28/05/2012 [DMFA# 1312] Fool me twice, shame on me.

[Nocturne of Night]

It produces a vacuum (area of zero air pressure) at the air pump.  The work is done by surrounding air rushing in to attempt to fill the vacuum, where it exerts force the offending materials on the way.

Now we get into the philosophical debate of whether we can create a total vacuum using conventional objects like a vacuum cleaner. Perhaps for that instant you turn it on the area directly behind the fan, just a sliver thick, has no air but after that it's just moving air through at reduced pressure.

*puts on a 10/6 hat* Tea, anyone?

[TacticalError]

It produces a vacuum (area of zero air pressure) at the air pump.  The work is done by surrounding air rushing in to attempt to fill the vacuum, where it exerts force the offending materials on the way.

Now we get into the philosophical debate of whether we can create a total vacuum using conventional objects like a vacuum cleaner. Perhaps for that instant you turn it on the area directly behind the fan, just a sliver thick, has no air but after that it's just moving air through at reduced pressure.

*puts on a 10/6 hat* Tea, anyone?

Yes, this thread has started to go way off the rails.

I think it's possible to create a total vacuum using conventional appliances, but it depends on whether we can find a container that can withstand the by-comparison crushing air pressure from outside... and how much faith you put in the vacuum cleaner's electric motor. But I suppose a the air is full of tiny vacuums, just with particles rushing to fill the gaps continuously. I guess if a volume of gas didn't have any empty spaces in it at any given time, it would be a liquid or a solid.

[Nocturne of Night]

...

I almost don't want to go on at this point because at this scale things get reeeeally weird, like how atoms are 99% vacuum or you begin to feel the repulsive effects of the electrons around the atoms (at our scale the charges are too close and effectively cancel out; btw this is what your sense of touch is). Nothing "rushes in to fill the gaps." There just happens to be more electrons where there's more air and stuff, so an atom or molecule moves toward wherever the density/pressure is less. Solids happen to be really dense and interlocked, which is why you can hold things like water and vacuums in a jar because nothing wants to squeeze through the repelling field that permeates the jar (at the atomic level).

Wow, I'm a nerd. Comes with the major I guess...

[TacticalError]

...

I almost don't want to go on at this point because at this scale things get reeeeally weird, like how atoms are 99% vacuum or you begin to feel the repulsive effects of the electrons around the atoms (at our scale the charges are too close and effectively cancel out; btw this is what your sense of touch is). Nothing "rushes in to fill the gaps." There just happens to be more electrons where there's more air and stuff, so an atom or molecule moves toward wherever the density/pressure is less. Solids happen to be really dense and interlocked, which is why you can hold things like water and vacuums in a jar because nothing wants to squeeze through the repelling field that permeates the jar (at the atomic level).

Wow, I'm a nerd. Comes with the major I guess...

... My brain just broke.

[Nocturne of Night]

...

I almost don't want to go on at this point because at this scale things get reeeeally weird, like how atoms are 99% vacuum or you begin to feel the repulsive effects of the electrons around the atoms (at our scale the charges are too close and effectively cancel out; btw this is what your sense of touch is). Nothing "rushes in to fill the gaps." There just happens to be more electrons where there's more air and stuff, so an atom or molecule moves toward wherever the density/pressure is less. Solids happen to be really dense and interlocked, which is why you can hold things like water and vacuums in a jar because nothing wants to squeeze through the repelling field that permeates the jar (at the atomic level).

Wow, I'm a nerd. Comes with the major I guess...

... My brain just broke.

At least it didn't disintegrate like most people's do. Need help picking up the pieces?

[Ignuus66]

...

I almost don't want to go on at this point because at this scale things get reeeeally weird, like how atoms are 99% vacuum or you begin to feel the repulsive effects of the electrons around the atoms (at our scale the charges are too close and effectively cancel out; btw this is what your sense of touch is). Nothing "rushes in to fill the gaps." There just happens to be more electrons where there's more air and stuff, so an atom or molecule moves toward wherever the density/pressure is less. Solids happen to be really dense and interlocked, which is why you can hold things like water and vacuums in a jar because nothing wants to squeeze through the repelling field that permeates the jar (at the atomic level).

Wow, I'm a nerd. Comes with the major I guess...

... My brain just broke.

