Is going into the marines worth it for free college?

[Castle Pokemetroid]

I had a recruiter call yesterday and invited me for a interview. I went and learned about the benifits, and took the asvab test. I got a 76, whatever that means. He said it was good. Compared to other people who took it, it's a pretty good score.

For some reason, the marines have been very interested in me. Ever since my Junior year, I've gotten calls and advertisements through the mail relating to the marines. Now they've sent someone in person. My recruiter told me that the marines have already spent 6,000 to 8,000 dollars on me already. That's more than 40% of my father's yearly income. For my family, that's a huge amount of money.

The screening process is very selective. You must not have any felonies, not even tried any drug, have a GPA of over 2.5, took two AP classes at the same time in any year, not have any medical conditions, not had any surgeries, not have braces or any surgical pins, be 17 or older, be graduating and not fail any grade even once, not have a GED or drop out, and score more than a 50 on the asvab. Even then, they only seek students whom they personally believe can succeed in the marines.

Only a select few get pulled out and talked to in person. Especially in my school. There has only been a total of three who meets all qualifications out of 1,600 students. The average asvab score is 35, despite it being a rather moderately easy test. In my opinion, anyways.

Only two got picked by the air force, and those two are going to the air force academy.

They're offering to give me free college while I serve the marines. I'll be able to work off my four years at the same time I'm earning my bachelors.

The amount of money my family has saved for me for college is in the negatives. If I even want to think about going to college on my own, I'll be forced to use student loans, and the time I pay it off, it'll be triple the original price. I basically have nothing to go to college with, and I can't learn computer animation without going to college.

My passion and desire to do animation is great enough, that joining the marines seems very tempting.

But my father is opposed to the very idea. He says that the army is a bunch of lying, stealing crooks who only want more cannon fodder or bullet catchers for their military. My recruit says that I won't be sent to active duty or a war zone due to the fact that I'm the only male who can carry on my family name unless I choose to go. My father says this is a lie, and I'll be eventually be forced to be sent to battle.

I for one, refuse to go to battle. I don't want to take the life of another human. The very idea horrifies me. I also don't want to sign my own life away to an organization who deals with war and fighting. If I do join, the chance that I'll be shipped away will always be there.

My recruiter says that if I so choose, after boot camp, I can do a job relating to computers. Repair, programming, ect. I can just do computer related stuff for those four years of service.

Another thing that I won't like is the boot camp. I'm not exactly physically fit. I can barely run a fourth of a mile, let alone one and a half in 13 minutes. I also can't even imagine what boot camp will even be like. My recruiter says they'll start out small and eventually get up to speed. It's three months of boot camp before the four years of service.

http://www.marines.com/main/index/making_marines/recruit_training/marine-bootcamp
I've been researching the marines and what I should expect, and quite frankly, it seems like some tough stuff.

http://www.airforce.com/opportunities/enlisted/basic-training/
Sure as hell makes the air force boot camp look like an afternoon at a playground. Not only that, the air force is only two months, compared to three at the marines.

I'm currently trying to find some information on the marines vs the air force. I have no idea what the air force has to offer. I have little to no interest in aeronautics or piloting anything that doesn't touch the ground. If it goes in the air or water, I don't have any interest in it, or being on it.

But getting into the marines is a guarentee if I so choose to go there. The marines want me to go there, and they will (and have) spend several thousand to do so.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

I yanked up an old friend of my brother's,who is in the marine college training. Here's what he said (Paraphrased, because his vocabulary is a bit colorful)



First of all, a 76 isn't HIGH, but more on the better end of average. It's still good enough to get pretty much any MOS (Military Occupational Specialty). Secondly, your recruiter is bullshitting you.  The screening process for the marines is less selective than the boy scouts. The Marine Corps is the only branch that'll waive felonies (although not all of them), and some minor drug usage. AP classes are *not* a requirement, and as for medical conditions, it's something of an extension of "Don't ask, don't tell." As long as it isn't visible, they're not going to look too hard for it. You can get through with a GED. "Basically,the only thing he said that was right was that you need to be at least 17."


