I got this crazy idea

[Alkarii]

I've been doing some thinking lately, and somehow, I got this really crazy idea.  I've been thinking about how much I hate being around my family and staying here, doing nothing really useful.  I've decided that it'd be a good idea to get in shape, and then join the military.  No particular reason, but I'll get to go somewhere other than this place (central Arkansas), and do something constructive.  Plus, I'd at least be able to keep healthy, like no more cigars, probably no more alcohol, and more excercise and proper eating.

Now, Crazy Idea, Pt. 2:  While I'm at it... Why not just be an Army Ranger?  I know, some of you are thinking "Why don't you be a marine?"  Well, all the marines have that I'd be interested in is being a scout sniper.  Navy's got the Seals, but I'm not big on the Navy.  Air Force is out, because the only thing I like that they have is being a fighter pilot, and my vision isn't perfect.  Anyway, my dad was in the Army (infantry), and my brother was a tanker until he got a medical discharge before he even finished his training as a tanker.

Anyway, not sure I'll actually follow through with it (hell, I haven't even told my parents... they might freak out or just say that I won't stick with it), but you know... just seemed like a cool idea.

[Dagardo]

I say go for it,and if you do watch your ass, you'd miss you if you got dead.

[Reese Tora]

Dang, we had a great discussion about this on another forum, and that forum has been down all week, so I can't look at it for arguments...

Anyway, if you really sure you want to join the army, and you know what your'e getting yourself into, and (most importantly, IMO )you are joining because you both support the ideal of defending our country and are OK with the fact that you may end up doing things that you might not believe are in line with that ideal, then go for it.

Just remember that any of the armed forces are all about discipline, you don't talk back, there's a strict hierarchy and rules that don't always make sense (though they are usually there for a reason).
(See, I'd get in trouble for insubordination if I were ever to join, but that's just my personality)

The actually being in the army aside, the benefits that you'll have when you are discharged are nice; it looks good on a resume, there's usually funds for college, and, of course, the training may also serve you if you go into the right fields...

The best argument to take from the thread that I'd like to reference is that you want to have a plan, what you want to do, so you can make the most of being in the military; if you just join up without a plan and expecting everything to resolve itself, you may end up with a bad experience and not much to show for it.

If the other forum comes back up, I'll find the thread and get the details to copy over to here (or just PM you a link to it)

Just don't trust everything the reqruiters tell you, they can't lie (well... they get in trouble if they're found out), but they can certainly mislead you as to your prospects for where you'll be stationed or what training you can get if you aren't wary.

[Cvstos]

Be careful what you get into. The "benefits" got a lot better since the recent GI Bill created by Senator Webb (D-Virginia) passed with a veto-proof margin. But it's still no minor decision or something to take likely. An awful lot of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans comes back with either physical or mental problems... and a lot of them are sent back INTO those hot zones. A good friend of mine came back paralyzed from the waist down, shot by a sniper in the spine.

And if you get into the Rangers, you get a big fat dose of combat all the time. That's kind of their thing - exchanging bullets.

Now, if you have the will and the physical ability to join and serve, good on ya. I'll support you. But do not, under any circumstances, take that decision lightly.  It's a major, major decision.

Also, as in shape as you can get to prepare for military service... from what I've heard, even the relatively "light" training routine of the Air Force will STILL kick your butt.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

FWIW, getting into shape is never a bad thing.

All later decisions need careful thought, but it seems to me as if you're saying "let's get into shape, and then consider the next step" - which is perfectly acceptable.

Note that getting into shape is an ongoing process - it never stops, and if you cease, you promptly start losing that shape...

[Damaris]

I second the mental and physical problems issue.  I know several people who spent time in the military (both in and out of combat zones) relatively recently, and all of them are struggling with different issues.  Their biggest comment is that the military prepares you for killing and following orders, but doesn't take you out of that mentality before you come home.

[Sofox]

I've got various opinions on the military, so I'll keep it short and digestible.
Firstly, make sure you know what you're getting yourself into politically. There is a viewpoint out there that current military action in Iraq is likely to cause more violence and hatred towards America rather then make your country safer. Look things up and come to your own decision.

Also, remember that you will be killing people out there. You will be taking the lives of many different people. These will be human beings who have memories and families and friends and a history that led right up to the confrontation they have with you. This is what the army is about, this is what every single military unit in existence is trained to do. Do not take this lightly.