At least it didn't disintegrate like most people's do. Need help picking up the pieces?

Somehow I think I managed to understand it... But my brain still melted.


But what if you ionize the air in the Jar and the jar itself? Will say the oxygen in the air combine with the possible Carbon of the plastic?  

[TacticalError]

...

I almost don't want to go on at this point because at this scale things get reeeeally weird, like how atoms are 99% vacuum or you begin to feel the repulsive effects of the electrons around the atoms (at our scale the charges are too close and effectively cancel out; btw this is what your sense of touch is). Nothing "rushes in to fill the gaps." There just happens to be more electrons where there's more air and stuff, so an atom or molecule moves toward wherever the density/pressure is less. Solids happen to be really dense and interlocked, which is why you can hold things like water and vacuums in a jar because nothing wants to squeeze through the repelling field that permeates the jar (at the atomic level).

Wow, I'm a nerd. Comes with the major I guess...

... My brain just broke.

At least it didn't disintegrate like most people's do. Need help picking up the pieces?

Somehow I think I managed to understand it... But my brain still melted.


But what if you ionize the air in the Jar and the jar itself? Will say the oxygen in the air combine with the possible Carbon of the plastic?  

I think it's probably best if I pick up my brain pieces and leave before this goes on an ornate trolley to the tearoom. This is way beyond my GSCE science knowledge. Well, at least at this time of day.

[Nocturne of Night]

...

I almost don't want to go on at this point because at this scale things get reeeeally weird, like how atoms are 99% vacuum or you begin to feel the repulsive effects of the electrons around the atoms (at our scale the charges are too close and effectively cancel out; btw this is what your sense of touch is). Nothing "rushes in to fill the gaps." There just happens to be more electrons where there's more air and stuff, so an atom or molecule moves toward wherever the density/pressure is less. Solids happen to be really dense and interlocked, which is why you can hold things like water and vacuums in a jar because nothing wants to squeeze through the repelling field that permeates the jar (at the atomic level).

Wow, I'm a nerd. Comes with the major I guess...

... My brain just broke.

At least it didn't disintegrate like most people's do. Need help picking up the pieces?

Somehow I think I managed to understand it... But my brain still melted.


But what if you ionize the air in the Jar and the jar itself? Will say the oxygen in the air combine with the possible Carbon of the plastic? 

Now we're in the quantum! If we weren't on the way before we certainly are now! 

The age old question of bonding theory: which force prevails, the repulsion of electrons or the sharing of space to get more room to zip around? Electrons hate each other, but like being in pairs if possible (particles are funny). Inorganic chemistry is all over this. Ionizing breaks bonds and unpairs electrons, so rearranging is certainly possible. Then you'll get a layer of whatever carbon-oxygen substance you just made on the inside, along with the expected reduction of pressure from pulling out and bonding the air. As for the rest of the jar, it will either remain impermeable (bonds with itself) or disintegrate into a bunch of free radicals in the atmosphere (well, fudge), I'd imagine. But oxygen has two bonds and breaking both might be too much to overcome, so nothing may happen. Or you attach peroxide and make explosives! Yay! You never know until you try!

(Feel free to stop whenever. I love thinking about this stuff and could go on and on about it.)

[Ignuus66]

Let's try that 

*explosive salsa jar*

To my surprise I understood most of it

[Nocturne of Night]

It's fun for me, explaining really strange and interesting things like physics in a way people can understand! That's why I call myself a nerd. Also tends to make me sit back and think "Huh," and understand it in a new and easier-to-chew way. Glad to see it worked! 

I recently realized that the way d-orbitals are populated (vital to making some enzymes like hemoglobin work) can be likened to a problem of renting apartments. It's so nice to not have to share a room (high spin electronics), but if that relatively puts too much of a dent in your wallet you'll bear it grudgingly (low spin electronics). The "relative expense" is all about the metal in the middle and the things bonded to it.

Also how much math goes into chemistry: if done using molecular symmetry (a la group theory), it's a linear algebra problem wearing a cheesy mustache and snickering at you from the shadows.

[Ignuus66]

To be fair I'm very much interested in chemistry and physics, so I don't midn if I don't understand something I try to understand it, and look for an explanation

[Nocturne of Night]

  Welp, I think I've done enough damage for one thread. Let us never speak of this again.