A wizard did it!

[Kokopelli]

A have a question.

Does the Magic in the DMFA universe follow any rules?

Does the magic background is explained somewere? I remember it is a chaotic a unstable energy, but were does it came from? Can anyone control it? Does the energy color have some significance? Is there a "good" magic and "bad" magic or it is the same energy and the way you use that make it look moral or amoral? Does it have any type of limitations?

[Ignuus66]

As far as I know, magic is a random form of energy that is difficult too control (see Deeb's creation) There is no "good" magic or "bad" magic, there is healing magic and dark magic, but they are not evil, it's how the person using it is like.

As far as where it comes from, it's not really specified by Amber (the author), but to improvise, I'd say it is either a fifth fundemental force, or it's a manifestation of energy. (Quite a lot of energy, because if it's possible to create matter out of magic, that means that magicking a diamond the size of your fist up with take up energy the equivalent of accelarating a ship the size of a carrier to around 16% of the speed of light.... And that's a TON of energy. What might also be possible is that every time somone magicks up matter, it might be just "stealing" it from a alternate universe.... or merging and rearranging nearby atoms into the specified item, but as I previously stated this would also take a ton of energy (about as much as the amount of energy released splitting the same amount of materials, which would basically allow any magically adept creature/ (even your avarage pre-mature cubi) to create explosions the size of a nuclear weapon.


Of course attaching science to fantasy usually ends in technobabble and/or confusion,  you should just try not too think about the gaping science hole, and understand that..

.... it's magic 

[justacritic]

As far as I know, magic is a random form of energy that is difficult too control (see Deeb's creation) There is no "good" magic or "bad" magic, there is healing magic and dark magic, but they are not evil, it's how the person using it is like.

As far as where it comes from, it's not really specified by Amber (the author), but to improvise, I'd say it is either a fifth fundemental force, or it's a manifestation of energy. (Quite a lot of energy, because if it's possible to create matter out of magic, that means that magicking a diamond the size of your fist up with take up energy the equivalent of accelarating a ship the size of a carrier to around 16% of the speed of light.... And that's a TON of energy. What might also be possible is that every time somone magicks up matter, it might be just "stealing" it from a alternate universe.... or merging and rearranging nearby atoms into the specified item, but as I previously stated this would also take a ton of energy (about as much as the amount of energy released splitting the same amount of materials, which would basically allow any magically adept creature/ (even your avarage pre-mature cubi) to create explosions the size of a nuclear weapon.


Of course attaching science to fantasy usually ends in technobabble and/or confusion,  you should just try not too think about the gaping science hole, and understand that..

.... it's magic 

What about the rules of magic A is magic A? You know the basic guidelines that magic seems to operate in this universe? Amber seems to give some general guidelines to it.

[Turnsky]

what is magic but the metaphysical manipulation of energy, under classical scientific definition energy is neither created nor destroyed, merely transferred and transformed.
Matter also falls into this category as more often than not, something is created from seemingly nothing, but that's just energy-matter conversion.

what you're really wondering is -how- it's all being manipulated. But once you figure that bit out, it ceases to be magic.

it becomes SCIENCE. 

If Magic was actually governed by any rules, there'd be certain 'physical' laws in play that are unique only to furrae and what lurks in the depths of Ambaargh's mind.

so, who'd like to explain the laws of physics of furrae and back it up with mathematical theorem? 

[Tezkat]

Magic permeates everything in Furrae... to the point that objects entirely devoid of magic do not exist. (Not yet, anyway; Jyrras is apparently working on it.)

Anyone, even Beings, have the potential to learn how to control it, at least a little bit, though Beings have very little natural magic talent. The more powerful stuff remains the domain of Creatures and those descended from them. Unlike Beings, Creatures usually have an innate ability to shape magic, even at a young age.

