Okay, I have a problem here...

[Destina Faroda]

I have an acquaintace who has an 18 year old daughter who is residing with him in his house.  She pays no rent, is unhelpful around the house, and is just an aggravating person.  At the beginning of this month (October) told her that she would have to leave by the end of the month.  She replied that she knew the law, bragged that she would not be going anywhere, either now or later.  He talked to the cops about this, but since she isn't doing anything illegal (not drinking, stealing, etc.), the cops said that he'd have to go through the eviction process.

As someone who is familiar with the eviction process, I know that it's difficult to win one of these cases if there's nothing written (there isn't in this case), and that the daughter can lie and state she never received any notice if one is given in the future (unless it's sent from the house to the house via certified mail).  Also, in landlord/tenant cases, you have to have a reason to evict someone.  There was no expectation or rent or any other agreement for labor, so as a result it might be even hard to prove there was a lease (which is necessary to reclaim possession).  Plus, the daughter can appeal, and it can be several months before legally, she is forced out the house...and continue to suck up electricity, water, etc. in the interim.

What I'm wondering if there is any other recourse, at least in the state of Pennsylvania?  I know tons of parents who kicked their kids out without any legal hassle, but this daughter is very savvy.

[Darkmoon]

Dam would know better about this than I would, but the simple fact is that, while it's true there is no expectation of rent or help around the house, if she doesn't have a contract to stay in the house, and is of legal age, she also has no recourse if he decides to change the locks one day while she's out.

Problem solved. Then, if she breaks a window to get in, she's breaking and entering.

[Destina Faroda]

That's what I thought, at first.  However, from what little I've looked into similar situations, that doesn't seem to be the case, because she is a legal resident of the domicile.  I'm pretty sure "no lease" doesn't mean no agreement, but defaults to "month-to-month."  In fact, if he did change the locks, he could not only be made to take them off, but she could sue him for wrongfully blocking access to her residency or something like that, putting him in a worse position than before.

[Drayco84]

^^^But in the meantime, she has to park her butt somewhere else.

Alternatively, she's over 18, so it's no longer "abusing a minor" if he suddenly takes up spanking her brat ass. (I dunno the laws on that, though.) Plus, I'm pretty sure that no contract/rental agreement means NO obligations on his part.

Another, also serious problem, is that it sounds like the parent is afraid of the child now, and is thus ROYALLY screwed. If he doesn't even TRY to call her bluff, then he's just gonna be his daughter's doormat for the rest of his life. (As a 20-something still living with my parents and NO kids, I could easily be mistaken, though.)

[Valynth]

Here's the course of action:

1. Inform daughter she has two weeks to get her stuff and find another place or start helping/paying.
2. Laugh if daughter seeks to sue and state who owns the deed/lease and point out that no one who had children would ever side with her in court.
3. Kick daughter out after 2 weeks if she hasn't stepped up/paid rent.
4. If daughter seeks to sue she has pretty much just saddled herself with massive court costs and ruined her future all by herself. (see point 2)


since there was no agreement she's technically squatting on his property and it only lasts so long as he decides to tolerate it.  He has to right to evict squatters if he gives notice and if they remain after that notice, they're trespassing and as such he can use any means necessary to evict her, same as if she had broken in. This is because the legal resident (AKA the one who's name is on the deed/lease) has revoked her welcome and as such she is an unwelcome intruder in his home.

Remember:  As far as the law is concerned, the only legal resident of a home is the one who owns and is registered to the deed/lease.

added bonus:  He gets any of her possesions she leaves in her room after the mentioned date.

[Castle Pokemetroid]

If she's 18, wouldn't that mean that she's fresh out of high school, or at least a year after graduating?

If that's the case, shouldn't she be in college, preparing herself for a career?

If you don't expose someone to the real world, what's the chances that they'll ever step into it?

The only real future she'll have is if she manages to marry someone rich.

Someone needs to hit her over the head with a bat of reality.

[Damaris]

After looking about online a bit, your friend should definitely talk to the clerk of the county courts in the county about the eviction process. It's possible that they can serve the eviction notice, so that she officially receives them.

If the police say that the eviction procedures are needed, then that would be the right way to go about it - they aren't likely to remove her for trespassing.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

For what it's worth, I'd speak to legal aid about this, rather than the police. While the police have a layman's eye to the law, they're not paid to keep up with all the legal ins and outs; they're paid to keep the peace.

