Questions About the Comic Process.

[Mystiqe]

Dunno if this is the right place or not, but since it's pointed at DMFA I'm just guessing.

And I suppose this would be directed at Amber, but everyone else is more then allowed to pitch their two cents.

Anywho.

I'm just oddly curious about how one goes about making the comic page. And this is to you, Amber. Do you script out every arc before hand then draw it out? Or do scripting per page while you're working with them? (I.E. fly by the seat of your pants and just go along with a general plan of action.)

I'm quite curious as to I'm trying to get a comic or two off the ground, and I don't really know the better way to approach >.<

And curiosity hits me again. Do you draw each comic page out on one sheet of paper (loose leaf paper or sketchbook?) and then ink and scan and color? @-@

Thanks for viewing to all that do. Sorry for being a curious little bugger C:

[Technoire]

I wonder if I can help in this department. My line of artwork is a little different from Amber's, but I used Adobe programs for a while in my younger days, so I'll tell you what I remember.
Things to do before even starting to draw your comic: On the cheapest paper you've got, draw a very rough, ugly draft of the comic. Lay out your panels and your text, sketch stick-drawings of where each character and piece of environment needs to be, and keep this by your side the whole time during actual composition.

Most of my comic work was done on the computer, and it looks like Amber's is done in a similar fashion.
Observing DMFA as a whole, you can see Amber's lines got more defined over time and she's now got such a fool-proof colouring technique down that it looks almost... mechanical.
I haven't done a lot in the way of comic work recently, but I used to! and I make half of my living as a graphic designer (vector). So, I can likely give a few pointers.

If you look through Amber's wallpapers and peek at the hi-res ones, you can see a lot of her detail in colouring. The lineart itself is simple; She knows where to put important details in the lineart, and creates the rest of the depth with the colouring itself. If you took away the colours, the lineart itself would be very vague and with lots of wide open spaces. That girl knows how to create dimension with colour instead of killing people with a detailed lineart. (Detail can be good, but it's a plus not to get carried away with putting that all in your lineart and learning to create dimension and depth with your shading.) An effective way to create the best detail in colouring would be to scan each piece of art at 300dpi,  and make your original document as big as your computer will allow you to work effectively. This way you can zoom in really close, lasso-off small spaces and darken them as you wish.
You can make a separate document for each panel so you can work as big as you need, and then size each panel down when it comes time to merge them all into one strip.

A rundown of what I do (and it wouldn't surprise me if Amber has some of the same habits):
-Two options for lineart.
1. Draw your character, refine her, erase any unnecessary pencil smudges and guidelines. You can sketch in coloured lead like Amber does and then ink it with a fine point, and any bumps in the lines are easy to touch up in Photoshop. Scan your work at a really high resolution and get rid of your sketchings in Photoshop (i.e. for blue lead, select the entire Blue Colour Range and erase it, and you can effectively isolate the lineart.)
2. My personal preference, which works best with a tablet, is to draw the lineart entirely in Photoshop. Create a layer  for sketching (which by the end of the process looks like a wireframe), and you can also lay down a profile for where to shade the final product. Make a layer above this for the actual lineart, and draw that with the Freeform Pen Tool*. When you finish it, right click it and choose "Make Selection", which will select the entire path. Colour over it in black with only the path selected, and you'll have an outline. You can keep the vector path for the outline and just turn off visibility on it, that way if you ever need to make the lineart bigger rather than smaller, you can erase the outline, resize the vector path and colour over it again in an easy click, keeping all the detail instead of pixelizing everything.

-Colouring can be done on a different layer, behind the lineart but above the sketch. (You can keep the sketch visible at like a 60% opacity too look at your original guidelines for colouring & shading while you work.) It's good to make a palette of colours for each character so you don't have to input any RGB values every time (or CYMK if you're a freak like me. x.x) For different shades within a colour, you can use the freeform/magnetic/etc Lasso to select where you want to colour, and put on a second layer of colour with a Multiply setting or whichever mode of depth blows your skirt up.
For more colouring depth, you can make a new layer at 60%-ish and use the Lasso again to select where to put subtle gradient overlays.