There is light magic (in which the Angels specialize) and dark magic (more Demon style), but Amber has never actually explained what falls into either category. It's hinted in the Demonology that dark magic is literally magic related to darkness (references to shadow melding and the like) rather than any kind of moral delineation. Elemental magic appears to be something separate entirely. The distinction between magic types remains one of the biggest gaps in public knowledge about the magic system in DMFA, and characters in the comic don't seem to follow obvious racial patterns when actually using or talking about magic. We regularly see Demons using healing magic, for instance, and much of their combat magic is more traditional fireballs and lightning bolts instead of "dark" blasts.

Magic does follow rules. My own compilation for reference in Furrae based writing and RPs is fairly extensive, but the public knowledge base is patchy at best, and Amber doesn't like to info dump us very often--such threads tend to get out of hand very quickly. Not to mention that every now and then she comes out with a word of goddess explanation that completely overturns how we thought stuff was supposed to work, sometimes even revising or outright contradicting older established canon. Overall, it's been thematically consistent over the past decade or so, but the Rule of Funny/Cool frequently supersedes Magic A is Magic A.

[Plotting]

For some reason I seem to recall magic being manipulated by mental means being/creatures who have the ability to do such things. I also think, again from memory, that different parts of the mind are related to the use of different types of magic.

I think this was explained in the DMFA comic - but I would need to do a serious archive binge to find out for sure.

So this might help with the how it is controlled.

As for limitations, well it takes numerous lessons to learn different effects, all of which can be dispelled.

For example, shapeshifting for a Cubi involves changing of bodymass, hiding wings, potentially changing the colour of many hair and fur strands, and possibly changing eye colour. Learning how to do each is a lesson in its self, and takes months to learn, and usually years to master according to Abel.

Hope this helps a little.

[Kokopelli]

As far as I know, magic is a random form of energy that is difficult too control (see Deeb's creation) There is no "good" magic or "bad" magic, there is healing magic and dark magic, but they are not evil, it's how the person using it is like.

As far as where it comes from, it's not really specified by Amber (the author), but to improvise, I'd say it is either a fifth fundamental force, or it's a manifestation of energy. (Quite a lot of energy, because if it's possible to create matter out of magic, that means that magicking a diamond the size of your fist up with take up energy the equivalent of accelarating a ship the size of a carrier to around 16% of the speed of light.... And that's a TON of energy. What might also be possible is that every time somone magicks up matter, it might be just "stealing" it from a alternate universe.... or merging and rearranging nearby atoms into the specified item, but as I previously stated this would also take a ton of energy (about as much as the amount of energy released splitting the same amount of materials, which would basically allow any magically adept creature/ (even your avarage pre-mature cubi) to create explosions the size of a nuclear weapon.


Of course attaching science to fantasy usually ends in technobabble and/or confusion,  you should just try not too think about the gaping science hole, and understand that..

.... it's magic  

But the color of the energy change from caster to caster does that means different types of energy (Evil, good, Neutral, Arcane, divine...) Or it is just a reflection of that magic user personality? (For example Black Pegasus Magic is red, he IS evil but it also match with his color scheme and personality, now Mab Parents have blue and purple energy)

Does the fact that magic is such a powerfull force have any repercussions? Are people afraid of it or see it as something dangerous?
In Abel backstory we see that magic can be taught as any other academic subject what means it have rules and methods, we need to understand them in other to use it.

what is magic but the metaphysical manipulation of energy, under classical scientific definition energy is neither created nor destroyed, merely transferred and transformed.
Matter also falls into this category as more often than not, something is created from seemingly nothing, but that's just energy-matter conversion.

what you're really wondering is -how- it's all being manipulated. But once you figure that bit out, it ceases to be magic.

it becomes SCIENCE.  

If Magic was actually governed by any rules, there'd be certain 'physical' laws in play that are unique only to furrae and what lurks in the depths of Ambaargh's mind.

so, who'd like to explain the laws of physics of furrae and back it up with mathematical theorem?  

I think there is no need to go so deep. A basic list of rules and limitations would explain a lot. A energy background would be nice too.

