stem cells, something actually good happened

[gh0st]

ok so scientists have found a way to make a compromise on the stem cell problem, they successfully taken stem cells from human embryos without killing the unborn baby. so basically it allows some people to talk and shuts the rest up...

and by the way it's great to be back

source:
http://popsci.typepad.com/popsci/2008/01/another-major-s.html

[techmaster-glitch]

Read about this already. Stem cells from skin cells. Brilliant, but that's what I would have been going for from the beginning.

[gh0st]

but isn't this still great people can actually be healed now by the marvels of science, and it gives the possibility to finally cure cancer even though there already is one

[techmaster-glitch]

Of course it's great. I didn't say it wasn't. I just wasn't particularly enthusiastic because, like I said, I've already read about this.

[Valynth]

but isn't this still great people can actually be healed now by the marvels of science, and it gives the possibility to finally cure cancer even though there already is one

But how many people WANT to be shot?

[thegayhare]

first off all stem cells are not created equaly

you can already get stem cells from adult fat cells, and then there is cord blood stem cells which has had some interesting medical progress.  but just because they are stem cells doesn't mean they are the same. 

the types of stem cells  that can be gathered from these sources are limited in there uses.  They simply aren't as versatile as embryonic.

[xHaZxMaTx]

but isn't this still great people can actually be healed now by the marvels of science, and it gives the possibility to finally cure cancer...

Yes, that's exactly what the already over-populated world needs.

[Valynth]

but isn't this still great people can actually be healed now by the marvels of science, and it gives the possibility to finally cure cancer...

Yes, that's exactly what the already over-populated world needs.

If China can afford to send us contaminated wheat that kills our pets, the world isn't overpopulated.

[techmaster-glitch]

but isn't this still great people can actually be healed now by the marvels of science, and it gives the possibility to finally cure cancer...

Yes, that's exactly what the already over-populated world needs.

If China can afford to send us contaminated wheat that kills our pets, the world isn't overpopulated.

Are you saying that China has a surplus of wheat, and all of their citizens are getting some before they sell the rest to us?

[Eibborn]

I interpret it that China is exporting wheat, which implies that they have more than enough.

[techmaster-glitch]

Not with modern communism, as far as I know.

[Brunhidden]

china getting the wheat they export is like the Koreans actually eating what kim imports.


the thing that still bugs me is that theres a great many embryos created by fertility clinics, and once the couple gets pregnant they just throw out the embryos.... is that not a complete waste? couldn't those embryos be used to try and save someones life? theres hundreds of ways that life is wasted, if theres a single one that we can do something about it should actually have something done about it...

Evil overlord rulebook # 158- I will exchange the labels on my files of top secret plans and my files of family recipes. Imagine the hero's surprise when he spends hours decoding the stolen plans for Grandma's Potato Salad

[Valynth]

but isn't this still great people can actually be healed now by the marvels of science, and it gives the possibility to finally cure cancer...

Yes, that's exactly what the already over-populated world needs.

If China can afford to send us contaminated wheat that kills our pets, the world isn't overpopulated.

Are you saying that China has a surplus of wheat, and all of their citizens are getting some before they sell the rest to us?

No, but they are being fed the same substance in form of noodles.  Of course the substance that is used to deceive the protein tests that determine the quality of the grain and thus it's price is benign in the human digestive tract, but in the systems of cats and dogs it gets turned into ammonia, hence the deaths and recalls of certain pet foods.

This is also why Chinese citzens show signs of protein deficiency despite buying the best quality grains.

[Omega]

This is old news to me, as well.

The problem of this is the price and safety. How can you tell that these stem cells don't become cancer cells themselves after a little while? It is a stepping stone into better future, of course, but we need not to start smoking and learn to use chainsaw with your teeth just yet. So far, though, it does look promising.

[techmaster-glitch]

The problem of this is the price and safety. How can you tell that these stem cells don't become cancer cells themselves after a little while?

That is the current problem they are struggling with. This stem from skin thing is far from perfect, but it has opened up an entirely new field of possibilities.
Now we just need to refine it.

[rabid_fox]

They're great on toast.

[gh0st]

yeah but these stem cells are not coming from fat cells, they are coming from embryos real human unborn children. and i'm  really happy because they found a way to get stem cells from unborne children without killing them! i mean sure it may cost a lot but it is progress!

[Alondro]

These cells will work better than embryonic stem cells because they can be made from a patient's own cells, hence there should be zero possibility of rejection.

In higher mammals, there has been rejection noted in embryonic stem cell experiments after a time, meaning in most cases the immune system does eventually find out the cells are foreign.

In rats and mice, there was no rejection because their immune systems are less highly self-specific.  They only live a few years anyway, so they don't really need to worry about wasting time developing a complicated immune system to look for any variation in their own cells.  In a world where virtually everything eats them, cancer is the least of a mouse's worries. 

You can implant tumor cells in rats and mice that would be rejected and destroyed immediately in primates, for instance. 

The only real success I've ever heard of with embryonic/cord blood stem cells was in recent years for artificial skin on burn victims, and even then the person's own cells eventually take over. 

And there's no guarantee the embryonic cells won't become cancerous.  Don't forget that in an embryo they develop along with the embryo's immune system and with very specialized paracrine and endocrine growth signalling, thus some pre-cancerous cells that inevitably form in the rapidly dividing and growing embryonic tissues are either told to self-destruct or are targeted for destruction when they deviate from their normal growth. 

Those signalling pathways aren't present in embryonic tissue grown in a lab.  There's no immune system to seek out abnormal cells.  So you can't know if some of the cells you implant have in fact already undergone the mutations turning them into cancer cells.

Cancer is going to be a risk no matter which cells you use, really.  Any time you culture cells outside the body, the lack of immune responses means some cells can become cancerous and get beyond the point where the immune system can recognize them, ie, they lose expression of their cell surface molecules from rampant mutation and have free reign once inside the body. 

Mutations are happening constantly in the body.  DNA repair mechanisms, self-destruct programs, and immune cells are constantly busy getting rid of abnormal cells before they can go wild.  When you really know how many things that can go wrong in a cell, it's almost astounding that anything ever goes right! 

[superluser]

you can already get stem cells from adult fat cells, and then there is cord blood stem cells which has had some interesting medical progress.  but just because they are stem cells doesn't mean they are the same.

Except that these cells *are* capable of doing what embryonic stem cells do.

Oh, wait.  This is the PGD thing?  I thought we were talking about the skin cell thing.  Both are capable of doing what ES cells can do.