[Design] Robbie's Topic (2/20/08 - New Website Design)

[RobbieThe1st]

Updates:
[Story] Robbie's Topic (1/15/08 - Part 1 of my char's background.)
[Story] Robbie's Topic (1/24/08 - Chapter 2 of my char's background.)
[Design] Robbie's Topic (2/20/08 - New Website Design)


Alright, I think its finally time I post all the various bits of junk I have fiddled with art wise, as well as anything else worth looking at.
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/ <- image folder, when I upload junk for stuff

First off - Yappity related stuff(Silverfoxr rocks!):
Original version

Redone, version 1 - ~150X150
Above image, as transparent PNG
Redone, version 2(colored) - ~150X150
Redone, version 3 - ~150X150
Above image, as semi-transparent PNG
Latest experiment as of 9-24-07(small)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Redone version one, transparent PNG
Redone, version 3(thick lines)
Redone, version 3(thin lines)
Redone, version 4(I think)(medium lines)
Latest experiment as of 9-24-07


Other stuff:
<_< I was bored....

Yes, I *do* have a copy of the non-existent, (holy,) book of DMFA:
Image 1(large)  Image 1(small)
Image 2(large)  Image 2(small)
Image 3(large)


A couple Runescape-related bits:
Spinning Runescape Globe.
Sig-background with the aforementioned globe.
I did these a while ago, and I forgot to remove the black area in the spinning one, but meh.

A couple DMFA affiliate-buttons:
Ebil Dan
Pants are stupid!(I never finished this to my satisfaction)

Random things:
A couple Nip & Tuck comics pasted together

So, upon reading This, I find that Amber's husband doesn't like Firefox(well, Mozilla, whatever) because its slow, and doesn't display things properly. And what am I doing? Reading his website with it.
Irony.
(Yes, its old, perhaps his opinions have changed in the mean-time. I don't know.)

-RobbieThe1st

[RobbieThe1st]

Alright, time to post my first and second drawings(well, sort of). You see, I really haven't learned how to draw, I don't have a tablet, and any drawings I do on paper end up worse than a 5-year olds(well, probably), and so I am drawing with a mouse, using the vector-paths in Gimp. So, a few months back, being reasonably good at GIMP, I started to work on an avatar for the TwoKinds Forum(this was before I started reading DMFA I think). Now, back then, I didn't have much in the way of knowledge about proportions, and my first drawing, which I will post here, was mainly traced. Still, It was good to have something that I had at least a hand in creating.


It did need a lot more work, however I got distracted, and, well, next thing you know, its months later.

Now, over the past couple months, I formulated an idea for an character for here. At first, I thought it was hopeless, me attempting to draw, and I simply asked for a Yappity(Thanks Silver!). While messing around with tracing that and making it larger and cleaner, I learned a bit more about tracing and such, and as of a week ago, I decided to make a proper character.
I decided on a male 'Cubi, however, I decided to make it a Human-incubus. I decided on feathered wings, but I haven't really decided on a color scheme, but in this stage of development, it doesn't really matter.

As you will see, This 'drawing' is a mixture of my old work, loose-tracings, stuff I eyeballed,  and just about anything I could think of to attempt to make it better. Also, as you see from the various stages, I have gotten conflicting feedback from the various people who have attempted to help me.

http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/first_redraw_test.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing2.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing3.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing4.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing5.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing6.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing7.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing8.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing9.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing10.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing10-.png <
^same as above image but with model visible(in this case, my Runescape char)^
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing11.png
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/newavviedrawing12.png


Now, as you can see its not all that good, however, with the help of you all, I should be able to turn it into something manageable, and reasonable looking.

I am opting for a style like the early TwoKinds work, about like Trace here: http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/twokinds/20031104.jpg
Why? It looks reasonable, and looks to be easier to do than something like Amber's work.


(Yes, I am quite involved with TwoKinds, I have permission from Tom(the author) for that archive-mirror, I met the person who is hosting that site in the TwoKinds chat-room, which is why I quote TK work some times.[Though, in the TwoKinds chat, I quote DMFA quite a bit ]).
All works are copyright their respective authors and such, ok?


Questions, comments, and any help is greatly appreciated.


-RobbieThe1st

[techmaster-glitch]

That little kid looks like he belongs in a flash game

[RobbieThe1st]

That little kid looks like he belongs in a flash game

Thanks for replying, techmaster-glitch!

Well, thats quite true.
After all, both Flash and GIMP's Paths both use vectors(gimp can both export paths to SVG and vice-versa).


Anyway, does anyone have any ideas what version was best, and where I started going off track, or anything? Heck, even ten posts saying "horrible" is better than no feedback.


-RobbieThe1st

[RobbieThe1st]

First off, I apologize for doing this without permission, if you are not happy with me doing this, Amber.