Amber's background look to be done in photoshop from how crisp the basic shapes are. You can build scenery (doors, windows, etc) with any of the vector path tools in Photoshop instead of on paper, and save yourself the confusion of having penciled in your entire environment, thus having to remember what piece is what colour. Also effective because you can link all layers of your foreground (characters & important props) together, and turn off visibility on them to work in the background for a little while.

Text is something I find should ALWAYS be added last. That way, if you have the text properly in place but it collides with characters, you can resize them to your liking and move the text wherever.


*There's very little vector support in Photoshop, but that doesn't mean you can't use it as a crutch. The Pen Tool when used with a good tablet can make some really crisp, defined shapes that would be much more jagged and wavy if just drawn with the tablet pen and brush tool. Make sure you've got your Pen Tool set up so that it doesn't try to fill anything in -- Simply put, Pixel Imaging:Drawing on paper :: Vector imaging:Cutting shapes out of paper, so with vector tools you're NEVER drawing a lineart, you're drawing the space inside it. If you want to use Photoshop's (admittedly barbaric) vector tools in conjuction with raster, go to the "Paths" tab in the Layer window, right click whatever vector path you would like to use as the outline for your character, and click "Trace Path". (This might be called "Make Selection" or something, or "Convert Path To Selection", in newer versions of Photoshop - I haven't used Adobe products since Photoshop7 and Illustrator9). This option basically traces your vector path with w brush tool of whatever width you last used, as well as whatever foreground colour you currently have set, so make sure your Brush Tool is set at 5px or however wide you need. Also make sure your foreground colour is black or something easily distinguishable against your colouring layer.



Wow, I've just realized that all this advice would probably help you a lot more if I were any good at explaining. Or, consequentially, if I made you a quick tutorial...
Hmm...

Shoot. I'm sorry if this was confusing at all, but I hope it gave you some ideas.

[Turnsky]

don't quote me on this, i'm only sorting out the light/shading in my own head, since i prolly use a similar technique.

from what i can tell, Amber uses a cel shading technique with an extra layer for detail shading, either a dark blue or black on multiply layers of varying opacity.. for the highlights? possibly a white color or the same as the base color underneath on a low opacity possibly set to 'screen' or 'lighten'.

i've always envied how Amber colors eyes, such jewel-ish, shiny eyes.

[Tapewolf]

I haven't seen many multilayers from Amber, but with Jakob in my avatar, what I saw was something like this.
Firstly, she seems to scan the lineart and convert it straight into 1-bit monochrome.  If she does what I do, she probably uses a threshold filter to ensure that none of the blue pencil leaks in.
In Jakob, she seems put the black lines at the back, and then the colouring (which would probably have included the black lines in it if I'd said - she did coloured lines which I'm not actually fond of).  The colouring was all in one layer.  I don't know if it was originally multilayer and collapsed (a 'stem mix' in recording parlance) or whether it was all done that way.

What I do is similar.  Usually I already get the lineart in 1bpp format.  If I'm working from a sketch, I use a combination of gamma curves and threshold filter to reduce the pencil to monochrome and then clean it up until it's more like it's been inked.
I keep the original on the back layer, then created another layer where I've carved out the characters and removed the background.
Then I duplicate that into another layer where I colour it with flood-fill.  What shading I do is then added to another layer, either as darkness/brightness layers (as with the Keaton/Kipiru collaboration) or as a straight layer on top.

[Mao]

[lots of good stuff...]
Girls knows how to create dimension with colour instead of killing people with a detailed lineart.
[lots more good stuff]

Thanks for all of the interesting and incredibly useful information here, but I have to ask, what did you intend to say here?  There are two possibilities and one isn't very nice.

[Technoire]

Just a typo. Settle down there, turbo.
Although if you were thinking I was hinting at the obvious superiority of the female race.... ^_~

Come on, you know you wish you could catapult out stuff the size of a watermelon and still walk afterward.
Imagine the stuff you could hide up there...
Juice boxes... Tommy guns... Skeleton keys... Balloons full of crack-cocaine (we do not recommend you try this at home)...
It's like a kangaroo's pouch, almost.