Magic permeates everything in Furrae... to the point that objects entirely devoid of magic do not exist. (Not yet, anyway; Jyrras is apparently working on it.)

Anyone, even Beings, have the potential to learn how to control it, at least a little bit, though Beings have very little natural magic talent. The more powerful stuff remains the domain of Creatures and those descended from them. Unlike Beings, Creatures usually have an innate ability to shape magic, even at a young age.

There is light magic (in which the Angels specialize) and dark magic (more Demon style), but Amber has never actually explained what falls into either category. It's hinted in the Demonology that dark magic is literally magic related to darkness (references to shadow melding and the like) rather than any kind of moral delineation. Elemental magic appears to be something separate entirely. The distinction between magic types remains one of the biggest gaps in public knowledge about the magic system in DMFA, and characters in the comic don't seem to follow obvious racial patterns when actually using or talking about magic. We regularly see Demons using healing magic, for instance, and much of their combat magic is more traditional fireballs and lightning bolts instead of "dark" blasts.

Magic does follow rules. My own compilation for reference in Furrae based writing and RPs is fairly extensive, but the public knowledge base is patchy at best, and Amber doesn't like to info dump us very often--such threads tend to get out of hand very quickly. Not to mention that every now and then she comes out with a word of goddess explanation that completely overturns how we thought stuff was supposed to work, sometimes even revising or outright contradicting older established canon. Overall, it's been thematically consistent over the past decade or so, but the Rule of Funny/Cool frequently supersedes Magic A is Magic A.

One think it makes me wonder is, does magic affect the user in  some way? I mean it is chaotic and unstable, The Fae are the  most prominent magic users and we can see that they demonstrate some traces of insanity and unstable traces of personality, sure they have they serious moments but just look at Fae dimension, it is complete mad and chaotic. It would be interesting if the prolong magic usage affect the mind of the user in some way.
The fact that some races are "closer" to magic them others makes me wonder, What factor makes the demons and other creatures more powerfull in magic them beings? Are they close to the energy sources? Is it in they DNA? Is it in they soul? Is innate? Is in the blood? Where is the Magic factor?

For some reason I seem to recall magic being manipulated by mental means being/creatures who have the ability to do such things. I also think, again from memory, that different parts of the mind are related to the use of different types of magic.

I think this was explained in the DMFA comic - but I would need to do a serious archive binge to find out for sure.

So this might help with the how it is controlled.

As for limitations, well it takes numerous lessons to learn different effects, all of which can be dispelled.

For example, shapeshifting for a Cubi involves changing of bodymass, hiding wings, potentially changing the colour of many hair and fur strands, and possibly changing eye colour. Learning how to do each is a lesson in its self, and takes months to learn, and usually years to master according to Abel.

Hope this helps a little.

Isn't cubi  shapeshifting  a natural ability?

Also something that comes to my mind. I remember a comic where the main character (Dan) in his early years used magic to move a rock. He was almost a baby, and used some sort of Earth/telekinesis magic in that age! It makes me wonder if magic is really so hard to learn. One can argue that it was due his Cubi bloodline but his heritage wasn't completely developed.

Also in Abel back story, his teacher tell him that he have some kind of talent for magic and suggest some special classes for him to develop this ability; Again one can argue that it is thanks to his Cubi blood, but her reaction to it seems to be very casual, so it is probably a common event for a being develop some kind of magic ability or talent, the question is:
What makes some beings more likely to magic than others?

Wow big text!

[Tezkat]

Does the fact that magic is such a powerfull force have any repercussions? Are people afraid of it or see it as something dangerous?

Furrae is a world with messenger orbs instead of telephones and Gryphon carts instead of taxis.

For the most part, Beings are only afraid of it when it's been trying to kill them. Which is... surprisingly often. The Being vs Creature divide was historically much deeper than it is in modern DMFA.

I think there is no need to go so deep. A basic list of rules and limitations would explain a lot. A energy background would be nice too.