A lawyer/county clerk may be able to point your friend in the direction of some more useful statute. Or, indeed, as Damaris says, assist in supplying eviction notices, should that be the way to go.


I'd personally have thought that, as a parent, you can revoke access whenever you like, starting at adulthood - so the day they turn eighteen, you can change the locks, and that's just shit for them; anything they bought before then, assuming they haven't been working, is done with _your_ money, and hence rightfully belongs to you. But that's just me, and legal issues where your friend are may well be different to where I am.

... and even where I am, such an attitude might make you unwelcome in court, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Ratzel]

Or he could make her want to move out by being obnoxious. But seriously, sounds like he needs some leverage to make her want to leave. Does she even have a job? Maybe she doesn't want to leave because she can't or won't support herself. I'd stop paying for her stuff if she doesn't have a job maybe she'll leave on her own once forced to deal with the real world. Then again, the world is a scary place. I'd refuse to do stuff like washing the dishes and doing her laundry because she should get tired of it and do it herself.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... That's likely to backfire, Ratzel.

If you don't clean up the room, you tend to get invasions of pests. That can cause serious structural damage to the house, which is a lot more expensive to clean up than you might think. Same goes for not washing dishes - what she'll do is eat take-out (leaving the plates, bowls, cups, empty packets, forks, etc) in her room (see pests comment passim) or leave her dishes in the sink until you run out, at which point you'll be washing her dishes for her so you can eat.

So... All in all, not a good plan. And not a good place to be.

[Turnsky]

i'd go the cheap and easy solution: when she goes out, change the locks.

[VAE]

Was suggested

That's what I thought, at first.  However, from what little I've looked into similar situations, that doesn't seem to be the case, because she is a legal resident of the domicile.  I'm pretty sure "no lease" doesn't mean no agreement, but defaults to "month-to-month."  In fact, if he did change the locks, he could not only be made to take them off, but she could sue him for wrongfully blocking access to her residency or something like that, putting him in a worse position than before.

Also , stuff might be more complicated... i know for example that in Slovakia(where i am from), although you are adult by 18, the parents have some duties (example would be paying child's nutrition if divorced) until the kid is 25 or until he has a job, whatever is sooner... until that event you don't get the dole even if you are unemployed, and your parents still get child doses (money) from the state.

Also, not trying to aggravate anyone, but the situation strikes me as weird, at least with the level of detail provided.
I indeed know of similar cases, but in those, the kid in question was someone who drunk loads, or did drugs, while the OP seems to explicitly say this isn't the case...  

[Ratzel]

... That's likely to backfire, Ratzel.

If you don't clean up the room, you tend to get invasions of pests. That can cause serious structural damage to the house, which is a lot more expensive to clean up than you might think. Same goes for not washing dishes - what she'll do is eat take-out (leaving the plates, bowls, cups, empty packets, forks, etc) in her room (see pests comment passim) or leave her dishes in the sink until you run out, at which point you'll be washing her dishes for her so you can eat.

So... All in all, not a good plan. And not a good place to be.

True, I didn't think of that... But if she has no income she can't order take-out also can't move out. As a 20-something year old still living with my parents I try to help out around the house and I pay rent, I don't know what other kind of advice to give other than finding some way of making her want to leave, but if she has no income she can't move out without living on the streets. I'd have to say I don't have enough detail and understanding of the situation.

[Alondro]

I could be hired to take of this... biology is... useful... 

[Brunhidden]

that might qualify as skulduggery rather then biology

[Lushin]

Iunno if this will help but if she stays at a friend's house or with other family members for 48 hours he can legally say she doesn't live there anymore and kick her out. I know people who did something like this to an ex who wouldn't leave. Also I don't know if she has a cellphone or anything but another thing that can be done is stop paying her bills. Stop giving her money so she can go out, don't loan her the car and just basically shut her off from his money. Also I would go with what the others are saying, talk to someone in a court. When she has is issued the paperwork just have the person to give the papers to her in person. That way if she says she never got them the person can say they where served and are lying, even if she choose not to read them. Also don't let any of her friends in the house. If she tries to invite friends over tell them to leave, he has the last say of who is allowed in HIS house, just cause she lives there doesn't mean she has any type of ownership. Her friends can be arrested for tresspassing if they come over after he told them they can never come over again.

[Alondro]

that might qualify as skulduggery rather then biology

Pretty much the same thing, really... *hides secret projects of biological evil!*