10/23/09 [CVRPG III #1109] - Small compared to what?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I have a mild interest...

... what _is_ the difference between full and field plate? And half plate, for that matter?

[Darkmoon]

As per AD&D (going from memory):

Half Plate (aka Plate Mail) implies a breast plate with some hip/groin coverage overtop of a layer of chain mail.

Full Plate implies head to toe coverage including plated glove and boot covers, a full helmet, and an almost full body chain suit as well.

Field Plate could almost be considered 3/4 Plate, as it covers more of the body (arm coverage, leg coverage), but doesn't have the full helmet, and doesn't weight quite as much as the full suit.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Dang. Full plate is heavy enough as it is, without putting chain under it...

[Darkmoon]

All plate mail had chain. The plat would stop many blows, but arrows could pierce the plates. Chain was better suited for stopping arrows.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Heh.

I always figured Terry Pratchett had it right - to an arrow, chainmail is just a big series of holes...


I guess not. Admittedly, that went on to say the arrow in question was aimed at an eyeball from about 3 inches away. ;-]

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

It's somewhat misleading to say "Arrow". There's a world of difference between a bodkin point and a bronze broadhead that would have been used to hunt deer and the like.

I've never seen an arrow with a small enough head  that it can fire in between the holes of a chain hauberk. However, if you hit hard enough, over a small enough area, you can often rupture the mail.  Chain depends on the strength of the interlocking links to repel blows, but if you apply a lot of force to a tiny area, you can often punch through a link or two.

While all plate mail (Note, the full name really ought to be "Plate and Mail" but most people don't want to bother saying that)  had chain link undercoats, but that was mostly due to the rather simple fact that steel plates don't bend very well, and you often had chain covering joints, and places where the armor was strapped together.


Arrows could pierce solid plate, like at Crecy and some portions of Agincourt. (If I get started on Agincourt stuff, I'll be here all day), but it wasn't easy, wasn't a sure thing, and it's harder to hit a man moving on horseback (most people who could afford full plate and mail would have enough money for a horse as well, and lets face it, that stuff is *heavy*, much easier to fight if something's carrying you). British longbowmen during the hundred year's war were trained to fire in a high arching pattern, so the arrow was falling almost straight down when it hit the armor, adding quite a bit of force. It was hardly a sure thing to get through the plate, and was probably easier to punch through a link, if you had a bodkin arrow (one of those ones with a very, very narrow point and a large, tapering head), but then again, Bodkins were invented relatively late in the history of archery, first appearing circa 13th century.


Uhm, yes, right, the point.  Full plate was pretty damn tough, and was used well into the seventeenth century, when armor of the day could stop early bullets. (The term "bulletproof" comes from the practice of firing into a newly created breastplate at close range with a pistol, to demonstrate that the armor could stand up to firearms.) The main problems with the stuff were expense and craftsmanship. A human body isn't really flat, which would have made for easier craftsmanship. Building a suit of plate typically had to be form fitted, and if it got dented or damaged, you'd often need to be sawed out of your own armor. But I can't really think of a situation where I'd rather have a set of chain links than a solid plate of the same thickness at the point of impact. Mail was usually used in places where solid plate was impractical.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

But I can't really think of a situation where I'd rather have a set of chain links than a solid plate of the same thickness at the point of impact. Mail was usually used in places where solid plate was impractical.

On a boat, for example, or where you might have to swim. It's quite hard to get out of armour while holding your breath underwater... ;-]

... remind me to talk to you (listen to, might be more accurate) about Agincourt somewhere else, some other time...