[Brunhidden]

ive considered this myself, and now that my second offspring is born and my brother in laws wedding is going to be out of the way next week i may get to become serious about it myself

however i agree with Damaris, most of the military trains to you be a machine, so choose carefully. me, im going with the navy, instead of handing you a gun and telling you to stand there till your shot at you are given a JOB which you are trained for and it is in the militarys best intrest you not get hurt because training you was expensive but thats chump change compared to the hojillion dollar boat you were standing on. recruitment officer said i may be a good missile tech, sounds like a sweet job to me.

plus, the best part is they pay for your education, i wants me some of that. when i get OUT of the military i want the ability to have a job thats decent, and i guess you do too. as stated before this is one of the benefits that has gotten beefed up, and from what i understand they will not only give you free education while in the service, once you leave you also get unlimited free education if you bother going back. someday i may get a doctorate in something fun like mythology just for shits and giggles.



heres hoping you find a spot in the armed forces thats right for you and has a minimum of bullets to the groin and PTS afterwards

[Alkarii]

Well, at least I got a much more mature reaction here.  I've received some less pleasant reactions, though it may help my situation there if I mention the fact that while I personally do not support this war or even the politicians running this country, I'm sick of everyone just TALKING.  The only people who seem to be actually doing anything to end this damn thing are the ones those yellow ribbons are for, and maybe a couple of the politicians.

However, the good news is that this won't happen overnight, and my brother has agreed to help me with it.  He even agreed to do the same thing as I am, and make an attempt to get back in and try to be a ranger this time.  He said the main reason he wasn't able to make it the first time was because he wasn't physically fit when he went to basic last time.

We've decided that, should I fully convince myself that I should do this, we'll find out just about everything we need to know about what kind of training they do in basic, and then get as much gear as we can from the military surplus store.  What we'd do is get ourselves used to moving around with all that equipment, and able to do the physical stuff  (the hardest stuff is running a mile and doing push-ups), so that when we do go in, it won't be as bad as it could be.

The only negative reactions I've gotten on this are pretty much "it's gonna be hard," and "you're gonna be getting shot at."  There was one guy who said it was a bad idea because his friend broke his hip in basic, and now that he's better he's going back to the middle east, and hasn't heard much from his friend.  My arguments to that are simple:  I already know what I'm risking.  I don't have a wife and kids, I don't have a girlfriend  (yeah, I'll admit it, I'm a virgin, so kiss my ass).  The only friends I have are my brother's friends (who I'm not really close with anyway), one guy from high school that I managed to make contact with, and a friend I've known for 13 years.  The only slightly negative things I've heard are that I need to be careful with the recruiters and that training is hell.  However, the way I see it, the single most important thing I need to have is a strong will.  With that, I can stick with the whole getting in shape thing (eating right and exercising), and if I have a strong body by the time I enter basic, then that Ranger patch will be within my reach.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Well, at least I got a much more mature reaction here.

We try. Sometimes we even succeed. ;-]

I've received some less pleasant reactions, though it may help my situation there if I mention the fact that while I personally do not support this war or even the politicians running this country, I'm sick of everyone just TALKING.  The only people who seem to be actually doing anything to end this damn thing are the ones those yellow ribbons are for, and maybe a couple of the politicians.

This, I support fully. Being willing to put your money where your mouth is, so to speak, is something I stand well and truly behind; despite, as you say, disagreeing with what's being done.

Although, there is some of this whole situation that _requires_ "just talking"...

[Alkarii]

Well, by the "just talking" thing, I didn't mean diplomacy (which we actually need more of), but the whole "Oh, bring the troops home, we don't need this war" or "F**K THE MIDDLE EAST!"  A lot of people don't understand that it's not that simple.  With our soldiers over there, the terrorists will stay there to fight them instead of coming over here.  However, the many Islamic terrorist factions want to keep the war going so as to completely cripple the American economy.  They're trying to get us to exhaust our resources.

To be honest with you, until the attacks back in 2001, I didn't realise they hated us.  That's what makes the whole thing so unfair on both sides: they're attacking people who not only did nothing to them to begin with, but many people in my generation would prefer to just leave them alone if it weren't for the fact that they're under attack for something they have nothing to do with.

[Azlan]

The prevailing theory, as I've been told, is that the terrorist/insurgent factions, are maintaining sufficient pressure with the plan to hold out long enough for sufficient popular opinion to force a withdraw.  It is a historical fact that popular opinion has caused the US to pull out of unpopular wars.

As with your service of choice, the best advice I can give, from former military, is to be sure to have everything in writing.  If the recruiter makes promises, those are out the door unless its in writing on your enlistment contract or commission agreement.

