Brotherhood of the Machine (OOC) [PG/14] - Open - New players welcome!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Yeah, but that also disables breathing...

Tongue removal?  I was going to suggest that but it seems a bit harsh 

Also ineffective. All the zealot has to do is make -enough- noise that someone comes. You can scream without a tongue - it's all from the throat.

And that may well trigger someone remotely shutting him down - after all, if it's powered, then there's likelyhood of locator signals... at least -within- the tower, if not outside as well.

[techmaster-glitch]

I feel i need to say a few thing for Jexx.

before I do though, I just want to say that if this were really me, I would most certainly not be acting the way Jexx is, but this is Jexx's character.

Several of the things that Morgan thinks about Jexx are most certainly true. A few other things, well, seem needlessly harsh.

Morgan watched Jexx posture and insult the capabilities of himself, the whole team and the Rebellion all with a few selfish words.

I don't see Jexx actually insulting anyone in with what he said...

In Morgan's eyes he saw an immature little boy, not an adult.

That, however, is quite true. For all intents and puposes, he is only two years old. I must point out though, that he never chose to be the way he is.

Jexx made his excuses, but what it really boiled down to is Jexx wanted to solve the whole problem himself and be the hero of the day.

The first part of that sentance is true (about solving the problem himself), but how can Jexx try to be the 'hero' if he doesn't even know what that is? All his 'life', the only thing he has ever done is fight the Brotherhood, and he has done it all by himself. He is, unfortunately, still subconsiously trapped in the mind-set that no one is on his side, therefore, he does everything himself. If there is an objective, he will immediately hop to it without any delay, because he thinks there is no one else to do it. Any though of 'heroics' never even enters his mind.

with one act, he deserted his post,

None of us really had a specific post, and Jexx doesn't really even recognize them anyway...

possibly endangering the lives of his two team mates

I don't see how this endangers Morgan or Dorcan...

headed off into an unknown area that could lead to his own death or capture by the Brotherhood.

*Jexx's responce* "What else is new?"
He's faced this exact situation before, and almost his entire life has been nothing but him doing things similar to this. He has absolutely nothing to lose, but everything to gain. That's why he seems to disregard his own safety; he does not fear death. Indeed, he barely knows what it is. And he can take care of himself. so long as he doesn't actually try to enter the Tower (like he once did) he should be fine.

If he fought in the tunnels, a stray shot could destroy the conduits, taking out the machinery, maybe a section of town or even the tower

I think that's slightly unrealistic. If he pumped his plasma cannons at the tunnel for about ten seconds, I would imagine he might cause the tunnel in front of him to collapse, but nothing more. If he could really take out an entire Tower with just one shot, he would do it in an instant.

One act could have so many consequences and without a thought, he risks the whole operation and the lives of everyone for a bit of action and glory.

Like said, if this turns ugly, it would hardly harm anyone but himself, and that's old news to Jexx. And he can't seek glory if he doesn't even know what it is.

organ briefly considered executing Jexx on the spot for what would be considered treason during a time of war.

While I think the others things are at least partially justified, this thing seems way to harsh and over-reacting. Execution? How can it be treason if he's not fighting against you? For that matter, he still doesn't even consider himself part of the rebellion yet, that's why he always refers to them in the third person, instead of 'we'. I'm planning on changing that eventually, but for now, that's him. He'll never actually oppose the Rebellion unless they do something that irreparably damages his own agenda.

one that needs to be disciplined for his actions

If, when Jexx returns to the group in the morning, there is anything beyond verbal communication (that is, Jexx explaining himself at the demand of the group, and maybe a few probably well-deserved insults and shouts directed at Jexx), and some sort of real reprimand is issued to Jexx, he will react extreamly badly to that. He'd probably leave right then and there, once again utterly convinced he is better off on his own. Selfish and childish? Yes. But that's Jexx, and he didn't never chose to be like that.

A few closing notes. One is that what Jexx is doing isn't even going to be that dangerous or important, he's just going to map the tunnel network. He'll mark any other doors or hatchways he finds, but he probably won't actually go through them. I am expecting this to actually be an uneventful night (unless Ryudo has something else in mind, I hope he doesn't). On the subject of Jexx explaining himself, he will also probably have no choice but to finally spill out the exact circumstances that haunt his life. Even if the group still doesn't agree with him (in any case, i'm not really expecting them to), at least they should be able to understand him.
I want to say one or two more things, but I've forgotten what they are, rambled on far too long, and have to leave now anyway.


In other words, Azlan, don't make Morgan go too hard on Jexx. He never asked or chose to be the way he is, have the outlook and attitudes he has, or even his mechanical limbs, it was all unceremoniously forced upon him.