As for that 6000 that they "spent" on you... no, once you go to boot camp then yes, they spend 7000 to get u to and put you through boot camp, not to mention that they're paying you while you're there. They do help pay for college which is a very nice thing, that's a big reason for why I joined.  (That is, he joined,  not me)


Your father is right in some ways but he isn't 100% right and if you're smart about it you can go in and not get deployed into combat. If you want to do computer stuff either ask to be a 0651 (Data technician specialist) or a 2800 or 5900( radio and radar technicians) they're the top mos intelligence wise( I'm a 2846) AND when they get deployed, they sit behind a desk in the base and repair radios and do nothing in the air conditioning.


The schooling very long though, its out in California in the middle of the desert for a long time but its not too bad. As for boot camp, its mostly mental, yea the physical aspect is tough but its one of those things that you get used to, and after 3 and a half months of it you'll be in shape, but I'd work to get into shape before hand, run with your track team or something. Also marine corps has the shortest deployments of the branches. And as an added bonus they have the nicest uniforms as well

******************************************************************************

Anyway, that's  all I have for now, I can *try* to  get him again for follow up questions, but contact with Mike is a tad sporadic, so it might take a bit.

[Ghostwish]

0656 here. That's the tactical side of the 0651 that Corg mentioned.

And both sides do get deployed, eventually.

But, hey, let's kick off with the very topic of your post.

Is going to the marines a good way to pay for college? The answer is no.

If you want to use the military to pay your way into college, the air force is the best way to go. Not only do you stand the best chance of never seeing combat, but what the air force trains you will easily transfer over to the civilian side of things, unlike the marines who tend to be military-spec only. Also, the air force pays better, both while in and while using the GI Bill. And their uniforms are the 2nd best next to the marines.

However, I have concern over your statement about killing. You are what we call a conscious  objector, meaning you refuse to take another's life. Being one can get you kicked out of the military, if I recall correctly. At least, that's how I remember it in the USMC. Ultimately, the military may not be right for you, regardless of which branch you take. It is an institution founded on death, after all.

Now, let's move on to recruiters. I shall do my best not to cuss like a marine.

Do not believe a single word that lying excuse for a human being tells you.

Let me tell you about recruiters. They have a quota. A quota of people that they need to recruit to get a good score. What kind of score, you ask? Well, recruiting is what we call a 'B-billet'. It's what many NCOs to staff-NCOs take to better their chances of being promoted. Right there you can tell he is only in it for his own good.

That disgusting butt-kisser will say ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING to get you to sign on the line. As Corg's friend pointed out, nearly half of what he has said so far is a straight-up lie. Also, don't be impressed by the fact they came and talked to you. They do that all the time because it is literally their job, and you're not a unique case. He probably left your house and went to 6 others that day, feeding the same line of crap.

Case in point, ignore recruiters. And yes, I may be a bit biased. I hate recruiters. There are some good ones that will lay it on the line, but they are rare and far in-between.  The majority of them are referred to by a term that would be not polite to repeat here, but the official translation is a cloth container of feces. More honorable marines take the other B-Billets, which are drill instructor, range coach, and numerous training billets.

Already you've done the much smarter thing, which is to find people with experience in the area that are NOT recruiters.

So, rant aside, yah. Your best bet would be the air force, because only a very small portion of that branch actually goes to combat (pilots, mainly). You could also consider the navy, for they also don't see a lot of combat that doesn't involve shelling someone from a ship. But Marines? I would say no. We are the tip of the spear, so the saying goes, and thus we are always going into combat.

P.S. Corg's friend was also right on the ball on many other topics. 06 training takes place out in Cali in a lovely little hell hole surrounded by meth labs called 29 Palms. It's more commonly referred to as 29 stumps, due to the lack of trees, seeing how it's in a desert. And boot camp is entirely mind over matter. You'll be in shape whether you like it or not, but it's the mental aspect that will challenge you. While the marines have the shortest basic training, it's also the most intense.

[bradypodidae]

You refuse to go to battle. Stay out of my Corps.

I concur with both previous post.

Stay out of the Armed Forces of the United States of America. Any Branch. All you are looking for is a free ride to school. There are much better ways to find that then going into the military.

You want to serve God, Country, and Corps? Then join the ranks of America's warriors.

I wish you luck and great success in what ever you endeavor.

J Armstrong
Gunnery Sergeant, USMC

[Castle Pokemetroid]

I wonder, what if I mention to the recruiter that I rather join the air force? What are my chances of getting in?

I have a novel that I'm writing. I need like two chapters, and it's done. If I get it published (which I have no idea how to get something published, then have it sold) would that be enough to get me through a community college?

