09/26/08 [Abel 2 #30] - Any Outcome Is Possible

[Pheonix-IV]

I think you are all missing the big point, the big point is that it's possible to defeat what basically amounts to precognition by being insane.

Remember also that insane does not necessarily mean running around screaming at clouds. One of my cousins is clinically insane, but you would never be able to tell. The best way i can describe it is he thinks at right angles to everyone else, 95% of the time he seems perfectly normal, but then he just does or says something completely out of the blue, it seems either random, appaling or downright scary to normal people, but it makes perfect sense to him.


I suspect Aniz is the same. He's quietly gone insane, and remember that what you see on the exterior has absolutely no bearing on what is going on in his mind.

[Kipiru]

Wow, Fa'lina looks genuinely concerned about Abel. I knew she isn't all that evil .

[icarus]

I suspect Aniz is the same. He's quietly gone insane, and remember that what you see on the exterior has absolutely no bearing on what is going on in his mind.

there is also always the fact that fa'lina may be using insane in the not-clinical sense. that he's just unhinged. cubi and beings both act certain ways, and aniz has begun to act in a way that neither cubi nor being understands. which is another way someone can be insane, without having to be diagnosed.

i think aniz is more of a desperate man than a 'lolol soup string zomg the voices talk 2 me' character. desperation (and hope) drive people to do things that are stupid and dangerous. he's always stuck one notch right under 'panic' mode. his irrational behavior driven by desperation and hope isn't even fully understood by him i don't think, he just DOES these things because he feels like it's the only choice open to him.

but deep down, he's not a very old cubi. he still acts like a child. he never managed to mature the way fa'lina has, and that has an even more adverse effect on his plans. an adult trying to 'farm' kids is screwed up, but they manage to control their emotions and keep their plan on track. aniz shoots off his mouth a lot, and acts on impulse a lot. that doesn't help.

masquerading as another person for so long probably became easy, really. after 20 years, you begin to accept the little changes in a person's personality. may could have just chalked it up to his gradual changing from when they had a child. abel never knew anyone else. for all we know, abel's "real" dad was a lot like dan, and aniz rewrote him to a character he was more at ease playing.

though the urge to quote tropic thunder IS amazingly strong here...

[MT Hazard]

On the whole 'loving father' part of his personality issue I'd say that part was killed by Aniz during his (apparently faked) heart attack. The death of one and the resurfacing of the original. That would explain why he managed to traumatise Abel so profoundly in a few minutes after a lifetime of being a good father, he is literally a different person.

That of the possibility that he ate and or copied Cid's soul/personality and then disposed of it when needed. But I'm sure this has already been discussed to death (then to undeath and resurrection)

[Dard]

I think Fa'Lina is lying.

I simply don't buy that Aniz is such a nutcase like she implies. Okay, he may be insane, but certainly not chaotic. If he were chaotic, he couldn't have done what he did, impersonating another for so many years.
It also doesn't sound right compared to her conversation with Aniz.

I do believe that she is sorry, and that she regrets lying, but she has another deal with Aniz that we don't know the specifics about. I think she is avoiding even every hint that she may in any way involved with Aniz and what he did, so she simply declared him a lunatic. I mean, we saw how furious she was because of what he did in the end, but she was okay with (and maybe even started) Aniz' whole disguise. Abel mustn't find that out.

And now, he wouldn't even suspect.

[Feather Dancer]

I'm pretty sure Abel will stay, it's logically the most sensible thing to do and given Fa'lina has openly admittedly Aniz's movements are getting erratic, it only pushes the point more. That said I hope he at least has the decency to send a note to May in some form that he's alive but may never be able to see her again for her own safety... Unless to her it feels like her child died the moment Abel was taken which given her expression and all it's like she lost hope.

C'mon Kira, whenever the hell you go to their house go cheer her up. That poor woman needs it more than ever.

[Tapewolf]

I think Fa'Lina is lying.

You're right, it doesn't quite jibe with the "Okay, Fa'lina, what is your game?" line.  You may have a point.  On the other hand, she hasn't flat-out said that he's insane, only that he's behaving very erratically.

As an aside, if Fa'Lina is telling Abel the full truth and that Aniz is liable to have some kind of nervous breakdown, there are two interesting implications.
Firstly, how does she know?  Does that mean that she can see past his mental shield?
Secondly, if Aniz is still around and hasn't been slain by Ti'Fiona or somesuch, is he now completely unhinged, or has he already had the breakdown and recovered his sanity?

If he has recovered, he might actually be a reasonably pleasant sort these days.  (But perhaps I'm overly obsessed with the idea of him redeeming himself.)