[Sofox]

The prevailing theory, as I've been told, is that the terrorist/insurgent factions, are maintaining sufficient pressure with the plan to hold out long enough for sufficient popular opinion to force a withdraw.  It is a historical fact that popular opinion has caused the US to pull out of unpopular wars.

I was under the impression that it was more of a "our country's been invaded by a foreign force, fight back!"

[rabid_fox]

Getting into shape is bloody impossible.

Getting into the army is a lot easier.

Be as water.

[Netrogo]

Be as water.

Drunk?

I know that's about what it'd take to get me to join the military. I've had several friends in various forms of 'service' and few of them describe it as good times or even decent times. I however have the utmost of respect for those willing to sacrifice their time and such to defend our continent, or offend others as the case may be. Good on ya.

[superluser]

Be as water.

Drunk?

They got a building down New York City, it's called Whitehall Street, where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected, neglected and selected.  I went down to get my physical examination one day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night before, so I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning.

(I'll leave the HHGTTG reference to someone else)

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

superluser:

Jumpin' up and down shoutin' "Keell! Keell!" and the shrink started jumpin' up and down with me shoutin' "Keell! Keell!" and we was both jumpin' up and down shoutin' "Keell! Keell!" and the sergeant came down, pinned a medal on me and said "You're our boy!"

... Didn't feel too good about it, but went on my way gettin' injected, infected, inspected, detected, neglected and selected...

*cough*

[DarkAudit]

I was there for two hours, three hours, four hours, I was there for a long time going through all kinds of mean nasty ugly things and I was just having a tough time there, and they was inspecting, injecting every single part of me, and they was leaving no part untouched.

[Tapewolf]

When we make it to the chorus, I think we can pronounce this thread officially gone off-topic...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

But that's not what I came here to talk about.

[superluser]

When we make it to the chorus, I think we can pronounce this thread officially gone off-topic...

Hey, I was responding to the suggestion about being drunk during your military physical examination, so I was trying to stay on-topic.

[Tapewolf]

Hey, I was responding to the suggestion about being drunk during your military physical examination, so I was trying to stay on-topic.

Absolutely.  It's just that people picked it up and ran with it, that irked me a little (since the guy is liable to come back and find a song instead of a useful discussion of his idea)

[Sunblink]

Allow me to bump things back on-topic, then.

To Alkarii, my cousin is in the army. He drives a tank in Iraq. To be honest, I'm extremely worried about him - I'm really scared that he's going to end up badly affected, even if he makes it through physically unscathed. One horror story he shared with my mom and his wife was that his particular group (platoon?) practically had to beg for food, and while he narrated the situation in an almost jovial manner and I probably misinterpreted something by taking it out of context (I had walked into the kitchen as he was talking with my family), it was enough to really make me concerned about him.

While the military would be a great way to keep your body in peak physical condition and increase mental discipline, as people have stated, there are still a great deal of risks. You seem to be taking everything into consideration, but I'm going to nth the motion of your life being at risk or the possibility of trauma if you're sent out to war. This really depends on whether or not you are recruited any war, though.

Otherwise, you've listed just about all the things you'll need to take into consideration in an earlier post.

My opinion? Depends on whether or not you believe you're prepared. I agree with llearch in that I like your motives. You also mentioned that you know what you're risking and seem to be taking this fairly seriously. I also have an immense amount of respect for people in the military.

[Alkarii]

Well, I don't know how or why, but hearing all that from you guys got me over any misgivings I really had about going.  Made me feel a bit better, you know?

At the moment, I'm worried about two other things, which are not qualifying to join and telling my parents what the hell I'm up to.  I seriously think they'll get really pissed at me, and since my brother's wanting to go back in, they'll probably blame me if he gets hurt, since it was MY idea to go in.  He just decided to go along with it.

Not to sound emo and all, but my parents always gave me the feeling that I wasn't ever good enough or that I couldn't measure up to my brother and sister, despite the fact that I've not gone and screwed around and messed everything up for myself like they did.  Worse, my brother has a kid, and I really don't like the idea of a kid growing up without a parent.

As for the whole being in combat thing, well... no kids, no significant other, no longer interested in looking anymore, so the only people who'd really be affected that much if I die are my parents and my brother.  I'll bet my sister wouldn't give a shit, since she's like that.  Also, with the life insurance thing in the military, my parents would get a decent amount of money, enough that they wouldn't have to worry about much.  So, it'd be a lot better putting me in combat than letting someone with a wife and some kids back home.  At least, it'd weigh better on my conscience.

But anyway, thanks for not being like a lot of people I know, who were all like "You're just being a pawn for the government!" and all that other crap.  You guys really have no idea how good that makes me feel.