I am so going to someone's hell when I die.

Aforementioned typo fixed. Thanks for your eagle eye, mister. G'night! &hearts;

[Mao]

I wasn't getting worked up about it, just asking.  I've had to deal with some ignorance concerning gender of late so I was merely asking.  If I was getting worked up about it and I'd be screaming bloody murder by now.

That aside, you wouldn't happen to have any suggestions on how to translate your tutorial into something a GIMP newb like myself could use would you?  I have no problems trying to look it up myself, but lord knows the number of mistranslations I would make.

Most folks would just say to 'get' Photoshop, but I don't consider that an option.  I can't afford it, and I'm not fond of the alternative.

[Tapewolf]

That aside, you wouldn't happen to have any suggestions on how to translate your tutorial into something a GIMP newb like myself could use would you?  I have no problems trying to look it up myself, but lord knows the number of mistranslations I would make.

I don't think GIMP has vector tool support at present.  It has bezier curves (which I've never got the hang of) and it has line tools (hold down SHIFT in freehand mode), but that's about it.

Unless I'm missing something, most of the rest of what she's suggested is layer tricks which are pretty straightforward.  You can get at the layer dialogue through the menus or with CTRL-L.  This dialogue allows you to add/delete/duplicate layers, shuffle them around, set their opacity and operating mode (usually 'normal', but can also be made to darken, brighten and umpteen other effects).

Is that any help?

[Mao]

Layers I can handle.  Not well, but I can handle them.  The few coloring attempts I've done actually followed a process similar to what you've described with the layers.

I've done some looking after posting that, the Path tool might be able to do some of that (I think that's the same as the bezier thing, didn't look into it too closely) and if that's the case.. I haven't gotten the hang of it either.

[Kage]

First off, as Amber would often say, Don't Do it!

You do not need the line art abilities of Photoshop to make clean lines, so yes you can do it in GIMP if you wanted to....

As for the actual process of making a comic page:

• Start with a script of some sort.
  This doesn't have a to be a detailed script but start out with something that will give you some sort of blue print of the overall page.   E.g. number of frames, what's going on in each frame and the dialog.
  Having the dialog is handy for estimating how much space you want to leave for the word balloons.
• Draw some rough frames in a sketch book some place, or use a tablet and <insert favorite graphics program here>.
  This will help you figure out the sense of the flow, is easy to change, and gives you the rough to start with when you get to do your actual panels
• Next, draw the panels, then ink.

At this point things can go a bit differently depending on your work style.

If you are doing traditional art, all the way, and wish to color, then you may want to add the word ballons before you start coloring.

If you are going digital for the coloring (or just adding the balloons digitially):  Color first, then add the balloons.

The computer basics of coloring are as follows:

• Draw your line art using whatever method best suits you.
• Scan (if needed)
• Color under your art (if you wish to color your work).  There are a couple of different ways to do this, the simplest is to create color layer(s) under the line art layer.  Setting the layer to "multiply" is a simple way to make the black lines stay black, and the white parts transparent.

How you go about applying your digital colors varies by taste.  As mentioned previously, Amber tends to do cell shading.  You can also shading using multiply/dodge/screen tools which are nice ways to darken and lighten colors in various ways, or you can paint a bit more traditionally by using multiple different colors.   Googling for "Photoshop lineart coloring" will yeild a plethora of different detailed tutorials on the subject.   Deviant Art also has a multitude of different tutorials on their site.

In the traditional world, you could use markers, pencils, paint, whatever to color if you so chose.  I've seen some beautiful comics done with traditional paint.  Japanese Manga artists, and my personal preference are to use markers.....  I love markers!

Photoshop's line art tools are handy for making some nice word balloons, which is what I use, but you can also hand letter your comic.

However you decide to letter, make sure that you use a readable font when you do letter.  You can get some really nice free fonts from BlamBot.

Hope this helps!