I really need this bit of information. I need that to be an option. What I also need is time. I can't research that right now.

As I mentioned in the topic title, all I want is a free way through college. It does not in any way have to be easy. As long as I get a career that I want, I will do anything, other than take a life, to get it.

My passion and desire burns with great intensity. I want nothing to stand in my way.

Something I learned just today is that one of my best friends since the 7th grade is joining the marines. He's signed up and is going 100%. If I do decide to go to boot camp within the month, I will be going to the same boot camp as he and six other students from the school.

Because there will be a potential six students going, I can tell by that information, and I understand now, that I am certainly not the only one he has personally talked to like this.

[Inumo]

I wonder, what if I mention to the recruiter that I rather join the air force? What are my chances of getting in?

I have a novel that I'm writing. I need like two chapters, and it's done. If I get it published (which I have no idea how to get something published, then have it sold) would that be enough to get me through a community college?

I really need this bit of information. I need that to be an option. What I also need is time. I can't research that right now.

As I mentioned in the topic title, all I want is a free way through college. It does not in any way have to be easy. As long as I get a career that I want, I will do anything, other than take a life, to get it.

My passion and desire burns with great intensity. I want nothing to stand in my way.

Something I learned just today is that one of my best friends since the 7th grade is joining the marines. He's signed up and is going 100%. If I do decide to go to boot camp within the month, I will be going to the same boot camp as he and six other students from the school.

Because there will be a potential six students going, I can tell by that information, and I understand now, that I am certainly not the only one he has personally talked to like this.

Okay, I'm going to ignore that first line, simply because it's stupid considering what you want. If you don't want to take a life, don't join the armed forces. There's a reason they're given that name.

Moving on, unless that novel happens to sell well (and I mean well), it might be enough to get you through, but not comfortably. Not many people are professional writers for a reason. To get it published, you need to talk with a publishing company, and if you pay them enough and they like the book enough, they can get your book edited, published, and onto store shelves, but there is absolutely NO guarantee it will sell. In addition, as I understand it, there is not much to be made from writing. The starving artist stereotype didn't come to be for no reason.

And in relation to the next couple of lines, look for scholarships. Fill out the FAFSA. If you're truly as passionate as you say you are, you'll find what you need.

To restate: if you cannot take a life and accept that fact, DON'T JOIN THE ARMED FORCES. I am not a patriot in many ways, but I know that any person that joins the armed forces should know that they may be forced to take another's life at some point during their career.

[Sofox]

You want to serve God, Country, and Corps? Then join the ranks of America's warriors.

Please, don't do that.
Thanks.


Castle Pokemetroid: You may want to talk to Mason Williams when it comes to books, he self published his own book after failing to get it published by a major publisher; he did find it tiring contacting all those publishers though. Of course his book contained an interpretation of religion which may have unnerved some of them, but it doesn't stop the fact that getting published can be hard.
Long story short: Your book may get published and make money and it's definitely worth pursuing, but you can't have it as your only plan so it would help to have something to fall back on.

[Alondro]

I for one, refuse to go to battle. I don't want to take the life of another human. The very idea horrifies me.
I've been researching the marines and what I should expect, and quite frankly, it seems like some tough stuff.

Yet someone must do the job.  Otherwise we'd all be speaking German now.  Or slavery would still exist.  Or our country never would have existed in the firstplace.  There is a time for war, and a time for peace.  It takes wisdom to know what time it is.

Alas, wisdom and politics today lie on opposite ends of the spectrum. 

Don't get into anything just to get something for free.  That is the way of the slothful who are often brought to ruin.  It's a main reason I believe suicide rates are so high in the army lately.  Too many without strength of mind entered for that 'free ride', and they crumbled when reality struck.  There was little suicide in WWII, which in comparison makes the recent 'wars' a cakewalk.  My grandfathers saw the horrors of war as only a world war can provide.  One took part in liberating a concentration camp in Germany.  He never told his daughters the things he saw, because he felt they were too terrible for their ears.  The other grandfather held an island ridge for 3 days with only a small company against thousands of Japanese soldiers while bombs literally went off right beside him. 