[Attic Rat]

Insanity must be incredibly hard to define. At what point does "deluded" become "delusional"?

My personal best guess is: If a person can show a rational process by which he arrives at a given conclusion for a given situation, then that person is not insane. Evil, perhaps. Criminal, perhaps. Even "operating on incorrect data" is possible, just so long as each step of thought proceeds directly from the one before.

Aniz was sane "one hundred years ago" but he isn't any more. Maybe he was desperate to solve a problem for which there is no solution, and eventually came to skip a few steps in his reasoning, to get the result he wanted.

Off-Topic: Wordplay - Being / Creature. A Being is technically one who simply "is", while a Creature is one who was created. Fun with words!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Off-Topic: Wordplay - Being / Creature. A Being is technically one who simply "is", while a Creature is one who was created. Fun with words!

... and doesn't that just imply all sorts of interesting theories about the history of Furrae...

[Ghostwish]

Okay, he may be insane, but certainly not chaotic. If he were chaotic, he couldn't have done what he did, impersonating another for so many years.

Why do so many people assume that chaotic beings are incapable of long-reaching plans? That's like saying they're incapable of cognitive thought.

You've obviously never run across a balrog lord, Dard. Pure chaos and pure evil wrapped in one bad mother-fer, but his plans? They can take dozens of millenia to come to fruition. Oh sure, in the short term he might be a tad impulsive, maybe a little erratic, but that doesn't mean he doesn't take a turn or two sitting at the drawing board.

And you don't have to be chaotic to be insane either. Plenty of so-called 'lawful' folk go bonkers too. Aniz? He strikes me as neutral evil. But yes, I can see him being quite bonkers too.

*puts his dice away*

[Dard]

You've obviously never run across a balrog lord, Dard. Pure chaos and pure evil wrapped in one bad mother-fer, but his plans? They can take dozens of millenia to come to fruition.

I wasn't aware that the Balrog of Moria had any plans. That he was released was just because the Dwarfs got too greedy, dug too deep and happened to find him.
I don't know what he was doing all that time, I don't have the books with me right now, but I always thought that he was sleeping all those millenia. After he became active, alle he did was drive the dwarfs out of Moria and haunt its halls. Again, no plan visible.

But even then: We could argue about  the term "chaotic".
Fa'Lina described him as totally unpredictable, so that she isn't able to forsee the future.
What we have seen was a bastard who is very predictable. Sure, Fa'Lina may not have forseen that particular outcome, but he was gone from SAIA for decades. Apart from that, in that her conversation with him, she knew exactly what makes him tick and used it against him.

But like I said, it is not just that feeling that her description of Aniz rings false considering what we saw of him before.
More important: She has a big and good motivation to lie to Abel.

[Amber Williams]

More important: She has a big and good motivation to lie to Abel.

And what motivation would that be?

[Ghostwish]

More important: She has a big and good motivation to lie to Abel.

And what motivation would that be?

Like a balerog out of the the fire... XD

[Alterationartist]

Aniz. You so craaaaaaazeh...
... *smack'd*

Whoo! A madman who's truly "mad". If only he was a man.

[Angel]

(WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS THINGS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT OFFEND SOME PEOPLE. PLEASE KNOW THAT I DON'T INTEND TO OFFEND ANYONE. THANK YOU.)

...This comic hits a little close to home for me. I've known people with bipolar disorder, and Aniz is beginning to remind me of the more unpleasant parts of this condition. The fact that up until Fa'Lina spoke of it, Aniz having poor mental health hadn't crossed my mind (not consciously, anyway; I thought he was just evil) adds to this.

I think part of Aniz's insanity must come from having so few members of his own clan left, resulting in paranoia. The irony is that Fa'Lina has gone through a much worse version of that, but she has reacted in a far healthier way. Then there's what Cog said about acting as someone else for so many years. The last idea is, though this seems a little far-fetched, that Aniz is the closest link to what cubi were like before attempting to work WITH civilization rather than attacking beings viciously and hiding in the shadows. He's one endpoint on the spectrum of how Cubi have been portrayed and are expected to act.

But anyways. Nice comic, can't wait to see what Abel decides.

[demecowen]

I think Fa'Lina is lying.

I simply don't buy that Aniz is such a nutcase like she implies. Okay, he may be insane, but certainly not chaotic. If he were chaotic, he couldn't have done what he did, impersonating another for so many years.
It also doesn't sound right compared to her conversation with Aniz.

I do believe that Fa'Lina is telling the truth.