[Turnsky]

now that i've had a chance to mull it over a bit, here's how i approach writing, it does kinda fly in the face of other advice given here.


It's largely by the seat of my pants.
Although this time i do have a plot outline, it's my ultimate goal, and most of how i'll get there is in my head to a degree.
as for dialog.... eeeeeh, also, some idea, i generally "script" each page out at the sketch stage, i have some inking about what's being said, or rather, the context, but i make it up as i go along.

i do have notes in order to keep my worldtheory straight, though.. but that's neither here nor there.

[Mao]

And curiosity hits me again. Do you draw each comic page out on one sheet of paper (loose leaf paper or sketchbook?) and then ink and scan and color? @-@

This is actually what I've been doing and have often wondered how others do it.  I know Turn does it out all on one sheet with the panels drawn in on what looks like the fly, though he does all of his stuff digitally iirc.  I think he said he at one point did it all traditionally though.

As for the paper used for me, I found some nice unlined loose leaf paper that has worked out well, but due to my fear of screwing up I do it like this:  Draw pencils out on unlined loose leaf, use a thin sheet of vellum paper (tracing paper) to ink on (thus preserving the original in case I f' it up), scan, clean and then if I'm up to it, color.

[Turnsky]

And curiosity hits me again. Do you draw each comic page out on one sheet of paper (loose leaf paper or sketchbook?) and then ink and scan and color? @-@

This is actually what I've been doing and have often wondered how others do it.  I know Turn does it out all on one sheet with the panels drawn in on what looks like the fly, though he does all of his stuff digitally iirc.  I think he said he at one point did it all traditionally though.

As for the paper used for me, I found some nice unlined loose leaf paper that has worked out well, but due to my fear of screwing up I do it like this:  Draw pencils out on unlined loose leaf, use a thin sheet of vellum paper (tracing paper) to ink on (thus preserving the original in case I f' it up), scan, clean and then if I'm up to it, color.

back in the day i used a single sheet of A4 paper, appropriately ruled... a Stainless steel metal ruler is a godsend in this case, as it's durable, and very low profile.
these days, yeah, all digital. Truth be told it's generally wise to do the whole comic on a single page, trust me on this, scanning each panel in turn is an exercise in tedium, 'cuz you haveta compile them into the one image in photoshop, too.

[Kage]

And curiosity hits me again. Do you draw each comic page out on one sheet of paper (loose leaf paper or sketchbook?) and then ink and scan and color? @-@

This is actually what I've been doing and have often wondered how others do it.  I know Turn does it out all on one sheet with the panels drawn in on what looks like the fly, though he does all of his stuff digitally iirc.  I think he said he at one point did it all traditionally though.

As for the paper used for me, I found some nice unlined loose leaf paper that has worked out well, but due to my fear of screwing up I do it like this:  Draw pencils out on unlined loose leaf, use a thin sheet of vellum paper (tracing paper) to ink on (thus preserving the original in case I f' it up), scan, clean and then if I'm up to it, color.

back in the day i used a single sheet of A4 paper, appropriately ruled... a Stainless steel metal ruler is a godsend in this case, as it's durable, and very low profile.
these days, yeah, all digital. Truth be told it's generally wise to do the whole comic on a single page, trust me on this, scanning each panel in turn is an exercise in tedium, 'cuz you haveta compile them into the one image in photoshop, too.

Traditional comic books are drawn on a single sheet of 11x17" bristol board (or similar) paper that is then scaled down to about 60% of its original size.  If you do plan to actually print your comic you'll need to account for printing margins and the like.  So don't put anything important on those full bleeds at the edge of the paper, or it might get cut when it gets printed.

If you want to do actual inking I recommend that you experiment with a few different types of paper, but in general I've found that typing and sketch book paper are very absorbent and will make your inks bleed.  The reason I use Bristol board for almost everything I do now is because the inks don't bleed much and it keeps the edges of my lines nice and crisp.

EDIT:  If you want, you can also get preruled paper from places like this, this plus a T-Square can help you make some very nice looking frames.