I wonder if perhaps the older generations could bear the burden because they had a greater sense of the realities of life than those of today.  They were smacked hard repeatedly by life's fickle moods.  Too many today life in a self-created fantasy, deluded with gold-plated celebrity and dreams of adoration by flocks of obsessed fans.  Gone is the humble desire simply to have a good home, a good job, and a loving family.  And with that came the desire to protect those things, and the country that allowed one to achieve those things when duty called.  Instead, the people of today drift idly from one thing to another, seeking the easy path by which to gain fame without having to lift a finger.  One such path is called "American Idol", just an example.  Can there be a greater, glaring example of the self-delusional state of so many young minds?

Well, there are simply too many factors for me to bring up to provide the complete picture.   All aspects of society play a part.  It would take ages to organize and present them all in a logical framework.  For now, I have my job to do!

By the way, I got a 99 on that test.  It took years for me to get them to leave me alone afterward!  I won't go into why I didn't join.  That's a history class all on its own!  Suffice to say, I will not enter a war in which I am forbidden to win.

[Turnsky]

here's the thing, in any military action whatsoever there's a case of "do or die" either you put forward the thought that yes, one day you WILL have to end someone's life. otherwise they'll end yours just as quick. You might be against killing, but the other guy will definitely have no objection to giving you a grand ol' boot off this mortal coil.

I'm not a military person, but if i were i'd be slightly insulted that you're technically using this as a "means to an end", give it your all, otherwise it's just gonna grind you into dust.

[nguard]

speaking as a  20 year veteran, and now a commisiioned officer, i say it was worth it...
I would not have been able to afford colledge without the G.I.  scolarship.
Also-- the work experience is worth it... you get to find out how to deal well with bosses with half your intelligence and twice your rank..  it will make a man of you, and you will have war stories to bore your children to tears with too..

[nguard]

on second thought-- you will have to adjust your attitude if you want to stay in long enough to collect on the G.I bill... :s  and even in the air force, there is a risk of violent death implied if you sighn up.  remember, you WILL see combat duty somewhere if you join the Corps or the Army.  and base duty is no picnic in the Air Force.  Lots of machines that can kill you if you are not paying attention.Learn to cope with that, or find another way to pay for college. 

Still, I'm pretty sure the army can make use of you one way or another, if you cannot make the cut for any of the other services....

If you find you like the armed forces afterwords, you might want to consider the national guard in your home district for continued service, and the drill checks don't hurt

[Damaris]

You do realize you can't join and then be a contentious objector, right? 

If you don't want to take a life, don't join the armed forces.  They make scholarships for that instead. Or, you know, working your way through college.

[Castle Pokemetroid]

You do realize you can't join and then be a contentious objector, right?

What I want to know is what he's saying that since I'm the only male in my family who can carry on the family name, if I choose to not go to war or the battle field it's my choice is true or not.

He says it like I can be contentious objector and there won't be any problems.

Also, is it true that once boot camp is over, the other stuff is easy in comparison to it?

What I want to do is ask the recruiter WHY the marines want me as much as he explains.

And why he follows me around school, constantly asking what I'm waiting for.

I've already asked to see the documents and be able to analyze them in a home setting before making a decsion.

I asked him how the hell joining the marines and working for them will better further my animation skills. He answered almost immediately that they'll be giving me college for that. By the way that he worded it: Nothing. It won't help my animation skills at all. It'll be the college that will be assiting that.

I researched the novel thing, and by what I found out, with the amount of pressure I have going on, using that as a means would be the equilivant of making a gamble. In this current point of time, I can't rely on that on being an option.

And the fact that my best friend is going to boot camp won't leave my mind. My habits have already been reversed and I've started to think about working out a lot more heavily. Granted I haven't started yet, but I can feel my habit of mind changing.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

You do realize you can't join and then be a contentious objector, right? 

Oh, I think he can. He can't be a conscientious objector, which is something else entirely, but I'm pretty sure that wherever he goes in the army, if he refuses to kill, he'll be a bone of contention all right. *grin*


Castle Pokemetroid, if you do go through with it, be aware that the majority of people you meet will be of the opinion of proeliator bradypodidae, rather than nguard. I've not seen anyone else here state that they've been through the process themselves, so anyone else should be taken with a grain of salt. Heck, even nguard is cautious about recommending it, as I read it.

Honestly, though, I'd recommend against the armed forces for your purposes. I know it seems like an easy way to get through college, but the fact that you're unwilling to fight for your cause seems at odds with your claim to be highly motivated. I should point out that I'm not saying you're incorrect in either, here, merely that for the job you're suggesting, it seems unlikely to work out to your benefit.