She said that Aniz is bordering madness, that mean that Aniz is one or two step to crazy, but not enough to send him to crazyville. The proof that I see is when Aniz reveal himself to Abel and company at page 84 to 99.  He more than likely had a plan if Abel was a Cubi but when push came to shove(with Hennya push come to bite) He lost control of his own power and just kill withourt thinking. Which should be impossible for a 400+ years creature like Aniz. I mean you should spend at least one hundred year learning to control your power if your immortal or can live long.

It is possible during stressful situation, ie combat, a different personality can take over and retreat after stressful situation is over and the "original" personality take over and clean up the mess. In Aniz case where violence he needed to be done a different "Aniz" would take over to carry it out. With the possiblitly of having to kill Meg would be needed Fa'Lina would not know of Aniz would "flip out" if Abel does return to his mother. 

[Tapewolf]

I think part of Aniz's insanity must come from having so few members of his own clan left, resulting in paranoia. The irony is that Fa'Lina has gone through a much worse version of that, but she has reacted in a far healthier way.

We don't acually know that.  Remember, Fa'Lina is something like 9200 years old.  IIRC she disappeared for a while between having her clan die and founding SAIA... in 'Cubi terms that could be centuries.  Either way, it's possible that she did break down but then regained control of herself during that period.

[Pheonix-IV]

I think Fa'Lina is lying.

I simply don't buy that Aniz is such a nutcase like she implies. Okay, he may be insane, but certainly not chaotic. If he were chaotic, he couldn't have done what he did, impersonating another for so many years.
It also doesn't sound right compared to her conversation with Aniz.

I do believe that she is sorry, and that she regrets lying, but she has another deal with Aniz that we don't know the specifics about. I think she is avoiding even every hint that she may in any way involved with Aniz and what he did, so she simply declared him a lunatic. I mean, we saw how furious she was because of what he did in the end, but she was okay with (and maybe even started) Aniz' whole disguise. Abel mustn't find that out.

And now, he wouldn't even suspect.

I should point out that that's the thing about chaos. It's chaotic and unpredictable. In it's very nature chaos can come up with exactly the same numbers a million times in a row, and then never hit those numbers ever again.

But Aniz doesn't have to be chaotic to be insane (or crazy or whatever.) As i said, he could simply just think at right angles to normal people, like it might seem like taking over somones life and fathering a son for 20 years, then traumatically reversing the process, killing somone and running away with said son is a pretty loony plan, but it made perfect sense to Aniz.

That's the whole point about crazy, it doesn't mean running around talking to clouds (not always anyway), sometimes it can just mean that a few ideas or concepts which seem crazy or stupid to normal people seem to make perfect sense to the crazy one.

[Aleolus]

Hmmm, so Aniz is at the breaking point with his sanity?  That explains so much!  Like how he went berzerk when that one chick bit him and wound up slashing her to ribbons, or how it was he didn't profess his undying love that has grown for May!

Damn you Amber, give me my happy ending!

[Dagardo]

Damn you Amber, give me my happy ending!

Too bad you're surrounded by evil people and the like, which means simply put, no happy ending for you...

[DarkAudit]

Abel's Story is not conducive to happy endings.

Steamrollers, yes. But not happy endings.

[Dagardo]

Steamrollers... right. Lets just say anyone who damns Amber in any way or form, joke or not, will have this happen to them. Also, Aleolus you get a second chance cuz I just came up with that.

[Aleolus]

Dude, where is that from?  >.>

[Dagardo]

I don't know i was just kinda skimming through a topic and found it, name had something to do with laughing is all i recall. I don't have a great attention span so i mostly forgot. Don't know if its from a movie or anything either. If you find the topic ask around there if it's not dead is the best I can say. No wait it aint dead, look here for the topic.

[Aleolus]

I ask, cause he looks like one of the cops from Reno 911 >.>

[Dagardo]

Huh, ya don't say. I wouldn't know I don't watch Reno 911. I don't even know what t.v. station to look on.

[techmaster-glitch]

If he was skimming through a topic and found this as a new avatar, he found it in the old Funny Pictures thread.

[Aleolus]

Huh, ya don't say. I wouldn't know I don't watch Reno 911. I don't even know what t.v. station to look on.

Apparently it's from a reality show trying to make normal people into filmmakers or something >.>

[DarkAudit]

Huh, ya don't say. I wouldn't know I don't watch Reno 911. I don't even know what t.v. station to look on.

Apparently it's from a reality show trying to make normal people into filmmakers or something >.>

Nope.

It's from a Swedish film called Kopps.

Here's the YouTube clip.