[Catffeinated]

Umm.. yah, one, his post was with the others, two, treason for leaving your post, three, Jexx seemed to be saying that we (the Rebelion) couldn't handle the situation, and four, have you ever heard of devices that can remotely read your hard drive? Or mental intrusion? Hmp, Jexx wouldn't last two seconds from that... neither would most of us.

OK, now to say what I was going to say in the first place:
Ryudo, what were the results of the search?

[Azlan]

In other words, Azlan, don't make Morgan go too hard on Jexx. He never asked or chose to be the way he is, have the outlook and attitudes he has, or even his mechanical limbs, it was all unceremoniously forced upon him.

Well, treason for leaving your post... Morgan considers operations like this in military terms, hence the choice of words.  It boils down to a few facts:

Jexx disregarded his 'teammates' and left them to fend for themselves
He has received no order to proceed alone
His actions will endanger everyone, regardless of whether he thinks so or not


Morgan's comment:

Morgan watched Jexx posture and insult the capabilities of himself, the whole team and the Rebellion all with a few selfish words.

By Jexx dissolving his association with the team, even for this one part of the operation, and potentially throwing them to the wolves, he has essentially made the statement that Jackson's choice of assembling this group and putting them together on this mission was wrong. 

By casting off backup and telling him to 'go stuff it', Jexx has made the blatant statement that he views Dorcan to have no worth and insults Morgan's mission and operational experience.  The only character who has shown any results in this operation has been Morgan and to blatantly ignore an order from what would apparently be the de facto mission specialist is quite an affront.



By abandoning them, Jexx does indeed endanger their lives.  If you do not see why, then I don't feel like wasting time explaining it.


Another point is that Jexx does not know what is down this shaft.  That very fact is indeed why he is investigating, however, your character is likely the least suited for this function.  You have built this character up, at least as I see it, completely around a combat function not a stealth or special missions function.  You are itching for combat action, but the whole design of this mission is based largely on stealth and deception.  The very requirements highly discourage combat.

The team is still not 100% sure that sudden elimination of the signal will not cause adverse effects up to and including death, so a fight in an area that at this point appears to be important to the control signal, could spell disaster if a stray shot destroys the conduits.  Okay, so a bad shot might just collapse the roof above you and bury just you... sure, that is true.  Consider what happens if there is a natural gas main above you... what about a vehicle fuel station?  What if the Brotherhood put a freaking nuclear reactor under the center of town and you cause a melt down?  It is a stretch, but possible.  Also, don't for one second even think "well Ryudo wouldn't do something that could kill the whole group..." or other thoughts like that.  This could very well be true, but that is another form of metagaming... that is definitely not even a consideration for the character... for him, this is real life. 


I hate berating people, but it needs to be said.  In the end, you have done what you did and as my father always said, "you've made your bed, now you can sleep in it."  I will be disappointed if Ryudo lets this one slip and you get a useful turn out of it, but that is up to him.

[techmaster-glitch]

I see your points, they are all pretty valid, except in my opinion, the military one. The only two "miltary" proffesionals are Morgan and Exo, everyone else isn't. That's why I don't expect this to go like a cut-and-dry, by-the-book military operation, I expect quite the opposite. And one other one, "fend for yourselves"? Are you saying you actually need Jexx to protect you? Huh, that's certainly a first... Everything else however, is rightfully sound.

But anyway, because these two points I cannont stress enough, if this were real and it were me, I would not be doing what Jexx is doing.
The other is that Jexx honestly doesn't know any better. That's all there is to it.
The second point is no excuse, it is only a reason as to why Jexx does what he does.

[Azlan]

No, Dorcan and Morgan do not need Jexx, probably the opposite is true, but you are missing the point...

Your two points mean nothing to me, they are no excuse and frankly a shield of the abuser.  So many times I have had to face down immature, selfish gamers who hide behind their character's alignment, personality, flaws, etc. as an excuse to play selfish, disruptive, abusive and annoying characters.  I do not wish to see that happen here. 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

tech, I think Az is not saying it -is- a military operation.

He's saying Morgan approaches it as a military operation, and reacts as if it were, because that's what Morgan is used to.

What -you- expect is irrelevant to what -Morgan- expects.



Oh, and the danger thing? What happens if Jexx runs into more trouble than he can deal with? A troop of 20 or so zealots, who capture him, set the entire tower on heightened alert, and call someone to send another company of zealots and enforcers to confirm the security on the shed?

No -way- Dorcan and Morgan can get out of that, and look - you (would have) just killed them both, and pretty much destroyed any hope of the -rest- of the team managing to accomplish anything.