There have been plenty of infodumps over the years, but they've always addressed specific topics. So you won't find any general "this is how magic works" treaties, because they don't exist. But you can, for instance, find comics detailing the mechanics of conjuring and shaping objects. The most recent big thread snowballed into Tinfoil Hat territory after a surprising revelation on how enchanting ammunition works...

One think it makes me wonder is, does magic affect the user in  some way? I mean it is chaotic and unstable, The Fae are the  most prominent magic users and we can see that they demonstrate some traces of insanity and unstable traces of personality, sure they have they serious moments but just look at Fae dimension, it is complete mad and chaotic. It would be interesting if the prolong magic usage affect the mind of the user in some way.

Amber stated in a forum post a while back that the "magic" of the Fae is qualitatively different from the regular magic available to other Creatures and Beings. They're like the Q from Star Trek. Their power crosses the boundary into plot device territory. And frankly, it's kinda silly to expect immortal, nigh all powerful entities to act like regular Beings. Unless they feel like it.

The fact that some races are "closer" to magic them others makes me wonder, What factor makes the demons and other creatures more powerfull in magic them beings? Are they close to the energy sources? Is it in they DNA? Is it in they soul? Is innate? Is in the blood? Where is the Magic factor?

The magic factor is... magic. Why is there a need to call it anything else? (Midi-chlorians, anyone? ) From Hybrid Genetics and related posts, we know that magic inheritance isn't really consistent with modern understanding of Mendelian genetics and DNA.

Magic is everywhere in the environment. An explanation that seems consistent with word of goddess information is that Creatures are concentrators of magic. It accumulates in them naturally, which is why they can shape it more easily. And reaching certain threshold levels can prompt the expression of secondary Creature characteristics (wings popping out, clan marks, etc.), sorta like the way newly elevated hormone levels influence morphology in adolescents. Many Creatures transcend dependence on biological metabolism and live off of magic in one way or another.

Isn't cubi  shapeshifting  a natural ability?

DMFA distinguishes between spells and Creature abilities, but both are technically "magic". The difference is mainly in how they learn to use them. Most of the time, anyway. In a world where magic is ubiquitous, it's sometimes difficult to know where to draw the line between natural and magical.


For instance, when Dan was captured with the Amazons, they were trapped in a box that negated spells and Creature abilities. It's interesting to note which abilities were negated and which were not:

The barrier did not cause either Shanna or Anna to revert to their true forms. (It's been stated that Cubi shapeshifting is an active process and suggested likewise for Dragons' alternate forms.) However, it did apparently suppress Shanna's supernatural strength and/or toughness.

Hanna was up and about despite owing her entire state of, well, not being completely dead to magic.

Amber once stated that Dan's ability to hide giant swords in his clothes is actually a hammerspace power similar to Alexsi's mallet, which we've seen her literally summon out of thin air.

We can infer that these expressions of the supernatural are sufficiently different from other Creature powers/magic to ignore the barrier, though again it could just have been a matter of plot convenience or Rule of Funny.

Also something that comes to my mind. I remember a comic where the main character (Dan) in his early years used magic to move a rock. He was almost a baby, and used some sort of Earth/telekinesis magic in that age! It makes me wonder if magic is really so hard to learn. One can argue that it was due his Cubi bloodline but his heritage wasn't completely developed.

Also in Abel back story, his teacher tell him that he have some kind of talent for magic and suggest some special classes for him to develop this ability; Again one can argue that it is thanks to his Cubi blood, but her reaction to it seems to be very casual, so it is probably a common event for a being develop some kind of magic ability or talent, the question is:
What makes some beings more likely to magic than others?

In most circumstances, it's Creature ancestry. The closer you are to the Creatures in your bloodline, the stronger your innate magical talents. So Dan could move rocks as a small child (although his control was, shall we say, painfully unrefined) and could have been much more powerful with real training, but Wildy had to train as a shaman to learn spells.

