]

I think Zezzuva is the tallest clan leader. Fa'lina is pretty tall but I think Zezzuva has a bit of height to her. 

You think?


I mean, wouldn't you be the only person who would know for sure? ;-]

Well.... they are shapeshifters

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

[Well.... they are shapeshifters

You make a good point. :-/

[Tylor]

I like her.

[Kuzma Volkov]

I dunno why but whenever I hear "you should be" I think of Scare Tactics.

[SilverDemonWolf]

I almost never comment, buuut...

As to the shapeshifters and height thing, didn't Abel imply that there's a limit to shapeshifting?

Right before they made him change into Merlitz during the whole Alexi-kidnapping bit, he was talking about the difficulty of shapeshifting.  One thing he clearly said was 'Relocating mass'.

Now, I realize this is a world of magic and thus the laws of physics may be a little sketchy, but under normal conditions, mass cannot be created or destroyed.  Abel has supported this inadvertantly, by comments made by other charaters (specifically, where he relocated some mass from his wings to make clothing).

Seems to me that when shapeshifting, your current mass is what you have to work with.  No matter how you reorder things, you have to keep the same amount of mass.

So, to shapeshift as tall as Zezzuva or Fa'Lina, a normal 'cubi would have to make themselves thin as a twig, which would look proportionately wrong.  Thus, they're unlikely to do so.

Sorry, this is all just a theory and I'm probably totally wrong.

[Jasae Bushae]

Well regarding mass in shapeshifting, rather than making oneself as thing as a twig they could go in the opposite direction and inflate themselves like a blowfish which would avoid the twiggy look.

Though are there any limits for triwings? They don't seem to care about size and mass, their arguably not even physical entities anymore and Fa'lina somehow has a magic academy that is so awesome that even the dragons couldn't touch it.

[Mischa]

I think Zezzuva is the tallest clan leader. Fa'lina is pretty tall but I think Zezzuva has a bit of height to her. 

Well, Fa'lina has other... assets, though. 

Admittedly, with all the discussion about displaced mass, it does make me wonder if the two occupy similar mass/volume... just distributed differently.

[ChaosMageX]

Well regarding mass in shapeshifting, rather than making oneself as thing as a twig they could go in the opposite direction and inflate themselves like a blowfish which would avoid the twiggy look.

Yeah, that's probably the case in the opposite direction as well, in which they'd have to increase their density when shape-shifting into a smaller form.  However, I wonder what exactly the physical limit to this density shifting in size shifting is?  One would think there's definitely an upper limit due to structural integrity, but just how dense can Cubi get going the opposite direction?  Perhaps Aaryanna shape-shifting into a feral poodle that one time wasn't so unreasonable after all, and even ordinary Cubi could shape-shift into smaller lower life-forms if need or desire should arise.

[joshofspam]

One thing I think is really interesting is the fact of how her eyes look and how she mentions Dan's headwings not being present.

By the looks of it, Zezzuva doesn't have eyes that she can use to see. But it is quite obvious that with that statement and how easily she can address them, that she can see her surroundings some way.

It's actually something I've wondered about the Tri-wings. Being more composed of magic and less of their born flesh when they make the change, would that mean their senses change as well as their physical being?

[lilpuppy23]

I almost never comment, buuut...

As to the shapeshifters and height thing, didn't Abel imply that there's a limit to shapeshifting?

Right before they made him change into Merlitz during the whole Alexi-kidnapping bit, he was talking about the difficulty of shapeshifting.  One thing he clearly said was 'Relocating mass'.

Now, I realize this is a world of magic and thus the laws of physics may be a little sketchy, but under normal conditions, mass cannot be created or destroyed.  Abel has supported this inadvertantly, by comments made by other charaters (specifically, where he relocated some mass from his wings to make clothing).

Seems to me that when shapeshifting, your current mass is what you have to work with.  No matter how you reorder things, you have to keep the same amount of mass.

So, to shapeshift as tall as Zezzuva or Fa'Lina, a normal 'cubi would have to make themselves thin as a twig, which would look proportionately wrong.  Thus, they're unlikely to do so.

Sorry, this is all just a theory and I'm probably totally wrong.

They could change their density? Kind of like how a glass of water turns into a cloud.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

They could change their density? Kind of like how a glass of water turns into a cloud.

One obvious way is to go hollow - like the bones of a bird, which are structurally stable, but have a lot less weight than land-bound creatures, as a rule, due to being hollow.

This is, of course, going to change the density. It's all a matter of how - if you spread the parts out a little at a time, and get it spread evenly, then you get one effect. If you leave the density of the flesh/bone more or less the same, but wrap it around open spaces, the overall density goes down, but the individual density of, say, the bones doesn't change too much.


... I'm putting way too much thought into this. ;-]

[joshofspam]

They could change their density? Kind of like how a glass of water turns into a cloud.

One obvious way is to go hollow - like the bones of a bird, which are structurally stable, but have a lot less weight than land-bound creatures, as a rule, due to being hollow.

This is, of course, going to change the density. It's all a matter of how - if you spread the parts out a little at a time, and get it spread evenly, then you get one effect. If you leave the density of the flesh/bone more or less the same, but wrap it around open spaces, the overall density goes down, but the individual density of, say, the bones doesn't change too much.


... I'm putting way too much thought into this. ;-]

I'd imagine that limits are placed on a cubi's shapeshifting besides mass.

If a cubi can be killed like any other being, then all those internal organs are probably still important enough not to impead function. I think Amber mentioned shapesifting was like flexing a muscle. That being the case, a muscle has limits how much it can contract and how far it can stretch without tearing.

I'm sure Abel was giving Dan a abridged version of mass shifting.

[Jasae Bushae]

I think Amber mentioned shapesifting was like flexing a muscle. That being the case, a muscle has limits how much it can contract and how far it can stretch without tearing.

Hmm...I wonder if its possible to get shapeshifting cramps...Oh, or whether you should avoid eating a few hours before you turn into something XD

[Naldru]

One thing I think is really interesting is the fact of how her eyes look and how she mentions Dan's headwings not being present.

By the looks of it, Zezzuva doesn't have eyes that she can use to see. But it is quite obvious that with that statement and how easily she can address them, that she can see her surroundings some way.

It's actually something I've wondered about the Tri-wings. Being more composed of magic and less of their born flesh when they make the change, would that mean their senses change as well as their physical being?

Is it possible that she can hear and see what other people are hearing and seeing in the same way that cubi hear thoughts.  After all, she is supposed to be the big expert on hearing thoughts.

Regarding knowledge of Dan hiding head wings, it is probably being mentioned by many people in the area.

[Les]

So, Zezzuva is a drama-llama, who'd'uv'thunk?

[Eboreg]

I think that 'Cubi have an extra hyperspace reserve of energy that they can add or subtract to in order to change their mass. How big this reserve is probably depends on their natural mass and their power level.

[mithril]

I think that 'Cubi have an extra hyperspace reserve of energy that they can add or subtract to in order to change their mass. How big this reserve is probably depends on their natural mass and their power level.

i don't know if "hyperspace" is an accurate term, but given that magic can be used to do shapeshifting (via spells or via patches), the idea that Cubi shapeshifting has some sort of innate magical ability to alter mass isn't hard to believe. especially for Tri-wings, which have been described as more magic than flesh.

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

Zezzuva's face in the first panel reminds me of Grumpy Cat.

Interesting.......

[joshofspam]

Zezzuva's face in the first panel reminds me of Grumpy Cat.

Interesting.......

I sort of thought of this, ...

But the frown is just too much to quite match up.