I think Azlan has reason for concern. In fact, personally I'd like to sit down with Ryudo and see if I could come up with some truly evil response to force you back into line - but I don't expect Ryudo to accept, nor do I think he -needs- my help.

[Tapewolf]

This is not a debate I'm comfortable about, happy as I am to point out bugs or inconsistencies in the gameplay - probably because this an argument over a conscious decision rather than pointing out an oversight or potential problem.

That said, I would bear in mind Ryudo's words when Cat's character went out of whack:
"You need to work WITH the party, not against it.  I will not hesitate to get your character killed if you continue to do stuff counteractive to what the rest of the party is doing."

[techmaster-glitch]

*sigh* This should never have even been a problem in the first place. I was kind of hoping to find some way for Jexx to avoid Morgan, because I actually foresaw something like this happening. Morgan and Jexx are pretty much polar opposites of each other, but I didn't think they would grind this badly. Jexx is just mapping a freaking service crawlway tunnel, for crying out loud. What is the big flippin' deal?This isn't supposed to be counteractive, this is supposed to be productive.

A troop of 20 or so zealots

How the hell are you going to fit that many zealots into a tunnel not even completely high enough to stand in?

He's saying Morgan approaches it as a military operation, and reacts as if it were, because that's what Morgan is used to

But he's also trying to force his military diciplinces on others (Ok, just Jexx), which I have a major problem with.

A few other things, Jexx xould never have -had- a post if no one ever -told- him he had a post. No one ever told Jexx he had to stay somewhere. And even then, he certainly wouldn't listen to Morgan, because Morgan is in no position to be giving orders. He may have military background, but his authority is only what the group says he has, and the group hasn't said anything. If anyone gives orders, it's Exo, and only Exo. But that's only because Exo is a big freaking warbot who looks as if he can pull an anti-anything missle launcher out of his ass at the drop of a hat.

I have much more to say, but not enough memory or time to say it. And it doesn't matter anyway, because since everyone[ feels so strongly against this, I'll just
go and edit/remove the post.

EDIT: Hold the phone, I just remembered. Someone else is still waiting to jump into this RP, has been for several weeks, and he's waiting for a fray to do so. I was intending and counting on this mapping to go completely uneventful, that's why I've been so baffled at everyone's objection to it, but if Jexx does get into a fight, that will actually work in the new guy's favor.

So, I'll let you people decide. Edit and remove the friction, or keep going and get that other player in?

EDIT EDIT: i've been thinking, and I'm actually leaning toward going back and editing/removing my posts to fix this. This whole thing was supposed to be perfectly simple and normal, it was never supposed to end up the fiasco it is, and I really don't want to leave it on such a bad note.

[techmaster-glitch]

I have gone back and edited the post where Jexx 'ran off', metagaming be damned. Edits to original replies now needed.

[Ryudo Lee]

Sorry for the absence again... it was another long weekend which can be summed up in one word: drama.

Oh right, forgot about that other guy.  Um, the findings on the other guy will show that the weapon and armor are actually powered by the zealot, hence all the wires going into his body.

What powers them?  If I gots the ability to channel power, can I say... power them?

That would require you guys to surgically dissect a zealot... perhaps the good doctor could help in that regard.

Ryudo, what were the results of the search?

The address on the paper she wrote is correct.

Oh, and the danger thing? What happens if Jexx runs into more trouble than he can deal with? A troop of 20 or so zealots, who capture him, set the entire tower on heightened alert, and call someone to send another company of zealots and enforcers to confirm the security on the shed?

...

I think Azlan has reason for concern. In fact, personally I'd like to sit down with Ryudo and see if I could come up with some truly evil response to force you back into line - but I don't expect Ryudo to accept, nor do I think he -needs- my help.

See, llearch just keeps giving me material here.  And everyone should keep in mind that, from an RP standpoint, I come from a D&D background.  And as any player of D&D should know, if you go off on your own, you'd might as well leave behind a "goodbye cruel world" note.

A troop of 20 or so zealots

How the hell are you going to fit that many zealots into a tunnel not even completely high enough to stand in?

Well, not actual zealots, but a bunch of plasma turrets built into the wall would do the trick.  Not that I'm saying I'll actually do that... or will I?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Well, not actual zealots, but a bunch of plasma turrets built into the wall would do the trick.  Not that I'm saying I'll actually do that... or will I?

Or, if the scenery is heat sensitive, strung with mono-filament wire, or the like.