[Mao]

I think you'll very quickly find that there are no hard and fast rules for magic in DMFA because that would limit the author in what she could do.  At least in terms of things she could do without someone who takes these things too seriously getting on her back as to whether or not something was within the rules that she had set previously.

As has been mentioned in other threads, usually people who take these things too seriously are looking for loopholes in which to establish their own part of canon (be it a character or whole fanfic) or to attempt to shape existing canon.  So by generally not setting any hard and fast 'rules' the author can spare themselves a bit of headache.

That's my 2c.

[justacritic]

Still it's nice to have guidelines to things, so a person can know when they are being too blatant for a particular setting.

[Sofox]

As has been mentioned in other threads, usually people who take these things too seriously are looking for loopholes in which to establish their own part of canon (be it a character or whole fanfic) or to attempt to shape existing canon.  So by generally not setting any hard and fast 'rules' the author can spare themselves a bit of headache.

You know, I was thinking the other day how I preferred with old TV series that had no easy way for the fans to contact the creators or for the creators to give their own explanations of the show. In that way, the fans could make their own interpretation of the show and have it be all the more special to them... of course, their assumptions could be smashed by a later episode but then you could just pretend that a completely different writer had taken over and when writing he didn't understand the "true spirit" of the show.

[Rabid Mollusk]

One think it makes me wonder is, does magic affect the user in  some way? I mean it is chaotic and unstable, The Fae are the  most prominent magic users and we can see that they demonstrate some traces of insanity and unstable traces of personality, sure they have they serious moments but just look at Fae dimension, it is complete mad and chaotic. It would be interesting if the prolong magic usage affect the mind of the user in some way.

If prolonged exposure to magic causes some mental effect I do not know.

But I'm pretty sure that causes some kind of physical effect. Just look at the childhood friend of Abel, I think her father was an adventurer, exposing the baby to such amount of magic made an eye appear on her hand when she was born.   But I'm not sure.

I think her name was Cindy, she was the most sad and depressing character in DMFA

[Tezkat]

As has been mentioned in other threads, usually people who take these things too seriously are looking for loopholes in which to establish their own part of canon (be it a character or whole fanfic) or to attempt to shape existing canon.  So by generally not setting any hard and fast 'rules' the author can spare themselves a bit of headache.

You know, I was thinking the other day how I preferred with old TV series that had no easy way for the fans to contact the creators or for the creators to give their own explanations of the show. In that way, the fans could make their own interpretation of the show and have it be all the more special to them... of course, their assumptions could be smashed by a later episode but then you could just pretend that a completely different writer had taken over and when writing he didn't understand the "true spirit" of the show.

Much of the experience of being a fan involves taking something cool and making it your own. There are 30k+ posts in the Ballroom, plus the RPs from The Nice, and much (most?) of that is in campaigns at least partially based on the world of Furrae. Plus we have all the fanfics, artwork, forum avatars, and even a spinoff webcomic. Validation from the original creator may be nice, but in practice it doesn't (often shouldn't) happen, and fans seeking it are usually missing the point.

For the most part, I think taking things too seriously is just nerds doing what nerds do. We just like to know stuff about things we care about and ravenously consume the little scraps as their appear. It's not all that uncommon for the resident fan population to know more about many aspects of a property than the authors themselves, because even without access to the internal creative bible, fans have the luxury of being able to record and analyze every single thing the authors output. Sometimes it can be annoying. Sometimes it can be pure awesome. R. A. Salvatore loves to tell the anecdote about how he needed the equipment list of one of his characters but hadn't actually been keeping track of it himself, so instead of laboriously going back through all his old novels, he posted anonymously on a fan board asking folks to help catalogue the inventory. Within days, he had a full gear list complete with page references.

[Trias Pandora]

Um...This has been bothering me as of late, and it does concern magic.  But if I'm wrong, I apologize profusely for it.

But I was wondering if summoning magic was illegal in Furrae or if its just not practical. 

Again, I'm sorry