Tolerance issues!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

llearch- yes that is the movie, and i believe the entire thing was cut up into small youtubeable pieces if you're willing to watch over ten consecutive ten minute segments

This is what playlists are for.

[Alondro]

I am intolerant of this topic.   

[superluser]

i feel that hollywood in general is intolerant towards the bad guy... they almost never win... and lets be honest, some of them are just soo awesome you really want them to win too

That actually goes back to the Hays Code:

I. No picture shall be produced which will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrong-doing, evil or sin.

This is done:

1. When evil is made to appear attractive and alluring, and good is made to appear unattractive.

2. When the sympathy of the audience is thrown on the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil, sin. The same is true of a film that would thrown sympathy against goodness, honor, innocence, purity or honesty.

Note: Sympathy with a person who sins is not the same as sympathy with the sin or crime of which he is guilty. We may feel sorry for the plight of the murderer or even understand the circumstances which led him to his crime: we may not feel sympathy with the wrong which he has done. The presentation of evil is often essential for art or fiction or drama. This in itself is not wrong provided:

  a. That evil is not presented alluringly. Even if later in the film the evil is condemned or punished, it must not be allowed to appear so attractive that the audience's emotions are drawn to desire or approve so strongly that later the condemnation is forgotten and only the apparent joy of sin is remembered.

  b. That throughout, the audience feels sure that evil is wrong and good is right.

[Alondro]

That really can't apply to films like "Underworld" and "Alien vs Predator", since in both cases both sides were technically bad guys. 

And in the 1970's version of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", the aliens won.

[superluser]

That really can't apply to films like "Underworld" and "Alien vs Predator", since in both cases both sides were technically bad guys. 

And in the 1970's version of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", the aliens won.

Good thing those were made after the Hays Code ended, then.

[Brunhidden]

in a way we are also being flooded by the antihero scenerio- all these shows with a cerial killer as the protagonist, the main character having a debilitating mental ailment that forces them to be a jackass, and of course the vampires are people too kind of movie


the bad guys can be the good guys sometimes, but occasionally they do win. its more dramatic and all around better because of its rarity and difficulty



anyone who has read 'villains by necessity' will know what im talking about. and if you haven't, go read it, now. also start a petition for someone good to make this into a movie

[Omega]

And in the 1970's version of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", the aliens won.

Thanks for spoiling that, jerk 

anyone who has read 'villains by necessity' will know what im talking about. and if you haven't, go read it, now. also start a petition for someone good to make this into a movie

Is there a some way to get it as an e-book?

[Baal Hadad]

Since this is about tolerance issues, a certain issue has occurred to me that presents me with a bit of a dilemma.  I mean no offense to anyone when I say this (and hope it isn't going overboard as far as topic is concerned) but:

While I have traditionally considered myself sympathetic to transsexuals and lamenting the fact that I haven't seen them portrayed accurately in any media (don't know why, being neither transsexual myself nor knowing anyone who is--guilty liberalism, maybe?), it has only recently occurred to me (not based on anything anyone else said) that they can be compared in my mind to people who get cosmetic surgery (liposuction, botox, etc.), something I have NO sympathy for.

For awhile I tried to resist such a comparison, going so far as to try to come up with an argument that would allow me to sympathize with transsexuals that couldn't apply to cosmetic surgery patrons--and I haven't been able to come up with anything.  Each argument I made, I was able to come up with a counter-argument.  I personally am against surgery in general where it isn't necessary for your health or your life (personally, meaning I don't care so much if it's someone else getting the surgery but I don't want it myself), but the only way to consider sex change operations in that category is to stretch the definitions: "health" meaning emotional and not just physical health, even though surgery is decidedly physical, and "life" meaning the individual might commit suicide without the surgery--but that's an active decision, not directly due to the individual's condition.  And no matter what, I don't have sympathy for people who get cosmetic surgery, and don't intend to ever do so.

I guess my point here is that I don't quite know how I feel about the matter now: I don't want to be against transsexual rights, but I don't know, given that I've discovered my own double standard, how I can do otherwise without being sympathetic for cosmetic surgery (which I don't want to do either).  I don't want to appear unsympathetic, but neither to I want to be afraid to speak my mind because people might perceive me that way.

If someone can give me a convincing argument that I can't counter-argue, great--otherwise, I wonder what other people might think of this (and apologies if the topic is too risque or if it's been addressed elsewhere--these are large forums, and I'm new here).

[superluser]

If someone can give me a convincing argument that I can't counter-argue, great--otherwise, I wonder what other people might think of this (and apologies if the topic is too risque or if it's been addressed elsewhere--these are large forums, and I'm new here).

I can give you a good counter-argument.  It's not iron-clad, but it's not swiss cheese, either.

What do you say to women who get breast cancer, have mastectomies and then have breast implants to make them feel whole again?  Or people who get into accidents and have facial reconstructive surgery?

From what transsexuals say, having the wrong sex for your sexual identity is like having a deformed part of your body, and sex change makes them feel whole again.

Would you deny such surgery to one but not the other?  My philosophy is that so long as I don't have to pay for it, experience it, or watch it, I don't care what you do to your own body.

[Baal Hadad]

I can give you a good counter-argument.  It's not iron-clad, but it's not swiss cheese, either.

What do you say to women who get breast cancer, have mastectomies and then have breast implants to make them feel whole again?  Or people who get into accidents and have facial reconstructive surgery?

From what transsexuals say, having the wrong sex for your sexual identity is like having a deformed part of your body, and sex change makes them feel whole again.

Would you deny such surgery to one but not the other?  My philosophy is that so long as I don't have to pay for it, experience it, or watch it, I don't care what you do to your own body.