[Sofox]

   Pokemetroid, we've already established that the recruiter is most likely lieing to you, he's doing everything he can to get you to join up to the marines because he impoves his chances of promotion if if you do. The fact that 6 others of your school have joined just shows how successful he is. Think of him like a used car salesman, everything he does is for his own benefit, and in the meantime he'll use a variety of pressure, lies, guilt, grandeur and mind manipulation techniques on you in order to make you change your mind. From the sounds of your post, it looks like he's already getting to you.

Ultimately this has to be your decision. Clear everything out of your mind, take a breath and just look at the facts as they lay before you. There already seems to be a wealth of information on this thread expressing many points of view, so read over them again carefully and see if your thoughts arrange themselves into any sort of order.
Then post any remaining question you might have.

(incidentally, it may be helpful to get the opinion and feedback of more people in real life, think of others in your life who could give you advice)

[Sienna Maiu - M T]

I considered posting in this thread before, but decided against it on account of raging opinions and that there would not have been much I could add to the conversation.

I did however think of something last time, which I have now done a quick google-search to enact upon: http://www.scholarships.com/
Scholarship databases and the ilk are things you should be looking into. You can get scholarships for just about anything these days; genealogy, essays, community projects, the field you're going into... (an example of this latter; my mother got a scholarship once based on being a female going into a particular field, and being born where she was.) I once even heard an advertisement on the PAsystem in high school for a scholarship given to those of Italian descent (plus they had to write an essay, but...)

[Castle Pokemetroid]

Well, I just decided to so some exercise this Wednesday, and I must say, just an hour of it is quite some hard work.

I wasn't even working out that whole hour. More like twenty minutes.

Like hell if I'm joining the Marines. I can't even run a block without collapsing to my knees and gasping for air as though I'm dying.

The Marines sure are complete morons if they're seriously looking for people like me. That, or they're desperate.

Why would they want hypocritical hemophobia pacifist who can't even jog to save his life in their ranks?

If there was anything I learned from this, it's that I need to keep exercising. Sure has motivated me to do so.

Strange thing: Once I made my decision (I never told him yet) in my mind to not go, the guy has disappeared and I can't even find him anymore. One day he's escorting me to all my classes, the next, gone.

Another strange thing: As soon as I decided not to go to the Marines, I've been getting mail from the Navy to join their ranks. They sent me a personalized letter and everything to contact a recruiter. Not only that, but their offering the exact same things the Marines were offering me.

[Cvstos]

The USAF and Navy are the best bets to avoid combat, but even then it's not impossible. Although most of the time "combat" for those two involve watching things blow up from a very long way away, there are exceptions to this. Remember, in ANY branch of the military, getting shot at and having to shoot back is always a possibility.

But if you absolutely don't want to see combat, don't join the military. Ever. Period. Unless it's Dr. Steel's Army of Toy Soldiers. You're probably safe there. Probably.

You might, however, want to explore non-military service options, like http://www.americorps.gov/ .  You don't need to shoot someone to serve your country.

[Damaris]

Bite me, box.

[Sofox]

Well, I think you've made the right decision Pokemetroid. As for the Navy... well, you decide.

One thing that's kinda bugged me about this topic and conversation in general is that you say you don't want a role that takes you into battle because you don't want to kill, however you seem fine with any role in the military as long as it doesn't involve direct conflict.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but isn't getting any sort of job in the military still supporting the fighting and killing that they are doing, even if you don't take a life directly? In my mind, the only job that doesn't directly support killing is a Medic, but even then if you patch up a soldier well enough he could go right back into battle.
I'm not saying I'm right here, you could take this argument to its logical extreme and say even paying taxes supports the military and their killing, but it still feels a lot like you don't want to feel directly responsible for the death of another human being, yet you don't mind if someone dies only as an indirect consequence of your actions.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

But you can take that argument to infinity. You pay taxes that in part goes to support  a military that kills people. Is paying taxes a moral offense for a pacifist? Almost anything can indirectly support a cause, or a means to an end. I have trouble seeing any line as more arbitrary than any other.

[Swiffness]

I haven't seen the word yet, so I'll just throw it out there:

AFGHANISTAN.

We're still at war. And the Taliban are no fucking (am i allowed to swear? ah, OK, thanks Dam  ) joke.

You sign up, you'll get more than free college.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Bite me, box.

Whoo-hoo, already mit de sveet tok?