Well, As of a few days ago, I decided to use my tracing 'talents' to redo DMFA #1, as I have not seen anyone else even attempt to, so far as I can tell.
I did this in Gimp, via vectors.

Normal size version(1.25% of original, it looks better to me at this size):
The image is wider than 500px, I will replace this bit of text with the first panel later.
Full-size version(500%) with approximately the same size lines as the 1.25% version: Full Size Version
Vector(Exported as SVG): http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/dmfa-final-v1.svg 

As you can see, it isn't perfect, and, especially with the eyes, there are major problems. I blame some of them on the low quality of the source. 

Anyway, questions/comments welcome!

[Tapewolf]

I suspect that if Amber is upset at all it will be because you copied her original style 

[Zedd]

I got one coment for you Robbie..Stop

[Tapewolf]

I got one coment for you Robbie..Stop

That's kind of mean.  I'd be seriously interested in seeing vectorised versions of some of the more recent strips, e.g. 116 onwards.

[RobbieThe1st]

I got one comment for you Robbie..Stop

Well, seeing as you haven't told me whats wrong with it, and haven't given me any reasoning behind your comment, I shall ignore it.
If you don't like it, go make a better vector version of it yourself.

I got one coment for you Robbie..Stop

That's kind of mean.  I'd be seriously interested in seeing vectorised versions of some of the more recent strips, e.g. 116 onwards.

Well, I might, depending on how much time I have on my hands. It would be much easier if I could at least get a rough-sketch out via a script.
Thanks for your comment.

-RobbieThe1st

[Turnsky]

I got one coment for you Robbie..Stop

NO CAMEO FOR YOU!

[Tapewolf]

Hmm.  I can't view your SVGs in Firefox or Konqueror.  Any ideas?  Other SVG files do work.

[RobbieThe1st]

Hmm.  I can't view your SVGs in Firefox or Konqueror.  Any ideas?  Other SVG files do work.

Yea -  I dont think my host supports SVGs, and so the headers are the ones for plain text. Just download it and load it in Firefox, that seems to work.


-RobbieThe1st

[Tapewolf]

Yea -  I dont think my host supports SVGs, and so the headers are the ones for plain text. Just download it and load it in Firefox, that seems to work.

Yeah.  Not bad - I'll have to pull it into something that can view them with scaling.  I never knew GIMP could do SVG editing.

[RobbieThe1st]

Yea -  I dont think my host supports SVGs, and so the headers are the ones for plain text. Just download it and load it in Firefox, that seems to work.

Yeah.  Not bad - I'll have to pull it into something that can view them with scaling.  I never knew GIMP could do SVG editing.

Its the lines tool, and you can import/export SVGs from there. Also, resizing the full image resizes the native-size(Whatever size it displays in Firefox). I just learned that last bit a week or two ago.

Also, I isnt there some way to add new supported file-types? I think there is.. However, I should have gotten off the computer over an hour ago, and my main computer died.


-RobbieThe1st

[GabrielsThoughts]

I want to see the Merlitz meets a human arc with better/ vectorized  arts, with color. I was thinking of doing it myself, but it would probably be a year before I'd get around to attempting it.   

[Zedd]

Im not trying to be mean but try with the current stuffs...Im hopping somehow to see ways we can really have ways helping her without her head explodin 

Im sorry I sounded soo assy at first...

[RobbieThe1st]

Well, a couple days ago I was idly thinking about panel borders and such, and I remembered two things, one was that a while back, someone referred to a comic like '432.1', and also that its hard to quote one panel.

Anyway, I got to work, and THIS is the result:
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/scripts/quote.php?comic=398.3
The code:

Code Select Expand

http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/scripts/quote.php?comic=*comic number*.*panel*
Panel numbers start at 1, and if you get above the number of panels or put in panel 0, it will default to panel 1.
If you choose a comic not in its archive, it returns a blank page.

As you will see when playing with it, only rectangular panels in horizontal rows work properly, as you can see here: http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/scripts/quote.php?comic=089.2

How it works is reasonably simple: it opens the comic image, and scans down vertically line by line: any line which has less than a set amount(varies between 2 and 20 depending on other conditions) of pixels below the threshold for red/green/blue(200) gets added to the current block of white. once its finished, it takes the sections between the ending of each block and the beginning of the next block, and runs it through step two where it does the same thing, only horizontal this time, then organizes it into a list of panels.

As it is, its operating totally dynamically, so I would appreciate it if you test it, but not hot-link it in posts(a text link to it is ok though) for now.

It is not nearly perfect, but I consider it a good start, and, right now I have no way to improve it really.

I figure, once its been tested, I will then work on it, and set it to do calculate each comic once, and store the list of panel sections as a text file, which a simple tool can then view or can be used for whatever.

Any questions or comments?

Also, for anyone who wants it, the code is Here.

I hope someone can use this!