Thank you for the argument, and it sounded good until I realized that there's one flaw with it: a transsexual is born that way, while the people you speak of aren't born with their conditions.  I suppose if someone were born without a face and wanted facial "reconstructive" surgery it would be closer to the mark, though, so it's something of a help.

Incidentally, I want to make it clear that I don't oppose surgery for someone else in the sense of opposing legislation that would allow such surgeries, or supporting legislation that would ban them--I'm speaking more about being personally sympathetic vs. frowning upon it.  As you say, and as I said earlier, I don't have to care as long as it's not my body getting the surgery.

[Brunhidden]

when a longtime acquaintance of mine decided to swap genders it came as quite a shock to me. for a while i didn't even comprehend what had happened, and for over a year i had vocabulary failure- after five years of using male pronouns you cant switch overnight to female without a few flubbs. however i don't judge her, its entirely her own body and her own choice and she knows full well that she willingly signed up for the hardships along the road.

i offer her support, though i have only a dim grasp of the situation. i offer her a shoulder to cry on and a sympathetic ear when the world is too much for her to handle without swinging a punch. she is my acquaintance of many years, regardless of what pronoun i use for her, and i am not so horrible a person to stop caring about someone just because they put on a skirt and wish to change themselves.

in some strange way i actually envy her, in that she has such courage and freedom of control over her own life that she could make such a drastic change and not really regret or look back




then again im not really in any position to judge, considering i am currently a housewife, my actual wife knows more about cars and sports then i would ever want to, i do 95% of the cooking and my wife has changed precicely one diaper in the last month, and i am only a pink apron away from having to hand in my testicles for a pair of ovaries. at least i have a beard and hairy arms to help people guess my gender

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

And in the 1970's version of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", the aliens won.

Thanks for spoiling that, jerk 

Given the original was published 52 years... sorry, 5_3_ years ago (dammit, where does the time go?), I don't think "spoiler" is quite the word for it. It's like spoiling the ending of Titanic by saying that the ship sinks; while technically accurate, it doesn't say anything about the story itself.

Thank you for the argument, and it sounded good until I realized that there's one flaw with it: a transsexual is born that way, while the people you speak of aren't born with their conditions.  I suppose if someone were born without a face and wanted facial "reconstructive" surgery it would be closer to the mark, though, so it's something of a help.

If it helps, replace the argument with "club foot" or "harelip" or something equally non-life-threatening. (if either of those leaves you in the dark, feel free to ask for enlightenment)

then again im not really in any position to judge, considering i am currently a housewife, my actual wife knows more about cars and sports then i would ever want to, i do 95% of the cooking and my wife has changed precicely one diaper in the last month, and i am only a pink apron away from having to hand in my testicles for a pair of ovaries. at least i have a beard and hairy arms to help people guess my gender

Heh. Remind me to ask Theora to get you a pink frilly apron, and post a pic of you wearing it. Just because I want to see the cognitive dissonance on the part of the forum-goers. ;-]

[Amber Williams]

I hate this entire thread so much.

Why hasn't anyone said something stupid enough to let me just lock it already?

[Paladin Sheppard]

Cause we exist to make your life a living hell? 

[Amber Williams]

Cause we exist to make your life a living hell? 

I shall consider this possibility.

[Tapewolf]

I hate this entire thread so much.

Why hasn't anyone said something stupid enough to let me just lock it already?

I hate furries.

[Amber Williams]

Well now you are just stating the obvious.  I mean really, who doesnt?  Freaking furries and their jiffing.

[Paladin Sheppard]

Well now you are just stating the obvious.  I mean really, who doesnt?  Freaking furries and their jiffing.

Fursecutor!!!  LOL

[Tapewolf]

Well now you are just stating the obvious.  I mean really, who doesnt?  Freaking furries and their jiffing.

Since that wasn't stupid enough I was so, so tempted to quote this.  But that would probably have counted as spamming and I'd have had to warn myself or something.

[Omega]

Freaking furries and their jiffing.

I find them somehow calming. Their off-this-world attitude is what I need in order to forget the cruel reality that binds us and makes us cynical to the core.

[Alondro]

*Charline pops in, violating the laws and therefore necessiating that this thread be locked at once!*  Here I am all you lucky people you!   

And I LOVE furries!  With BBQ sauce.   

*OMG!!! A VORE REFERENCE TOO!  LOCK THE THREAD!* 

No need to thank me Amber.     I would also have written this entire thing in L33t, but I don't know enough.

EDIT:  I COULD ALSO REDO IT ALL IN CAPS.

[Valynth]

Well now you are just stating the obvious.  I mean really, who doesnt?  Freaking furries and their jiffing.

Fursecutor!!!  LOL

*appears with a lit molotov cocktail in one hand*

No, no, That's just light-hearted fun.

*tosses the cocktail into a crowd of furries*

THAT'S fursecution...

Any one else care to join?  I've got crates of these things.

[bill]

ok i think this thread is done everyone say their goodbyes before it gets removed 

[Roureem Egas]

Okay.

Alas poor thread, we hardly knew ye!  

[Valynth]

hmmmm, I wonder if this was the longest non-arena thread...

Ahh well, doesn't matter.  Bye thread!

[bill]

never forget the brave sacrifice of this thread

actually it was a fucking shit thread fuck off you stupid shit

[Reese Tora]

Well now you are just stating the obvious.  I mean really, who doesnt?  Freaking furries and their jiffing.

Darn Jiffing!

Why can't you furries use Skippy like the rest of us?!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Reese: I always thought jif was a bathroom scourer liquid. That white liquid with little lumps in it.

[Sunblink]

I hate this entire thread so much.

Why hasn't anyone said something stupid enough to let me just lock it already?

I hate furries.

I hate furries too.

We have so much in common.

[bill]

all furries are being banned from the board