See, llearch just keeps giving me material here.  And everyone should keep in mind that, from an RP standpoint, I come from a D&D background.  And as any player of D&D should know, if you go off on your own, you'd might as well leave behind a "goodbye cruel world" note.

.... Ewps. Sorry, tech. I'll STFU now. :-/

[Arcalane]

But that's only because Exo is a big freaking warbot who looks as if he can pull an anti-anything missle launcher out of his ass at the drop of a hat.

He's not that big.

He also doesn't have an Ass of Holding. Or even a Donkey of Holding. He certainly couldn't pull the weapons out of nowhere, but myomer with hydraulic assistance will give him a mean punch - though it would only really be suitable for heavy duty work. The hydraulics are merely a backup, kind of like temporary exerting yourself to apply as much muscle power as possible. They lack the fine manipulation and dexterity/accuracy of the myomer control, and are best suited for small-scale demolition work.

@llearch;

No, no, keep going. I want to see how grisly Jexx's inevitable death will be.

[Azlan]

Or, if the scenery is heat sensitive, strung with mono-filament wire, or the like.

Ah yes, my first choice in fun.  Mono-filament cutwire, when you absolutely have to cut through even fraggin brick between you and your objective.

Of course there's always my favorite line against it: My shoe laces are mono-filament, but you don't see my chopping off any limbs with them...

[Ryudo Lee]

Well, not actual zealots, but a bunch of plasma turrets built into the wall would do the trick.  Not that I'm saying I'll actually do that... or will I?

Or, if the scenery is heat sensitive, strung with mono-filament wire, or the like.

See?  More and more material.

See, llearch just keeps giving me material here.  And everyone should keep in mind that, from an RP standpoint, I come from a D&D background.  And as any player of D&D should know, if you go off on your own, you'd might as well leave behind a "goodbye cruel world" note.

.... Ewps. Sorry, tech. I'll STFU now. :-/

I never said I didn't like getting material.

[Tapewolf]

Well T-G appears to have backtracked, as he said.  Are we going with that?  If so, Morgan's followups will need to be re-edited.  I've done mine, but I can revert back to 'Jexx ran away' if need be.

[Ryudo Lee]

Yes let's get everything straightened out according to tech's edits.

[techmaster-glitch]

.... Ewps. Sorry, tech. I'll STFU now. :-/

Yes llearch. That would be very nice. The main reason why I wanted Jexx to map the tunnels in the first place is that it's supposed to be empty, except for maybe some random engineer, whom Jexx could take care of quickly.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Are they? You never know what the paranoid delinquents of the Tower have set up.

If nothing else, there's likely to be cameras. I mean, you already know (meta-gaming, but bear with me) that they're paranoid enough to have someone watching the firewall 24/7 - not only someone watching, but someone watching who is bright enough to respond instantly.

That sort of thing isn't cheap, at all. People like that tend to want to write a program to watch the firewall, so they can go and do something useful. They're also, in their field, what I like to think of as highly creative - although, since I -am- one, I might be considered a tad biased. :-] Either that or their firewall designer "enlightened" a good big team - I'm thinking at -least- two per shift, three shifts, round the clock, so a bare minimum of 6, and more likely more than that - after all, manpower isn't a Brotherhood issue, and neither, apparently, is money. That sort of expertise has a -lot- of places it can go for cash.

Having said that, Jexx doesn't know that they're paranoid enough to spend that sort of cash. What he -does- know is that he's been hunting them for 2 years. On that basis, I'd say he'd -have- to realise they're going to be paranoid even when they -don't- know someone is out there.


After all, a safe way of adventuring is to presume there -is- someone there. If there isn't, a little extra caution never hurts. If there is, you're covered.

Am I right?

(please bear in mind, any comments I make here are my own, and not authoritative. i.e., I'm not laying down the law when I tell you you should do something, I'm making a suggestion, and you're free to tell me to fsck off. And I won't even take offence. :-] )

Of course there's always my favorite line against it: My shoe laces are mono-filament, but you don't see my chopping off any limbs with them...

Short for "monomolecular filament wire", theoretically. Unlike your shoelaces. :-P

I never said I didn't like getting material.

Noted. Techmaster might prefer I didn't, though. :-]

[Azlan]

Well T-G appears to have backtracked, as he said.  Are we going with that?  If so, Morgan's followups will need to be re-edited.  I've done mine, but I can revert back to 'Jexx ran away' if need be.

The follow up is edited, did I miss one?

[techmaster-glitch]

No, it's all right, llearch. What you say makes sense.

Though yes, I would very much prefer you stop slipping Ryudo dangerous ideas The Brotherhood is supposed to be cannon fodder to Jexx, not the the way around

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I'm sure Jexx thinks so.