-RobbieThe1st

[Tapewolf]

Nice.  I'm impressed with the input validation... I tried a whole host of evil things to see if I could make it die, so far, so good.  Even handles the single-frame strips, and ones that are split vertically instead of horizontally.

It does not like strip 500, though.

[RobbieThe1st]

Nice.  I'm impressed with the input validation... I tried a whole host of evil things to see if I could make it die, so far, so good.  Even handles the single-frame strips, and ones that are split vertically instead of horizontally.

It does not like strip 500, though.

That I know! 

If you have any ideas on how to make it work, I would love to hear them!

Feel free to look at the code and do whatever you want.

Also, I didn't do much input validation, as you will see if you look, so I am impressed as well!

Now, I am off for now, probably won't be on tomorrow, so I will respond when next I have internet.

-RobbieThe1st

[Sid]

Interesting concept!

About the #500 bug:
500.2, 500.5, 500.8, and 500.10 produce the panels, the rest appears to be the left/right borders of the panels. Not sure what's causing it in this case since I didn't go through the code (yet), but it might help others to pinpoint the problem...

Edit:
A "trivial" workaround would be to only add images to the resulting list/array of panels that are wider than 5 or so pixels. It's not the most elegant solution, and since I didn't look at the code, I dunno where you'd build it in, but it should do the trick since Amber most likely won't ever make a comic with such thin panels.

Even more edit:
This (the task of automatically detecting the panels) is a fascinating problem, actually...

And some more edit:
003.x simply returns the entire comic - I guess the smudging around the borders is too visible there and throws off the scanner... NO clue how to fix it right now, though - this is pretty much the worst case for border detection of any sort.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

but it should do the trick since Amber most likely won't ever make a comic with such thin panels.

... until Amber sees this, in which case she'll post a comic with -very- thin panels, just to be ornery. ;-]


See why we like her? ;-]

[Fuyudenki]

that's really cool.  My only issue is that it seems to be rather slow.

Are there any ways you could speed it up?(algorithm enhancement, maybe?)

[RobbieThe1st]

Interesting concept!

About the #500 bug:
500.2, 500.5, 500.8, and 500.10 produce the panels, the rest appears to be the left/right borders of the panels. Not sure what's causing it in this case since I didn't go through the code (yet), but it might help others to pinpoint the problem...

Edit:
A "trivial" workaround would be to only add images to the resulting list/array of panels that are wider than 5 or so pixels. It's not the most elegant solution, and since I didn't look at the code, I dunno where you'd build it in, but it should do the trick since Amber most likely won't ever make a comic with such thin panels.

Even more edit:
This (the task of automatically detecting the panels) is a fascinating problem, actually...

And some more edit:
003.x simply returns the entire comic - I guess the smudging around the borders is too visible there and throws off the scanner... NO clue how to fix it right now, though - this is pretty much the worst case for border detection of any sort.

Well, after messing with it, I have managed to get 500 and some of the uncolored ones working fine. I have also added a 'debug' feature:
http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/scripts/quote.php?comic=500.0&debug
just add "&debug" to the end, and it will show the whole comic with a 2px red border over each section it decides is a panel.

that's really cool.  My only issue is that it seems to be rather slow.

Are there any ways you could speed it up?(algorithm enhancement, maybe?)

Well, I figure to make it slow but that it works very well, and then have it only run once per comic, and then the panels it has created can be easily accessed by a different tool.

-RobbieThe1st

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

You could always have it cache the output, and check if the cache exists first.

That would resolve the speed for the second and further panels for each strip, and also any strip that you had already viewed. Given the number of folk here, I expect you'd get most of the archives fairly rapidly.

Heck, if you wanted it to fill the cache, a quick wget script would hammer the everliving hell out of your webserver, but fill the cache with no further interaction needed....

[RobbieThe1st]

You could always have it cache the output, and check if the cache exists first.

That would resolve the speed for the second and further panels for each strip, and also any strip that you had already viewed. Given the number of folk here, I expect you'd get most of the archives fairly rapidly.

Heck, if you wanted it to fill the cache, a quick wget script would hammer the everliving hell out of your webserver, but fill the cache with no further interaction needed....

Well, as it is, I am not sure quite how to use wget properly, considering I don't have shell access.
A php script with 0 time limit running a loop with cURL works fine however.

I plan to just do the cache at once, after I get this thing working perfectly.

Fortunately my host(www.ktemkin.com) has his own 7 computer cluster which this is all running on, as well as an unmetered t3 internet, so I don't think I will have much in the way of trouble.

As it is now, the starting image files are cached(although the cache is somewhat old), and everything else is dynamic - thats why I don't want people hotlinking it yet.
Plus, doing it my way will allow me to manually manipulate the cache and the few annoying comics can be done reasonably easily.