[Sofox]

Honestly speaking, I'm still very nervous about this whole situation.

I have grave concerns about whether this war is helping anybody. Politics aside, I just do not see any strategy of how America's military presence there will eventually lead to a better situation and instead I see it as more likely to generated hatred towards America in the Middle East then resolve anything.

For me, however, its more simple then that. The truth is, I place huge value on human life. I find life extremely sacred and the ending of it to be mortal sin. For someone to intentionally put themselves in a situation where they know they will be forced to take human lives... to me just screams against my very nature.

[Valynth]

I have grave concerns about whether this war is helping anybody. Politics aside, I just do not see any strategy of how America's military presence there will eventually lead to a better situation and instead I see it as more likely to generated hatred towards America in the Middle East then resolve anything.

Bah, we piss off the middle east simply by not being Muslim and denying their requests to completely enslave us to their doctrine and killing anyone who doesn't willingly enslave themselves.

For me, however, its more simple then that. The truth is, I place huge value on human life. I find life extremely sacred and the ending of it to be mortal sin. For someone to intentionally put themselves in a situation where they know they will be forced to take human lives... to me just screams against my very nature.

The military is all about ending a bloody conflict with as few casualties on either side as possible.  So in a sense, they're actually supporting your view on the matter of human life, but sometimes they have to kill to SAVE that human life and/or more.

Unfortunately that might have come back to bite us since we resolved the Iraq war so quickly that the Iraqis don't realise they've been beaten.  That sense is also probably because we haven't done what other conquerers have done, which is kill off large portions of the population to show our power.  And the Islamic world is based on those types of "shows of power" with almost every leader they've had and they simply don't know how to handle a leader that DOESN't do that.

[superluser]

At the moment, I'm worried about two other things, which are not qualifying to join and telling my parents what the hell I'm up to.

Well, if you know what you're getting yourself in for, I wouldn't worry about your folks.

There are few things more honorable than joining the military to serve your country.  It's been said by others more eloquent than me, and I'm sure that you can find hundreds of arguments that people have given to their parents for why they are joining the military.

To be honest, I am a little concerned about your rationale for joining the military.  If you want to see the world, get in shape, keep healthy and stop feeding vices, join the Peace Corps.  You won't get shot at.  I'm not exactly sure if the goal of the military is to defeat the terrorists, either.  It's more to provide for the common defense.  So if your goal is to defeat the enemy, you might be disappointed.

I'm certainly not telling you not to join up, but just make sure that you know what your alternatives are before choosing a path.

[bill]

postin

There are many reasons that the people in the M-E are pissed off at the west, but pinning it all on religon isn't the answer. You've got somewhat justified anger at the US for policy decisions in the past (especially regarding Israel), you've got despots pointing every one of their country's faults as the West's fault, combined with a low standard of living and overall unhappiness that breeds this attitude (Happy people with good S.O.Ls generally do not become terrorists, rich kids don't join street gangs, etc).  

Pinning it all on religon is tempting, but unrepresentative of a much more complicated situation. It's unfortunate that religon is the fault of so many problems in the Middle East (Iran was becoming "western" before the Ayatollah Khomeini's intervention), but theocratic nations have been anti-progressive no matter what religon. As for this,

Unfortunately that might have come back to bite us since we resolved the Iraq war so quickly that the Iraqis don't realize they've been beaten.  That sense is also probably because we haven't done what other conquerers have done, which is kill off large portions of the population to show our power.  And the Islamic world is based on those types of "shows of power" with almost every leader they've had and they simply don't know how to handle a leader that DOESN't do that.

This is dehumanizing a huge group of people that don't deserve it as a whole. Please don't do this, it's close to outright racism, which I'm sure isn't your position at all.

[techmaster-glitch]

The only thing I have to add here is that I've got a very good friend who's going off to start training in a few days. I am going to miss him a whole lot, things in my place are not going to be the same without him. For those interested, he's going into the Air Force ("less chance of being shot at, and you get cool machines"), and already has his position worked out; E.O.D., Explosive Ordnance Disposal. For the benefit of anyone who might not know, that basically means he's going to blow up bombs with his own bombs

But I'm running off a little. As I was saying, I'm probably going to see him only one or two more times before he leaves on the 23rd, and then...It's not that I'm upset that he's leaving, it's just that I'm going to miss him.

Since you've said that there's really no one you're leaving behind, I'm not sure how this pertains to you, but still...thought I might share it.

[Brunhidden]

For the benefit of anyone who might not know, that basically means he's going to blow up bombs with his own bombs

that sounds like a rewarding hobby and should be made into a spectator sport and/or Olympic event