I'm also sure that the Brotherhood feels almost precisely the opposite... ;-]

[techmaster-glitch]

The Brotherhood doesn't know he even exists, so how can they think that way? No Brotherhood member, and quite a few other people besides, have seen Jexx and lived

[Azlan]

Short for "monomolecular filament wire", theoretically. Unlike your shoelaces. :-P

I know this, but it was a funny line from a Shadowrun game book somewheres, probably the entry for the monosword.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The Brotherhood doesn't know he even exists, so how can they think that way? No Brotherhood member, and quite a few other people besides, have seen Jexx and lived

"Hey, someone in this area has been killing our members, since they're not coming back from searching, and their locator beacons are displaying they've stopped moving -here-"
"Ah, ignore it. It must be a glitch in the system."

... likely? Or not? They don't have to know who you are to know you're not helpful.

[techmaster-glitch]

Oh, they certainly know that a large number of their people are being killed off by some lone operative, or so they think, but they have absolutely no idea who:

   "I never imagined that it would be the Rebellion, not the Brotherhood, who would find me first." Jexx said. "The Brotherhood have no idea who I am; all they know, or think, is that there is some lone vigilante being a thorn in their side, because every single Brotherhood member who has ever gotten a clear look at me has not lived to tell anyone about it. I think the Brotherhood has occationally tried to follow me to find out who I am, but I've taken out any who tailed me." Jexx gave a slight chuckle. "I never thought I'd have to watch my back for Rebellion observers, too."

As said, they only don't know that Jexx exists (except for one priest, but he doesn't know that Jexx is still alive. And I'm saving that for later, don't want to spoil too much ), and thus, cannot connect him with the unexplained deaths of quite a few of their soldiery.
That and he's never stayed in any one town or city for long. He's lived his entire life on the run.

[Ryudo Lee]

Though yes, I would very much prefer you stop slipping Ryudo dangerous ideas

Too bad for you, because I encourage that kind of behaviour.

The Brotherhood is supposed to be cannon fodder to Jexx, not the the way around

You need to get this idea out of your head.  I didn't design this game around your character.  If they really wanted to flex some muscles, they could put Jexx out of commission in little time.  You've only been dealing with the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.  So I'd suggest that Jexx "realize" this fact, and deflate his head.

The Brotherhood doesn't know he even exists, so how can they think that way? No Brotherhood member, and quite a few other people besides, have seen Jexx and lived

I'd like to state that this is how Jexx THINKS, so don't take it for fact.  For all he knows, the Brotherhood could have been watching him for longer than the Rebellion has.  That's up to me to decide and you to find out in play.


Also, keep in mind that there are crates in the room.  Upon inspection they'll contain various objects like small generators or more cables or pipes.

[Tapewolf]

Also, keep in mind that there are crates in the room.  Upon inspection they'll contain various objects like small generators or more cables or pipes.

I've taken that as a hint and updated my post accordingly.

The follow up is edited, did I miss one?

No, it's fine now.  If it was already done when I mentioned it, I may have been seeing a cached page or something.

[techmaster-glitch]

The Brotherhood is supposed to be cannon fodder to Jexx, not the the way around

You need to get this idea out of your head.  I didn't design this game around your character.  If they really wanted to flex some muscles, they could put Jexx out of commission in little time.  You've only been dealing with the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.  So I'd suggest that Jexx "realize" this fact, and deflate his head.

Ok, lemme rephrase. Brotherhood zealots are cannon fodder, but they seem to always have been canon fodder regardless, even probably to the rest of the party, I imagine. Enforcers, not so much, elites, definately not, priests, right out. But zealots are pretty much mostly all that Jexx has dealt with.

The Brotherhood doesn't know he even exists, so how can they think that way? No Brotherhood member, and quite a few other people besides, have seen Jexx and lived

I'd like to state that this is how Jexx THINKS, so don't take it for fact.  For all he knows, the Brotherhood could have been watching him for longer than the Rebellion has.  That's up to me to decide and you to find out in play.

And that would be a problem. If even a single clear photograph of Jexx got to the wrong priest (the only one alive who knows him) signaling that Jexx is still alive, Jexx would have been dead almost right after, or worse.

[Ryudo Lee]

And that would be a problem. If even a single clear photograph of Jexx got to the wrong priest (the only one alive who knows him) signaling that Jexx is still alive, Jexx would have been dead almost right after, or worse.

That's not completely accurate.  Just because they haven't made a move against Jexx doesn't mean that they don't know Jexx is alive.  They could just be watching and waiting for the right moment.  But again, that's something to be found out in play.