-RobbieThe1st

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

on a shell, 'wget "http://host/script?param={0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8}{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}.1"'

Other options optional. That'll make a request, assuming you're using bash, for every number from 000.1 to 899.1 - enough to cause it, coded correctly, to cache every panel of every comic.

If you write the cache code correctly, you can fiddle with the cache directly afterwards.

Neat, huh? All you need to do is throw a delay in there so it doesn't hammer your server with 900 requests all at the same time. ;-]

[RobbieThe1st]

on a shell, 'wget "http://host/script?param={0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8}{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}.1"'

Other options optional. That'll make a request, assuming you're using bash, for every number from 000.1 to 899.1 - enough to cause it, coded correctly, to cache every panel of every comic.

If you write the cache code correctly, you can fiddle with the cache directly afterwards.

Neat, huh? All you need to do is throw a delay in there so it doesn't hammer your server with 900 requests all at the same time. ;-]

Llearch, please read my post before responding.

Well, as it is, I am not sure quite how to use wget properly, considering I don't have shell access.

Sorry, but skimming doesn't work with my posts.

-RobbieThe1st

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... you think I posted that for -your- benefit? ;-]

Besides - you can always install cygwin, to get a bash shell and wget. It's a bit of a "sledgehammer to open a peanut" solution, but it would still resolve things.

Or you could ask someone else (hint, hint) to run it for you. However, the main reason for posting it is to demonstrate how easy it is to do these things in a shell; in hindsight, 'wget "http://host/script?param=$(seq -w 1 899).1"' would have done just as well... Writing a whole php script to do it is possible, but seems overkill...


.. and none of this would be needed to run on the server itself. Hence why "shell access" on the server in question is irrelevant.

[RobbieThe1st]

... you think I posted that for -your- benefit? ;-]

Besides - you can always install cygwin, to get a bash shell and wget. It's a bit of a "sledgehammer to open a peanut" solution, but it would still resolve things.

r you could ask someone else (hint, hint) to run it for you. However, the main reason for posting it is to demonstrate how easy it is to do these things in a shell; in hindsight, 'wget "http://host/script?param=$(seq -w 1 899).1"' would have done just as well... Writing a whole php script to do it is possible, but seems overkill...


.. and none of this would be needed to run on the server itself. Hence why "shell access" on the server in question is irrelevant.

Well... I have no clue what you mean.
My upload speed is so slow, and I have so little bandwidth to waste that it would be nearly impossible to download them all, script through them, then upload.
What is more probable is that I download them using one of my scripts(though, now, this step is moot considering I have it already downloaded), run the script through there and have it save a script-version of the output(instead of it cutting the images into pieces, it simply saves the arguments it would use), which would then be uploaded, and the actual chopping work would be done on the server.

Note that, my computer is running windows, though I have a copy of PHP/Apache/MySQL installed(and can obviously use command-line php for long scripts), however my webserver is running Linux, and I do *not* have shell access there, so what I end up doing is having my scripts do it a section at a time(as a work-around for the execution time limit), and after a  couple minutes, I am completely done.

Also, PHP is nice because I can script complicated downloads, stuff that makes DownThemAll or Wget die in a horrible manner(or isn't even possible), and, while slow, gets the job done fine.
(Try using wget to directly download every single Sluggy Freelance comic. I don't think its even possible.)

Also, I could/can simply use cURL directly via a (php created)batch file, which I did once before, which is a tad faster.


A note: These scripts I talk about, well, theres a copy of them in my scripts topic somewhere around here.

Upon reading your last post, Llearch, I think I misunderstood once more:

I just load up the page in Firefox, and have it do more than one comic at a time - I have it go through its list, and if the file is already in the done list, skip it. This means that, depending on how hard the calculations are, it can generally do over a hundred comics in one page load, and thats a -very- conservative estimate.


-RobbieThe1st

[RobbieThe1st]

Ok, so a few months ago, when I got my Creative Zen Micro, I needed a case for it. First thing I did was make a case out of an Altoids tin, as you can see in the first pic.
One day, I decided I needed a belt holder for the MP3 player, and, after not finding what I wanted online, I decided to just -make- one.

Anyway, this was made with a couple of simple looms(i.e. 4 bits of two-by-two arrange in a rectangle), a bunch of yarn(which we had around, we had gotten a huge bag for like $2 a while back), a large leather-needle, and a crochet hook.

1. http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/IMG_2910.JPG
2. http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/IMG_2913.JPG
3. http://robbiethe1st.ktserv.com/images/IMG_2916.JPG

I just washed it, which is why I am posting it now. I have washed it half a dozen times, and it seems to be holding together fine.

I do have one problem, and that is that the cover flap is too narrow, and the MP3 player can just barely slip out, especially if its not completely tight. Also that if the flap is tight, its impossible to plug in a set of earphones,

One of these days I should make another, however, what do you think for a first attempt?


-RobbieThe1st