[Mystiqe]

Ah, thank you, everyone C:

I'll have to read over everything more carefully, and see if I can make good use of the FANTASTIC advice that you've given me. Thank you once again <3

[Tapewolf]

I'll have to read over everything more carefully, and see if I can make good use of the FANTASTIC advice that you've given me. Thank you once again <3

Probably one of the most important tips is to have the speech bubbles and dialogue on its own separate layer.  That way, if you need to change it or move it around you can.
It's also handy if you ever need to do an audio slideshow or something without the speech bubbles as you can turn them off (instead of painstakingly redrawing the bit underneath them like I do with DMFA).

I use a program called Comiclife to do the panelling and captioning.  IIRC it comes free with the bundled software on the Macintosh, but there is also a shareware version for Windows.

[Mystiqe]

Oh cool, I'll look it up C:

[Mystiqe]

Actually, do you have a link for the shareware?

[Tapewolf]

Actually, do you have a link for the shareware?

http://plasq.com/comiclife-win

...It's a 30-day trial, I think.  I have to admit I've never used the Windows version myself.  It might be terrible

[Toast]

Hey. I know this is probably a dead topic but I thought I'd jump in too. x3
I'm working on a comic now and I think I'm at the same point you are - do I script everything or not? I've done two comics before having a general idea of where I want to go with them, but no real script. I failed both times. I guess it's entirely up to you when it comes to that.
I've spoken with a bunch of people in the comic field and a lot of them say that they come up with a script at least a week in advance, then they do little thumbnail sketches - either online or offline, 4 inches being the biggest they do - and then expand that on their computers, do a rough over it, lineart over that, and then color and lighting. Text always comes last, although you should have thought bubbles in the thumbnail sketch so you know where you want to put them.

[Kage]

Hey. I know this is probably a dead topic but I thought I'd jump in too. x3
I'm working on a comic now and I think I'm at the same point you are - do I script everything or not? I've done two comics before having a general idea of where I want to go with them, but no real script. I failed both times. I guess it's entirely up to you when it comes to that.
I've spoken with a bunch of people in the comic field and a lot of them say that they come up with a script at least a week in advance, then they do little thumbnail sketches - either online or offline, 4 inches being the biggest they do - and then expand that on their computers, do a rough over it, lineart over that, and then color and lighting. Text always comes last, although you should have thought bubbles in the thumbnail sketch so you know where you want to put them.

It really depends on your style of working.  If you're finding yourself floundering with your story (as I often do), then it might be wise to at least build an outline of your overall story.   Anything more detailed than an outline is probably for a specific page/book that needs to get done and may include your actual dialog.  From talking with Amber, I believe she has a rough idea where she wants to go with her comic, but mostly wings it.  Now the strips themselves get a bit more of a detailed script before she starts, but I don't think she spends all that much time writing them up.   My scripts are usually right in my sketch book and just have the dialog that I intend to use  (though sometimes I change it at the last second if I think of something better).

Again, find what works best for you.

[Tapewolf]

Strictly this should have been started as a new thread for two reasons I can think of offhand.  Anyway, I don't know if this helps, it's not quite the same thing.

Project Future was originally written as a short story, which I published a chapter for every fortnight.  I had the basic outline for six chapters (which IIRC are approximately 1900 words each... I had a target of at least 10'000 bytes UNIX format).

When the first six chapters were completed I wasn't really sure where to go - which is why the seventh chapter suddenly introduces a new character - but the story had by that point reached a tipping point where it was able to write itself for the next few chapters simply from the character interactions and consequences of what had occurred.
From thereon I was able to keep it ticking over and improving by coming up with new ideas (which were often a spin on real-life ideas and exploring what they might be like in Furrae).

It turns out that each chapter would break down to about 6-10 pages depending on the type of content, so if you do a written story -> comic conversion you can generate a fairly large amount of material.  This does have the slight disadvantage that when you come up with a 'bum' chapter, it means you're going to be stuck with it for several weeks of the comic.  That said, you can try to fix things in the comic version which you weren't so happy with the first time around.